So now that democracy is breaking out all over the Middle East,

[tavalon]

how about we talk about a constitutional convention?

[el_bryanto]

1. to rewrite the American Constitution?

That's a pretty big step.

Bryant

[piratefish08]

4. Rewrite it? Shit, it would be nice if DC even recognized that we currently HAVE one.

[tavalon]

6. Sure

[tavalon]

5. Sure it's a big step, but

the government as it stands is not working. They've allied themselves with big business and therefore the rest of us are being destroyed. Though we've little hope of accomplishing it bloodlessly, we need to stop this unholy alliance and all of the ways we've tried so far haven't worked. A constitutional convention is the only thing I can think of that might accomplish a reset.

[ladjf]

8. No form of Government can work if it allows theives to take over.

[el_bryanto]

13. How will you keep big business from participating in the

Constitutional Convention?

Bryant

[tavalon]

20. I really don't know

but it would be imperative that that happen.

[el_bryanto]

22. I suppose we will find out.

Hope isn't a plan, but this plan sounds like a "Mice voted to bell the cat" plan. So I guess I hope you are wrong about how bad things are getting out there.

Bryant

[SDuderstadt]

31. We have little hope of accomplishing it bloodlessly?

How is that different from Sharon Angle's "Second Amendment remedies"?

[tavalon]

36. I didn't phrase that well

It was a lament. I know that change is coming to the US and I'm hoping it can be accomplished without violence.

[SDuderstadt]

38. You do realize that we don't have a right...

to violently overthrow the U.S. government, right?

If, on the other hand, you're talking about peaceful change being met by government violence, I would certainly hope that could be avoided, even as unlikely as it is.

[tavalon]

42. The second part of what you said is what I meant.

[jaxx]

2. To do what?

Undermine this country more than the agitators already are trying to do? Keep in mind, the Middle East wants to be like the USA. The small group who are anti everything are going to be unhappy....and so it goes.

[tavalon]

9. So you think things are fine?

Citizens United doesn't concern you? Democrats who sound more like Republicans than the Republicans do? Unemployment skyrocketing and the only ones getting richer are the elite? People starving and the public safety net being shredded?

I'm not a lonely agitator. Trust me on this one. Or don't. But ignoring what's going on right in front of you does no one, especially you, any good.

[el_bryanto]

16. Weak. It is entirely possible to believe that there is a lot of work to do to fix our country

while also believe that the tools are in place to allow us to do so without a constitutional convention. To come back "So things are fine" or "so you want to do nothing" is just weak.

But common I've noticed.

Bryant

[SDuderstadt]

32. Couldn't agree more...

EB.

[jaxx]

17. Citizens United will have to be handled in the legislature.

Only a few are using the Dems sound more like pubs to further their angst. Unemployment is slowly coming down. I ignore nothing, but I also don't run with the idea that nothing will ever get better and the sky is falling. To want to rewrite the Constitution...why?

[tavalon]

19. Unemployment numbers are coming down because of a neat accounting

trick where you no longer count those who've given up looking for work.

Unemployment is not coming down. Part time employment with no benefits is up. Outsourcing continues unabated but here at home, it's getting worse. We're getting tinder dry here and it would be a better thing to try to change things before a match gets lit.

[jaxx]

24. People I know are getting jobs.

Not all of them, but several. Mfg. places are hiring. Outsourcing started in the 80s with Reagan, it went crazy with Bush43. It needs to be controlled with tariffs on foreign made, and US owned, goods brought in here to sell at US prices.

I understand the concerns, we all have them. But to allude to the idea that all is lost is wrong because there have been good strides forward. Those need to be recognized too.

[tavalon]

41. People I know aren't

My ex husband just lost his benefits. But at least he'll now be off the unemployment lists. It's going to make the numbers look better.

Anecdotes, no matter how good or bad, don't mean a hill of beans, really.

[Horse with no Name]

43. You are pretty arrogant

The Middle East does NOT want to be like the US.
That is pure propaganda.

[slackmaster]

3. You want to force President Obama to resign, and have the military take over the country?

:crazy:

[Edweird]

7. They (Egypt) are currently a military dictatorship.

[tavalon]

11. Military controlled

Not necessarily a dictatorship. Were they eventually land is yet to be seen.

[Edweird]

14. It absolutely does remain to be seen. Which is why holding them up as a template is premature.

Their parliament is dissolved and constitution is suspended. I hardly call that 'democracy'.

[tavalon]

21. Okay, a little premature

Iran has started demonstrations today, again. We know what happened in Tunisia. All of the leaders in that area are certainly nervous to say the least.

[WatsonT]

35. Haven't you already labeled them a democracy?

[Mz Pip]

10. What would you insisit be changed?

We have elections here and sometimes we don't like the outcome of the elections. Can't say I was thrilled that so many teabaggers went to Congress but people did vote for them. The teabaggers got out the vote; people who might have made a difference in that outcome stayed home.

The world is run by people who show up. If we stay home, we lose.

[tavalon]

15. The list is long. In no particular order or preference:

Voter verified paper ballots.
Public funding of elections with no opting out.
Reinstating the fairness doctrine and including our new technology in that.
Term limits.
National health care.
Progressive taxation and no loopholes for corporations.
No more lobbying allowed.
Military spending limited to defense only - in other words, no more foreign wars for this dying empire.
Limiting and defining corporate power just as we have with religious power.
Parliamentary multi-party system and preference voting.


I wrote this in under 10 minutes. I know that if I hadn't just worked for 12 hours and chose to spend more than 10 minutes, I would have a list 10 times as long.

[jaxx]

23. Interesting.

Voter verified paper ballots... on this I agree
Public funding of elections with no opting out... I don't want to support pubs or teabaggers
Reinstating the fairness doctrine and including our new technology in that... could happen
Term limits... disagree, some experienced people are needed to offset the nuts
National health care... does anyone not want that?
Progressive taxation and no loopholes for corporations... ok with me
No more lobbying allowed... freedom of speech, but go after the reps who vote with the money
Military spending limited to defense only - in other words, no more foreign wars for this dying empire... Utopian. There may be a time when we need to protect ourselves and war will come
Limiting and defining corporate power just as we have with religious power... at the same time corporations provide jobs and we need jobs
Parliamentary multi-party system and preference voting... so we can be like Iraq with multi-factions and never get anything done?

[tavalon]

25. I'm heading for bed now, but thanks for actually going through these things with me

It shows respect, not necessarily agreement, but respect. Thank you.

[jaxx]

26. You're welcome. Sleep well.

[SDuderstadt]

33. We already have "term limits"...

it's called an "election".

[tavalon]

37. We lack transparent elections so I wouldn't be so sure about that

[SDuderstadt]

39. So, how did Ted Kennedy keep getting...

re-elected?

[tavalon]

40. Chappaquiddick

A lion he was, but a neutered lion.

[niyad]

12. apparently you do not remember the calls for "con-con" years ago.

the reichwingnuts wanted a constitutional convention to rewrite the constitution in THEIR image. is that what you want?

this is a link for their most recent effort
http://www.callaconvention.org/

[tavalon]

18. That isn't right wing, actually

and neither is it left wing. I'm aware of that effort and it's surprisingly bipartisan or tripartisan if you want to include the teabaggers.

[niyad]

30. the teabaggers were not around for the call for con-con years ago. you clearly do not remember what

the reichwingnuts were talking about doing to the constitution, and you clearly are not listening to what they are saying these days, or you would not suggest such a thing.

on the other hand, I don't know why they would bother with the legalities of a con-con. they are pretty much doing whatever the hell they want now, with the help of spineless dems.

[AndyTiedye]

27. We Really Don't Want to Go There

The wingnuts would hijack the process, and they control most of the state legislatures too.

We would end up becoming the Christian Republic of Jesusland.

Our Constitution is just fine. It is all the wingnut justices and judges that are ignoring it that are the problem.

[Mz Pip]

29. That's my concern

or it would end up happening everytime we had all three branches of government controlled by the same party. back and forth, back and forth to the point where it would just be a big mess.

I would settle for an informed electorate but that would be pretty hard to legislate.

[sufrommich]

28. I'm happy with the constitution we've got,thanks. nt

[WatsonT]

34. All over the middle east?

Where exactly?


Egypt no longer has Mubarak in charge. Which is nice, but not the same as being a democracy.