WTF is wrong with Americans?

[kpete]

WTF is wrong with Americans?
by wannabe hermit
Wed Feb 02, 2011 at 11:56:06 PM PST

...................

While the Egyptian and Tunisian people got angry in response to their elites engaging in extravagant luxuries while life deteriorated for everyone else, Americans treat the announcement of record Wall Street bonuses for 2010 as not even newsworthy.

In 2008, the American people, outraged by 8 years of pointless wars, tax breaks and giveaways to the rich, and declines in wages and employment, voted out the ruling party in favor of a candidate who promised change.

Was that the last gasp for the dignity of the American people? Today, all the key foreign and economic policies of the previous administration remain in place, but there are no protests, no challenge to the President from the left.

While the Egyptian people are fighting off hired thugs in the streets of Cairo in order to have a shot at a decent, fair, democratic society, we here in the U.S. are sitting on our asses as America turns into a corrupt, bankrupt, Third-world oligarchy. What the fuck is wrong with us?

the rest:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2011/2/3/940880/-WTF-is-wrong-with-Americans

[mmonk]

1. The illusion a pendulum in America is guaranteed.

The pendulum is broken.

[dkf]

2. Maybe when we have to wait in line for hours for our loaf of bread we too will rise in anger.

You ever wonder why they don't get pissed at us for creating an economy out of their oil?

[Gaedel]

37. Oil?

The problem that Egypt and Tunisia have is that they have a lot of people and no oil.

[dkf]

45. They have some oil and control of the Suez Canal...

But I'm thinking of the Middle East in general.

We are wealthy because we use their oil. Without oil, we don't have any of our industries that built this economy. And the greediness of our rich people benefits all Americans.

[robinlynne]

48. all Americans? read up.

[SammyWinstonJack]

146. Crazy, eh?

:crazy: :silly:

[bvar22]

170. "the greediness of our rich people benefits all Americans."

Reagan said the same thing!!!!
It trickles down, so its ALL GOOD!!!
Hooray for RICH PEOPLE!!!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. A sort of brainwashing.

We have been taught the myth of American exceptionalism for so long that it's hard for people to accept even the possibility that there could be something seriously wrong with our society. However difficult things might be for us, it's OK because it's supposed to be that way because this is America, which never does anything wrong. So instead of demonstrating we just grab our ankles.

[Blue_In_AK]

41. That's my thought, too, Velveteen.

The American people are completely brainwashed. Haven't we always been told that America is the greatest country in the world, and that despite our problems, there's nowhere else in the world where people are any better off?

[BobbyBoring]

157. Yes

It started in grade school when we learned our history. Cowboy good, Indian bad. American good, Commie bad. We don't have an education system, it's an indoctrination system.

Some have the ability to believe what they see and experience opposed to what they were told. Those with that ability must begin leading the sheep to stampede instead of going to the slaughter house.

That's what happening in the ME now. If they can do it, so can we.

Maybe everyone needs to watch "Capitalism, a love story" all day long instead of Okra and Dancing with Delay.

[femrap]

42. I agree....

at least in the Old Soviet Union, when the gov't told them something, they didn't believe it. Here...no critical thinking skills and so many distractions/Circus.

Alas.

[Leithan]

156. Aldous Huxley called it "soma."

What, you can't send your kids to college? Look! LOOK! There's two gay people over there getting MARRIED!!!

[laylah]

85. ...

and let "them" drive.

[kath]

111. +1000.

That "American exceptionalism" myth is very powerful indeed, and the brainwashing has very powerfully taken hold in the vast, vast majority of the population. That, and the lack of any critical thinking skills in most Murkans.

[Horse with no Name]

152. The brainwashing starts early

:(

[Kalun D]

4. Sedated

Fluoride in the water, aspartame in the food. Widespread use of pharmaceuticals. Junk food diet, working 2 jobs so barely enough time to even follow the news.

90 percent get their "news" from the Orwellian corporate owned television so they don't even know what's really going on.

[originalpckelly]

5. I believe they're trying to tamper with our precious bodily fluids, Mandrake.

OPE
POE
EPO

Hey, EPA is pretty damn close to EPO, right?

[Pacifist Patriot]

11. Okay, I'm going to get my hind quarters handed to me for this one, but...

I'm going to suggest something in addition to sedation (with which I agree).

We're educated into complacency. Our public education system is rooted in not questioning authority. And please folks, this is not a diatribe against school teachers. I greatly admire the men and women who try diligently to provide our children with an education in a system that hampers their efforts at every turn.

Additionally, most religious organizations have a hierarchical structure rather than congregational, meaning many Americans are indoctrinated within another system where it is not permissible to question authority.

Cradle to grave, Americans are encouraged to accept and move on rather than challenge and fight back. Ironic considering how this country was founded in the first place. Granted, the number of times I hear the USA was founded on Christian principles rather than enlightenment principles, it's no wonder we can't turn to our roots for inspiration.

Edited to add: Our national malaise is systemic, so there are undoubtedly myriad contributing factors beyond these.

[vim876]

55. So true.

Did you see "The War On Kids"? It practically gave me middle school flashbacks. You should also read this:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/raising-up-an-orwellian-g_b_757684.html

[RegieRocker]

59. What is wrong?

Patriotism isn't jumping on the bandwagon pulled by idiots, it's not being eager to fight in wars, it's not looking up to someone in awe and fascination, it's not believing everything you hear or see provided by your government. It's simply just the opposite to be a patriot. Are you a patriot?

[LibDemAlways]

64. "accept and move on" That sums it up. Put up with all manner of

shit and don't get upset. That's the American way.

[Alcibiades]

95. So true

In re the great forgetting of who the atheists, deists, agnostics and nominal Christians actually were. Yet our school system is certainly not unique in crushing the souls of our children: every school system does that. If you had to put it down to one thing, other than our corporations being legally required to have only one social obligation, namely maximizing profit for shareholders, it would be the freaky religiosity of the American people. We got all the heretics, and they created a more fanatical orthodoxy than Europe has seen since the inquisition.

[kath]

115. +1000.

Several VERY good points.
Re: being "educated into complacency" - this was one of the main reasons we homeschooled our kids. Have you read John Taylor Gatto?

School, religion and the teevee (plus sports, as a subset of teevee) combine to yield a wonderful (for the TPTB) combination of ignorance, stupidity, docility and complacency.

[Pacifist Patriot]

149. We homeschool our children. That's why I figured I'd get my backside on a griddle.

The last time I admitted that around here I was skewered as an un-American elitist.

[Enthusiast]

136. I agree.

We are being manipulated. There is no question about it. TPTB are taking us as far as they can without risking an uprising.

Much of this has been accomplished by the huge effort by Freedom Works and the Koch Brothers and their faux grass roots Tea Party movement. This tea party is essentially telling disgruntled people what they should be disgruntled about.

The media would have us believe the only real angry people out there are angry because they want smaller government. This is a joke. We know it is a joke. This is USSR level MANIPULATION. It is right in our face.

[M_A]

147. You nailed it.

The destruction and demonizing of the Unions completed the vicious circle of authoritarian control of the masses.

[LanternWaste]

16. Turn on, tune in, and level up...

Internet, DVD Movie Collections, Computer & Console Games, et.al. appear to me to act as even greater sedatives; indeed, the neo-opiate of the masses.

Turn on, tune in, and level up...

[snagglepuss]

32. Very true. I read a post the other day that turning off the internet backfired as

the lack of it forced people into the street to see what was happening.

[Enthusiast]

137. "the neo-opiate of the masses"

I like that.

You are right on the money. But traditional religion still plays that role for millions. And the stupid prevails.

[krabigirl]

31. This as well. Especially the pharmaceuticals.

[M_A]

148. yes

We have become the Prozac nation :crazy:

[vim876]

53. Dont be a %$^$.

Pharmaceuticals save far more lives than they ruin.

[russspeakeasy]

159. Really?? Are you using television ads as proof?

[johnlucas]

61. Kalun D hits it square between the eyes!

I would also add 'comfortable' to the descriptives.
Comfortable people don't fight the status quo. They just don't.
More people have to hit Rock Bottom before you ever see what's going on in Egypt here.

John Lucas

[Alameda]

168. Exactly! If it's not all, it's enough to tranquilize.

and most don't even realize it.

[Toucano]

6. Where to begin...it's a myriad of causes and factors.

Top to bottom, left to right, the U.S. and its people are blinded and rendered stupid by selfish, lazy, greed.

[AlbertCat]

104. rendered stupid by selfish, lazy, greed.

St Ronnie's creed: "Greed is good"

Dubya was the triumph of anti-intellectualism. No history, no art, no culture.... What's to fight for?

[Toucano]

183. We'll fight for the new "magic" cell phone?

Nah, we can get that on an installment plan and sign away our right to access the courts with the same stroke of a pen.

Maybe if you took away their televisions, soft drinks and potato chips they'd put up a fight.

[azul]

7. Hopelessness training.

Revival, and then repeated drownings did the trick.

[cali]

8. most Americans aren't suffering enough to risk what the Egyptians

are risking. It's that simple... and that obvious.

[girl gone mad]

60. This Wharton business professor says most Egyptians aren't suffering enough, either:

"Howard Pack, Wharton professor of business and public policy, is co-author of a book entitled, The Arab Economies in a Changing World, written with Marcus Noland, a senior fellow at The Peterson Institute for International Economics. In a blog written today, Pack suggests that “the immediate response to the revolutions sweeping the Middle East is to blame poverty, unemployment, and rising food prices…. Yet per capita economic growth in the high population nations such as Egypt is comparable to many other middle income countries, poverty not high by international standards such as the percentage of population living on less than two dollars a day, and progress in indicators such as life expectancy, infant mortality, and years of education has been quite remarkable, especially in Egypt. Tunisia’s standard of living and other indicators are even better.”

So I guess they shouldn't be protesting because they have it good compared to most people on Earth.

Maybe someday people will realize that the issue is not simply depth of poverty. Many of the people on the streets in Egypt are comfortably middle class. They are struggling against corruption and fascism - a government that works for the powerful, wealthy few. We can fight that battle, too, or we can continue to let the moneyed interests pillage our productive economy, virtually unchecked, as our rights and opportunities erode.

[JI7]

91. we have elections, they don't

so people don't feel as controlled . there is also more freedom of speech here. so people have ways of letting out how they feel.

[rhett o rick]

96. Our elections are a sham. nm

[Ghost Dog]

98. They are fake elections.

And only the chosen candidates, at the higher levels, are allowed to participate with any chance of success, as you well know.

[BzaDem]

128. Ya know, just because your chosen candidate doesn't win doesn't make the elections "fake."

It just means you aren't going to get your way.

[Ghost Dog]

129. Take the 'financial factors' out of your electoral system,

(aka bribery and corruption - and basic access to the MSM media) providing a politically level playingfield, and see what happens.

[BzaDem]

134. You say that only the chosen candidates are "allowed to participate."

But Kucinich wouldn't deny that he was allowed to participate. The problem for you is that he got a few percent of the vote -- not that he wasn't allowed to participate.

People should start differentiating Egypt's problems -- a real absence of democracy -- with the whining about not getting what one wants here, in a democracy where it just so happens that most people don't agree with them.

[Horse with no Name]

153. He wasn't allowed to FULLY participate

Did you even watch the sham of the "debates"? Do you agree that Kucinich did NOT get the level of questioning that candidates Obama and Clinton got?
And the fact that he wasn't allowed to participate in ALL of them?
You really should change your stance, because it is just wrong.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/01/kucinich_protes.html

>>>snip


PETERBOROUGH, N.H. -- Democrat Dennis Kucinich, campaigning across the street from Republican John McCain's town hall meeting, said he plans to take legal action later today seeking a court order allowing him to participate in tonight's presidential debate on ABC.

Kucinich, the only Democratic candidate who voted against the war in Iraq, said "this is not going to be a real debate if I am not in it." "It will just be a number of dittos up there."

The congressman from Ohio, with more than a dozen supporters in tow, spoke outside Harlow's Pub, where he claimed that voters in New Hampshire are being denied a crucial voice in the primary contest.

He railed against what he called the "corporate media" who want "to rig the presidential election."

[BobbyBoring]

160. 100% correct

The media hand delivers our candidates. Therefore, they're not really candid. Throughout the primaries, the PTB carefully watch the actions of each contestant. They are weeded out one by one and the final contestants are molded by said media to become electable. What else could esplan Obama coming from the back of the pack the way he did??

I just can't wait to see who the media serves up for the Rethug party POTUS spot in 2012. Judging by the early runners, it ought to be a doozie!

[BzaDem]

167. Oh yeah. If there are 40 candidates, let's give each 1/40th of the questions. Now that makes a lot

of sense.

:sarcasm:

Kucinich was on the ballot. If people were as far left as you say they were, they could have voted for him. They didn't. Considering how he barely registered in any poll by any organization (whether it be media/non-profit/Democratic/non-partisan), I'm actually surprised at how many debates Kucinich was in, rather than how few. People who's candidate doesn't register always come up with reasons for that, OTHER than most people simply disagreeing with them.

Does that mean that Kucinich's policies aren't laudable goals in many instances? Of course not. But the idea that there is or should be any kind of "revolution" when candidates of your preference can clearly run (and get negligible support) is absurd. People who don't spend 5 minutes doing candidate research aren't going to go out in the street and demand a "revolution," nor should they.

[Horse with no Name]

172. Wouldn't have expected a different response from a corporatist.

You didn't surprise or disappoint.

[Ghost Dog]

187. Yeah, well, that's one example.

But I was thinking in terms of, like, you know, ¿more parties in with a chance?

Not just the usual two wings of the Big Money Party?

In healthy democracies, there tend to be more ways of expressing more shades of public opinion. And coalition politics.

Oh, and maybe also stop the Gerrymandering.

You tell me. It seems to me that the electoral choices are, deliberately, very limited over there.

[Enthusiast]

139. The PTB will

find a 'center left' electorate. This is why they are not going to allow a bribery and corruption free election.

[Enthusiast]

138. The elections are fake.

Candidates run pretending they are one thing then turn out to be something entirely different once elected. This is subterfuge.

[raccoon]

151. Yep. Not to mention the 2000 presidential selection...nt

[Aleric]

164. Thank you for that Reality Check.

Wallstreet bonuses? Seriously? You think we should riot over wallstreet bonuses? People don't riot over crap like that. They riot because their own lives are so bad they have NOTHING TO LOSE.

Are you starving? Are you homeless? Are you in the middle of war zone? Are you afraid the FBI will drag you out in the middle of the night and torture you? Are you afraid the ICEmen will drag you out of your job and disappear you into a concentration camp?

My 401K is down 40% means you still have enough to lose that rioting is not worth the effort.

Yes, I wish people would pour into the streets to protest the injustices in American society but wishing won't make it so.

[Hutzpa]

9. Stupidity

simple.

[Bandit]

46. That and Laziness.

We have to be the laziest people on earth IMO and not all that well educated either..It is simply too much of a bother to protest especially when American Idol is on the tube...:shrug:

[wisteria]

86. I don't like protesting. I make my concerns and opinions known by keeping in touch with my

representitives.

[kath]

120. only they aren't really your "representatives".

They represent the corporations, and don't give a flying fuck about you.

[wisteria]

121. No, fortunately, I know that most elected officials do care about the people they represent.

I really feel sorry for you, it is sad you see everyone as being against you.

[Enthusiast]

140. Lazy?

The American work force puts in mega hours working. People are too god damned tired to protest.

[Democat]

10. They are watching the Super Bowl

And eating potato chips.

[Xenotime]

12. Had we pulled troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan as promised....

We could go into Egypt and help those who are really suffering.

[cali]

14. now there's a truly piss poor idea.

gad.

[Dr. Strange]

26. And they would welcome us as liberators.

No wait, I already saw this movie.

[Amonester]

28. And have some left to help those who are really suffering HERE too.

I know there are millions and millions of them, ALSO.

But who cares?

[Pacifist Patriot]

35. *shudder*

[ProSense]

13. This isn't accurate:

"While the Egyptian people are fighting off hired thugs in the streets of Cairo in order to have a shot at a decent, fair, democratic society, we here in the U.S. are sitting on our asses as America turns into a corrupt, bankrupt, Third-world oligarchy. What the fuck is wrong with us?"

No, Americans, left and right, are "sitting on our asses" worrying about the U.S. response to the Egyptian uprising.

The best thing the President can do in response to Egypt is cut aid, impose sanctions if necessary, monitor the situation, and then get on with addressing the economic problems in this country.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

99. how much of US aid to Egypt got to the Egyptian people?

what were we actually funding over the years?

[emulatorloo]

15. So are we escalating now to "Obama = Mubarek" ?

Just trying to keep up.

[tomp]

62. record profits for banks, recession for everyone else.

they differ only in style and context, not in substance. yeah, i went there.

[lonestarnot]

69. Wha? No recession for bonusers.

[chrisa]

181. lol

What an ignorant statement.

[wisteria]

87. It does seem that way. n/t

[rhett o rick]

97. I think you got it. nm

[kentuck]

17. I think that is an excellent question.

We have become dumbed-down robots. We go to our jobs and do whatever the boss asks. We have been programmed not to question authority. We make enough money to be comfortable, generally speaking. We sit in front of our TVs or computers and discuss the problems of the world but it never gets bad enough to actually do something about it. At least, not yet.

We do not hold our political leaders responsible. We rationalize that we have to agree, otherwise, the other side will be much worse. Meanwhile, we become more and more like them. We surrender everything, including our dignity, for political arguments. Meanwhile, we sink deeper and deeper into the quicksand, hoping someone will throw a rope when we need it...

[sufrommich]

18. Most Americans don't think our problems are revolution

worthy. I know that bothers a lot of people here, but the truth is that comparing the US to third world dictators is beyond ridiculous.

[wisteria]

+1 n/t

[NNN0LHI]

19. One of our Representatives was shot through the head a couple of weeks ago

We have our own problems right here that we had better keep our eye on or we will end up getting fucked really good.

Don

[Statistical]

20. Revolution happens when expected benefits outweigh the risk of losing current benefits.

Most Egyptians have nothing. There is little risk beyond their lives.

Most Americans have "something". Maybe it is less than 10 years ago but it is still more than 90% of the people on the planet.

Egypt: Less to risk, more to gain.
American: More to risk, less to gain.

[RagAss]

54. Revolution happens when you see yourself as already dead !

[westerebus]

79. Up date.

Revolution is when you see yourself as already dead but are willing to take your oppressors with you.

[RagAss]

82. Yes...much better.

[MrMickeysMom]

113. Hmmmmmm... that may be it...

Good on you for that thought.

It's what I see in the faces of these people. That, pacing in turning in circles with their hands to their heads.

This is madness, and we have to take steps. Maybe the first ones we take is that -

THIS is a real example of having to remove a dictator, not the thing we did 8 years ago in Iraq. Funny thing is, they were both our dictators.

Gee, NOW what do we do?

[westerebus]

174. Get ready for the home game.

[kudzu22]

56. I think you nailed it

Life here isn't perfect, but it's still awfully damned good.

[Atypical Liberal]

92. I was surprised to read this post.

Until I saw the author. Figures. :)

I don't understand why people are surprised that America is not in the throws of a revolution.

The fact of the matter is, life here is pretty good for most of us by American standards, and damn awesome for most of us by global standards.

Most people in America still believe in the "American Dream".

When the housing boom was still going on 3 years ago and houses were still being built in our subdivision, every morning at sunrise the Mexican laborers would be out putting up nailing lumber, putting up bricks, and laying shingles, and they were there until dark. Those guys knew a land of opportunity when they saw one.

[BobbyBoring]

161. Tell That

To the people living in tent cities across America. Tell that to the 96,000 homeless in LA alone. Tell that to the octogenarian I saw in the pharmacy last night trying to figure out how to pay for a $6.39 prescription.

Those of us that still have something see it slipping away very fast. The overall mood in America is more dismal than I ever thought I would see it. We hear about this "Recovery" but we don't see it because it isn't there. It's just more smoke and mirrors

[Aleric]

166. +1000

[lpbk2713]

21. That question has puzzled me for some time.

[montanto]

22. panem et circenses.

[kentuck]

24. Would that be "bread and circuses"?

That's all we need. Throw in a little Kim Kardashian every once in a while.

[janet118]

23. Kill the televisions . . . and they will wake up

Television is the opiate of the people

[AlbertCat]

105. Television is the opiate of the people

No

RELIGION is still the opium of the people. Television is the needle.

[janet118]

175. um . . . i believe one smokes

opium which would, in your analogy, make television the bong/hookah.

[Recursion]

25. We're much older and much richer than Egyptians and Tunisians

Median age of 34 vs. 24. And we're almost incalculably more rich than Egyptians, even America's poor.

[Gaedel]

38. Even

Even if you are on food stamps, you are eating a whole lot better than most of the world.

[Recursion]

39. I did an OP on this

The poorest 5% of the US are richer than the richest 5% of India.

[vim876]

57. Without PPP...

...(Price Point Parity), that graph seems pretty meaningless.

[liberation]

73. Relativity without normalization is useless

To the single mother working 3 jobs and who is about to be evicted from her flat in Detroit, it makes little difference that if she was able to magically teleport to Mumbai she would be rolling in rupees.

That graph is saying how tasty oranges are when compared to apple bottom jeans. It is meaningless.

[Recursion]

77. Both of you are wrong

The poorest in America are better off than 4 of the 5 richest percent in India. Period,

[vim876]

100. Repetition...

...is not the same thing as an argument.

[U4ikLefty]

112. ...b-b-but they said "Period"

and punctuated it with a comma!!!

How could they be wrong?

[OrwellwasRight]

81. So?

So everything's hunky dory here? The US is so rich that everyone should just shut up and go back to watching TV? I don't think so.

First of all, the homeless in America have nothing, zero, zilch, nada. They are not richer than anybody. Second, this country is run by an oligarchic cabal of two parties whose constituents disagree vehemently on almost everything, but whose leadership agrees on a lot (NAFTA-style trade is good, Soc Sec needs "reform," Wall Street "was" reformed, and talk of social justice or income inequality just shows that you're a silly neophyte not to be taken seriously (see, e.g., Dennis Kucinich)). These are major problems. We should fight back! Or we can go on being oppressed, but being mostly OK with it until our trade policy makes our lower and middle classes not just "relatively" poor compared to Wall Street bankers, but "objectively" poor based on your chart. And don't have any doubt that is where we are going.

[Enthusiast]

141. Excellent post and right on.

"this country is run by an oligarchic cabal of two parties whose constituents disagree vehemently on almost everything, but whose leadership agrees on a lot (NAFTA-style trade is good, Soc Sec needs "reform," Wall Street "was" reformed, and talk of social justice or income inequality just shows that you're a silly neophyte not to be taken seriously (see, e.g., Dennis Kucinich))."

In other words, our citizens are the victims of an organized mass ruse perpetrated on us to maintain the status quo.

[OrwellwasRight]

186. I try to be more optimistic, but

sometimes the frustration sets in.

I do know that we won't be rescued by the "next great leader" preaching hope and change. The people have to wake up and take the country back ourselves or continue on our downward spiral as a nation, where we citizens play a distant second fiddle to heartless corporations.

[Oak2004]

27. A couple of weeks ago I'll bet that's what Egyptian dissidents were asking, more or less

Same way the Adamses were bemoaning the apathy of the colonists in letters mere months before the Revolution began. And the same way democracy activists, on both sides of the Iron Curtain, despaired that the Berlin Wall would never fall in our lifetimes. Or the way Lenin wrote that the Russian sheeple (no, he didn't use that word, but the words he used would translate nicely to "sheeple") would be the last nation on earth to have a Communist revolution, not long before it became the first.

Revolutions happen when they happen, and when they do happen, they happen with astonishing swiftness. It's not true that revolution requires desperate poverty, or the entire third world would be in a state of near-permanent revolt. Revolutions happen when the gap between reality and expectations become too great. If and when revolution comes to America, the one thing that can be reliably predicted is that there will be people writing the night before about the hopelessness of the American sheeple.

[krabigirl]

29. We have our bread and circuses.

[KurtNYC]

71. exactly -- it's a proven winner

for 2000 years or so now.

[WillyT]

30. How Much Time Do You Have ???

:evilgrin:

:kick: & Rec !!!

[goforit]

33. Protests?

All Americans have guns.
Big difference.

[somone]

34. We're busy with Charlie Sheen, Chinese Moms vs. Jewish Moms

and such crap

[cottonseed]

Most American's aren't living a revolution fantasy through the Egyptians.

Sorry, but there won't be a revolution in this country for a long, long time.

[slay]

36. Don't worry - Jesus will save us

at least that's what the 76% of our population that is Christian believe. Well, they'll be saved, not necessarily us. :eyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States

Maybe once we stop putting faith in Gods that may or may NOT exist, but sure as hell don't ever show up to help us, then perhaps we can make some steps forward. It's hard to do that when so much of our population, especially the red state evangelicals, base their view of the world on total nonsense. Between that and Foxnews most people aren't well enough informed to stand up for themselves/ourselves sadly.

As for why liberals don't protest anymore - I guess we look back at the 60's and see that nothing really changed - with the end result being no serious structural change, and go - what's the point? Back then people actually believed in the possibility of a better world. But now people are so beat down and brainwashed by consumer capitalism, religion, commercials, and nothing but lies from our leaders apathy seems to have taken over.

Also, things are not bad enough yet. We're not at 40% poverty - yet - just give it time though. Also, capitalism teaches people to be so extremely self-centered that unless something affects them on a day to day basis, they just don't care. Like pollution, and global warming, and the wars, etc. :(

...

[vim876]

58. All 76% of them?

Lemme guess...you think all Muslims are terrorist whackos, too. Charming.

[slay]

93. yep

you am a good generalizer. :eyes: you definatlely personify the typical judgmental christian. i'm just saying it doesn't help but whatever yo. :evilgrin:

[vim876]

103. You just said...

...that every American Christian thinks God will save us so we don't have to fix anything, and that religion was the problem blocking America from moving forward. I think I'm justified in thinking you are an anti-religious bigot. And a charming one, at that. Evangatheism isn't going to make everything magically better. Sorry. Religions don't screw things up in this country, @$$holes do. (That religion is one of their preferred excuses is immaterial. They could just as easily use nationalism or some other nonreligious ideology.) I'm not perfect. I make mistakes, but I'm not telling you that people who don't believe in God are the problem (nor do I think that, for the record). I'm (admittedly snarkily) telling you not to be a jerk. So who's judgmental here?

[AlbertCat]

107. That religion is one of their preferred excuses is immaterial.

Here we go again...thinking there are people USING religion, and other people who practice religion. But a religion IS the people who claim to be part of it. Dumbfuck Christians like Sarah Palin are just as Christian as "moderate" Christians.... because if there are no followers, then it is just myth that doesn't effect things. Ask the ancient Greeks.

Religious people do indeed screw things up in this country. And without religious people, there is no religion. You cannot separate a religion from its followers.

If you are, say, a Christian who doesn't like what something other Christians are doing, it's up to you as a Christian to do something about it. They aren't gonna listen to an atheist like me. They aren't gonna listen to a Muslim. But instead you claim Religion is innocent!

Baloney!


But I will say.... there are a lot of Muslims in Egypt. The protesters were chanting "Alla is great!". So I don't really see how too much religion is a recipe for complacency. But in this day and age, religion is just an ancient institution that is obsolete. It's just not that helpful in SOLVING problems. It is utterly useless for explaining the how and why of things. But it's full of inspirational fables and myths. It'll be a great day when the Bible, the Koran and even the Vedas are on the same shelf with the Iliad and the Odyssey and Beowulf.

[snappyturtle]

110. +1

[vim876]

177. Do you feel responsible for atheist @$$holes?

If not, then I'm not responsible for Sarah Palin (though if I could show her the light, I certainly would, and I'm praying God will turn her heart.) How far does this go? Are Catholics responsible when Mormons are jerks? Are the Abrahamic religions all responsible for each other? Also, I'm glad you are so certain of your thoughts that other people are automatically wrong and ruining society, to boot. It must be lovely to feel so superior.

[AlbertCat]

108. I'm justified in thinking you are an anti-religious bigot

Why is that?

Because he thinks religion is not so great?

Talk about bigotry!

Religionists love to feel persecuted. They tolerate no criticism!

[vim876]

179. No...

I don't care if he thinks religion is the dumbest thing in the universe. That's fine and dandy. But assuming because some people in a broad group you don't like think something stupid means everyone in the group agrees is bigotry. You can criticize my actual beliefs all you want. You think God's a crock? Fine. Why should I care? But if you don't bother to even find out if I believe something before criticizing me for it, yeah, I'm gonna think you're a bigot. Because you are. I don't make assumptions about people based on their atheism, all I'm asking is that you extend the same courtesy.

[MisterP]

116. Mr. "niqabs make me sick" is part of the problem nt

[Kievan Rus]

40. Bread and circuses

As long as the average American has their fast food (bread) and "reality" TV like Dancing with the Stars (circuses), they will not care about working to make America a better, more equal place.

Do you honestly expect Americans to support and work towards equality and social justice when a lot of Americans can name who won Dancing with the Stars last year but can't name their Congressperson, when the attitude in most middle and high schools is that "it's cool to be ignorant" and the well-read and intelligent are looked down upon (an attitude that carries into adulthood in way too many people), when more than half of all adults don't vote in non-Presidential elections, and of the half of those that even do vote, they willingly vote against their own best interests because somebody on the TeeVee or talk radio tells them to?

[snappyturtle]

109. "It's cool to be ignorant..." , if that isn't the truth. Much that has been

said on this thread I agree with,however, your response is the crux of the 'mess' the U.S. is experiencing.imho

Unfortunately, the ignorance is willful, as you point out, and worse still the prevalent way of thinking, if you want to call it that.

When I have tried to explain matters to those who haven't a clue, I get this dazed deer in the headlights look that is surpassed only by body language that translates into, "Are you about done?"

Several have mentioned until more people are faced with worsening conditions our situation will not change. Sadly, I also agree with that opinion.

[DeSwiss]

43. WTF is wrong with Americans?

- Why? It's partly cultural ignorance, but it's mostly FEAR.

K&R

So if we are talking change through revolt, we're necessarily talking about deconditioning because the thing we fear already has a life deep in our own consciousness. Deconditioning from cultural ignorance is at the heart of any insurrectionary politics. Deconditioning also involves risk and suffering. But it is transformative, freeing the self from helplessness and fear. It unleashes the fifth freedom, the right to an autonomous consciousness. That makes deconditioning about as individual and personal act as is possible. Maybe the only genuine individual act.

Once unencumbered by self-induced and manufactured cultural ignorance, it becomes clear that politics worldwide is entirely about money, power and national mythology, with or without some degree of human rights. America still has all of the above to one degree or another. Yet for all practical purposes, such as advancing the freedom and the well being of its own people, the American republic has collapsed.

Of course, there is still money to be made by the already rich. So the million or so people who own the country and the government use their control to convince us that there is no collapse, just economic and political problems that need to be solved. Naturally, they are willing to do that for us. Consequently, the economy is discussed in political terms, because the government is the only body with the power to legislate, and therefore render the will of the owning class into law.

But politics and money are never going to fill what is essentially a public vacuum that is moral, philosophical and spiritual. (The latter was instantly recognized by fundamentalist Christians, disfigured by cultural ignorance, as they may be.) Not many ordinary Americans talk about this vacuum. The required spiritual and philosophical language has been successfully purged by newspeak, popular culture, a human regimentation process masquerading as a national educational system, and the ruthlessness of everyday competition, which leaves no time to contemplate anything.

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/12/america-y-ur-peeps-b-so-dum.html">~Joe Bageant, "America Y UR Peeps B So Dum?"

[Citizen Worker]

44. Paraphrasing Chomsky: when I talk in foreign countries the audience tells me what they are doing to

address the issues. In the US the audience acknowledge the problems and then ask, what can we do? Is it a lack of imagination? Timidity? Absence of critical thinking skills? I don't know but it seems to me it has more to do with subordination to authority and the overt unwillingness to take a risk. Just a thought.

[handmade34]

47. I vote for....

"Absence of critical thinking skills"


funny... just got this in my mail from the "Critical Thinking Community" http://www.criticalthinking.org/

The critical habit of thought, if usual in society, will pervade all its mores, because it is a way of taking up the problems of life. Men educated in it cannot be stampeded by stump orators ... They are slow to believe. They can hold things as possible or probable in all degrees, without certainty and without pain. They can wait for evidence and weigh evidence, uninfluenced by the emphasis or confidence with which assertions are made on one side or the other. They can resist appeals to their dearest prejudices and all kinds of cajolery. Education in the critical faculty is the only education of which it can be truly said that it makes good citizens. ~ William Graham Sumner, Folkways, 1906

[decidedlyso]

67. It is a weariness going back years of seeing one horrible thing

after the other happen to them and their country, no matter who is in any branch of government.

[quaker bill]

49. A near total misread of history

The people got tired of a stupid guy in the Whitehouse and voted for the smart sounding one.

Folks on the left love to believe that good policy wins elections in the US. It doesn't. If it did, the TEA party would not have won a single race. Jesse Ventura would never have been Governor, Bush would not have been close to either Gore or Kerry, take your pick. There is very little evidence, with the exception of a few sequestered enclaves, that good policy ever wins an election.

In 2008, we elected the smart guy. In 2010 we were angry, and we elected the angry guys. It might as well be American Idol, because it is all image and emotion. I knew Obama would be the next President before the first primary ballot was cast, predicted a 5 to 7 percent victory margin, took bets and won them, simply because I knew he had the sound and image of the next President.

There is no pending revolution here and the thinking that 2008 was the opening salvo of such is simply mistaken self-flattery.

[Codeine]

50. Some fucking perspective would do this place wonders.

There are assuredly some people in America, - a few on this board, in fact - who are in dire economic straits, but for the most part we live in circumstances far beyond the daily lives of most Egyptians.

[liberation]

66. Well, there are some Egyptians who live for the most part far beyond the lives of most Americans

So what's the big deal over there, right?

[Bonobo]

75. Funny to see sympathy for the plight of Egyptians here and then you see this.

Why not just call the OP a "whiner" and be done with it

You have essentially just done that.

"Perspective" is just that -and it depends on where you are relative to where you once were, where your parents were and where you hope to be.

You cannot simply compare the plight of Americans against the Egyptians and unanimously declare that Americans are whiners because Egyptians have dirt floors.

You are being far too simplistic.

The problems in America, economic and political, are nothing to diminish. Neither are people's complaints about them.

[Fire1]

51. Hush! American Idle is on! n/t

[southernyankeebelle]

52. Wait til they start cutting peoples pensions, ss, medicare and medicaid the

things that help people. Remember inividual states are making deep cuts now so watch out - look, and listen then you will see people going in the streets. The same tea partiers will be demand don't touch the medicare or social security.

[decidedlyso]

68. There will be bloody riots by at least the teapartiers.

[Initech]

63. Fux News brainwashing telling people everything is gonna be OK.

[liberation]

72. Actually it is the opposite. Fox is telling people nothing is OK

What they are getting away with is in convincing large masses of fools that the blame resides on almost anyone else but the people responsible.

You don't divide and conquer people by telling them everything is OK. You tell them everything is not OK, and you blame it on the people who were trying to fix it to begin with. That is why FOX's favorite scapegoat is the Left. You simply divert the attention of half of the population towards the other half who is trying to deal with the problems. That is sure to slow them down and allow the people at the top to proceed as planned. It is the oldest trick in the book.

[Initech]

83. Yeah I hadn't really thought about that.

But it's true - that's what they do best. The Fux machine always needs a scapegoat - whether it's gays, immigrants, Islam, Armageddon, or whatever.

[Enthusiast]

142. Thank you. nt

[Mosaic]

65. Americans

a bunch of spoiled rotten, lazy morons with brain rot from too much tee vee.

[Honeycombe8]

70. It depends on your viewpoint, and what matters most to you, and how fast you expect change.

I had (and have) certain priorities. Some people want it all and want it fast. I don't. Obama and the Dem. Congress has delivered on some of the things I consider high priorities. I'm not saying I loved what they passed, but these things were a step in the right direction, and were definitely a step in the opposite direction of what we had before.

The current administration and the prior Congress have done some very good things regarding the environment, protected wilderness areas, and steps to speed up our getting away from oil. They also passed a healthcare bill, something that would NEVER have happened under a Republican administration. All right, it's not a great bill. I was very angry at the time it passed. But it's there, and it can be built upon. To the Republicans, everything with health care was hunky dory, so why change it? That was, and is, their belief.

Bush passed paltry increases in mpg requirements for vehicles. Under him we saw the Hummer take wings and appear on every highway in America, and huge SUVs became all the rage. Now, there are some more serious mpg requirements coming down the pike, starting with 2012 models and continuing increases to 2016.

I'm looking to buy a new car soon. I believe that if it were not for the current administration, I wouldn't have so many hybrids and even electric cars to consider. I would have SOME, but not so many. Things are changing in the automotive world, for sure. And big SUVs, while still being sold, are filling up used car lots because so many don't want them. And Hummers are no longer made.

In a dictatorship, things change fast. It's simple with that type of government. But in a representative democracy, esp one where the politicians rely on getting lots of money, change is pretty slow. But many good things have happened the last two years. It's been only two years. Hard to believe. And look at all that's been accomplished.

There's still a long way to go. But at least the ship has changed course. As far as being an oligarchy, hasn't America (and most other industrialized countries) been oligarchies? Those with big bucks control things in the world. Imagine if you had big bucks and bought DU. You would then control it. Or, say you contributed tens of thousands of dollars. Your posts would be more than welcome at DU. That is the way of the world, of human nature. I don't know that anything can change that very much.

If we were cavemen and lived in caves, and you were the biggest, baddest caveman around, and the best hunter, and had the best hides and the best cave....just like a rock star, you'd be surrounded by cave people who depended on you to get food or luxuries, or just because you're a big caveman around town.

We don't have to throw rocks and beat up journalists. We can do something way better. We can vote. We can also blog, write letters to the editor, have our thoughts heard, express our views. We can complain to the networks about their broadcasters and pundits. We can also improve our lot by getting an education, getting a better job, moving with hope to better our circumstances. We can buy homes and cars and things to improve our quality of life. So America isn't like many of the oppressive countries we hear about & see on TV. It's just not. Neither is Canada or Norway or Mexico. But we have policies and tax laws that need changing. And we can try to get that done.

[lonestarnot]

74. DU isn't for sale, not even for a price and further I see alot of expect nothing therefore one won't

be disappointed here. And how much can the unemployed buy really? An education? A house? A car? No they can't buy shit. We are still in two or three wars with no end in sight and we outsource faster than ... we'll I gotta go.

[Honeycombe8]

133. You didn't read the post. I listed the high priority and historical things that got done.

I guess they weren't YOUR priority items. But they were mine, and they were Obama's (did you listen to his campaign speeches? He said what he was going to try to do...and these were those things. No surprises.)

As far as the unemployed buying a house....no, they can't. That's why jobs are so important. The administration is trying to focus on jobs. So we better not get waylayed by "trials for torture" and things like that. Still, most people are employed. And you don't need a lot of $ to get an education. There are grants for poor people (my sister went through college on grants), and scholarships for those with good grades.

Personal responsibility. Get an eduation. Make good grades. Get a job. Buy a house and car (if you need a car for transportation). Most people in the country are able to do this, just like in Canada. And it's easier here than in Great Britain and some other industrialized countries.

It's a great country with lots of opportunity. Instead of focusing on the half glass empty, try to focus on working your ass off to make your lot better. If you do that, it will happen.

[BobbyBoring]

165. Sorry

But that sounds like a caller to the Hannity show. The typical conservative "pull yourself up by the bootstraps, get an education" horse shit.
Maybe YOUR circumstances are good, but you'll find you're an exception and not the rule. Buy a house or a car? BANKS HAVE FROZEN LENDING. PERIOD! I have property for sale in a resort area where the market is still fair, as in values haven't declined as bad as other areas. Most real estate agents here are driving cabs, not new cars because they can't sell property because BANKS WON'T LOAN.

Get a job??? My S/O has a small landscaping company that is reaching the why bother point. She ran an ad for help and got 342 calls in 3 days. There aren't any jobs. Cashiers have been replaced by machines. Call centers for banks, cable companies, utilities, etc are in India. Most of our manufacturing is done overseas.

We have to be waylaid by trial for torture as well as trials for people who lied us in to wars and lied our economy in to the dumpster. It's all connected. Until we pull out the rot that started this and perpetuates it, we'll stay on the path we're on.

[lonestarnot]

185. No Shit! Great minds think alike. Posted my response before I read your response.

:toast:

[lonestarnot]

184. Welp if that isn't some fucking pukie boot strap response if I ever read one.

I did read your stupid post and it sounded bootstrappie then too. Don't tell me where to focus either! Let them you, but not bofe of us. :thumbsdown:

[pam4water]

76. Where do I start?

[TatonkaJames]

89. Exactly !

They have people's heads so far up their arses they don't see reality anymore.
They don't educate themselves. America. # 1 - my ass. If people were taught
how we, the French and English have gone into other countries for centuries
and screwed with them and their people they would say, "Nah, not America".
We're a clueless nation that idols multi-million a year NBA players who fight
more than they do play the game if they aren't being arrested for a crime, idols
everyone teen wants to be like so screw school, I can be a star !
Parents not giving a crap because they have to work 2 - 4 jobs.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
We are so dumbed down it's about at the point of no return for us.

[brindis_desala]

78. Bigger Crumbs

Why We Are Passive
"A nation that has lost hope can no longer be democratic. What paralysis is to the individual, the listlessness that comes from hopelessness is to the nation."
--Edward A. Filene, President, Economic Club of Boston, March 9, 1905

The genius of these Corporate United States is the thrall of helplessness that steadily wears down and overwhelms its working subjects. The principle stands enshrined in the phrase "Too Big to Fail".

(snip)

"Neither this people, nor any other free people will tolerate the use of vast power conferred by vast wealth and especially wealth in its corporate form, without lodging somewhere in the government a still higher power ..." --Theodore Roosevelt

By choosing subservience to amoral profit over idealism and intellectual independence Americans became witless marks for Wall Street's hustle"
(more)
http://garveysimpolitics.blogspot.com/

[midnight]

80. Cuz being angry implies insanity, or not in ones right mind.....

They hope to distract us with another pending war... possibly in Iran..... Then they can finish off the looting.....

[wisteria]

84. So you are saying we should take to the streets and protest because we don't have as much money as

other people do? "A corrupt, bankrupt, third world oligarchy"- come on. I don't know about you, but I live in America, where everyone has a chance to get ahead and to make money. The government certainly tries to help in many ways, like programs for schooling and laws to protect us from discrimination. Two of our recent presidents were not born rich, President Clinton and President Obama. Both of them came from broken homes with mothers who supported them. They managed to make it, but I bet it wasn't easy and it took hard work and dedication from them.
We already had our revolution to secure our freedoms.

[Major Hogwash]

88. Get back to me in a few hours.

It's gonna take that long to type it all out.

John McCain.
That's as good of a place as any to start, I guess.

Sarah Palin.
That's where it will end, I'm pretty sure.
(Unless she tweets in the meantime.)

Everything in-between is the hard part to get down on paper.

[OwnedByFerrets]

90. We are too comfortable. When the time comes, as it will, that we are not

...only then will there be uprisings.

[Swampguana]

94. It all comes down to education

America is getting less and less intelligent. People with lower education are easier to manipulate and control.

[npk]

101. It's because the unemployment threshold has not been met, yet.

Right now America hovers around 9-10 % unemployment nationwide. If you factor in another 5-6 % that have simply given up on trying to find another job, or have gone back to school for more education, that puts the unemployment number at closer to 15-16%. That means that over 80% of the country's adult workforce is still employed. Or in other words, life is still the same for the very large majority in this country. If you were to break things down across the board what you would find is that about 60% of people are basically living the same quality of life they were living 10 years ago. 10-15% of people are dealing with larger than normal, but not extraordinary, changes in their income and quality of life. That leaves the remaining 15% who have had their worlds literally turned upside down. Jobs, homes, medical insurance lost. But as bad as that seems it's not widespread enough to trigger the kind of reaction we are seeing in Egypt. In Egypt over half of the college educated young work force cannot get a job, and poverty thresholds are reaching closer to 70% percent.

Here in America we would need to see the unemployment threshold hit at least 30-40%, and then would probably need to see, on top of those numbers, an increase in the total overall poverty numbers by as much as 15-20%. Basically at this point most Americans believe the economy is going to turn around, So they believe that they will once again be employed. In essence most Americans still have reasonable hope to believe that their quality of life is going to return to normal. In Egypt the hope of gainful employment was long since shattered.

The majority of Americans are not going to panic, protest, or take to the streets in any kind of fashion, much less to the extent that you are seeing in Egypt, until the unemployment threshold reaches epidemic proportions.

[area51]

130. We already have that type of joblessness:

30½% unemployment. We're in the 2nd Great Depression.

[AlbertCat]

102. What the fuck is wrong with us?

Shhhhhhh!
Reruns of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" are on!

[Curtis]

106. Division

I think it's as simple as we are a divided nation. The left hates the right, the right hates the left and both hate the middle. We, as a whole, cannot come together and realize we are all manpulated by the elite. They have usright where they wants us. We'd rather blame the people on the other side while the elites rob us blind ACTING like they give a damn about us. Until the people can come together, nothing will change.

[AlbertCat]

114. The left hates the right, the right hates the left and both hate the middle.

I don't think the Left "hates" the right. The left is more infuriated with the right, which is obviously lying and barking like a medicine show salesman. Both left and right have fringe elements, but they are not symmetrical. One weighs heavier than the other. The Right really does seem to hate the left. I haven't seen any lefties with a map of cross hairs or coming armed to town hall meetings.... yet many Lefties own guns.

Everyone does hate the middle though. Make up your fucking minds, why don't you. It isn't rocket science to see which party a majority of average people come out better under. I mean, if the choice is McCain/Palin vs a ham sandwich... the best choice is obvious!

[Curtis]

132. i dont mean to paint the sides as symetrical

I know that's a false equivalency. However, there are those on the left who do the the right (just see the thread being critical of some who cheer the Fox News reporters being beaten in Egypt)

My point is we all, including myself, allow ourselves to be divided and manipulated instead of seeing the real problems.

And yes, though I've been vegetarian for 27 years, i'd go for the ham sandwich too ;)

[AuntPatsy]

117. Too many believe what the media reports and others are shackled by religion scare tactics

[colsohlibgal]

118. Too Many Uninformed Or Misinformed In The USA

Too many people are buying what Faux News sells hook, line and sinker, too many, as Jim Ward from Stephie Miller's show says, are much more interested in seeing semi celebrities eat bugs or dance. It is so sad. Just not enough people who really spend any time verifying as best they can what the truth really is. Too many validating the theory of the dumbing down of America.

So many of us who spend the time have a pretty good picture of what's what and who the real villains are and it's terribly frustrating that more people can't seem to put 2 and 2 together correctly.

[Joe Fields]

119. I've been screaming that for some time now, but no one here pays

much attention. Guess I should post on Kos.

[Youth Uprising]

122. Leftists who talk about revolution

are shunned and seen as radicals, progressive commentators who use passionate and fiery rhetoric to make their voices heard over the airwaves are silenced and made fun of by hack comedians, real progressive politicians who are fighting for real change are marginalized and shunned by the corporatist Democratic Party. We are constantly told to be civil towards liars, war-mongers, imperialists, people who profit over the deaths and suffering of others. We must not rock the boat and preserve the status quo at all costs.

[Imagevision]

123. What's your problem? Ameican media is doing a fine job controlling its people!

[ipaint]

124. Unemployment rate for those making over 80,000 is 5%. Over 100,000 it's 4%.

I recently got a crappy job cleaning these peoples homes. They are surrounded by luxury when compared with the lives of those of us at the bottom and in their world things are quite normal. Their luxury insulates them. These people aren't going to realize that things aren't hunky dory for many americans or that criminals are in charge of the country until someone takes away their granite counter tops, massive fit for a king beds and their 3+ big screen high definition tv's.

[gtar100]

125. It's not the same in America.

I don't disagree with you about the terrible apathy that so many Americans display. But there's a fundamental difference between the US and other countries that cannot be ignored. You can't compare Egypt or Tunisia with the US. How about Egypt and New York? Or Tunisia and Pennsylvania. How about Greece and Maryland. That's more fair. America itself is 3,000 plus miles east to west. If we take to the streets in LA, tens of thousands of towns are seemingly unaffected. To them the protests are a news event, disconnected from their everyday existence. Still, when it comes to Federal policy, they will want their say as loud as the people on the streets in that far away city. Every other country in the world, with the exception China (and to a lesser extent Russia), has more of an equivalency to one of our states than the US as a whole. Smaller countries arguably have more autonomy than any one of our states so their marches and protests can have a much greater impact. Their place of power is generally concentrated in one city, enough so that protests there have major impacts on leaders and the communities throughout their country.

As an example, the progress of California is no doubt held back by other states. Just look at the disparity of tax income coming out of there compared to so many other "red" states that take more from the Federal government than they give. What if it considered itself sovereign? Or imagine if New Yorkers decided they have had enough with the corruption and took to the streets. If New York was a sovereign country, all the rest of us could do would be to watch from the outside, hope for the best, send our prayers, voice our opinions. But that isn't the case. Whatever strategy we have for change needs to take this into consideration.

If we are going to effect change across this country, we must take into consideration far more than any other sovereign country. The ethnic and cultural diversity of this nation is not easily coalesced. Instead, we must influence it from the ground up. Liberal and progressive values are not just an ideal, they are proven. They work and we have no reason for shame. We know for a fact that progressive ideals put into practice can withstand the test of time and be of the greatest benefit for the most number of people. We must not let the folly of the conservatives stand unchallenged or relinquish the laws of this land to their selfish, greedy, hateful practices.

Protesting in the streets is essential for sending out messages both to ourselves and to those we target. But we need more than that. What we need to do is have our voices heard on the school boards, the town halls, city and county governments, neighborhood associations, business round-tables, law enforcement agencies, and any other groups that hold sway over public policy and practice. Or just speak up wherever if someone lays out a bunch of right-wing BS. It's time for grass root tactics. And plan for a long haul of it.

[Raine]

126. EXACTLY on point! nt

:thumbsup:

[Enthusiast]

144. You are so right...nt

[tavalon]

127. Honestly we're distracted right now - we are watching the Egyptian revolution

and as a fellow nurse said to me tonight at work, this is going to happen here and soon. She's right.

[boppers]

131. We are rich, fat, and lazy.

Our "poor" have televisions and cell phones.

Our "malnourished" are overweight.

Our "needy" make better money on the streets than through legal work.

In short, we want the peasants of the world to eat cake. (Which, of course, we can buy at a 24-hour convenience store).

[Enthusiast]

135. Every facet of the American media

has been compromised.

We are constantly told by everyone in the media that we are a 'center right' nation.

If this is true how do you account for the 2006 and 2008 election results? Especially how do you account for the election of Obama? Obama was perceived as a black liberal by the electorate.

No. I reject the notion of a center right nation. We are governed from the right. But we are not center right.

Every poll is a push poll and has no more validity than any other segment of the media. On health care -we want single payer. War? We want the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Social security and medicare? We want them fully funded. And the American people are willing to pay more in taxes to accomplish these ends.

So the media impression is FALSE. It is intentionally false and we know it.

[wial]

143. I saw it in Thailand in the early '90s too:

The dictator insulted the *intelligence* of the people. So Americans would need *intelligence* and the recent generations are just too stupified by sugar drinks and their informational moral equivalents to be insulted.

Mind you, I also remember when we threw Nixon out, so it could still happen.

[proReality]

145. More have to hit rock bottom before things begin to turn around.

There are still a lot of people feeling comfortable. Comfortable people don't take to the streets.

[Nye Bevan]

150. Nothing is wrong with us. We live in a democracy, so we deal with these issues at the ballot box,

not by fighting on the streets. As Obama illustrated, in this country a little-known candidate can raise money primarily from small donations from ordinary people (as opposed to corporate megabucks) and end up being President through our normal democratic process, without bombs, bullets and bloodshed. You want to challenge Obama from the left? You can go ahead and do it, as opposed to posting on internet message boards complaining about the fact that nobody else is doing so.

[BobbyBoring]

169. Sorry

Obama biggest contributors were Goldman Sachs, B of A, Citi group, GE, etc.

[jeepnstein]

154. We're still fat and sassy compared to Egypt.

Our poor still have it pretty good compared to many places. Except for the ones who have fell out the bottom and are living underneath a bridge somewhere, it's possible to be poor and fairly comfortable in the U.S. The divide is growing every day between the rich and poor. One of these days people will wake and and wonder what happened. It won't be any time soon.

[mntleo2]

163. Ask a Somalian Refugee about poverty in America ...

...which is what I asked my friend Margaret, who has a college education (Somalian, a rarity for a woman in that country), lost her entire family including her husband, 2 daughters and 3 sons to war, lived and was raped daily in refugee camps before finally coming to America, where because she could only find a McJob, lived on the streets of Seattle for 2 years and then contracted the awful TB that has no cure from the homeless shelters that she was forced to seek in the coldest times.

There is no more proud American than Margaret where growing up female and whose vast insight, sense of humanity and sharp intelligence was not respected at all in Somalia, even though she was college educated and wise. These are things Margaret loves about America because she can be a woman and actually be respected as an individual, not someone's daughter, mother of a son or a wife. Margaret cleans house for a living at this time and is a devout Catholic having converted from Islam.

I told her that many say as you do here that we low income Americans "have it good" and what did she think of poverty in America?" I fully expected to hear her say, "You Americans are lucky even when you are poor," but she did not....

Margaret told me, "Being poor in America is awful because you all have to pay for everything that are necessities in order to survive. If you want to cook something, you cannot just find some sticks and build a fire to cook your meal, you cannot live in your parks. If you need warmth and shelter, you cannot just go into the forest where you will find indigenous people who have lived there for many millennia who can teach you how to survive, they have all been chased away and you would be arrested for even trying. In Somalia the poor always have a way to survive, but in America unless you depend on handouts if you do not have enough, you will die. You do not value clan and family enough to band together to survive. Because here extended families living together where they would survive easier with many hands, this is considered somehow "bad". It is "every man or woman for themselves" and God fobid if you do not have enough money without any community or kin. I am glad to be here in America, but to be honest, being poor was far easier in Somalia..."

Just sayin' ...

Cat in Seattle <----- who also has friends from Viet Nam, Eastern Europe, El Salvador, Chile, New Zealand Natives, Gypsys, Native Americans and others who will tell you the same.

[BobbyBoring]

171. Thanks for that!

The poor in America are also constantly exploited. Prices for everything are higher in urban areas with low incomes. Their banks are pawn shops, pay day loan sharks, and title loan rip offs (If they are lucky enough to have a title). The only food they can afford is the least healthy.

I think years ago we had a hand in creating a permanent under class. Like every thing else, it comes back to haunt us!

[jeepnstein]

176. Point well-taken.

I know people who live under bridges and are huddling together for warmth. They're not immigrants, just out of resources.

I live in Appalachia. Multiple generations of families often live under the same roof for the very reasons you describe quite clearly. Somehow we are looked down upon by the rest of the country because of our notion of "kin".

[cyberpj]

155. Dumbed down, fattened up and misinformed by corporate media

- most of our youngsters are ill-educated in civics and politics and history, not to mention intentionally distracted by iTechnology, Infotainment as news and 300 plus TV channels with mostly ridiculously frivolous programming.

and most of our adults are exhausted trying to hang onto a home and/or working several jobs trying to send their kids to college for high paying jobs that may no longer exist in their future.

As for me, I did my bit in the 60's and tried to educate my children with 'Question Everything' and 'Power Corrupts' but even they grew to look at me as a crazy old hippy, out of touch with today's reality.

Unless the politically educated youth help educate the hypnotized youth into reality I don't see much hope. Sorry.

See also:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x340843

[vim876]

180. As an American...

...who is fairly well-educated in civics/politics/history, I find it offensive that you think body weight has anything to do with how I feel about politics (other than fat politics). Is body snarking really necessary here?

[cyberpj]

188. I'm referring to the proliferation of fattening foods in the US food supply for the poor

- dollar meals at McDonalds and others, the proliferation of high fructose corn syrups in just about anything and everything we buy, the food industry that knowingly continues to use these methods knowing well how addictive the high fat, sugar and salt contents are so that they will continue to have a steady stream of customers to buy their cheap drugs who, many times, cannot afford to purchase more fresh and healthy options.

I think it's fairly well known Americans are known as fatties around the world, stop and take a look at a pretty large chunk of mostly the poor in this country and I think you'd agree that when they couldn't hook people with alcohol or cigarettes they went for the fast-food lovers.

And it's not only my opinion but my personal experience as a fatty for many years that I not only moved less but took a much lazier role in my own life AND that of my country's. As long as I had food on the table or could run down to the corner for it I was happy.

Not saying that's true for all but it was for me, and many many of the other fatties I knew.

[irislake]

158. Exactly

what?

[tjwash]

162. You haven't actually been to Egypt in the last 20 years, have you?

Because anyone that has actually seen first hand the abject squalor, poverty, and cheapness of human life that has been present there for decades, even CENTURIES, would never make such a stupid-assed statement.

To even casually compare what is happening in Egypt, to present day events in the U.S. is abject ignorance of such magnitude, it is actually stunning.

[RegieRocker]

178. No. it's unbelievable that you think all of the

US has to be exactly like Egypt for it to be a concern. It does not. Go peddle you clap trap somewhere else.

[bvar22]

173. When the Working Class & The Poor....

When the Working Class & The Poor realize we have more in common with each other
than we have in common with the Ruling Elite of BOTH political Parties,
we can DEMAND "change".
WE outnumber THEM.

A long as TPTB and their mouthpieces can maintain the illusion of "choice",
and keep the national debate framed between the very narrow bookends of Democrat vs Republican,
where conservative Democrats (Obama, Hillary) represent the "Liberal" Left edge,
the Status Quo will be maintained.

Things will have to get worse before they get better.

South & Central Americans have given us the Blue Print for REAL "change".
The Populist reforms sweeping across Latin America (unreported or demonized in the USA) give me hope for The World.
"They" have shown us how.

VIVA Democracy!
I pray we get some here soon!

[chrisa]

182. "Revolt for me! I want to watch it happen from the comfort of my own home!"

Is basically what all of these, "Americans are lazy / stupid / complacent / sheep" threads, and statements in general mean. Sorry, but any way you look at it, it's true.