Could you give up your car within the next five years?

[LoZoccolo]

[ohheckyeah]

1. No. n/t

[tekisui]

2. Already gave it up this year.

[LoZoccolo]

Also

I did.

[salvorhardin]

3. Seeing as the car may well die in the next 5 years, I may well have to

Then I will die.

[Blue-Jay]

Are you saying that I can have your car?

Does it smell presentable on the inside?

[LoZoccolo]

7. If you can work out something with the guy I sold it too in 1999.

You're from Chicago, right? He lives in Little Village.

[AlabamaLibrul]

4. Not as the situation stands currently, no n/t

[Luciferous]

5. No, because I live in rural IL and do not have access to public transportation.

However, I rarely use my car.

[rzemanfl]

6. Sure, I could take that high speed rail Florida is getting-no, wait....

never mind.

[flvegan]

10. We could ride togeth...oh, yeah, about that...maybe not.

[LoZoccolo]

13. Oh, your handle means "Florida vegan".

I just noticed that.

For some reason it used to make me think of that Pearl Jam song that goes "one two three four five against one".

[redwitch]

44. huh.

I have been reading his username as five -again for how many years? I am so dumb. :-(

[MissB]

48. I read it as "flave-agan"

[redwitch]

50. At least you knew the second letter is an L.

In my defense I am long overdue for an eye exam. :-)

[WCGreen]

85. I thought he was one of those rappers with the funny names....

[flvegan]

91. I am!

[redwitch]

122. Don't even talk to me.

You are not the person I thought you were. I mean, I know you're a vegan. I know you live in Florida. But you will always be FiveAgain as far as I am concerned. This FLA-Vegan person is someone I do not know. Fiveagain is a much better rapper name anyway.

[flvegan]

125. You'd be surprised.

I still have good friends wondering what "gans" are and why I have five of them.

five-gan. fivegan.

For you, fiveagain it is!

[redwitch]

133. Thank you. I'm old. Change is too hard.

:hi:

[midnight armadillo]

121. I read it as Fahrvergnügen

which I recognize as ridiculous.

[flvegan]

126. Which I also am.

But you knew that.

[madinmaryland]

129. I used to think it was "five-glan"

:wtf:

[rzemanfl]

29. Well, we could take an imaginary ride, what the hell, if we're

going to do that, let's imagine we are riding on Rick Scott's private jet, I'll imagine I brought my wife and we joined the mile high club....and left the wet spot on Rick Scott's favorite seat. This is a great trip!

[Tesha]

67. Do *ALL* Americans think about this in a purely-binary fashion?

I.e., "It's high-speed rail or nothing!"?

Transportation should be a well-coordinated web
of a variety of different forms of transportation,
from walking to bicycling to scheduled buses to
streetcars and light rail to subways to trains,
both low and high-speed. Paratransit. Taxis.
Air travel. Rental cars and vans. Jitney buses.

And if the price of oil continues to rise ("If".
Right!), eventually it will become economically
infeasible for all of us to use our private cars
all of the time and when *THAT* happens, suddenly
it will become economically feasible for all of
these transportation choices to flourish, even
out in the boonies.

Tesha

[rzemanfl]

93. This IS a binary thing-governors who are tea bagging asswipes

and governors who are not. My post was about our teabagger asswipe governor-not about developing the best possible transportation system.

[elocs]

8. No. n/t

[midnight]

9. Sure if there were a high speed rail/ better transportation system...

[OhioChick]

11. No n/t

[Shagbark Hickory]

12. If I had room for a horse. nt

[northoftheborder]

14. Sorry, no. Bus only, here, and limited.

[femmocrat]

15. No, Nothing within walking distance here, except our mailbox.

I don't drive much though. Just to and from work and shopping on Saturdays.

[Brickbat]

16. Why would I want to?

[shanti]

33. perhaps

if gas became unaffordable to most people?

[Brickbat]

70. That probably won't affect me.

I like my car, I like driving, and I like getting to places that public transportation doesn't go to.

[shanti]

82. fair enough

:)

[williesgirl]

17. Not where I live - in the mountains. The nearest grocery store/pharmacy is 10 miles away.

However, my 12-yr old Ford might make that decision for me - has over 197,000 miles on it. No way can I afford another car, even used.

[OhioBlue]

18. no. I live in rural Ohio.

I couldn't get to work anywhere much less buy groceries or visit without a car...

[-..__...]

19. I couldn't give it up within the next 5 months, weeks, days or hours.

not that I'd want to, even if didn't need to... and I have easy access to public transportation.

[DeadEyeDyck]

73. as long as I could quit paying for it now

[madinmaryland]

130. Why not? If you have easy access to public transportation, then why?

Just curious.

[Myrina]

20. I tried to learn how to ride a bike a few years back for that purpose ...

... alas, an apparent undiagnosed balance issue made the bike riding close to impossible.

The funniest part of it was, though, that I always tip over to the left! No lie!! LOL!!

[Broken_Hero]

21. Nope,

unless the wife gets a company car.

[snacker]

22. Not here in Wisconsin...

Walker said "no" to high speed rail, and if his budget repair bill passes, Wisconsin will lose 46 million in Federal Grants to Public Transportation because the federal government requires transit workers have collective bargaining.

[Jmaxfie1]

23. No n/t.

[Iris]

24. Nope. n/t

[Thunderstruck]

25. Yes, I could easily give up my car. I only drive occasionally now as it is.

[glowing]

26. Not without reliable public transit... Which prick Scott doesn't even want to

Consider.... Does he own major stock in oil? Dick

[Ruby the Liberal]

27. Unfortunately, no. My office is 2.25 blocks from my house, so I walk to work

but there are no grocery stores in this town within 5 miles of me. That, and I am being moved to a regional position where I have to visit our other locations every week.

It was nice while it lasted the last few years. I averaged 10-15 miles a month, mostly for Doc Appts and Groceries.

[unkachuck]

28. in the warm months....

....yes, I can get around and shop on my bicycle....but in the cold months, it's gonna be difficult....I'm going to get very hungry and that will make me tense and unhappy....

[AndyTiedye]

30. There is No Public Transportation Here

We would need a horse.

I can get around on a bike, though the 2000' climb coming home makes bringing back any significant quantity of groceries (or anything else) out of the question.

[Drale]

31. I won't need my car anymore

starting next fall, when I start at UIC. Everything is within walking distance and if I want to go home I walk downtown to the train station and take Metra home.

[shanti]

32. yes

i could probably give it up now, i drive it so little, but i can afford it and like the convenience. here in sacramento, we have light rail and an acceptable transit system, so it's doable. if i lived rurally, i doubt it though.

[customerserviceguy]

34. No.

And the irony of it is, only about a half mile from my home, I pass under a passenger railroad tunnel, where the train on it eventually passes right NEXT to the building where I work, twenty-five miles away. I even feel the train rumble the floor under my feet when it passes by.

No stops at either location, I'm afraid.

[onehandle]

35. Not unless we move to a real city.

Which is our fondest desire, but we keep getting sidelined.

[MannyGoldstein]

36. Since nobody will stop the bankers from taking everything

from the middle class, I may have to.

[ChazII]

37. Another no. n/t

[fishwax]

38. I'll be moving to a new town/city in that time frame, so it depends on where I move to

[AsahinaKimi]

39. I have a long time ago

San Francisco is the one place you don't really need one. We have one of the best transit systems in the country.. except for the fact, the prices are still going up.. (meh)

And the occassional NOT IN SERVICE car..

[oldhippie]

40. NO. nt

nt

[lunasun]

41. We are actively trying to make sure we can

and doing pretty good so far use it less and less
Could if needed yes

[LadyHawkAZ]

42. I have a motorcycle

and you can have it when you pry my cold dead fingers from it.

[pscot]

43. That will depend

on whether or not I get my pony.

[csziggy]

45. How are you going to get feed and hay for your pony?

Not a snark, really. This is for those who think horsepower could replace cars.

I have horses, but I need a truck to get the feed for them. The hay guy needs a truck to bring the hay for them. Even though I have 60 acres, I cannot grow enough feed and hay here to last my four horses all year round. During the summer, they have plenty of grass, but it is not the type to produce quality hay. Even if I attempted to raise enough grain and hay here, I don't have the equipment to either use a tractor or the horses to till, fertilize, plant and reap the grain and hay.

That doesn't even factor in the lack of physical labor to do the work. I can't any longer, and probably could not have when I was young and stronger.

It just is not feasible in these days to do it.

[taught_me_patience]

46. Nope

Even if gas was over $10/gallon, I'd still drive. I just love the freedom.

[GSLevel9]

47. nope.

not a chance. My only hope is that VW brings the Polo to the US this year and I can finally have a Euro syle compact.

[cherokeeprogressive]

49. Nnnnnnnnnope.

[jp11]

51. I could, but I won't.

[FloridaJudy]

52. Already did two years ago

It broke down and I didn't have the money to fix or replace it. Wish I had one, though - the public transportation here sucks toad balls. It takes me at least five hours just to do the grocery shopping, and by the time I get home I'm exhausted. I eat a lot of pasta, not because it's cheap, but because it's light to carry a mile from the bus stop.

Cheap is not to be sneezed at either.

[devilgrrl]

53. Probably.

eom

[Petrushka]

54. Gave mine up two years ago. (eom)

:kick:

[ingac70]

55. 42 miles to work is a long damn walk. n/t

[Imagevision]

56. Why would anyone want to give up their car?

[upi402]

57. Various jobs, many miles apart

Some jobs require them. Otherwise, yes.

[devils chaplain]

58. Yes

right now it's more time/cost effective to have one, but I'd be fine.

[Incitatus]

59. That's a negative, ghost rider. nt

[salin]

60. could have, when lived in areas with decent public transit

now - very improbable.

Our infrastructure for alternatives is terrible. Not a surprise after 30 years of "no new taxes" and thus no/little public infrastructure investment.

[Rincewind]

61. No

[IrishEyes]

62. I've never owned a car

I ride the subway like everyone else in New York City. Only crazy and/or rich people own cars in New York City.

[Umbral]

63. I game up my car almost five years ago...

and, I managed to do it without turning into a snide asshole.

[sakabatou]

64. I haven't driven since Summer of '06

[Raine]

65. No, couldn't and wouldn't nt

[Manifestor_of_Light]

66. No, I'm 20 miles from the nearest grocery store.

I live in a little town. I have to go to the county seat of 20,000 people, and my choices are Wallyworld and Kroger.

[fittosurvive]

68. Of course not, Americans value their independence.

[taterguy]

78. What does independence have to do with car ownership?

[fittosurvive]

79. Dependence on someone else for a ride.

[taterguy]

81. So people who manage to get themselves places without a car or asking for a ride . . .

Must be un-American!

Thanks for clarifying.

[fittosurvive]

84. Not really, but Americans have always had a romantic view of the independence that cars offer.

In the early years of motoring, not all Americans were convinced that the new “devil wagons” were here to stay. But as people came to value the convenience of the car, and as they adapted it to their own needs, cars became a significant part of everyday life.

http://americanhistory.si.edu/onthemove/exhibition/exhibition_8_1.html

[taterguy]

86. So why can't people have mobility in America without cars?

Please base your answer on physical reality, not imaginary feelings.

[Taitertots]

94. Because there is no effective alternative

What effective alternative to cars is there?

[sofa king]

105. 50cc mopeds, in many states.

The dark secret is that most states are carved nine ways to Sunday by impassable railroads and highways, so that impoverished people have a difficult time leaving their neighborhoods. (This of course was a very intentional part of city planning, for example in Washington, DC., where Southeast and Anacostia are bisected by a railroad wall 30 feet high.)

A number of court cases have shown that unless a state is willing to spend billions on sidewalks and foot-bridges, some form of inexpensive alternative transportation must be provided to allow poor people (like me) to get around. Thus mopeds usually come with heavily relaxed license and insurance requirements (or, as in my state, none at all).

They're limited by regulations and physics to a very low speed, 25-35 mph, and aren't allowed on Interstates. But they're cheap and they usually get over 70 mpg.

For a year, I commuted 35 miles each way to a part-time job on a 50cc moped. It took an hour and a half and for a good part of the year I risked frostbite, in addition to being pushed off the road by angry drivers, wandering deer, and degrading road surfaces. Eventually the fear of each day's 3-hour commute crept into my very dreams, and I had to give up and join a carpool.

But it's possible. Poverty is a never-ending game of risk-taking, with fewer and fewer options until one day, your decision proves wrong and you die. Riding a moped is well within the safety envelope of someone with no health care and a starvation diet.

[Taitertots]

106. One word: Snow

In many states a moped is certainly a good idea. In many states it is just not reasonable advice.

[sofa king]

109. One of mine is pretty fun in the snow, actually.

I rode it through at least three blizzards last year, doing the sensible thing and staying off the roads for at least a day until they were mostly cleared. We're all already used to the idea of maintaining an 18-inch margin of safety on the side of the road (since that's all other drivers give you), so it's pretty easy to track a tire-rut for miles.

But yes, you are absolutely correct that trying to ride at any speed in the snow is dangerous to one's self and others. The riding I did when there was heavy snow on the roads was for fun, at running speed, and with my feet down. The guy across the street, on the other hand, put a buddy on the back for weight and tore ass around town like he had a snowmobile. You wouldn't believe it unless you saw it.

I think it's even possible to make an impromptu set of chains by simply running zip-ties around the tires and wheels. But the second you hit pavement they'd likely shear off. For awhile I played around with the idea of putting on some outrigger water skis, too, but it hasn't snowed enough this year for me to test it.

Others live lives of quiet desperation. I prefer to live mine strangely and loud.

[Taitertots]

110. That is not reasonable advice

It sounds like a fun weekend, but nothing that is suitable for widespread usage.

[sofa king]

112. Poor people don't have reasonable choices.

Don't get me wrong--I'd love to have a reasonable choice. But having to choose between equally bad options is something I do every day.

In this case, the benefits far outweigh the risks and the discomfort.

I should also add that for the past several months, my income has not allowed me to repair either of my broken mopeds, so I got to devote this winter to learning the "Truscott Trot," which is a brutal way of covering nearly four miles in an hour. Every five minutes I can save is five extra minutes of sleep, but it took me at least a month to work up to it.

That is an unreasonable choice. You want to take a risk? Be a pedestrian at six in the morning.

[Taitertots]

113. I'm poor too, but lack of reasonable choices doesn't mean you should select the most unreasonable

Riding a moped during the winter in the snow is certainly one of the most unreasonable things I have heard yet.

[sofa king]

114. Nope. Being homeless in winter is more unreasonable.

That is what I seek to avoid. Worse than death because it is death, unreasonably delayed.

[Taitertots]

119. Becoming critically injured without health care is more unreasonable

Walking, getting there slower is getting there alive.

[sofa king]

138. It's much more dangerous to walk.

You're being fooled by a trick of perspective, which is that you think that on foot you are safe because there's not much you can do to injure yourself. But that's not the problem.

In fact, you're more likely to die as a pedestrian per mile traveled. One out of ten of all vehicle fatalities isn't in a car at all--it's someone on foot being hit by a car (and fully 1 out of 5 of all pedestrian accidents are hit-and-run).

A simple thought experiment will show you that if you can move with traffic, even at a slower speed, you will be passed by far fewer drunk drivers, texting drivers, and idiots. A walker gets passed by hundreds of cars in a few miles, and a significant percentage of those cars are driven by impaired drivers. A moped gets passed by only dozens of cars over many miles. Both moped riders and walkers have the exact same problem, which is that while it's difficult to kill one's self, it's easy for a car to kill you. So the number of cars one must deal with is the death-dealing factor.

This can be seen in the figures, too: pedestrian deaths continue to rise while motorcycle fatalities fall (and motorcycles are much more dangerous than mopeds), even though the number of both pedestrians and motorcyclists is increasing.

[Taitertots]

145. You have been mislead with statistics

Pedestrian vehicle accidents account for only 11 percent of vehicular fatalities and 2 percent of accidents. There may be more accidents per mile, but a car easily goes 10 times farther in a given period of time. So on any given day you are significantly more likely to die in a car accident than a pedestrian accident.

Pedestrian death are dropping according to YOUR data. Motorcycle accidents have DOUBLED! That is based on the numbers that YOU just supplied. You didn't even read the chart that you just posted.

The number of cars is not the "death-dealing factor". Also important is the proximity to the other vehicles, your speed, their speed, visablity....

The data you are using is misleading. If you exclude the elderly and the under 16 those numbers drop to near zero for pedestrian accidents.

[taterguy]

107. What's effective for me might not be effective for you

I was responding to a post that said cars were a necessity for mobility and independence.

That certainly wasn't the case for me the decade I lived happily without a car.

[Taitertots]

108. You asked...

"So why can't people have mobility in America without cars?"
The answer is that for the vast majority of people there is no effective alternative. Your situation doesn't represent anything but a tiny fraction of a percent of the American experience. Unless you think we should all live exactly like you (impossible) than there is no effective alternative.

[taterguy]

115. If you choose to believe there aren't alternatives then there won't be alternatives

Free your mind and transportation options will follow.

[Taitertots]

118. "Please base your answer on physical reality, not imaginary feelings. "n/t

[fittosurvive]

117. I have independent mobility with my feet, but if I want to head off somewhere with my family

(dog included), a 50 cc moped ain't gonna do it.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

141. I can go wherever whenever with whomever however I want to dress with whatever items I please

I would have to say that's quite a bit of Independence.

Public transportation has all those rules and schedules and you feel like a piece of cattle being transported.

[Vinca]

69. Not unless I buy a horse. I live in the sticks and there's no bus service.

[SmileyRose]

71. Only if I become unemployed and homeless.

[annabanana]

75. Well, then you'd need it to LIVE IN. . . .n/t

[krispos42]

72. A complex question

Currently... yeah, reluctantly, if I had to.

I could in theory walk the four miles to the train station, take the train to Greenwich, then walk the quarter-mile or so to work. But it's cheaper to drive; round trip train fare is like over $20 and it's less than $10 in gas.

If my boss' business expands in the next couple of months (weeks?) she might well be leaving her current digs and moving to the same town where I am. She could be as little as a half-mile away!

Or maybe things will go down the shitter and I'll have to work someplace else and commute.

Shopping would be an issue; the nearest supermarket is almost 3 miles away. Trader Joe's is maybe a mile and a half away, though.

I could probably borrow the parent's car if I needed to go on a road trip... but that would leave one of my parents without. Now, Dad is retired so he doesn't go out much anymore. It's why he had the SUV; even at 15mpg he burns barely an gas per week.

[Sisaruus]

74. Nope

My daily commute is 106 miles round trip with no workable public transportation network to get me there. But I'm only 6 1/2 years to retirement so ask me again in 2018.

[myrna minx]

76. I haven't owned a car since 1991, so yes.

[lumberjack_jeff]

77. Only if I have to.

The absence of alternatives defines "could".

[philly_bob]

80. Planning to. Got good bus service, free for retirees. Also driving skill declining.

But makes me sad, all those impulsive expeditions and roadside meals, radio on...

[WinkyDink]

83. No. Why do you ask?

[InvisibleTouch]

87. If I knew that I absolutely HAD to...

...then yes, I could probably arrange my life so that I could. But it would be extraordinarily difficult.

[Ilsa]

88. Only if city-to-city high speed rail is built here in Texas. nt

[Iggo]

89. What car?

[tpsbmam]

90. Nope -- too rural. nt

[jillan]

92. Nope - public transportation sucks where I live. And you can be certain that Brewer isn't going to

do anything to improve it.

[Liberal_in_LA]

95. not while I work and live in Los Angeles

[xmas74]

96. As of this time

I do not have one. I had to pay some bills. I have decent walking shoes and the kid has a bike.

[Taitertots]

97. What is going to change during that period?

As it stands I have no intention of giving up my car.

I could switch to my motorcycle, but that doesn't work very well in the snow, or when you have people or things that need to come with you.

[LoZoccolo]

101. Nothing in particular, it's just a long period of time in which to accomplish the goal.

I gave up my car in 1999. I have occasionally driven since then, but haven't for the last few years. I moved into an area where a car is not needed and even somewhat of a burden.

I think everybody should at least consider doing so as automobiles contribute to so many problems, from exhaust to the breakdown of community.

[Taitertots]

104. If nothing changes, absolutely not

Keep in mind that the vast majority of people live in areas where not having a car is a massive burden.

In that long period of time are accommodations going to be made for the vast majority of people who depend on cars? I've considered it, but until a reasonable alternative is offered it is not going to happen.

Am I supposed to ride with my aging father on the handle bars of my bike when he needs treatment?

[sarcasmo]

98. I could but don't think the wife could deal with taking taxis.

Living in the burbs with no transportation system to speak of and a wife with a Disability.

[Maru Kitteh]

99. Sure - if you buy me a helicopter. I provide healthcare in rural communities.

And I don't have anyplace to keep a horse.

[PufPuf23]

100. Only out of illness.

I live very rural on a National Forest inholding.

There is no cellular service nor broadband except satelite. I cannot get mail nor supplies without wheels.

There is a INS clinic open during the week but the nearest ER room and hospital is 85 miles of a memorable drive unless memorized to the point of evolution from the pre-European use of local routes. The memorable drive is in deep river canyons through National Forest and Reservation and then over two mountain passes, one has a ski area to reach a stoplight.

Severe illness and capitulating to doctors in a corporate vice grip is the only situation that would move me urban. My tendency is to lay low and die by the River or a tree or at home, going for quality over quantity.

[ileus]

102. No I have a job...

[blaze]

103. If I had to, yes

But my 10 minute commute to work would become a one hour commute. So 20 minutes each day would become two hours each day.

Grocery shopping... no options there really. At 56, I could still ride my bicycle... but I would hate to be 100% dependent upon it.

[babsbunny]

111. yes!

I could do it!

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

116. I would rather be dead

I couldn't have a quality of life worth living without a car,

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Habibi]

123. I would love to

if I had a way to do the shopping and schlepping without one.

[X_Digger]

124. No.

I've never lived in a place where having a car was optional, and I've lived in Miami, Austin, Norfolk, Roanoke, and Tampa.

[Withywindle]

127. I haven't had a car in 19 years, and I don't want one now.

That's because I live in a really big city that was mostly built in the 19th and early 20th centuries, before cars existed, let alone became the norm. So most of the streets within a 5-mile-radius in all directions from the downtown area are pedestrian friendly and have good transit. I grew up in a tiny rural town, and I knew the isolated car-dependent culture as a child....and as an adult, I don't want it. At all. Ever again.

If someone offered me a car for free right now...I' be tempted for a moment and then turn it down, because the insurance, gas, maintenance, licenses, parking, etc. are way more money than I have, no matter how free the car is.

[browntyphoon]

128. No

Nope, I live 20+ miles from work on shifts.

[Lugnut]

131. No.

I'm a disabled senior and I'd be dead in the water without my car. Public transportation is minimal because I'm in a rural area. Cab service is outrageously expensive since I'm off the beaten path. I must have a car.

[Le Taz Hot]

132. No.

I'm the primary care giver for my 89-year-old Great Aunt which means I'm her primary mode of transportation. She can't ride the bus anymore and Handi-Ride is too unreliable.

[GTurck]

134. Would truly love to...

but we live in the country and have no other way to get our groceries or go to doctors' appointments, etc. Right now I would opt for an even better fuel efficient car than we currently now have (2003 Mitsu Galant ES). Would even love to have the Volt or Leaf but being retired and almost at poverty level that is not possible.
I grew up in Chicago with excellent public transportation but in the 60's only 3 groups could "afford" to live there:the wealthy, the poor, and those ethnic families who bought homes on the same block. We lived in the suburbs and for the most part public transportation was never an option; even to get to a train to go into the city required driving to the nearest train station. We have to re-think everything about how to live decently, safely and more compactly.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

135. And your point is?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

136. I did it for ten years

and if necessary, I could do so again, just by moving to another part of town.

It's just a matter of living in the right neighborhood.

[greymattermom]

137. live in Kansas City

so not likely, but I may retire to a more urban area, then maybe. Grocery shopping would be a problem though. I could manage with one instead of two cars. Right now I'm making payments on 3 cars and own 2 others...

[IDemo]

139. 56,000 miles on my '93 pickup

Compared to most, I already gave up driving years ago.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

140. Doesn't matter because I wouldn't give it up voluntarily anyways. I like having a car.

I can go wherever whenever with whomever I want however I want to dress with whatever items I please.
Now that's a mouthful!

[Lucky Luciano]

142. Gave it up 15 months ago, but I live in Manhattan.

The parking was $400 per month and the insurance $2,500 per year. I drove about 7,500 miles per year mostly for weekend getaways. It was silly to keep a car. I now rent a car for weekends when I need a car and spend less...though I do miss having the car because I liked to get out of the city very spontaneously - a day run to New Paltz was always so refreshing and I did not do that last summer...maybe I should get a car again, but that will have to wait until next year.

[hunter]

143. Like people are going to have a choice...

$10 a gallon gasoline is going to hit the USA hard. It won't be that we can't afford gasoline, it'll be that we have no jobs, or that the jobs we have do not pay enough to afford a car.

We'll probably see a massive migration to our cities as non-farming low income folks get hungry and restless.

Small towns will only be viable if they have good public transportation with frequent connections to larger cities.

[Ikonoklast]

144. No. there are no real alternatives to get to work.

By that I mean none, zero.

Walking or biking would be suicide, even *if* it was allowed on some portions of the right-of-way.