The scary story about Muslims who want to ban PE and Music. It is a deliberate misrepresentation.

[TheBigotBasher]

Hate site Hillbuzz can not keep away from the disgusting Islamophobia.

To get their bigots bigoting around in their white sheets Dujan ran this article sourcing the Winnipeg Free Press of Canada. This is the story they ran, using a tiny excerpt of the original source article.

Muslim whining alert: It appears that some new Muslim immigrants to Canada have some demands. They don’t want their kids participating in PE or music education.

Come on Canada…have a backbone and tell these ungrateful immigrants to acclimate or get out. Period.

(from the Winnipeg Free Press)

WINNIPEG — A dozen Muslim families who recently arrived in Canada have told Winnipeg’s Louis Riel School Division that they want their children excused from compulsory elementary school music and coed physical education programs for religious and cultural reasons.
“This is one of our realities in Manitoba now, as a result of immigration,” said superintendent Terry Borys. “We were faced with some families who were really adamant about this. Music was not part of the cultural reality.”

I have 2 words for them…

Hell no!

It was of course picked up by the ususal hate sites such as Jihad Watch.

They forgot to include this bit for some reason, which also comes from the original article in he Winnipeg Free Press.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/no-co-ed-phys-ed-music-muslims-115354939.html

However, a local Muslim leader says there is no reason for little kids to be held out of music or phys-ed classes on religious and cultural grounds.

That shouldn't be happening, said Shahina Siddiqui, executive director of the Islamic Social Services.

"Who is advising them? My first concern would be, who are these new immigrants talking to?" said Siddiqui. "This is the first time I am hearing this -- I'm not very happy about it."

Siddiqui said there is no problem with elementary school children taking phys-ed together: "No, not with little kids under the age of puberty."

Some middle school and senior high students have asked not to mix genders in phys-ed, and they have been accommodated by schools, she said.

Now it is not up to me to suggest that this somewhat relevant part was left out to stir up hate and bigotry, a Conservatives4Palin front pager would never do that surely? The comments on that DickSpuzz blog do however leave food for thought.



Crossposted from http://thebigotbasher.com/2011/02/06/more-lies-and-hate-from-conservatives4palin-front-pager-kevin-dujan/

[madrchsod]

1. interesting... one of the foundations of modern american music

can be traced back to islamic music.

oh well never underestimate the stupidity of people

[Meeker Morgan]

13. Thee is no "Islamic music"

There is music from cultures that are nominally Muslim, but they are doing something their religion prohibits.

[social_critic]

17. Mohammed fell under the influence of Jews, but got confused

As you probably know, Mohammed appears to have been heavily influenced by Jews and Arian Christians living in Medina. Jewish rabis recommend one do not play musical instruments during religious holidays. Let me quote:

"Rabbenu Hananel, a 10th century commentator from North Africa, explains that the prohibition of smacking, dancing, or clapping is derived from a larger prohibition of excessive noisemaking on Shabbat--and extends this reason to explain why musical instruments are also forbidden. (R. Hananel on BT Shabbat 18a-b). Though noisemaking does not fall under any of the 39 categories of forbidden work on Shabbat, noise runs counter to the restful spirit of Shabbat."

This comes from "Instruments on Shabbat and Holiday - Are they permitted?" By Joshua Rabin.

We can trace most of Muslim lore and legal code to Jewish texts, or their derivative Christian Arrian texts. And Muslims accept they are a derivative of Christianity. This is why they consider Jesus a Prophet from Allah.

Regarding doing something their religion prohibits, I'd like to remind you there isn't a single Jew on earth who truly follows Mosaic Law, and there's no Christian who follows all of Christian law either (even though it's a lot simpler). So let's all relax and go to church knowing we are all sinners.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. Bullshit

I suppose you also believe Christianity prohibits dancing - after all, it IS in the bible. :eyes:

[dkf]

2. Link?

[TheBigotBasher]

4. Updated

Thanks. You will note that the newspaper closed their comments because they gt a whole load of hatebuzzards shitting on them.

[dkf]

3. Oops. Double post.

[Turborama]

5. "They forgot to include this bit for some reason" Sounds familiar.

VERY familiar.

[MH1]

8. the bit they forgot to include demonstrates not ALL Muslims are the problem

BUT it does not deny that there might be a problem with that specific group and who they're talking to.

[Turborama]

9. "THE PROBLEM" "A PROBLEM"?

What is this, Medieval Europe? Early 20th Century Austria?

[MH1]

16. HELL YEAH, "a problem"!

Misogyny is a problem. Insisting that kids be taught misogyny is a problem. Enforced separation of genders is misogynistic.

Look who else looks at it as a problem - the very 'good Muslim' who is being quoted as if saying 'nothing to see here':

"Who is advising them? My first concern would be, who are these new immigrants talking to?" said Siddiqui. "This is the first time I am hearing this -- I'm not very happy about it."

Siddiqui said there is no problem with elementary school children taking phys-ed together: "No, not with little kids under the age of puberty."

(But after puberty it is a problem? :puke:)


Fundamentalist 'Muslim' assholes are as much A PROBLEM as are fundamentalist 'Christian' assholes. I don't care at all what religion one claims to be - keep your religion out of the public square, out of the education system, and do not raise your kids that women and men should be accorded different rights.

And yes, I'd say some people want us to go back to medieval times in the treatment of women. And I have a HUGE PROBLEM with that.

[TheBigotBasher]

20. Sorry to get in the way of your rant

and I am anti the God Bothery types as much as anyone but aren't separate sex PE lessons normal for those over about 11?

[dkf]

24. Huh? Separate sex PE lessons? Do we have those?

I don't recall that.

[dsc]

25. No

They were back when I was in school but certainly not now. We have coed gym classes now.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. Not where I teach.

In fact, I've never heard of coed gym classes in grades 7 thru 12.

[dsc]

41. I guess it depends on the meaning of coed

but even mine were separated but in the same gym but the school I work at has coed pe classes.

[Turborama]

31. Are you saying that "not ALL Muslims are *****the problem****" but most are?

Or what?

[MH1]

32. No. please re-read my post.

It has nothing to do with the name of the religion being claimed.

[Turborama]

38. Exact Quote: "the bit they forgot to include demonstrates not ALL Muslims are the problem"

How does that sentence have nothing to do with Muslims when that's EXACTLY what you wrote?

[MH1]

43. Re-read the explanatory post which is the one you replied to.

Just out of curiosity, what is the guy in your sig pic throwing?

[Turborama]

45. I'm quoting what you said and what you still haven't answered my question about.

Also, my agnostic parents sent me to an all boys school, does that make them "misogynists"?

"Enforced separation of genders is misogynistic"

You need to look up what "misogyny" means before you carry on. Seriously.

I don't know what he was throwing, I didn't take that photo. Maybe an American teargas cannister back at Mubarak's brutal police?

What's that got to do with anything anyway?

[MH1]

46. I did answer your question.

You seem to be being purposely obtuse here. I am done with it.

And I am drawing attention to your sig pic which seems to support violence.

[Turborama]

50. Here's my edit in case you miss it...

Also, my agnostic parents sent me to an all boys school, does that make them "misogynists"?

"Enforced separation of genders is misogynistic"

You need to look up what "misogyny" means before you carry on. Seriously.

That was the edit, now for a new comment.

"I am done with it" - Good.

My pic (which was what the TV station at the time made available) ***represents*** the long overdue revolution against a brutal dictator.

Do you ***support*** the revolution in Egypt or not?

[MH1]

51. I do not support violent revolution. Do you?

[Turborama]

52. It depends.

History has shown us that sometimes it's necessary and sometimes it isn't.

Nice deflection, BTW.

[JackRiddler]

64. So you're against America, are you? I figured as much!

[JackRiddler]

65. The US was founded in a violent revolution...

The Egyptian uprising is against a violent regime.

For the sake of consistency, I presume you oppose war generally?

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. After puberty, kids in the US are in separate P.E. classes

I suppose you will now claim that is misogyny.

[Rage for Order]

54. Not necessarily

Kids in my area participate in PE together. They have separate locker rooms of course, but the class itself is co-ed.

[fishwax]

57. I never had separate P.E. classes -- co-ed in junior high and high school

I don't think it's at all uncommon. I've also heard of schools that separate for P.E. classes, but not as frequently. I'd be interested to know what the breakdown is ...

[TheBigotBasher]

15. Is is a "problem" for individuals

to object to PE and music?

It is not a scary Muslim take over of education in Canada, unlike of course the situation in the US, where Christian fundamentalists in Texas have been able to pervert the whole curriculum for the US.

[MH1]

18. it's a problem if they expect the public school or society to change to suit them

they can enroll their kids in private school that fits their needs.

But if they decide to make a legislative issue of it - as has happened here with fundamentalist 'Christians' - it becomes a problem. Potentially a huge problem.

And it sucks for kids to be treated that way.

(Oh and the objection isn't to PE - which would be bad enough - it's the idea that girls and boys would do PE together. )

[MH1]

19. Please note from the op:

"Who is advising them? My first concern would be, who are these new immigrants talking to?" said Siddiqui. "This is the first time I am hearing this -- I'm not very happy about it."

To me that suggests Siddiqui is concerned that this extends beyond individuals. "Who is advising them? ... I'm not very happy about it."

[MH1]

6. "who are these new immigrants talking to?" - the 'good' Muslim asks

So, even a Muslim leader IS concerned that a group of Muslims is being influenced in a bad direction.

Just as there are Quakers and Unitarians and UCC here, and there are also science-denying fundamentalists here, there are different variants of Islam, and some of them are to be worried about.

Something to think about: in the US, out of Quakers, Unitarians, UCC, and any other 'good' Christians, vs. b.s. crazy fundamentalists - who seems to carry the greater political influence?

[Turborama]

7. K&R & Thanks for the bashing of this scaremongering bigotry!

It should be wholeheartedly condemned and I can't believe some people I usually think better of have fallen for it.

As I said before...


It's a dark side of "human nature" that demonizes and dehumanizes the 'other', unfortunately.

But I didn't think it was "DU's nature".

If this sort of scaremongering shit continues and is allowed to stay, I leave.

A bit of perspective:

[MH1]

10. "No, not with little kids under the age of puberty."

Siddiqui said there is no problem with elementary school children taking phys-ed together: "No, not with little kids under the age of puberty."

But by all means, they must be separated if there is any chance of contact after puberty.

[Leithan]

22. Are you saying that's a bad thing?

If so, I strongly disagree. Kids are already being oversexualized in our society: Maybe Canada has a better idea.

[treestar]

11. The individual parents are still asking for it, though

We had separate gym when we got to junior high school - I think it was co-ed only in elementary school, so that request doesn't seem that extreme to me as I think my schools were typical. Also we didn't have to take music after 8th grade - it was elective after that.

But what Canada does I don't know.

[TheBigotBasher]

14. That is individuals

not scary Muslims trying to take over Canadian schools. I bet there are similar requests from Christian fundamentalists.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jefferson23]

21. Look at that, now the Canadians can breathe and stop running for their lives

from the scary Muslims.



Thanks for posting and exposing the bullshit.

[Mudoria]

39. What bullshit was exposed?

Did those parents ask the school system or not? Seems they did. The remarks in the OP here are statements from Islamic leaders saying there was no reason for it. They did ask tho so the basic premise is true.

[Jefferson23]

44. Are you serious, they asked so therefore the basic premise is true?

Read again what they asked about and why anyone should be concerned about it is ridiculous.

edited for clarity.

[toddaa]

23. Indignation is not nearly as fun, when you have to wait for all the facts

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Codeine]

28. DU ignores all Muslim bigotry far too often,

or makes cheap excuses for it.

[JoePhilly]

37. Are all catholics bigoted against homosexuality?

There are religions, and then there are people.

And not all members of any religion (particularly religions with the broad diversity of interpretation as the "big three") can be painted with a single brush.

Although that is a popular sport.

[slackmaster]

40. The Catholic religion as a whole is often held accountable on DU for the homophobia of some members

I've seen it referred to literally as a "hate group" on numerous occasions.

[JoePhilly]

55. And a nice chunk of the right wing calls it a cult.

Both side love to play the game.

[slackmaster]

56. True for the extreme right, e.g. the KKK.

I think extremists of all stripes should be taken out and shot.

















:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Turborama]

53. Death to gay people is a policy for Christians in some countries

Americans’ Role Seen in Uganda Anti-Gay Push

By JEFFREY GETTLEMAN
Published: January 3, 2010
KAMPALA, Uganda — Last March, three American evangelical Christians, whose teachings about “curing” homosexuals have been widely discredited in the United States, arrived here in Uganda’s capital to give a series of talks.
Full article: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world/africa/04uganda.html?_r=1



On edit:

Here are the religion statistics for Uganda: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Uganda

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dappleganger]

63. Well so is the Catholic church, yet they have an entire tax-payer funded school system in Canada.

As do the protestants in several provinces.

[Overseas]

27. K&R ! //nt

[Nye Bevan]

29. To be fair, they did say "a dozen Muslim families" when they quoted from the article.

It's not surprising that not all Muslims agree with this. Cat Stevens would probably not endorse the ban on music, for example.

[madmom]

30. When my kids were in school, they had fellow students who were,

I think, LDS, they did not approve of music, dancing, partying of any kind.These kids were taken home when ever something like this occurred. What's the big deal if they don't want there kids to be involved in this sort of thing. I remember when EVERY school kid got fish on Fridays because it was a catholic thing.
More proof to me that ALL organized religion sucks!

[TeeYiYi]

48. Not LDS... I grew up in Utah...

... and there were no such restrictions on music, dancing or partying. Mormons don't drink alcohol or caffeine but that didn't create any problems in the school environment.

You must be thinking of a different religion.

TYY

[dionysus]

61. you might be thinking of jehoviah's witnesses

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Thank you. I was repulsed that this story was not only posted here

but got so many comments that slammed Muslims.

FYI, I have taught many Muslim children and not a one has had a parent who complained about Music class at school. I realize that's not scientific, but it would stand to reason that if this was true, I would have had at least ONE Muslim parent complain.

[supernova]

47. The degree to which conservative propoganda

works, I think is what this story shows. If they can get their inflammatory version of the story out first, it sticks and people don't whant to hear the real story.

Look how well it worked here at DU yesterday.

[Bluebear]

60. kick

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fishwax]

49. who was saying they wanted to ban music and PE

the thread I saw on DU (which linked to the Winnipeg article) said that a set of parents wanted their children excused, and it appears that the hate blogs you talk about did the same. I'm not at all surprised, though, that the sources you mention would obscure the rest of the story.

[snagglepuss]

66. You are mistating the issues. A dozen families want their children excused

from elementary school music and elementary coed physical education programs. I personally find that a repugnent request. I have less than zero resepect for lunatics of want to deny children access to music and to coed playtime. The fact that local Muslim leaders are surprised and upset is meaningless because as we all know Islam isn't monolithic so views among Mulsims differ widely.


Those religious zealots have the option of private religious schools, if that is not option than they are ones who need to accomodate.