Is it a fair analogy to say if the govt. can force military service, then why can't

[Hawaii Hiker]

it make people buy health insurance?..Or is it apples to oranges?..

Yes, there's no draft but 18 year olds still are required to register for the Selective Service...I'm sure there were plenty of people who objected to the Vietnam War who ended up in Southeast Asia...

[Possumpoint]

1. Faulty Logic

When the draft existed, only 18 year old and older males were involved. A somewhat narrow segment of society. The question is can the Federal Government require everyone to have or buy health insurance?

[WinkyDink]

2. Completely bizarre.

[alc]

3. depends on your interpretation of the commerce clause

Actually it will depend on the SC's interpretation.

The Constitution gives the federal government the power to "raise and support Armies" and "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers". So forcing military service seems be be a power given to the feds.

The commerce clause says " To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes"

The 10th amendment says "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

If the commerce clause can be used to force purchase of a private product, then the 10th amendment gives the federal gov't the power to require purchase of health care. If not, that power is reserved for states since it is not prohibited (e.g. car insurance is required by states).

Or you can go with Hamilton's opinion (and others) that the general welfare clause supercedes everything else and there are no limits to federal power. That opinion scares me in general so I'd rather have a different connection to the Constitution for any laws passed. I'm not willing to pick and choose which laws are "good enough" to use the "general welfare clause" approach because I don't trust DC to be very smart in determining "good enough" (e.g. could be use for "the patriot act" and worse)

[WinkyDink]

4. "Hamilton's opinion," as in Alexander? Worthless. Only Right-Wingers try to use letters, essays,

etc., other than the CONSTITUTION to argue legal points with.

[alc]

6. Yes, Alexander

He used the general welfare clause when he argued to the president then congress (not just letters, essays) that his banking bills were constitutional. His letters suggest he had a backup argument that could tie the banking bills to the enumerated powers but wanted to set the precedent that the general welfare clause allows anything. The clause is part of the Constitution, so a broad interpretation allows almost anything to be constitutional.

A lot of people on the left supporting health care reform seem to be happy arguing that general welfare is a good enough basis. I don't think it's a left/right thing. It's an "if I agree with your bill you can use 'general welfare' argument and if not you can't" thing.

[treestar]

5. There they can use Congress' power to raise armies

Though it does not say anyone can be forced into it - there may be case law on that as someone likely challenged it in the Vietnam era.

The HCR would have to be valid under a different power, most likely the commerce clause.

[Statistical]

7. Enumerated powers. Do schools not cover the Constitution/federalism anymore?

The never ending false analogies (no offense OP you are just number 100 in a long line of failed analogies).

The Constitution defines what the federal government can do. It is a LIMITING DOCUMENT. The States pre-existed the federal government and fearing tyranny them specifically limited what the federal govt can do.


Everything in the world can be broken into three categories:
* Delegated Powers (also called Enumerated Powers) - Powers defined by the Constitution as delegated to the federal government.
* Prohibited Powers - Powers that are completely prohibited by the government (warrantless searches, banning firearms, state run media, etc)
* Reserved Powers - EVERYTHING ELSE is reserved by the States & the People.

The Constitution defines what the Federal govt can do via Delegated/Enumerated Powers. It also defines something which are completely off limits. EVERYTHING ELSE belongs to the States & People.

Just because Congress can do X doesn't mean it can do Y. The delegated power to raise an Army and provide for national defense hardly grants the Congress power to mandate citizens buy goods & services from third parties.