Where is our Tahrir Square? Where are the people willing to spend weeks stopping business as usual?

[scarletwoman]

An afternoon's march is not going to do it, I don't care how many people turn out.

Until there are enough citizens willing to put their entire lives on hold and do NOTHING but stand together for however many days, weeks, months, years it takes to make it impossible for the System to operate, no change is possible.

The current System can easily shrug off any one day march by however many people who turn out on the streets. It can no doubt easily shrug off even several days of the same. The PTB can easily outwait us, because they know for certain that eventually we'll go back to our "normal" lives, because the truth is, hardly anyone is actually willing to completely throw off their traces.

Be honest with yourselves, are you really willing to leave your homes, your jobs, your comforts, your personal conceptions of security and stability for a completely open-ended amount of time?

If not, then don't expect any change to happen from the occasional one-off march and rally. Really, in the face of what the Egyptian people have done, it's just embarrassing.

sw

[muntrv]

1. Doncha know? There are more important things like American Idol

and Jersey Shore!:sarcasm:

[defendandprotect]

24. -- and football games -- !!!

[EnviroBat]

43. The all-mighty Bud Light commands that I continue to drink and consume.

I couldn't possibly join in a national protest. I must work and buy more Bud Light. Everything we need in life is brought to us by the all-powerful, all-knowing, Bud Light. All praise be to Bud Light!!!

[RandomThoughts]

2. I already did that almost a decade ago.

Been in a craptastic situation since then.

People should not be smeared for defending due process. How can due process systems improve if they are subverted by government or ignored and not used as they are suppose to be.

[Historic NY]

Your really kidding.....give up comfort.

[scarletwoman]

8. Yeah, I'm really radical -- thinking that people might have to give up comfort in order

to free themselves.

[Historic NY]

31. Americans take at lot for granted.

[defendandprotect]

3. Think we really need to look at this event to try to help us assess

where we are at this stage --

Were 50% of Egyptians living in poverty?

Do we think we aren't being ruled by an "iron fist" ?

Lots of questions to be asked --

[RKP5637]

17. With ever increasing technology I think we're being ruled more with an

iron fist because it extends more and more down to an individual level, person by person.

I often wonder just how monitored most people realize we are today. I've been noticing more and more cameras, for example, going up everyplace here. I just notice them because I look for them, just out of curiosity ... but I never hear much on the news about it, etc., etc. I've pointed them out to people before at many intersections, for example, and along the road and they they haven't even noticed them. And this is just one example of many. And weaponry today is so sophisticated.

I could go on and on, I'll stop here.

[defendandprotect]

22. Agree --

My husband just mentioned last night that he got a ticket for going thru a red light --

and it connected him to a VIDEO of him doing just that!

That's very HIGH police surveillance --

But who's watching the real crooks -- they're totally protected from accountability!!

And we have to pick up the bill!!


and agree with you -- there's much, much more!!


:(

[leftstreet]

4. Too many people are still identifying with the Ruling Class

Too many people still believe in the myth of the Middle Class

I'm not judging them, it's just how it is

It won't be until the myth of social mobility meets the reality of poverty for a significant number of us peasants.

:shrug:

[scarletwoman]

18. Exactly! Well said.

It won't be until the myth of social mobility meets the reality of poverty for a significant number of us peasants.

The problem is, fear rules us peasants -- even when we are fully aware that the myth is a lie, we fear losing what little we have if we really were to engage in full out revolt.

Thank you for your post.

sw

[RKP5637]

19. You know, I mention that to people sometimes and I get a blank stare. We have been

soooo well trained to believe the myth of the perpetual middle class that will go on forever and forever. I think social mobility meeting the reality of poverty is tightening up, but many people still don't get it, it's out of sight out of mind to them and someone else's problem. And R's would say, well, that is their fault. As you say, "Too many people are still identifying with the Ruling Class."

[defendandprotect]

25. Lots of people still think capitalism has something to do with democracy -- !!

And/or freedom -- !!!


:rofl:

[Smashcut]

21. This is exactly correct.

"It won't be until the myth of social mobility meets the reality of poverty for a significant number of us peasants."

And when that happens, I doubt things will stay as (relatively) nonviolent as they did in Egypt.

[H2O Man]

5. Good question.

I think it can be taken a couple steps further. Martin Luther King noted that people needed to be willing to go to jail. Malcolm noted that one also needed to be willing to be sent to the emergency room and/or the cemetery.

I believe that is the commitment required today.

[scarletwoman]

15. And how many are willing to make such a commitment?

I ask this of myself no less than anybody else, btw -- I'm in no way only putting this on other people.

What you've said IS "the commitment required today" -- but who wants to make it? I have to admit that at this particular point, I can't honestly say that I would be.

I'm 61 years old, and I live very modestly -- in a 640 sq. ft. cabin with no plumbing, 100 miles from the nearest big metropolitan area. I have a wage-paying job that I mostly like, that allows me to use a great number of creative skills, and provides me with modest health care benefits.

Am I willing to throw all that off in order to participate in some vaguely-defined revolutionary activism? Who will take care of my two dogs? (I live alone)

It honestly bugs the hell out of me. My two sons are grown and long gone off on their own. I have no partner for back-up. I also feel like in some ways I already did my bit in the 60s -- demonstrating in support of Civil Rights, marching against the Vietman War, tuning in, turning on, dropping out.

At the same time, I am increasingly appalled at what's going on in my country. It's increasingly, unbearably painful to witness the triumph of predatory capitalism and all its attendant ills -- environmental degradation, societal degradation, corruption and criminality.

But am I willing to lock up my house, leave my job, find someone to take care of my dogs, so I can occupy Washington D.C. for how ever many months it may take to wring some concessions from the Owner Class?

Right now, to my sorrow and shame, I honestly can't answer that.

sw

[H2O Man]

39. Good answer.

I think you speak for all of us. Or most all of us.

If many people were willing to make the sacrifices which run those risks -- jail, the ER, or the cemetery -- things would already be very different than they are. But we are human, and that involves not only appreciating what Good we do have, but also means avoiding jail, the ER, and cemetery by nature. What is required is something that goes way beyond normal human nature, and questioning if one has that level of commitment -- and even doubting one's self -- is also part of being human.

It's a position where most all of us find ourselves: somewhere between the status of "coward" and "hero," in a sense (though certainly not a bad sense). Thus, we are in a position to see that the energies we know as crises consume the coward, yet serve as the fuel the hero uses to achieve his/her goal. We shy away from purposely creating such a crisis in not only our own life, but the lives of all those around us who matter the most -- our family, our friends, and yes, our family members some call "pets."

We do have an obligation, both to ourselves and that circle of family & friends, not to be a mindless moth, drawn to a meaningless injury or death at any and every candle's flame. More, those from our generation -- and you and I are rooted in the same experiences -- know that while some of the advances made on the individual level in the 1960s and early '70s involved "fun," the vast majority of meaningful change on the societal level involved unearned suffering. Just one example, in case any younger DUers might read this, would be in the Civil Rights movement: films of King show an inspired man of power; yet that moral force came by way of those men and women who were willing to suffer the indignities and pain of joining with King, going to marches, being savagely beaten by thugs (many in uniform), going to jail, and even dying for the Cause. The names of those individuals were overlooked then, and are forgotten today -- at least by most -- yet they created the true changes that benefit most everyone today.

I ramble on and on. But, as you no doubt realize, I struggle with the exact same things that you so accurately described in your post. Just as I have struggled with those things every day that I've gone to some of the more tense public meetings, etc, where there are risks involved. This being human is a strange adventure, is it not?

[scarletwoman]

65. Thank you so much for your thoughtful response.

I can't help but notice that my life has gotten so much smaller than what I had once intended it to be. I once was filled with ambition to make a lasting mark in some way, now I struggle with the ice dams on the roof of my house and the leaking ceiling.

Even so, my one constant commitment is to live as a true human being. How to bring that to bear on the larger world is the question I feel I must answer before my time in this world is over.

sw

[Citizen Worker]

68. "...even dying for the cause." On June 21, 1964 James Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner

were lynched in Philadelphia, MS by members of the KKK and White Citizen's Council. Philadelphia, MS would later be the city where candidate Ronald Reagan gave a speech on states rights.

There were many others who gave their freedom and some their lives in the ongoing battle for civil rights. Some of us will have to make similar sacrifices to make change.

[Justina For Justice]

41. A Real Revolution Needs All Our Skills and Resources, Not Just Our Bodies.

A real revolution is not carried out only by those who personnally "man the baracades" by camping for eighteen days in a "liberation Square".

It also involves the hundreds of thousands of others who, due to age, infirmity or other limiting conditions, cannot physically "man the barracades", but can contribute their ideas, skills and experience to support the demonstrators.

Without stepping outside your door or leaving your dogs, you can write letters to your local newspapers, explaining to your fellow citizens why you support totally transforming our economic system to one that values human beings over private profits.

You can teach the young people, using your own personal history, about the freedom movements in which you participated as a youth, to discuss what worked and what failed to work. You may have the skills to make tents to provide shelter to demonstrators, to send food and water to them, to contribute to paying the costs of photocopying leaflets, making banners, even defraying legal costs.

A revolution is a community in motion, and like other communities, there are many jobs to be done and contributions to be made. It is not an "either-or" choice of either manning the barracades or sitting at home, alone and isolated.

You write:

I also feel like in some ways I already did my bit in the 60s --
demonstrating in support of Civil Rights, marching against the Vietman War, tuning in, turning on, dropping out.

At the same time, I am increasingly appalled at what's going on in my country. It's increasingly,unbearably painful to witness the triumph of predatory capitalism and all its attendant ills -- environmental degradation, societal degradation, corruption and criminality.

But am I willing to lock up my house, leave my job, find someone to take care of my dogs, so I can occupy Washington D.C. for how ever many months it may take to wring some concessions from the Owner Class?

In Egypt, I am sure that for every individual who marched in Liberation Square, there was a hundred, even a thousand others, who supported them by doing the less adventurous jobs of collecting money, medical supples and food to enable the protestors to continue the fight.

You can use your experience of participation as a youth in other freedom struggles to educate the young people about those fights, what worked, what failed, what you personally learned about making changes. This history is not in their school books, but it is in your mature experience and can be shared to help forumulate the ideas that can change our society for the better. You are already contributing to their education by writing here in D.U., write more!

In your own home community, talk to your neighbors about why we need to uproot our inhuman capitalist system, why it will never work for the majority of U.S. citizens, why a real participatory democracy based on local communities can make life better for all our citizens. Depending upon your personal circumstances, you might be able to organize a local community group to work for needed local changes and thus prepare the groundwork for wider cooperation.

Materially, you may have the skills to make tents, design portable sanitary systems or develop computer programs to insure secure communications. All of those skills may be needed to effect a successful revolution. Contributing ideas may be as important as stopping a tank.

[H2O Man]

60. Outstanding.

Extremely important points, and equally extremely well said. Thank you.

[scarletwoman]

67. I am so grateful that you are sharing your thoughts here.

Thank you!

[socialist_n_TN]

74. WOW! What a post.................

No revolution can succeed without the support of the people and, as you've so eloquently said, that support doesn't ONLY come on the front lines. Do what you CAN do, but do it the best you can. From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.

[Ozymanithrax]

6. Wating for the Koch brothers to fund them. n/t

[socialist_n_TN]

7. Yep it will have to be open ended............

I actually think that a large portion are to that point, ESPECIALLY on our side of the aisle. But there needs to be a spark. The powder's dry and the tinder is set. There's too many people out there with not much left to lose. We just need the spark.

[babylonsister]

9. No, no, and no. If we could walk down the street and meet up

with 10's of thousands, this might happen in the US. This country is too big, and too difficult to herd everyone together. Besides, no one is that unhappy here compared to other places.

[Poboy]

10. laying siege-

Egypt: The camp that toppled a president
Cairo's central Tahrir Square was the focal point for anti-Mubarak protesters during 18 days of demonstrations. As the protest neared its peak, the BBC's Yolande Knell took a tour of the area. Explore the protesters' camp by clicking on the links.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12434787

[scarletwoman]

27. Do you see US laying siege to anything? I don't, not at this point.

We'll simply post our outrage on DU as more and more of The Commons are destroyed and our societal safety net is shredded.

sw

[Poboy]

47. Then, and only then, will 'we' rise up. Much more pain ahead.

[Justina For Justice]

56. Yes, We Can!

If you had asked the average man or woman in the street in Cairo two months ago whether the Egyptian people could rise up and kick out Mubarak, they likely would have said: "No, he is too powerful, he has been in power for 30 years and has the army and the police, besides the Egyptian people are docile and only worried about getting their next meal."

Then a fruit seller in Tunisia, in protest against police brutality, set himself on fire. As a result of the general rage at oppression, not only did the Tunisian people kick out their corrupt dictator, but hundreds of thousands of Egyptian people took to the streets to demand an end to oppression and for real democracy. In less than 18 days, Mubarak was dethroned. Now, many other countries in northern Africa are protesting against their dictatorial regimes.

We in the U.S. need to have faith that when we and our friends and neighbors see the time is ripe, we too will have the courage and fortitude to fight for a truly human society. We must not under-estimate the power of an idea whose time has come. The demand for real participatory democracy is in the air and it is contagious. With the internet, it travels the world in micro-seconds. It can happen here. We must have patience and work for it.

[cbdo2007]

11. Don't know but they better have a Starbucks.

[pnwmom]

12. Where are the masses of people here as bad off as the masses of people there?

For the large majority of people here, the conditions aren't even close to those suffered by the large majority of Egyptians.

[scarletwoman]

20. That goes without saying -- it's obvious. The thing is, we who are aware of the true depradations of

the Owner Class sort of feel an obligation to "Resist the beginnings and consider the end."

sw

[Justina For Justice]

58. It is Hope, Not Misery, Which Can Generate Mass Movements for Change.

The inequality between the rich ruling class in the U.S. and the majority of Americans is actually greater in the U.S. than it is in Egypt. The Egyptian people have been living under an oppressive regime for 30 years and never attempted to throw it off until a month ago. Why now, why not years ago? It is not simply a question of being sufficiently poor and oppressed to make a revolution. No, the Egyptian people were oppressed for thirty years, but a month ago they were infected with a new spirit, a new hope. They saw that Tunisia had suddenly taken to the streets and thrown out their dictator, peacefully.

When you see that a large enough group of people, protesting peacefully, without resort to guns or terrorist attacks, can make radical changes in their society, you are filled with hope -- and maybe the courage to tackle your own country's problems.

In the U.S., With millions unemployed or under-employed, millions losing their homes, their savings and their access to health care, while the wealthy get billions in bonuses from our tax money and savings, we have more than enough misery to justify a revolution.

The key question is whether we will take the hope offered by places such as Tunisia and Egypt. Can we come together to demand true participatory democracy which serves the interests of the majority of Americans, not merely the less than one percent of us who own the vast wealth and virtually all the politicians?

We deserve a just,honest government and a economy which supplies human needs, not merely private corporate profits. Now we need to join with our neighbors to make that a reality.

[scarletwoman]

64. Thank you. Well said!

And welcome to DU!

We deserve a just,honest government and a economy which supplies human needs, not merely private corporate profits. Now we need to join with our neighbors to make that a reality.

Exactly!

sw

[Odin2005]

13. When the TeeeeVeeee quits working.

[defendandprotect]

23. Exactly -- think there are still people sitting in front of their TVs quite sure that if anything

were actually wrong, the TV anchor would be telling them!!!


:rofl:

[Odin2005]

78. "the TV anchor would be telling them!!!" ROFLMAO!!!

:rofl:

[myrna minx]

14. Leave it to you to tell it like it is.

:yourock:

[scarletwoman]

16. Aw, thanks. It's just that after all these years on DU I've been left in doubt of how far people

are honestly willing to go -- myself included. :(

It bothers me, that's the honest truth.

:loveya:
sw

[BeFree]

28. But why?

Here we still have a system that can be worked to achieve needed ends.
Shoot, we worked and got elected a man that most of us never thought possible.

Sure he isn't what we expected but still, he's there. We put him there.

In Egypt their system wasn't workable and it has come to an end the only way it could.
Wiped out.

We can still work our system, but with the new vote counters, it is less and less viable. The politicians don't have to listen to us if all they need to do is have the count go their way.

Hopefully it won't take massive time consuming commitments to take back control of our votes, but everyday it looks more and more like we will go so far down that road, we will. But if we do, we will be much like Egypt of yore: ruled by someone who could never win honestly.

[azul]

29. Thanks for questioning and speaking out.

It will just take some people to make the stand and set the example of how to do it.

But where? Just show up in Washington DC? What logistics to expect, I've never even been there.

We've got a ship-load of grievances to petition them there about, and every right to do it.

TomN

[scarletwoman]

30. "It will just take some people to make the stand..." But, who? Who will stay long enough?

Showing up for a day really means nothing.

To really have an effect, a movement has to make it inconvenient for the TPTB to operate under business as usual.

Which means that the participants in that movement have to be willing to inconvenience themselves.

sw

[Desertrose]

33. I don't think Americans can make it peaceful.....that's what worries me.

We have too much anger and too many guns. The hate has been stirred so well between us that I wonder if we are too volatile....could we accept each other as the Egyptian have? Maybe if we could have dialogue without all the media hype....


And too many cities here (compared to Egypt).....would just one city even make a dent...like DC? If we could organize and do maybe 6 or 7 cities across the US, would that get anyone's attention?

I agree about inconveniencing ourselves. The big question is...are we to the point that we are ready to die if our demands are not met? (Not that we aren't already from having no real healthcare to homeless and jobless.)

:hi:sw

[azul]

36. I do not disagree.

Thought I implied that I would be there for months, if not longer.

Guess that I should always be explicit, thank you, I'm bothered also.

"Tell me not to stop
Just tell me where
To start"
-Gregg Allman

[scarletwoman]

38. Ah, my apologies that I didn't pick up on that.

I'm in the same situation -- I've never been to D.C., and would also have no idea of the logistics.

We'd have to do a modern-day "Bonus Army" type of encampment, I suppose. And probably expect to be tolerated even less than they were...

sw

[handmade34]

26. I think

the situation in the United States merits people collectively acting but not in the same way the Egyptian people had to... we need a sense of community and solidarity before we can accomplish what's needed...

[scarletwoman]

32. The problem is, our "sense of community and solidarity" has been effectively destroyed.

U.S. citizens have been convinced to literally HATE each other.

There is no sense of community -- not where the "bootstraps" myth has taken hold.

There is no solidarity -- not when so many people have been entrained to identify with the Ruling Class instead of with each other.

With all discussion of Class War being effectively forbidden, U.S. citizens have been robbed of the most important and relevant tool by which to form an accurate perception and analysis of their true situation.

sw

[handmade34]

34. quandaries

you are correct... so many places to lay blame but we must transend that game and bring people together

[Blue_In_AK]

35. You have said it well, my friend,

and here is an invisible heart for you. (I donated last week and don't have any more to give.)

[scarletwoman]

37. Thank you, friend.

Invisible hearts are fine by me. :)

:hi:
sw

[JoePhilly]

40. Cairo is one city in a small country ... where would you go to shut down the entire US?

At best, you might get enough people together to shut down a small state. Heck, the Tea Party nuts are doing their best to shut down Arizona. And we see how that's working out.

Past that, let's say you win, and you toss off the current government .... when you get the current government to step down, who becomes the new interim President? Boehner? Me? You?

What do we do with the current Constitution? Tear it up and start over?

Do the current judges stay in place or are they gone too?

Is the military in charge? Or did we disband it during the revolution?

Who pays the police and the fire fighters? Or do we go back to wild west times?

Is the US dollar still our currency?

You will never get people in the streets in the numbers needed, across all of America, unless you have answers to questions like these.

And then there is the fact is that the standard of living here is far better than it is there. Things would need to be far worse for far more people. There is no dictator here. Members of your family and neighbors are not disappearing and being tortured for crimes they did not commit, which was common there. There is no secret police here. Country wide rolling black outs?

Lots of folks seem to be romanticizing about "Why can't we do what the Eqyptians did?"

The reasons seem obvious.

[azul]

42. The dictator here is the obsessive love of money,

and the corruption and secrecy it commands in our government.

We need watchdogs (CUR):

http://www.democraticunderground.com//discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x413176

[Justina For Justice]

45. American Revolutionaries in 1776 Didn't Have All the Answers Before They Revolted!

Do you seriously believe that our revolutionary forefathers (and mothers) had all the answers before they started fighting the British government? Do you believe that the Egyptians have all the answers now, even as many of their demands have been met? I very much doubt it.

It was in the very process of revolution that the answers to questions like JoePhilly's were developed. Our Constitution was not written until 1787, years after the revolution itself was victorious. It is when people come together, sparked by whatever lights the fire, that they discuss, debate, reject, adopt and decide on what forms of new government and economic systems are needed. This is going on now in Egypt, over-turning the Mubarak government is just the first step. Even now, the revolution could be stymied by the temporary military rulers, who will undoubtedly try to retain control in one form or another.

It remains to be seen whether the Egyptian people can successfully continue their push to real, participatory democracy. But, seeing that their relatively leaderless democratic movement already accomplished so much, one hopes that they can continue to the point of thorough-going transformation.

The economic inequality in the U.S. is actually worse than that in Egypt, millions are unemployed or underemployed, millions have lost or are losing their homes to the banksters, millions do not have affordable access to healthcare or education, jobs are being out-sourced to foreign countries, our middle class is being decimated, along with pensions and 401K savings. Government surveillance here is all pervasive.

Our so-called democratic government serves only the very wealthiest, the less than one percent that buy our legislators and write our laws to serve their profit needs. Our media is just as controlled by the wealthy corporations as the Egyptian media was controlled under Mubarak.

Thus, many of the objective conditions likely to generate revolution here are in place. Whether the subjective conditions -- the mindset of the people -- will lead them to revolt is an open question. But, in Egypt, for thirty years the Egyptians were "quiet", despite oppressive conditions. They watched their state television too, which fed them only the ruling class's policies and ideology. But a revolution in a neighboring country, Tunisia, was the spark which set off revolution there. Indeed, Tunisia's example is setting aflame all of north Africa today.

The U.S. is a big country, but so is northern Africa. While media attention focused on the events in the capital city of Cairo in Egypt, in fact revolution was taking place in large cities and small towns all over Egypt, so it is not necessary to focus on a march or occupation in D.C., when marches and occupations in Detroit, Buffalo, Chicago, Denver, Long Island City, New Orleans, even Des Moines and Jackson, Wyoming, coming together, could equally take down our government.

Here in the U.S., we witnessed, thanks to Al Jazeera's superb coverage, the Egyptian people as they came together from all walks of life to change their government, deciding on their agenda after much discussion and debate in the city squares. They didn't start with the answers to all the heavy questions, but worked them out democratically, step by step in the streets. We can do that too, just as our 1776 revolutionaries did. Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come. Let's hope it's time has come in the U.S. as well.

[JoePhilly]

50. The had the most important answer of all ... the existing King / Dictator would

no longer govern them. And that as much as anything united them. They knew that they did not want a leader who controls their lives. They wanted the freedom to elect their own government.

We don't have a King, or a Dictator, and we already get to elect our government. Even if we are at times not happy with how that turns out.

We also have many states, and the folks in those states do not agree on much. The country is about evenly split. The Tea Party nuts would end all social programs, the left would expand them.

Consider that the tea Party is already holding its protests in many cities across the country.

Let's imagine the US government falls, whose vision for the new government will be adopted, the Tea Party's, yours?

But aside from that ... less than half the country votes at all. If you can't get the people to take a morning and go vote, how exactly are you going to get them to spend days in the streets demanding that Obama and his administration step down.

Not going to happen.

[scarletwoman]

62. The enemy is the plutocratic control of our government.

I don't want to bring down the government, I want to bring down the forces that have been destroying our government -- the government that ought to be "of the people, for the people, by the people".

Shut down Wall Street. Shut down the big banks. Shut down the Pentagon. Shut down K Street. Shut down the corporations that are outsourcing our manufacturing and our jobs. Demand an end to media consolidation. Demand an end to tax cuts for the rich. Demand an end to the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan.

I'm well aware that our situation here is not parallel to the situation in Egypt -- although the same sorts of plutocratic corruption are present in both cases. However, we DON'T have a single figurehead on which to focus, we have an entire economic structure that has distorted every aspect of our lives and livelihoods and politics.

What my OP is ultimately about is raising the question of how can we start fighting back in the Class War that has been waged against the ordinary citizen for the past 30+ years.

The Civil Rights movement wasn't about bringing down a single figurehead, it wasn't about bringing down the government. It was about bringing UP justice.

We need a mass movement in this country to bring UP justice for all of us.

sw

[LTX]

44. So you want Americans to stage mass protests

to force President Obama to resign? That sounds vaguely familiar. Oh, right -- the tea party.

[Earth_First]

46. Wow. You missed that one by a mile. n/t

[LTX]

48. Really? The o/p is calling for mass protests like the recent ones in Egypt.

Those protests had a specific purpose. To force Mubarak to resign. If the o/p's call for equivalent mass protests in the US aren't to force President Obama to resign, what are they for? Be specific.

[stevenleser]

55. Exactly. n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

49. Here's a start:

Let's get this party started:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x413773

[Freddie Stubbs]

51. Most Americans don't want Obama to resign and

aren't fans of mob rule.

[badtoworse]

52. +1

[Better Believe It]

53. Why do we need to leave our jobs, homes and comforts for an indefinite amount of time? I won't.

"are you really willing to leave your homes, your jobs, your comforts, your personal conceptions of security and stability for a completely open-ended amount of time?"

When we are put down and oppressed as much as Egyptians have been the answer to your question would be yes .... because we would not have any other viable options.

But even in Egypt the masses of people were not prepared to organize, march and demonstrate for an indefinite period of time. Something has to give. You can't have a prolonged battle without a winnner.

We do not face that horrible situation yet in the United States and we are not even in a pre-revolutionary situation today.

It's coming.

But not next week.

And why would millions of people demonstrate and organize for an indefinite amount of time if they have homes, jobs and comforts?

Why would they need too?

For what purpose?

[stevenleser]

54. What would you be trying to achieve and have you accounted for unintended consequences?

Those Egyptians who wanted to depose Mubarak were agreed that they wanted a Democratically elected government. That is a simple thing on which they all agreed.

The preponderance of people in the US who are currently unhappy with our government are tea baggers. Let's understand what that means.

The teabaggers are overwhelmingly armed at least in comparison to progressives. Assuming that you sparked mass protests that brought down the government and assuming that the military and national guard did not fire on the protesters, do you honestly think the teabaggers would sit idly by while you ushered in a progressive utopia?

The teabaggers want to end public education, any kind of public assistance, they want to privatize social security and they would probably leave national defense policy up to the RNC. Within a year of this happening, they would achieve all of the above and we would probably be at war with Iran.

You think the whole Egypt thing is great now, and it may ultimately turn out wonderfully and I hope that happens with all of my might, but unintended consequences may yet play out there. The military is already trying to crack down on the protests/protesters and get everyone back to work. The elections are scheduled for 6 months from now.

I would suggest that before you even try to ignite mass protests here that you have a good understanding for where most of the people who would join said protests would like to take the country if the government was brought down.

[Better Believe It]

57. So your conclusion is "Resistance is futile"?

What an uninspiring and hopeless picture of political resistance by progressives you have drawn.

I guess we should all find a good place to hide and grow our vegetables in the mountains.

[scarletwoman]

63. Don't be ridiculous. Asking what it would take to have an effect on how our government is currently

run is not asking to "bring down the government".

Actually, my OP was mainly a reaction to another OP I read yesterday about an anti-war march scheduled in San Francisco (I think). I just thought, "Yeah, another afternoon march and rally that won't change anything."

So I posed the question: what would it REALLY take to affect major change?

[grahamhgreen]

69. "The preponderance of people in the US who are currently unhappy with our government are tea baggers

According to what polling data?

The polls I see show our congress/senate with below 25% approval - that's not just teabaggers.

Now you'll notice that right after the Dems rgained power, approval was highest - BECAUSE THE COUNTRY THOUGHT WE WOULD SEE A RETURN TO THE POLICIES OF FDR.

Now, they are in the toilet again as they keep pushing the neo-con agenda.

[scarletwoman]

72. Thank you. I really appreciate your post. (nt)

[deaniac21]

59. They are all members of congress.

[AsahinaKimi]

61. I wonder what would happen

If all business stopped for one day in this country. No sales what so ever.. I know it would never happen, but..could you imagine?

[grahamhgreen]

66. Wait for it, it will come. 2 to 10 years.

[readmoreoften]

70. Of course I am. But people have been so demoralized in this country it will take awhile.

Note: the same people involved in organizing "occasional" rallies were the hardcore group who created the protest that made the Egyptian Revolution possible. It was not an "internet revolution" or "totally spontaneous". There was a crew of 30 point-people and a larger following that created 20 decoy protests willing to be repressed and one later "real" protest in the hands of a small cadre of followers who stirred the masses who don't have the internet in Egypt.

Saying that "marches" and "revolutionary marches" are two distinct things and that the former isn't worth organizing is a false dichotomy. The more people experienced at organization, the less likely a real revolution is to happen and not fall to quick repression.

[Juche]

71. Countries like Egypt and Iran have decades of repressed rage

The explosions in Iran in 2009 didn't happen overnight, there had been anger, rage and despair building up for decades and finding various outlets.

If the US were compared to Iran, I think right now we would be in the Khatami phase. Back when he was elected (before Ahmadinejad) Iranians felt that peaceful democratic methods of changing the course of their nation would work. So they elected a reformer in a landslide election, had high hopes, then felt let down when he couldn't/wouldn't change the power structure. Then Ahmadinejad won, then won a fraudulent election in 2009.

We are in the same situation with Obama. Tons of hope turned into bitterness and disappointment, Obama is to the US what Khatami was to Iran. A disappointment in the belief that things can be changed via the democratic process of electing people we thought were reformers but who couldn't/wouldn't reform.

If the country does erupt into widespread strikes, it'll probably take several more years for the despair and rage to reach that point IMO.

Let some tea bagger extremist win in 2012 or 2016 and try to cut taxes on the wealthy while cutting SS, education and medicare. All with 9% unemployment. Something big will eventually happen.

But I doubt things get much better in the US before then, so something is bound to happen here.

Too many of us still have too much hope things will get better, too much faith in the system, and too much to lose. But if things don't get better then there will be enraged people with no faith in the system and nothing to lose. Then you see the mass unrest.

We have a higher standard of living than people in Egypt. But the system is plutocratic and getting worse. And more and more of us realize our kids generation will have it worse than we do, that we can never truly have secure retiremetns or health care, and that things aren't going to get better in any meaningful way. Once people realize their lives aren't getting better and that their kids will have even worse lives than themselves, people stop being afraid.

[Throd]

73. I'm not near desperate or hopeless enough to do such a thing.

And our president was duly elected

[scarletwoman]

76. Who said anything about overthrowing our president?

Good grief. It's a whole SYSTEM than needs be overthrown. The president means nothing, he has no more power to overthrow the System than we do.

The president is just as OWNED as the rest of us.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. The volcano has started to show fumaroles

patients, it is coming. It will not precisely come in the form of Tahrir,,, but it will come

[hugo_from_TN]

77. When this happens in the US, it will be the right overthrowing the govt.

and the left trying to stop it.