Since Gasland will be available on February 28th, two days from now

[ejpoeta]

I thought I would write a post about it. They are considering that fracking here in NY. I live in WNY between Buffalo and Rochester. We live next to protected land, but that doesn't mean that we couldn't be affected by this. My husband and I saw it and he said after ten minutes of that movie there is no way he would do that here!! Not that we really can anyway, hopefully. Considering what they did in Colorado and other areas.

I am going to advocate anyone I know to watch this movie when it becomes available. Some of them are wingers though so I don't know if they would, but when you have oil and natural gas companies telling you this is completely safe and they aren't hurting the drinking water, yet they WON"T drink the water..... and they basically tell the people they've done this to tough luck. I mean, sure it sounds like a lot of money. The guy in the movie was offered $100k.... but look at the family with the ranch that they couldn't even sell if they wanted to now. The eyesores all over. You could say, you signed a contract so live with it.... but they were lied to! and the fact that the EPA won't even test anything or step in!! They can't because of the energy bill signed in 2005.

Anyway, I just wanted to remind everyone about the movie coming out on dvd on the 28th and encourage anyone who hasn't seen it to watch it.

[enough]

1. It's been available for a while. I've already seen it on DVD from Netflix.

Absolutely a must see, as you say.

[DCKit]

2. +2

It'll scare the pants off anyone with common sense.

[DeadEyeDyck]

9. K & R

Just learned about it last night

[ejpoeta]

20. i have netflix and it is not available through dvd there currently.

i checked when i had heard it was available there, but it wasn't. now i am online streaming only, but i only set that up like last month or so.

[Liberal In Texas]

23. Yes it is available on DVD. I got it from Netflix and watched it. It's not

available on Netflix streaming yet. Only maybe a tenth of the Netflix inventory is available to stream.

[ejpoeta]

24. no, i only just went to online only like last month or so....

i checked before that and it was not available, though some had said it was and then wasn't anymore. if it is available now, then i stand corrected. i have gotten a lot of different dates of availability while looking because i really wanted to rent it when it came out. I looked on amazon the other day and their date of availability was feb 28th, which was earlier than i had seen before....

[Orrex]

3. Available? I saw it on HBO about six months ago

I'd call it the scariest horror film I've seen in years, .


I'm surprised that he hasn't been suicided yet.

[TheWebHead]

4. if you watch it, keep in mind

natural gas is the only form of fuel that within at least the next 15 years can scale to meet our current and future energy needs besides coal. So if you are anti-nat gas, by definition, you are pro-coal.

[Rabblevox]

6. been awhile since I've heard a non-sequitur that bold....

but that is completely a non-starter. You've managed to pack three logical fallacies in to just over 30 words. In one respect, that's really quite impressive.

1: natural gas is far from the "only" fuel that can scale up. We can scale-up any technology that we have the will to.

2: Nothing says that future demands must follow the "J-curve"

3: if you are anti natural gas, by definition you are anti-natural gas. Nothing more, nothing less. And anti-fracking does not mean anti-natural gas, it means anti-fracking.

[Yuugal]

7. Nice try

But no way are you going to convince me to poison the water my kids need to drink so rich landowners can get richer. That gas belongs to all of us in the state but there are no plans to share any of the cash with those of us who will have to deal with destroyed roads, forests, open spaces, groundwater, not to mention the spills, accidents, and the 7-10 million gallons of fresh water irradiated and poisoned by fracking chemicals for each of the 40k wells they want to drill.

What will happen is what always happens with resource extraction: the rich will get richer and move somewhere else and everyone else will be left with the mess and the expense of water filtration, environmental cleanup, and infrastructure repair. The saddest part of it all is that the gas will only last a few years whereas those fresh water resources we destroy are irreplaceable and would be worth much more money over the long term than any short-sighted gas driller will generate.

The world is running out of fresh water and we have plenty of it here in NY. Water so clean it doesn't even need expensive processing. Yet we are going to throw it all away to make a short term buck for a few rich landowners.

I call bullshit on your claim that coal use will somehow dry up because we grab some gas short term.

[cpamomfromtexas]

11. Rich landowners? Land owning and mineral rights are two different things

They can tear up land without compensating owners. They only pay mineral owners royalties

[Yuugal]

14. The rich around here own their mineral rights

Otherwise the landowners associations would be fighting fracking instead of supporting it.

[Rabblevox]

17. ummm...whaaat???? I never said any of the things you are attributing to me....

believe me, I stick my foot in my mouth plenty on my own without fictitious help...

[Yuugal]

21. ummm what?

I wasn't even talking to you. Go piss on someone else.

[randr]

10. Not so webhead

Recent studies have indicated that coal burned in "clean" plants are less damaging to the planet. I am digging up the link to the report and will post it here asap.
American's are currently being subjected to the largest propaganda campaign in history. A glut of gas exists and the only thing stopping the Fracting Gas Industry from reaping massive profits is the development of alternative cost competitive wind and solar generation.
If you live any where close to a sacrifice zone, or have watched Josh Stone's "Gas Land", you are aware of the hidden costs and destructive forces of fracting to our Nation and will come to understand why the FGI is spending millions to convince Americans of their argument.

[randr]

12. Link as promised

http://www.eeb.cornell.edu/howarth/GHG%20emissions%20from%20Marcellus%20--%20November%202010.pdf

[Overseas]

15. As long as the flaming tap water isn't in my neighborhood, eh?

Because combining massive conservation projects, transferring subsidies from the very profitable big oil firms to solar, wind and other alternative energies, is just too dang complicated, eh?

[mwdem]

29. I guess you don't have any natural gas shales in your area.

I was all about it until I saw this movie, and then the Barnette Shale is under my home. The people representing the gas wells were not withcoming with any answers to my questions, even lying to me outright. Unfortunately, my neighborhood voted to go with drilling under our homes, with a well less than 1/2 of a mile from my home. If you sign to agree to letting them use your mineral rights, you'll get some (very little) money. If not, they say they will drill aroung your property. Who knows what they're doing? Also, it's a Canadian firm doing the drilling, so much for jobs here, locally! And I'm in Texas. Btw, I'm a 2-time cancer survivor, and the benzene amount from the well that I questioned was met with a blank stare...

[Rabblevox]

5. it's available online here...

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/_rRxq7qrCpk/

And it is indeed a must see film.

[ejpoeta]

18. thanks i did not know that.

[deminks]

8. K&R A definite must see.

:thumbsup:

[Overseas]

13. K&R. Really quite frightening that the natural gas "solution" is so ugly.

The softie commercials on TV make natural gas seem so benign.

[ejpoeta]

26. well of course.... the truth wouldn't be so appealing. that's why they lie to

people about the dangers when they want to lease the land. people ought to think about why they are willing to give you so much money to lease the land..... and is it really worth it when your water supply is poisoned and you get sick? or you can't sell your property??? just having electric lines running through our property affects it's value.... imagine having natural gas wells all over the place would do.

[WinkyDink]

16. I'm in PA. We are doomed. The Delaware Water Basin (hello, NYC water-drinkers!) is doomed.

[livetohike]

19. In PA where our newly elected Republican Governor has opened

the public lands to Marcellus drilling - nothing protected and the drillers won't be taxed! The GOP sheep up here in rural northcentral PA only see the money and blindly believe our GOP Congressperson, newly elected Tea Party Senator Toomey and the idiot Governor. It's all good :sarcasm:. They'll find out the hard way.

[Agony]

22. for additional perspective... a well for every 80 acres

1)Split Estate - available from bullfrog films http://www.splitestate.com /

This compelling Emmy Award winning documentary shows the dirty side of hydraulic fracturing and natural gas, an energy source the industry touts as a clean alternative to fossil fuels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96t_rHvQTkM <---a preview


2) All Fracked Up - http://www.allfrackedup.com /

From the "Filmmakers"
Jodi and I are not filmmakers. We are concerned citizens who are frightened that the natural beauty of NY and the pristine lakes and pure well waters could be irreversibly ruined by the process of hydro-fracking. Sadly, PA is beginning to allow hydro-fracking. As a result, they have had gaswell blowout in Penfield (if the Gulf blowout wasn't bad enough) and ruined water wells and property/home/farm values (banks require a good well in order to issue a mortgage)--just google Dimock PA + fracking.
We were jolted into harsh reality this January when a predatory gas corporation picked our beautiful bucolic town along Keuka Lake to inject aprox. 3/4 billion gallons of toxic brine into an abandoned gas well in Pulteney. The toxic brine was a result of the earth regurgitating back high pressure toxic fluids used in hydro-fracking operations in PA. They were going to inject the imported toxic brine under tremendous pressure into an abandoned gas well in Pulteney, only a 1/2 mile from pristine, pure Keuka Lake. A massive grass roots movement occurred on Super Bowl Sunday at our firehall with almost 500 people showing up on a cold frigid winter day. They said "no, we won't accept your toxic brine disposal well." The gas company rescinded their application. Hooray for Pulteney and Keuka Lake! THE MORAL OF THE STORY: The people always win when they show up in numbers and demand their rights as citizens of this great American experiment-DEMOCRACY.
So, Jodi and I resumed our old life of building ourselves an off-grid homestead and multi-vendor Pulteney Highlands Farm/Flea Market on Gallagher Road in Pulteney. We the people won! No deep injection well in our town, yet if hydro-fracking is allowed in NY it could easily destroy our well, our farm, our home value, Keuka Lake, and the wine and tourism industry. We took our money (almost $10,000) for building materials that we had set aside to build our multi-vendor farm market and with the help of my sister, Lorelei, we decided to make our first documentary to alert the residents of our beautiful state that hydro-fracking is an extreme technology used to get at extreme energy with potentially extreme consequences.
We hope you enjoy the movie and learn from it and MOST OF ALL GET ACTIVE IN THE RESISTANCE!!!

Sincerely Yours, Jeff + Jodi

3) Real People on the ground: http://marcellusprotest.org also http://www.gdacoalition.org/GDAC_ABOUT_US.html


KNOW YOUR ENEMY
4) the well financed industry perspective: http://www.energyindepth.org

5) the wonderful, smiley, happy, green people of the American Clean Skies Foundation http://www.cleanskies.org/about.html and their awesome documentary about the People of Shale Country! "http://www.shalecountry.com/content/about-shale-country

6) last but not least Chesapeake Energy themselves http://www.chk.com/Pages/default.aspx

Sorry if that seems overwhelming, it is, when the Marcellus Shale is underfoot and you are in the path of landscape scale industrial gas production. A well for every 80 acres.

Cheers,
Agony

OK I can't quit there...
My last statement above "A well for every 80 acres." can also perhaps better be described this way...

If you were to be "pooled" into a horizontal hydrofracking gas development you would never be more than ~3700 ft from 4 drill pads each with 8 wells on them. This is because wells are drilled radiating outwards from a central drill pad with each fracked well underlying approx 80 surface acres. One drill pad for every 640 acres. This may vary somewhat based on the underlying geology but describes the general idea. If 60% of the land in your area is leased to a gas company then the gas under your property can be "pooled"/extracted even if you do not agree to sign a lease.

In your ditch?

[ejpoeta]

25. thank you for posting this...

the map looks different than even the one he had on gasland.... this one clearly shows my whole area!! i would like to say i would be protected here being right next to state wildlife preserves and all, but we all know how 'safe' that would really be. I had a relative reply to my post about gasland that he has an old style one behind his house not from fracking, and asked about it as he isn't fond of michael moore. i told him this guy was approached to lease his property for natural gas and he was looking into it and ended up doing a documentary.

[Agony]

27. Can you say Utica shale!

You were not on the map because you were looking at a map of just the Marcellus shale. Look carefully at the map in my post and you will notice your area labeled "Utica" (stippled). The Utica shale play is part of the "stacked" plays in this area and is a couple of thousand feet below the Marcellus. Exciting info about it --->http://geology.com/articles/utica-shale/.

While not universally seen as viable, the Utica shale play gives us a window into the wonderful 3D chess game of power and wealth being played out under our feet. Are you starting to get a picture of just how awesome this is? ........ sorry my sarcasm pegged there...

landscape level industrial gas development, let that sink in for a minute.


Dr. Anthony Ingraffea
http://www.cee.cornell.edu/people/index.cfm?netid=ari1&showdetails=1 <----maybe read this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_05A3Rr4t0&feature=related <----then watch this

[ejpoeta]

28. we should be investing in solar and wind and other things i have seen

with algae and such..... not natural gas and coal and oil. uggh. thank you. and sometimes sarcasm is the only thing to keep a person from going completely mad over this..... feel so helpless sometimes when i listen to certain family members who have so thoroughly been brainwashed about so many things.

[PBS Poll-435]

30. One more Sarah Palin book signing and I am just going to lose it. nt