There is no need to cede the word "entitlement" to the GOP

[ProSense]

His is Russ Feingold in 2008.

<...>

Walker rightly notes that entitlements, too, should be addressed, but a one-size-fits-all solution to those programs will not work. The problems underlying entitlement programs vary greatly. Social Security, for example, is in relatively good shape, needing only modest changes to put it on a sound long-term fiscal footing. Medicare and Medicaid, by contrast, are a much greater challenge. Those two entitlements are health care programs, and they face the same pressures driving the growth of overall health care costs. The only sustainable way to reduce federal expenditures on Medicare and Medicaid is through comprehensive health care reform, where preventive care is valued, necessary care is accessible, and long-term care is affordable. The numerous inefficiencies in the current system have led to a record-setting rise in both the cost of health care and the cost of obtaining health care. Health care costs have become so excessive that more and more Americans forgo necessary health care, only to end up in emergency rooms with compounded medical conditions and compounded medical bills. Reforming our health care system is the key to getting Medicare and Medicaid under control.

link

[tekisui]

1. What is the relevance of this op-ed from 2008?

Are we talking about the same 'entitlements' that Feingold mentioned almost 3 years ago?

Is it the same problem? Same remedies he is supporting here?

[ProSense]

2. What? n/t

[tekisui]

3. Let me repeat it. What's your point?

You post an op-ed from almost 3 years ago. Why?

Do you have a point?

[ProSense]

4. Let me repeat: What? You asked:

"Are we talking about the same 'entitlements' that Feingold mentioned almost 3 years ago?

Is it the same problem? Same remedies he is supporting here?"

Is there a different Social Security?

[tekisui]

5. Okay, We are getting closer to your point. Let's keep going.

Your response: Is there a different Social Security?

No. I assume from your response, your point of posting this nearly 3 year old Op-ed is that something needs to be done with Social Security?

[ProSense]

6. Here, let me help

Point: "There is no need to cede the word "entitlement" to the GOP"

See OP title. Now if the point isn't clear, I can't help you.

[tekisui]

9. That makes no sense.

What are you trying to say?

The word entitlement is a good word to use?

The gop stole it?

Sorry, I don't get it. I know you usually have clear talking points, but this one is getting past me.

[ProSense]

10. It makes perfect sense. n/t

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

13. Evidently, the OP is causing some stress. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

7. Maybe Obama should have talked about HC entitlements when he was advancing...

subsidies to the for profit companies with his HC "insurance."

Of course Medicare is going to be a problem, ever hear of the boomers or advances in medicine.

Sure ... let the for profit companies insure the healthiest segment (with government subsidies) and then have government be responsible for the most needy.

Obama did not even try to explain this to American people, instead the Dems hid behind we do not have the votes.

And Obama talked about reducing the deficit mostly through entitlement spending before he ever moved into the WH, but of course there were excuses.

Just posted here...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=368696&mesg_id=376442

Of course we see the connection you are trying to make, Feingold perceived as more liberal and HE used the entitlement word, so OK for Obama to use the same word.

[ProSense]

8. Entitlement isn't a bad word.

Period.

[tekisui]

11. Ah, there we go! Embrace the right wing framing!

Why didn't you just say that. Funny you had to dig out one op-ed from nearly 3 years ago to make your case. :rofl:

[ProSense]

14. Didn't realize that Feingold was RW. n/t

[tekisui]

17. This has nothing to do with Feingold and you know it.

If we can just embrace the right wing frame and call our social safety nets entitlements, it will be that much more palatable to make cuts to them.

Feingold was using the language of Walker. I think he was wrong to do it, did he do it often? or just this once?

You found one quote from Feingold from 3 years ago. What else do you have?

Anything more recent? Other liberals calling Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid entitlements?

[ProSense]

20. It has everything to do with the word "entitlement" n/t

[tekisui]

24. Such a beautiful word! So much positive association with it!

Such a long history of progressive ideals behind it!

Thank you for this post and raising awareness! I love the word entitlements, now!

[ProSense]

27. No argument here. So

which entitlement program do you want to demonize?

[tekisui]

31. Which entitlement programs do you want to cut?

Or 'reform'?

[ProSense]

32. None. Now

Your turn: Which entitlement program do you want to demonize?

[slipslidingaway]

18. Feingold used the word so all is OK, the fact is that this All HC should have...

been part of the debate. The administration pretends like the boomers are a whole separate issue, instead of trying to advance HC for all.

Obama did the same thing during the campaign when he mentioned there are fewer workers for each person on SS, I knew right then that he preferred to divide the generations. Funny thing is that for many people, if their parents/relatives run into financial trouble, they will try and pitch in. It will have an effect on them as well.

We need to look at the whole country and not divide people.

[slipslidingaway]

15. Obama should have talked about the total HC spending during the HC reform debate...

instead he silenced the not for profit advocates.

I get the point of your post - Feingold said it, so all is fine.

But what about the fact that Obama went back on his HC plan and silenced the idea of universal, tax payer funded care for all.

This is not an old issue when he tells us that we are going to have to make tough choices when it comes to SS, Medicare and Medicaid to reduce the deficit. Boomers retiring and increasing Medicare rolls from 46 million to 70 million over the next 2 decades is not a new concept.

It is the HC debate all over, because now we'll hear about the Medicare cuts, we should have had a real debate.

[ProSense]

16. The health care debate has nothing to do with the point of the OP. n/t

[tekisui]

19. Right, the point of the OP is...

not ceding co-opting the right-wing frame.

[ProSense]

22. No, that's your point.

I'm not in the habit of giving a word to the GOP.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

29. Stressed? n/t

[tekisui]

30. I don't do stress.

So, no. Thanks for your concern, though.:hi:

[slipslidingaway]

21. Of course you would prefer to separate HC from "entitlement" spending for Medicare...

what does Medicare cover if not HC.

:shrug:

[ProSense]

26. No, you're

debating yourself. The OP is about ceding the word to the GOP.

[tekisui]

28. Liberals never owned that word.

This OP is about adopting it from the GOP.

You are going to have to produce more evidence than a 3 year old op-ed that was a direct response to a tour by someone with an agenda to prove that it was word that liberals ever owned.

[slipslidingaway]

33. I know what the OP was about, it was clear what you were attempting to do...

since we're talking about "entiltment" spending then HC is part of the discussion.

But I know you would prefer to keep your narrow focus.

Obama blew it on HC, tax dollars to the for profit companies, but we need to cut entiltement spending on Medicare.

[ProSense]

34. No, it's not part of the discussion, which is ceding the word to the GOP. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

39. Keep your narrow focus if you want, but you cannot deny that Obama said ...

one thing during the campaign and then did the opposite when elected - Oh Billy Tauzin, sure we'll drop the idea of negotiating drug prices for Medicare if you run some ads for HC reform.

Now the word entitlement is coming up because Obama just said again that we'll have to cut entitlement spending, but I understand you do not want to discuss any potential cuts - just focus on the word.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=420430&mesg_id=420457

Candidate Obama ...

"And we are tired of watching as year after year, candidates offer up detailed health care plans with great fanfare and promise only to see them crushed under the weight of Washington politics and drug and insurance lobbying once the campaign is over.

That is not who we are, that is not who we have to be, enough is enough, it time for us to change."

"Barack Obama and Joe Biden will repeal the ban on direct negotiation with drug companies and use the resulting savings, which could be as high as $30 billion (per year),33 to further invest in improving health care coverage and quality."

By William Greider, The Nation. Posted August 8, 2009.

"The White House has cut a deal with Big Pharma that smells like the same old rotten politics that candidate Obama regularly denounced..."

[ProSense]

40. Keep debating yourself. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

44. Keep posting, honestly I do not know how you have time for anything else...

it appears as if your defense of the administration is almost a full time endeavor.

[ProSense]

45. Well,

did you expect everyone to continue beating the health care debate to death?

[slipslidingaway]

49. When there is talk from Obama of making tough choices in cutting Medicare and Medicaid...

YES!!!

You can try and separate the words from the consequences if you like, I will not.

[slipslidingaway]

51. Guess you need to get ready for a busy day of posting tomorrow...

goodnight.

[ProSense]

55. Why does this bother you? n/t

[slipslidingaway]

60. Just an observation, if you want to spend all day and night posting links...

defending the administration then have fun.

:rofl:

[ProSense]

61. Well,

it's certainly fun to see the reaction, especially the attempt to distract.

[slipslidingaway]

69. No distraction, I just understand you have a busy schedule to keep...

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

42. Reagan?

"Stop pushing your Reaganite corporate agenda down our throats!"

What the hell are you talking about?

[slipslidingaway]

23. knr for discussion nt

[blogslut]

35. I disagree

"Entitlement" is a GOP/Gingrich word designed to denigrate what used to be called "Social Services".

I don't like anyone using the word, not Senator Feingold, not President Obama, not anyone.

[Lorien]

36. Agreed. When you hear someone say "so you feel entitled to a job?" does it make

you think that they believe that you DESERVE a job? Or are they saying that you're a lazy, spoiled brat who expects to be given something that you haven't worked for? Social Security and Medicare are publicly financed SOCIAL PROGRAMS. They were always Social Programs before Reagan set his sights on destroying them.

[ProSense]

38. Don't agree.

ESTABLISHING BENEFICIARY ENTITLEMENT

It's dangerous to demonize the word. Seriously, what's the point?

[blogslut]

41. Why is it dangerous to take back the intended meaning of these programs?

Simply use the terms "social program" or "social service" when referring to them as a collective and calmly correct anyone you hear using the word "entitlement".

What's so hard about that?

It's similar to when we insisted on referring to abortions rights as "the right to choose" or "choice". Now those are a solid part of the lexicon.

"Social services" and "Social Programs" used to be part of the lexicon and there's no reason why we shouldn't do our best to bring these truer descriptives back.

[ProSense]

43. Why do you need to demonize a word?

What's the point of demonizing a word that is linked to social programs?

The other day someone suggested "middle class" should be abolished.

What next: poor? working poor?

[blogslut]

47. Why were the names for these programs changed to begin with?

Are you perhaps too young to remember when the word "entitlement" was not used?

[ProSense]

50. You tell me.

I just don't see the point of ceding the word "entitlement" to the GOP.

[blogslut]

53. I don't see the point in allowing them to get away with using it

So, there you have it.

As for when I noticed the word entered the main, I think it was during the previous administration. Probably Karl's idea.

[leftstreet]

46. unRec

Good grief

[ProSense]

48. Sorry,

I couldn't find anything in the "Obama is a RW tool" to post.

[leftstreet]

52. ALL politicians are tools of the Ruling Class

Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with Obama

He's great! He's an outstanding CEO

[ProSense]

54. Bernie Sanders?

He's a politician.

I don't buy into broad brush smears.

[leftstreet]

66. Who said "tool" is a smear? I think it's a very positive word

Tools have been important throughout history

:-)

[ProSense]

71. OK

I misunderstood.

So you don't mind being called a "tool"?

:)

[Bonobo]

56. Subtext = Feingold used the word "entitlement" so no liberals can criticize Obama for it. Discuss.

Why didn't you just come out and make your obvious point more...obviously?

[ProSense]

57. Actual text:

It's stupid to cede the word "entitlement" to the GOP.

Discuss that.

[Bonobo]

62. Do you mean that the Dems should use the word more aggressively?

And you are arguing that that would somehow 'neutralize' the word while preventing them from co-opting it?


My problem is that the word, although originally meaning a "Right" or "Obligation" has increasingly taken on the meaning of a "privilege" or a "give away"

It sucks, but that's what happens in a living language.

Toss the word out and explain in words people can understand that it is NOT a privilege but a DUTY to pay back the promise of SS that people have surrendered part of their paychecks for for all these years.

[ProSense]

63. Well,

"My problem is that the word, although originally meaning a "Right" or "Obligation" has increasingly taken on the meaning of a "privilege" or a "give away"

It sucks, but that's what happens in a living language."

...it happens because people allow it to happen. Same thing with the word "liberal."

[Bonobo]

70. It happens beyond the control of a small group of people.

It just happens.

Why not try to rehabilitate the word "negro" by convincing people that it just means "black"?

See my point?

[ProSense]

72. The word isn't obsolete.

It's still widely used.

[Bonobo]

77. And equally widely muddied. nt

[ProSense]

78. I was referring to the word "entitlement"

"Negro" is obsolete.

[Bonobo]

79. So was I. nt

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

59. Why, is my POV

that hard to counter except with attempts to insult?

[Marr]

64. You're just defending the President.

It's what you do, I understand. You take the outrage of the moment and explain why it's nothing to be concerned about.

I'm not going to argue this point because really, it should be obvious to the most casual observer that using your opponent's chosen vocabulary and framing is not wise. C'mon.

[ProSense]

68. So let me get this straight

If someone supports Obama and makes a point that you can't counter, it's OK to make the kind of comment you previously made?

Does that mean if the point is critical of Obama, it's OK to say: You just hate the President?

"I'm not going to argue this point because really, it should be obvious to the most casual observer that using your opponent's chosen vocabulary and framing is not wise. C'mon."

Then why bother commenting? You aren't adding anthing.

[Marr]

73. You're right. I don't add anything.

We should use right wing frames and terminology when discussing this issue. Someone has to rescue those poor words. Thank goodness we have a president who is willing to adopt a traditionally right-wing vocabulary.

No need to be concerned about it. It's super, in fact.

[ProSense]

75. Reclaim? n/t

[Marr]

76. I've changed it to "rescue".

That's more noble.

[leftstreet]

65. When and where will the Medicare/SS Town Halls take place?

Anyone know?

[slipslidingaway]

67. The Medicare Town Halls should have taken place with the HC discussion...

now we're going to talk about all the boomers using Medicare in the next two decades, as if they just appeared and we did not know.

[leftstreet]

74. Yep. 79 million boomers start turning 65 this year $$$$

The private insurance industry is about to start taking a MAJOR MAJOR hit as boomers shift to Medicare...er, I mean Entitlements.

:banghead:

[slipslidingaway]

80. Private industry likes the mandates, they knew that they would lose customers...

to Medicare and in steps the goverment to pay subsidies to these private companies.

And ignores their the HC plan to allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices, made a deal with Billy instead.

:banghead:

Me too!