For 9 months police refused to release this tape of officers beating teen

[TalkingDog]

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/13_undercover&id=7936228

Every patrol cop in this story has been told the video is out. The mayor wouldn't let you see it -- or the district attorney or the police chief.

We've all been told it's graphic and disturbing, and we remind you it is, as we show the video so many Houstonians have wanted to see.

It was an afternoon in March when a security camera captures the end of a Houston police pursuit. Burglar Chad Holley tries to make a run for it, but he's clipped by a police car and falls on the ground. He clearly puts his arms out in the surrender pose then folds his arms before police move in.


I have not seen it. I will not watch it. I can't deal with violence. But people need to know what happened, so this is what I can do.

[Dawson Leery]

1. The coppers can get away with anything.

Also, shame on the worthless Mayor for suppressing this footage.

[KansDem]

2. I've never understood the "need" for police officers to "punish" suspects who flee...

...especially when they give themselves up by lying on the ground, face down with hands outstretched.

They were on him like a pack of jackals on a wounded gazelle.

Reminds me of this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn4bjJ01qOk&feature=fvst

[hfojvt]

5. perhaps this will help explain it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight-or-flight_response

"His theory states that animals react to threats with a general discharge of the sympathetic nervous system, priming the animal for fighting or fleeing."

"Males are more likely to respond to an emergency situation with aggression (fight)."

It's basically a human response. Perhaps they should train them in more appropriate ways of releasing the stress - striking the ground, striking a car seat, etc.

[Recursion]

6. Have you ever had your life threatened?

Cops chase after people not knowing if that person is about to turn with a gun and kill them.

They need training that they're not getting about better ways to deal with that fear and stress. But the reaction is certainly understandable.

[KansDem]

7. But in both the videos of my OP, the suspect was lying face-down with arms outstretched...

It was obvious they were giving up. Why kick and punch them in the head and body?

[Recursion]

8. Again, how often is your life threatened?

Yes, dispassionately it's pretty obvious; when you're sprinting up having spent the last several minutes in intense physical activity and afraid for your life, you're likely to respond to that stress very badly. Which is why officers need more training in this.

[JuniperLea]

12. Reasons are NOT good excuses!

Did you watch the video? This guy was flat on his stomach and not at threat to anyone. What they did was barbaric.

[Recursion]

15. You chase a guy who might shoot you for five blocks and respond the "right" way (nt)

[lolly]

20. It's the Right way, not the "Right" way.

Don't put it in quotes. The right way is the way they are PAID to do it.

They're paid to respond professionally.

If it's OK to just beat the crap out of suspects, why hire, train, and pay professionals?

Just grab the baddest, meanest guys you can find in a biker bar and tell them you'll pay a bounty for every suspect they catch.

[niyad]

26. he was clipped with a police car--doesn't sound like they chased him on foot.

houston police, eh? anybody remember the joe campos torres case? houston police have a long history of violence to suspects.


for those who are not familiar with the case:

Joe Campos Torres was a 23-year-old Vietnam Veteran had been arrested at an Eastside bar for disorderly conduct where Six police officers took Torres to a spot called “The Hole” next to Buffalo Bayou and beat him.

The officers then took Torres to the city jail, where they were ordered to take him to the hospital. Instead of taking Torres to the hospital like they were told, the officers brought him back to the banks of Buffalo Bayou, where he either jumped or was pushed into the water. Torres’ body was found two days later.

Officers Terry Denson and Steven Orlando were tried on state murder charges. They were convicted of negligent homicide and got one year probation. Denson, Orlando and Officer Joseph Janish were later convicted of federal civil rights violations. They served only nine months in prison.

The sentences were the final match to a powder keg that exploded in Moody Park.<3>
....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hourick/moodyparkriot

by the way, this little bit left out so much--torres was handcuffed and pushed into the bayou. the officers "wanted to see if he could swim with his hands behind his back".

there was no real investigation until the DOJ was finally brought in.

[ThomCat]

27. Are you really trying to claim that this is a valid excuse?

Really? Police officers are allowed to brutalize officers because they are stressed out from chasing someone?

That then give them permission to brutalize anyone and everyone they chase! :wtf:

Firefighters and Electricians have much more dangerous jobs. They are statistically much more likely to die on the job. Does that mean that they have permission to beat and kill people because of the stress that they might die on their jobs? Is that what you're saying.

If someone told you that a firefighter had permission to beat the shit out of anyone he wanted as a perk of his job because of the stress that he might die on the job, you'd find that pretty damned ridiculous. So why isn't that ridiculous for cops too?

You don't respond to stress by beating and brutalizing people. Procedures and Training are supposed to be there to make sure that every cop is able to act correctly even under stress. If they can't, then they should be removed from the job. Anyone who can't handle the stress, and has to resort to violence because of their stress should be fired immediately at the very least, and probably arrested for abuse of authority, assault, or whatever else is appropriate.

This idea of yours that chasing someone is a valid excuse for brutality is total Bull Shit!

[Recursion]

29. No, but I think saying it's not understandable is silly (nt)

[JuniperLea]

36. It is understandable...

How some people would do that... but those people shouldn't be police officers or carry guns. Self-control is not out of the question in these cases.

[Horse with no Name]

37. As a nurse

I have been hit, pinched, bit, knocked down and assaulted by patients.
Some of these patients were infected with harmful germs.
Not once have I ever OVERREACTED.

These police OVERREACTED and anyone making excuses for it probably is cut from the same cloth.

[JuniperLea]

35. I could do just that

I have damn fine control of my emotions, and I don't inflict physical pain on other human beings. Maybe it's just me.

[LoZoccolo]

13. How long have you been so poor that burglary looked like a viable option?

Two can play that game.

[Recursion]

16. Well, no. We don't have to be so predictable

Your question is important but not remotely related to the discussion now.

[rhett o rick]

30. So if we havent had our life threatened we cant voice an opinion?

The cops should not be allowed to kill people that dont do what they say. Just because they are "not knowing if that person is about to turn with a gun.." isnt enough to kill that person. Cops have killed people because they were fleeing in their car. In Seattle a alcoholic wood carver was killed in cold blood, that was no threat to anyone. Cops break into the wrong house and kill children and get away with no consequences. How many people have been shot while laying on the ground. One in Oakland had his hands handcuffed behind him. After major public outcry he got convicted of minor charges.

[KansasVoter]

32. LOL....are you serious? Wake up!

[Horse with no Name]

38. The guy committed a BURGLARY, not a ROBBERY

not sure about you...but the definitions I heard for these two very different crimes would seem to matter in this case?

[Prometheus Bound]

40. I've had my life threatened by a drunk with a knife to a girl's throat and then at me.

My goal was to get him to release the girl. It never occurred to me to beat the living crap out of him once I had the advantage.

And my only physical training was long-distance running and basketball. You'd think these cops would be cooler than I was.

Don't fucking defend these bullies. They're just an embarrassment to the human race.

[rhett o rick]

34. It's one of the benefits of the job for many. nm

[duhneece]

3. I used to think the cameras of Big Brother were a bad thing

Now, I think we citizens should be able to have recorded every interaction with any kind of cops. Every interview, traffic stop, interaction or confession should be recorded.

[jdp349]

9. an interesting point

As long as the public has access to the footage I'm in agreement.

With everyone now possessing a video camera on their phone a lot more of these transgressions are being captured. I can't believe however that in response the state in some instances has moved to make recording police officers illegal.:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[rhett o rick]

10. There is one problem, no one will do anything about it. Police brutality is increasing and nothing

is being done.

[duhneece]

23. I disagree. If nothing was being done...

If nothing was being done when pictures 'escape' to the public, there would be no reason for the cops to want to make filming them illegal. Seeing pics of Rodney King to this young man being brutalized by cops CAN make a difference, especially if we phone, write, protest when we see them.

[rhett o rick]

24. I see case after case of officers beating or killing citizens with no consequences.

Every day it gets worse not better. Tell me what's going to make a difference.

[Supply Side Jesus]

28. uh huh...

ok...

[rhett o rick]

33. Is that your best? See the link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x349002

[lolly]

21. Why do you think they're trying to make it illegal?

Police have been arresting people for videotaping them in action.

It's only supposed to go one way, apparently. The state gets to monitor everything we do, but we can't watch it.

[shanti]

4. shameful!

:mad:

[JuniperLea]

11. There's no fucking excuse for that bullshit!

I watched about 20 seconds... the guy was hit by a squad car and it looked like his legs were broken at that point. There's no excuse for half a dozen or more big guys to jump on him and kick him! I don't give a flying rat's ass what the emotions are, what the fears are... that's fucking bullshit. If someone can't control themselves, they have no business being a fucking cop. There was no threat whatsoever! Looked like the guy was in bad shape before these creatures got to him.

This is horrible. God help us.

[ceile]

14. Props to Ch 13!

Misdemeanor my ass! That young man can and should sue for...well, shit where to start. Grievous bodily harm, 1st degree assault, attempted murder. I am surprised that he was able to stand after that beating. Rodney King anyone?

[Dawson Leery]

17. Shame on those who are making excuses for the cops.

[Mojeoux]

19. Agreement!!!! nt

[Brilliantrocket]

18. He got convicted of burglary.

Is the beating justified? Probably not seeing as he was already hit by a car. One hit to ensure that he wasn't resisting should have been enough. If a suspect flees they need to be treated roughly. If they're desperate enough to run, who knows what else they might do.

[lolly]

22. No

If a suspect flees, he/she needs to be treated with suspicion, and in whatever manner is most likely to stop him, keep him from harming anyone, and restrain him.

Hitting a downed, immobile suspect is not for safety; it's to give the police officers their jollies.

[RandomThoughts]

25. I agree people should not enjoy that stuff.

I don't think most police do, most of them would probably just go to a bar and have a beer to have fun. Conversation with friends, music, stuff like that. That assumes they have beer and travel money of coarse.

[fishwax]

31. his conviction is hardly relevant to what the cops did while he was lying face down on the ground

submitting to arrest and then subdued by other police officers.

[Horse with no Name]

39. Except for the small detail

If you commit burglary, there was never a threat to person--only property.

Important and distinct difference between robbery and burglary that some are deliberately missing.

http://www.quizlaw.com/criminal_law/what_is_the_difference_betwe.php
burglary is the intent to break into a building without consent with the intent of committing a crime inside (including theft). Burglary is a specific intent crime, requiring that the burglar knowingly intend to commit a crime while inside. A person does not have to forcibly enter a building to commit burglary; going in through an unlocked window or door can still fulfill the “breaking” element of burglary.

robbery is another specific intent crime, requiring both theft and a form of violence or threat of violence used to deprive someone of their property. The most common example of a robbery is a convenience store holdup, in which a robber threatens to shoot a cashier unless the cashier hands over the loot.