TIME | Why Kids Bully: Because They're Popular

[Heidi]

Mean kids, mothers tell their wounded young, behave that way because they have unhappy home lives, or feel inadequate, or don't have enough friends or because they somehow lack empathy. But a new study suggests some mean kids actually behave that way simply because they can.

Contrary to accepted ruffian-scholarship, the more popular a middle- or high-school kid becomes, the more central to the social network of the school, the more aggressive the behavior he or she engages in. At least, that was the case in North Carolina, where students from 19 middle and high schools were studied for 4.5 years by researchers at the University of California-Davis.

<snip>

"Seemingly normal well-adjusted kids can be aggressive," says Faris, whose results are published in the new issue of the American Sociological Review. "We found that status increases aggression."

While the authors are not ruling out psychological or background influences as underlying causes of the bullying, they believe that popularity is at least as important. "It's one of the few times I can recall in social sciences where race and family background seem to make very little difference," says Faris. "Those demographic and socioeconomic factors don't seem to matter as much as where the kids are in the school hierarchy."

Faris also found that the more kids cared about popularity, the more aggressive they were. Ironically, that's pointless; hostile behavior did not cause rises in status. "The evidence suggests that overall aggression does not increase status," he says. Then again, it's not whether it works that's important. It's whether the kids believe it works.

Why Kids Bully: Because They're Popular

[melman]

1. Popular kids are mean? Shocking.

Next they'll tell us water is wet.

[Kolesar]

2. Brutal schools is one reason why I never had children

Overpopulation is the other

[stuntcat]

54. +1

being a quiet kid in a school full of pigs taught me what I need to know about humans.

(edit, NOTHING against swine certainly)

[dawg]

60. Yes, but I bet you're a brilliant guy with ...

a disposition towards not doing things to harm others or waste resources. Guys like us (being charitable to myself) are not reproducing as fast as the assholes. It it de-evoloution in action. These guys were prophets:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCpxSzacbyc

[Kolesar]

62. Mark Mothersbaugh said that the end of the Vietnam War should have given us another Pete Seeger...

...but instead America turned into this shallow, materialistic culture. We didn't learn and we didn't change after the war, the Pentagon Papers, May 4th, and the Civil Rights movement.

Devo and I both remembered what it was like to have our classmates worrying about the draft and the "lottery".

WNEO/WNEO public television produced a documentary about Akron punk called: "It Came From Akron". You would love it.

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. Kinda like the Grenada invasion. There was no point to it other than...

... to *impress* rivals and potential rivals.

[Democat]

5. Nice one, bringing Reagan into this thread!

We should probably try to mention him in each thread for his birthday.

[rfranklin]

10. I dsiagree...it was to make Americans forget about Lebanon...

and the fact that Reagan "cut and run" after the bombing that killed 241 American military personnel. I think the rest of the world thought it was a pathetic show.

[xchrom]

4. that's the way i remember school.

i wasn't bullied -- but i remember kids who were, kids who were 'out' and the popular 'in' kids.

[Fumesucker]

6. Status increases aggression all through life..

Get high enough status and you can rob widows and orphans, kill and even torture and society will fall all over itself to excuse your deeds.

[bobbolink]

29. Exactly! School is just the training ground for bullying.

Note to DU....per the article, gossip and verbal taunting is BULLYING.

[City Lights]

51. !

Sadly, you're spot on!

[get the red out]

7. Not surprised

I always new the standard explanations were bunk. I can't help but think that the bullying is potentially increased when the school personnel buy into the kid social structure as well. When kids create their own society without enough adult guidance it is disastrous.

[boobooday]

8. GWB = perfect example

As soon as his approval ratings went up after 9/11, he was ready to attack someone.

I'm popular! Who do I beat up now?

[AndyTiedye]

21. And there is the evidence of GWB's Class Yearbook

[stuntcat]

53. nice.

I have a word for a boy like that.. not nice to say among gentlemen though.

[cali]

9. wow. you mean power corrupts? I never would have thought of that.

[Heidi]

11. And it appears from the article that aspiring to power also corrupts. (nt)

[Viking12]

12. maybe Tina Fey could write a movie about it..

Oh wait, she did.

[Reader Rabbit]

13. I'm printing this out for our school's counselors.

They gave a presentation a month back about why we should be nice to and sympathize with the bullies. Most of the teachers were staring at each other, dumbfounded. Not a word about the bullies' victims in their presentation. And then they likened teachers' attempts to discipline the bullies as another form of bullying. It was sickening.

[exboyfil]

20. Why do you think that Homeschooling has such as push

and folks want the option of removing their children from situations like this. The only time my daughter was physically bullied, I was at the school complaining and they did something about it. I am fortunate. I went through hell in school, and I vowed never to let the same thing happen to my girls.

If administrations keep this crap up, and they can watch their tax revenues dry up. I will be the first leading the charge. I would publicize it in the local paper with a guest column etc. if I heard about it in my school district.

[vim876]

23. Seriously.

I was bullied horribly as a kid in my public school from 3rd grade until I graduated. Teachers ignored the behavior, even when my parents complained, and some of them even tacitly encouraged it. There is not enough money in the world to get me to send my future child to school any time before high school (my partner thinks they need "real" school then to get into college, whereas I think homeschool + community college classes are fine; negotiations are ongoing) in this homophobic, woman-hating, anti-intellectual, fat-phobic culture. No thanks. I think my kids deserve better than a life of severe mental illness sparked by abusive school experiences.

[bobbolink]

31. There's one you left out of your list... Poor Hating.

Poor kids suffer as much from bullying as any of the other groups you mentioned, but it isn't acknowledged, so it will continue.

[vim876]

24. Dupe (nt)

[Mariana]

32. I simply refused to send my daughter to middle school.

My middle school experience was so horrific that I just could not send her into that snakes' nest. Every time her friends were over and I'd overhear them talking about school, my decision was reinforced. I think it's even worse now than when I was in middle school - I wouldn't have thought that was possible.

She's in public high school now and she's doing just great there, academically and socially.

[vim876]

35. You're right.

That is a glaring error, and I apologize. It is not one I personally experienced, so I didn't think of it while writing the first post, but it is crucial.

[vim876]

36. Previous response meant for Bobbolink.

Whoops. Sorry.

[vim876]

37. Dupe

That's two already today. I must be on some sort of roll.

[Dulcinea]

43. I'll try to get my daughter into a magnet school for middle school.

She's a straight-A student who loves science. I won't allow her to be ashamed of her brains because the Mean Girls are threatened by smart girls, and will likely bully her. Why do I think that? I was a bookworm who was bullied by Mean Girls from 7th grade-9th grade. That will not happen to her if I can help it.

[mopinko]

49. that's one reason I did it.

i knew my son would be a target sooner or later. he was slight, smart and shy. i knew others who did/felt the same.
there were a lot of reasons, but that was a big one. when people would quiz me about "the s word" (which EVERYONE did) I always said that school is where kids go to get anti- socialized.

[exboyfil]

59. We are fortunate to have very good schools here

but I am still Homeschooling my younger daughter in English and Social Studies for 7th and 8th grade. I feel that I can do a better job than our school. My older daughter's 7th and 8th grade English teacher wasn't very good, and my younger one was slated to have him this year. The Social Studies curriculum is mixed up (you can get a degree from our High School without ever studying the Middle Ages, Renaissance, and Reformation). Both my daughters are doing one grade level ahead work in Science and Math, and those programs are pretty good in our school system.

I am still not sold that a diploma from our school would be a better approach than Homeschooling. My older daughter is straight As so far, and I do feel she is being challenged. She has an excellent English teacher, a pretty good History teacher, and a fairly good Spanish teacher. Her Biology teacher has been able to quench my daughter's excitement for Science so I am a little irritated right now. My older daughter would make a fantastic engineer, but I want her to follow her passion. Hopefully she will have a better experience in Chemistry next year.

[AndyTiedye]

22. Where Did These "Counselors" Get the Material for their "Presentation"?

They gave a presentation a month back about why we should be nice to and sympathize with the bullies. Most of the teachers were staring at each other, dumbfounded. Not a word about the bullies' victims in their presentation. And then they likened teachers' attempts to discipline the bullies as another form of bullying. It was sickening.

I shudder to think what these "counselors" tell any kids who come to them because they are being bullied. I suppose they tell the kids that it's all their own fault that they are getting bullied.

Where did the material for this presentation come from? Seems like the sort of thing the AFA would produce, since they openly defend bullying and decry all opposition to it as being part of the "homosexual agenda".

[Mariana]

44. Actually, blaming the victim used to be the usual response

to kids who reported bullying back in my day. And I'm not that damn old. In particular I remember the constant sexual harassment and assaults - I was told that if I just ignored them they'd stop, that getting upset just encouraged them, and that I must be doing something to attract their attention. (Sure, I was wearing a C cup in early 7th grade, that's what I was "doing to attract their attention".) Jesus, there was PHYSICAL evidence sometimes, they left bruises!

Bastards. Don't EVEN try to tell me that kids need this kind of "socialization" in preparation for adult life. NOTHING about being bullied as a child or an adolescent has ANYTHING to do with adult life. In adult life, people who commit assault, sexual or otherwise, are arrested and prosecuted and fired from their jobs if they do it at work. I know there are many exceptions, some get away with it, but as a last resort you can quit your job or move house and no one's going to lock you up if you do. But it's a crime to quit school or leave home before a certain age (18 in my state). Normally, though, as an adult these very same actions are taken seriously and dealt with rather harshly. Kids are expected to just accept it.

[bobbolink]

30. And some here wonder why some of us don't like people in the "profession"

It simply sucks up to power..... to the disadvantage of those without power.

[ehrnst]

14. I think they mean: "Because they seek more popularity"

I knew a family of kids that were popular, and not bullies. They were attractive, well adjusted, friendly kids.

The bullies were the social climbers.

[HughBeaumont]

15. LINCOLN SHOT! TITANIC SINKS!

Most of the shitbags who bullied me were well-liked jocks and teacher's kids (also popular), which really left no opening for the kind of retaliation I wanted to give them, because I would have been arrested and sent to juvie, where it would have likely continued.

Like this is some "revelation"? Look who runs corporate America. Same people.

[Myrina]

58. Indeed.

:applause:

[distantearlywarning]

16. Next up: New study indicates water may be wet. n/t

[yodermon]

17. now find the exceptions: the popular kids that *aren't* bullies, and study them

what kind of personality, what kind of parenting, etc, etc

UNLESS bullying is a Defining factor of popularity (ie one can only be popular provided they bully)

[KittyWampus]

28. Thanks for that. It's sad this thread got this far before someone mentioned this.

Not all popular kids are bullies. Why not focus on them in the same study/article?

[vim876]

33. What they'll find

Kids who are popular without being bullies are physically attractive, smart enough but not too smart, at least upper-middle class, and play sports. They tend to be people-pleasers, willing to go along with a crowd. They are also probably usually youngest or next-to-youngest children, and thus have the benefit of awareness of adolescent social norms before beginning adolescence. If you have every other advantage, it's possible to be popular and not be a bully. Not super-common, but possible.

[Heidi]

50. The physically attractive factor cannot be overestimated. And it's not just sports.

It's cheerleading, football queen, basketball queen, and maybe some schools still have "twirlers."

I was a teacher's kid, so I'm very aware that I had a degree of protection that many other kids didn't have, and I still was bullied and especially by boys, though also to a certain degree by "popular girls." Without that layer of protection, I would have been mincemeat like every other overweight, pimply, red-headed smart girl in any small town school in the US.

I had every advantage except the physical advantage.

[notesdev]

18. That gives me a great idea for a movie!

Someone get me Christian Slater, stat!

[Bluenorthwest]

19. A thing like 'popularity' grows in the ways the adults allow

And that is a fact. This study did not even mention what leads to popularity in that school. In almost all American schools the number one factor is sports participation and excellence. If the one school in the study is like most of them, the 'popular' kids are centered around the athletic departments.
They should go look at a school with a different emphasis and see if it is the same. It will not be. There are schools were things other than brute force are given status. How do things work in those situations?
This 'study' acts as if popularity was a natural state, not a side effect of other things, such as good looks, and in school, almost always, sports ability.
Students who become central to the social life of the school are students who need to be taught the skills suitable for that position. Sounds like they are being taught to abuse power when and if you can, by those in charge of teaching them, by their neglect in teaching leadership skills. I hate to break it to the gen pop, but being popular is useful, but you have to use it. Students who are not taught how to make use of social power are not being taught hugely important lessons. Later in life, having the ear of others due to 'popularity' can make a person rich, or get a person elected. But you have to know what to do with the stuff, the energy. Who could teach them? As always parents and the school. Not just 'teachers' but the school as a whole.

[bobbolink]

38. What you have said here is very important, and deserves to be an OP itself.

I wish you had the ear of the researchers!

:yourock:

[vim876]

40. Part of the problem

is that we run our school systems like prisons. People need a sense of control over their lives. If you put people in a mandatory confinement situation, and take all of their personal choices away, including when to use the bathroom, they will develop strict hierarchies. That way, at least some of them can feel in control of something. As far as I know, bullying has gotten worse in the age of zero-tolerance.

[midnight]

25. Kids bully because they can.....

When there are consequences this will stop......

[tabbycat31]

26. In some schools the popular kids are above the law

I was bullied to the point where I was scared to go to school from 4th grade to HS graduation. The perpetrators were all popular. When I complained to the administration about it, I was the one blamed--- similar to asking a rape victim why she wore that dress.

They never got in trouble or anything and more often than not I was the one who got in trouble. My parents did not do a damn thing about it either. If I spoke to them at all about it, I was told to "quit your bitching."

I would have given anything to transfer the hell out of that school district. Reason #1000 why I don't like small school districts where everyone knows each other.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. In my school in the 1960s, the "mean girls" were all from affluent families

They even referred to themselves as "society." (There really were no sports for girls at that point. )

The mean boys were all jocks, and the male teachers joined in ragging on the boys who were not athletic. "What are you, some kind of fem?"

[Arugula Latte]

34. Undoubtedly this is true in a large percentage of cases

However, I have been pleasantly surprised by the experiences my kids have had in public schools. The nasty, backstabbing atmosphere I remember from junior high and high school hasn't emerged (and hopefully won't). I'm sure I don't know all that goes on, but I have heard very few unpleasant anecdotes through the parental grapevine, and it seems there is a big emphasis on acceptance and stopping and preventing bullying.

[vim876]

39. Possible.

It's also possible that your kids and their friends are just not the targets, so you don't see it.

[Arugula Latte]

45. That's true, but I think our community is close enough that I would have heard.

I know the parents of some kids who would be potential targets in many schools (learning disabilities, physical impairments, etc.) and their kids seem to be accepted just as much as any other kids.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. I could have told that to the researchers from personal

experience.

[vim876]

42. Aggression may not

increase status, but I wonder if they looked at whether aggression helped maintain existing status. My bet is if there's a relationship between the two, it's there.

[GeorgeGist]

46. Because they're desperate for attention ...

seems a more likely explanation.

[Little Star]

55. If you had said "more" attention I could agree....

If they are popular they already have plenty of attention. They are greedy for more. jmho

[closeupready]

47. From what I recall, my high school class had few bullies.

There were some, but they were unpopular. And being mean was really frowned upon.

In hindsight, I recall that our civics teacher told us that he had given a finale exam for every class he'd taught for 30 years or so; but that in light of the exceptionally good behavior of our class, he was not going to do it for us for the first time. I didn't realize it then, but I do now, that I think he was saying, "You guys don't need a civics class; you need to be TEACHING civics." Somethings like that. I didn't quite put that all together, until just now, so thanks to the threadstarter. :hi:

[Arkana]

48. Shock and awe, popular kids are self-absorbed douchenozzles.

Thank you, TIME, for telling me something I've known since I was like six.

[stuntcat]

52. people don't change that much after they've grown up either

I've seen too much of people 20 years older than me acting like selfish bossy brats.

Also I've seen quite enough play-ground mentality among adults online *ahem* *cough cough*

[vim876]

56. Yeah, but...

If you choose the right career, you can mostly avoid contact with them. And if one of them does become a problem, as an adult, you can leave.

[stuntcat]

57. true that

That's just what a friend was telling me the other day! About how at least when we're grown ups we can avoid the horrible ones.

[MilesColtrane]

61. Not that surprising to me...

Social status is a form of power, and the more power someone has over another the easier it is to abuse them.

Social aggression may have served our primate ancestors well come feeding time, but has long past served its purpose with us, and may well be our ultimate downfall.

[RagAss]

63. Popular until they get their face busted up. I knew lots of bullies who fell from grace !

Many were tough guys in middle school...but nature cut their growth at 5'8 or 5'9. High School was payback time for some of them...And yes....Me at 6'2 240 lb and the memory of an elephant turned many a life around for the better.

[TwilightGardener]

64. Makes sense. My son has been bullied, and it was always the popular athletic kids

who were doing it. You need confidence in your social status--and in the lack of status of your victim--to successfully push that kid around.

[LanternWaste]

65. he few bullies were had in middle school were the quiet, introverted guys...

Not that I question the conclusion of the article...

My own anecdotal experience was quite different. The few bullies were had in middle school were the weirdly quiet, introverted guys who never spoke much about anything to anyone until the would simply blow up for no apparent reason.

High school came around and I guess they figured they were out of their depth as they kept out of trouble until their sr. years. Then they began it again, by by that time, the kids they had picked o four years before were now on the wrestling and football teams, and subsequently took care of the problem in two dramatic instances after school.

Years passed, and I found out one of the bullies was beaten regularly by his father and committed suicide two years after graduation. Sad all the way around.

[DeadEyeDyck]

66. Being a bi-racial military brat born in Germany,

I was a target from an early age. But my Dad put a stop to it. In fourth grade, he enrolled me in taekwondo instruction and my life changed quickly. My sis took lessons also. I was a black belt by 8th grade and was never in a school fight since starting karate. I give credit to martial arts for much of my self confidence.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the world is not always a friendly place. I would encourage every parent to provide their kids with defensive training. We teach our kids math to survive. We also need to teach them to survive.

[LanternWaste]

67. I survived by simply making jokes

I survived by simply making jokes as he was about to take me down. I developed sarcastic and caustic humor at an early age and used it to get myself out of trouble as often as I used to to get myself into trouble.

Thinking skills and problem solving got me put of more jams in my life than fighting ever did-- which is also part and parcel of the survival skills I would imagine. But hey... whatever works, right?