Can we please retire the phrase "the goalposts have been moved"?

[Ken Burch]

It's a meaningless term. It doesn't contribute to debate. It solves nothing.

It's not a fit phrase for this board.

[Mira]

1. Never heard it. Don't know what it means if I did. Consider it done. n/t

[noise]

2. How did you go from temporary ban to

retiring the phrase for good? Talk about moving the goalposts.

[MrModerate]

4. I think the poster meant in the sense of "retiring one's jersey," i.e., to never use it again.

'Course, I'm just guessing.

[noise]

9. Nicely played

Subtle moving of the goalposts.

[MrModerate]

10. Touché

[MrModerate]

3. Certainly overused, and misused, but why banish a perfectly useful phrase . . .

to the wilderness just because of the misdeeds of its users?

And it does have a very specific meaning: to change the rules when the game is already on; to unfairly alter the agreed basis of interaction or contest after the contest has begun. Not one of my favs, but it does accurately reflect political tactics we see around us.

[Tunkamerica]

5. You're solving shit with phrases?!

[Ken Burch]

12. I'm not even sure what that means.

I'm just making a request to stop using a phrase that serves no purpose but to discourage discussion and debate.

[Tunkamerica]

16. You said it didn't solve anything... apparently there are certain phrases which do solve things.

I was impressed at your ability to solve "things" with phrases. Kudos.

[Ken Burch]

19. I wasn't claiming to have the ability to "solve things with phrases".

And none of this is about my, or anyone else's ego. To imply that it is is to belittle the person rather than actually engage in the topic(whatever the topic may be).

[Tunkamerica]

21. Jeez, calm down.

I didn't think you were being as serious as you apparently are about this horrid, horrid phrase which is sabotaging our efforts at reform. Now that I realize how passionate you are I am won over. In fact, I think any phrase that has been used successfully more than twice should be retired from the lexicon. That should make you happy and show that my attempt at levity was merely misguided as opposed to contentious in nature.

[Ken Burch]

24. I'm not that "serious"

It's just that what you were posting didn't exactly read as comedy. Whatever.

I can take a joke about myself.

[bobbolink]

40. bwahahaha!

Rile someone up with arguing, then tell them to "calm down".

Maybe kicking a football instead would be good exercise.

[aikoaiko]

32. Its a fine metaphor. Don't use it if you don't want to, but I think its ridiculous of you to ask..

...folks not to use.

[uppityperson]

43. If you don't know what it means, and yes it does have a good meaning, then ask. Here...

If someone wants proof of something, for instance most cats have fur they shed all over you, then you give them proof of that. Then they say "but they are evil!", you can reply "you are moving the goal posts" since what they asked for (cats shed fur) was proven and what they now ask for is something different (cats are evil).

It is over used and misused but is a good phrase in some instances.

[PBS Poll-435]

6. Talk about moving the goal posts!

I would settle for a few other phrases to venture off into the unknown...

[tekisui]

7. I have a laundry list to send off.

[Blue-Jay]

8. No. It's a useful phrase.

Did someone accuse someone else of moving the goalposts? Welcome to the internet.

[Codeine]

11. It's actually a perfectly apt phrase

for a sadly typical debating tactic used by those who are intellectually dishonest (or just plain dumb) when they find themselves in a losing position. Many of the most unpleasant and hectoring posters around here do it a lot, and we'll continue to call them on it with that convenient bit of phraseology.

[Behind the Aegis]

13. Well stated.

[Enthusiast]

14. The phrase is perfectly apt

in today's political reality.

[pinboy3niner]

15. At the end of the day, that's my narrative...

...and I'm stickin' to it! Shame on you for even asking me to change my optics this late in the game. You may think you're just running this up the flagpole to see who salutes (or if it plays in Peoria), but I suspect you're just throwing a 'Hail Mary' and you know it.

[Obamanaut]

17. Is this your 'line in the sand'? nt

[MorningGlow]

42. That's a "game changer." n/t

[cali]

18. Because YOU don't think it's a useful phrase? Fat chance.

Posts like yours are so high handed. They offend me.

So...

No.

[Ken Burch]

20. Why?

Is it THAT threatening to you that I questioned the use of an annoying bit of phraseology(one that I've seldom heard YOU use, btw)which is mainly deployed to bring discussion to a halt by falsely implying that something unfair is suddenly being expected?

[skepticscott]

28. Baloney

The use of the phrase is not intended to halt discussion, but to expose dishonest debating tactics and bring the discussion BACK to its original point. Do you really not comprehend that?

And where in the world do you get the notion that use of the phrase "moving the goalposts" is always "falsely implying" something? Are you saying that people never specify evidence that will make them concede a point, and then demand more evidence when what they originally asked for is actually produced? And do you really, seriously consider it "unfair" in a debate to insist that people show intellectual honesty, and to call them on it if they don't?

Sheesh

[Ken Burch]

50. Intellectual honesty is a reasonable expectation.

It seems to me, more recently, that it's mainly been used to deflect progressive criticism of the administration, and to imply that people are asking too much of it. I don't see it used that much against those to our Right.

[skepticscott]

51. And that has exactly what

to do with whether the phrase "moving the goalposts" is useless and meaningless, and not fit for this board, as you claimed?

If you can't defend your OP, then just say so and move on. But please don't try your deflection tactics here...they won't fly.

[Ken Burch]

55. No deflection.

I was agreeing that intellectual honesty is a reasonable expectation. But that expectation is NOT what fuels most usage of the "moving the goalposts" meme these days. Usually, it's code for "you're making a case I have no rebuttal for, so I'm just going to claim you're being unreasonable".

[skepticscott]

61. As has been explained to you many times in this thread

it is used in exactly the opposite way. It means "you claimed that X would satisfy your request for evidence proving a point, and now that I've provided X, you say you won't be satisfied until I provide Y as well"

And gee...in your OP, you claimed that the phrase was "meaningless", and now all of a sudden, you're ascribing meaning to it. Imagine that.

[Obamanaut]

34. "just saying" is an appendage that we could do without also, and is much

overused as well - don't you think?

Some might say that adding 'just sayin' to a statement/opinion suggests a reluctance to offer reasons for that what was just said is true

here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=392869#393002


Ken Burch (1000+ posts)
9. Tomorrow, he'll be indignantly denying rumors that Hosni Mubarak is a Muslim.....just sayin' Fri Feb-11-11 02:31 AM


or here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=374390#374433


43. Couldn't leave it at their MOUTHS, though......just sayin'...

here as well: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=90268#90272

. Uh, Ashton, dude...six-pack abs won't help anybody in the Last Days......just sayin'...

[NuclearDem]

35. I think it's a pretty cool phrase...

Just sayin' :evilgrin:

[Obamanaut]

36. I read something the other day, and the author ended with "I'm not saying, I'm just saying."

That caused an actual LOL.

[Ken Burch]

49. I do probably overuse that. It's mainly meant for comic effect.

I'll try to avoid it.

[darkstar3]

22. It IS a fit phrase for this board.

It is perhaps an overused phrase because it is most definitely an overused debating tactic. And in a written discussion with no time limits and no format, it is a completely inappropriate method of debate. Calling someone out on it is the only way to effectively and quickly bring the debate back to the topic and goals at hand.

But I'll make you a deal. I won't use it...improperly.

[BlueIris]

71. Indeed. It is a phrase perfect for too much of what goes on here, every day. nt

[era veteran]

23. And that is the whole nine yards.

[mmonk]

25. It's been moved so much as to be meaningless anyway.

[originalpckelly]

26. I like moving the goalpost.

It's so fun to see the sadness on their faces right after they think they just scored a point.

I prefer to do it at the professional level, so I'm not only fucking with the players, but all the fans of the game.

And of course, I have to pay off the officials and refs. Without that, there is no goalpost moving.

[skepticscott]

27. You're free to stop using it any time you want

but it is a perfectly appropriate phrase. To say that it is meaningless is simply ridiculous and incomprehensible. "Moving the goalposts" is an entirely legitimate characterization of an intellectually dishonest debating tactic (used all too frequently on this site and others), in which someone demands certain evidence before they will concede a point, and then when, to their chagrin, that evidence is actually produced, they demand more evidence, and then more, betraying that, in reality, no amount of evidence will ever change their views.

How exactly is it "not a fit phrase"?

[Uben]

29. Can we please retire the word "the".

Makes as much sense as this thread

[madinmaryland]

45. "the" was replaced with "teh" several years ago.

:shrug:

[Uben]

47. How moranic of me?

I need to get a brane!

[Festivito]

30. No. It does have meaning. It does contribute to debate.

It does solve in substance. It only stops debate if that is where the debate should stop.

And, it is fit to use, here and elesewhere.

[Ichingcarpenter]

31. We don't have the budget to move the goalposts

let alone fix the infrastructure. The road map is also
not something to look at we need a blueprint because
the roads and bridges on the road map are shoddy
conditions..... Goal posts? hell what about the school?

[NuclearDem]

33. Can we please add words like Rethug and Repuke to that as well?

Seriously, it was cute the first hundred thousand times, but now it's just getting old.

[superduperfarleft]

37. + a million.

Although I'd disagree that it was ever cute. It's just as stupid as "demoncrap" or some shit.

[Ichingcarpenter]

38. What you want to call them Republicans and Americans?

I don't want to offend your family or friends

But can I call them assholes instead?

Or just Patriots?

[NuclearDem]

39. Republicans would be fine.

Rethug and Repuke make us all look like a bunch of fucking eight year olds.

[Blue-Jay]

56. Agreed.

The word "Republican" is bad enough.

[11 Bravo]

41. Are you trying to throw that phrase under the bus?

[treestar]

44. Of course not

It's fair enough on DU.

How many times have there been posts screaming about how X should be done, X is done and then it's not good enough? People who do that shit deserve to be called on it.

[madinmaryland]

46. I think the goalposts have been moved on you Ken.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

48. only after we retire sticking -gate on the end of

every fucking pseudo-scandal that comes along...

sP

[Lil Missy]

52. No. The fact that you don't see meaning does not constitute a problem for me.

[alcibiades_mystery]

53. I like it, and think it accurately depicts a particular stance of some people here

or rather, a complete lack of stance.

[immoderate]

54. Avoid cliches like the plague!

--imm

[Ken Burch]

59. And avoid the plague like cliches!

n/t.

[RedCloud]

68. And time flies like an arrow but fruit flies like a banana

[Ken Burch]

74. And you an tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

n/t.

[Bozita]

57. List Of Words Banished From The Queen's English For Mis-Use In 2011:

http://ifitshipitshere.blogspot.com/2011/01/list-of-words-banished-from-queens.html

1.01.2011

List Of Words Banished From The Queen's English For Mis-Use In 2011.
ShareThis


SAULT STE. MARIE, Mich. – It may have been word of the year in some wheelhouses, but "refudiate" wasn't looked upon favorably by many who sent in nominations for Lake Superior State University's 36th annual List of Words Banished from the Queen's English for Mis-use, Over-use and General Uselessness, which was released on New Year's Eve.

In a busy U.S. election year, "the American People" told LSSU they were tired of not only "refudiate," but also "mama grizzlies" who wanted their opponents to "man up."

But words and phrases related to technology and the way we communicate dominated the list for 2011, including "viral," "epic," "fail," and the use of websites "Facebook" and "Google" as verbs. "Viral" received the most nominations.

The "back story" on LSSU's popular list began on Jan. 1, 1976, when former LSSU Public Relations Director Bill Rabe and a group of friends each contributed a few expressions that they disliked to form the first list. After that, the nominations stacked up for future lists and Rabe's group, known then as The Unicorn Hunters, didn't have to make up its own list again. LSSU receives well over 1,000 nominations annually through its website.

And now, here's a look at the 2011 list. Get ready for the "wow factor!" It's full of "epic" "a-ha moments" that are sure to go "viral." It's a no-"fail" list that you'll be "facebooking" and "googling" with your "BFFs." "Just sayin'."

more...

[canetoad]

58. Stop moving the goalposts. nt

[Morning Dew]

60. Scott Norwood, is that you? n/m

[Renew Deal]

62. You came out of the frying pan into the fryer to post that?

Girls who wear glasses seldom get passes and neither do those that move goalposts. Stop strutting around like a banty rooster with your chest puffed out.

[Zhade]

63. Not only no, but FUCK NO.

You clearly don't understand how useful the term actually is. Oh, and you're not the arbiter of what is and isn't fit for this board.

I've seen it used successfully enough times here to stimulate and re-focus debate that your request is laughable on its face.

[Codeine]

73. Excellent response. nt

[totodeinhere]

76. +1

[11 Bravo]

64. Goalpostsgate?

[pinboy3niner]

67. Special Prosecutor?

:evilgrin:

[11 Bravo]

69. Where's Archibald Cox when we really need him?

(Did I just date myself?)

:patriot:

[pinboy3niner]

70. Uh-oh. Saturday Night Goalpost Massacre?

(I think we both did. :) )

:patriot:

[11 Bravo]

75. It's official, bro ... we're freaking OLD!

(But when I consider the alternative, that ain't half bad.)

[QC]

65. But it's the new pony! n/t

[JoePhilly]

66. The proposal is UP ... AND .. IT ... IS ... NOOO GOOD!!!! The proposal FELL SHORT!!!

It didn't go the whole nine yards .... and that's the ball game!!

[rucky]

72. Only if we can retire the phrase "retire the phrase".

sorry to keep moving the goalposts like that.