Crisis in Egypt Tests U.S. Ties With Israel

[chimpymustgo]

By HELENE COOPER and MARK LANDLER
Published: February 4, 2011

WASHINGTON —
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Israeli government officials started out urging the Obama administration to back Mr. Mubarak, administration officials said, and were initially angry at Mr. Obama for publicly calling on the Egyptian leader to agree to a transition.

“The Israelis are saying, après Mubarak, le deluge,” said Daniel Levy, a former Israeli peace negotiator. And that, in turn, Mr. Levy said, “gets to the core of what is the American interest in this. It’s Israel. It’s not worry about whether the Egyptians are going to close down the Suez Canal, or even the narrower terror issue. It really can be distilled down to one thing, and that’s Israel.”

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But administration officials must also balance support for Israel against the real desire among many Egyptians — and others on the Arab street — for an end to the Israeli occupation in the West Bank. “The situation tends to highlight Israel’s strategic value to the United States as a stable and unequivocal ally in a very unstable region,” said Michael B. Oren, Israel’s ambassador to Washington. He added: “The situation does reinforce the need for security guarantees, regarding a future Palestinian state, because we see how the current situation in the Middle East can change very rapidly.”

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But many American Jews are also debating the irony of Israel, which long promoted itself as the only democracy in its neighborhood, now voicing concerns about the birth of a democracy next door. And that that democratic movement is happening in Egypt — with all of its historic ties to the enslavement of the Jewish people — is being picked apart in conversations within American Jewish communities.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/05/world/middleeast/05israel.html?hp

[PCIntern]

1. Imagine! A debate!

wow...who'd a thunk that anyone is ever allowed to debate, discuss and have varied opinions on anything to do with the Middle East? It's all been decided here, on DU! I've been told by many that Israel just needs to STFU. Except there was no abbreviation.

I, for one, am virulently pro-Zionist and have all kinds of opinions as to what's gonna happen here over time, since I lived thru the "student-led" Iranian Revolution and look how well THAT turned out. Yeah, I know it's not the same, it's never 'the same', but what is? Jury's out on this one, folks, and if you think for one minute that the radicals don't have their eyes on THIS prize, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn, or a Dam in Aswan to sell you.

Fact of the matter, is that what they call "Democracy", what you call "Democracy", what Karl Rove calls "Democracy" are three entirely separate entities, so to say that there's going to be a "Democracy" doesn't mean anything AFAIC, until I actually see it.

[chimpymustgo]

2. How about we let this be about EGYPT - and not ISRAEL. Freedom.

[PCIntern]

3. What?

Isn't this article about Israel and American Jewry?

"Freedom"? Like Democracy, it has many connotations and meanings. Think they're going to adopt the American Constitution anytime soon?

[chimpymustgo]

4. That's exactly the point. We are riveted by the brave struggle for freedom by the Egyptian people.

Whose "interests" should be paramount?

[chimpymustgo]

5. And maybe they WILL adopt a Constitution that contains many of the precepts of ours.

Do you think they aren't capable?

[PCIntern]

6. What does it matter what I think...?

What matters is that for thousands of years, this region has been in terrible turmoil. Do you think, for what THAT's worth, that it's gonna be OK all of a sudden? I remember this type of thinking during the "Pan-Arabism" era of Nasser and even before him. Let's all wait and see...

Remember Tito? People didn't realize how skilled he was until he was gone...

But so many folk here in the USA know all the answers...

[chimpymustgo]

7. I think people should have the right to self-determination.

[PCIntern]

10. ...and what does that mean?

Do WE have the right to philosophically correct self-determination? Really? You think so? Since when? Since 2000? Since Ike's farewell speech? Since the group which assassinated Lincoln? Assassinated Kennedy?

[Kurovski]

8. An interesting piece from the brookings institute:

"...Can America work with an Egypt where the Ikhwan is part of a transition or even a new government?

The short answer is it is not our decision to make. Egyptians will decide the outcome, not Washington. We should not try to pick Egyptians' rulers. Every time we have done so, from Vietnam’s generals to Afghanistan’s Hamid Karzai, we have had buyer’s remorse. But our interests are very much involved so we have a great stake in the outcome. Understanding the Brotherhood is vital to understanding our options.

The Israelis find themselves in the very unpleasant position of having a huge stake in the outcome of what happens in Egypt and absolutely no ability to influence the course of events, except to do harm by foolish statements or actions. No wonder a former Israeli ambassador to Cairo said this week that “I am very much afraid that wouldn’t be as committed to peace with Israel and would be bad for Israel.”"

http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2011/0128_egypt_riedel.aspx

[malaise]

9. Egyptians will decide the outcome, not Washington

Ditto

[chimpymustgo]

11. The title of that article: Don't Fear Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood

Bruce Riedel, Senior Fellow, Foreign Policy, Saban Center for Middle East Policy
The Daily Beast

JANUARY 28, 2011 —
The Jasmine Revolution in Tunisia has sent a shock wave through the Arab world. Never before has the street toppled a dictator. Now Egypt is shaking, Hosni Mubarak’s 30-year-old regime faces its most serious threat ever. The prospect of change in Egypt inevitably raises questions about the oldest and strongest opposition movement in the country, the Muslim Brotherhood, also known as Ikhwan. Can America work with an Egypt where the Ikhwan is part of a transition or even a new government?

The short answer is it is not our decision to make. Egyptians will decide the outcome, not Washington. We should not try to pick Egyptians' rulers. Every time we have done so, from Vietnam’s generals to Afghanistan’s Hamid Karzai, we have had buyer’s remorse. But our interests are very much involved so we have a great stake in the outcome. Understanding the Brotherhood is vital to understanding our options.

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http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2011/0128_egypt_riede...

[here_is_to_hope]

12. Can I tell you what I told Israel?

Hm? Can I?
No?

Check your passport, where it says citizen of, what does yours say?

Israel and the US need to both shut the fuck up.

Makes me sick, the cheerleaders of opression and apartheid and no I won't be able to see your reply so save it for the stupid.

This country sometimes...

[chimpymustgo]

13. "Cheerleaders of oppression and apartheid."