From Jeremy Schahill: "This is the real Mubarak" Update: 3 Dead in Tahrir Square!

[sabrina 1]

This is so reminiscent of Tiananmen Square. First they allowed them to protest, then they mowed them down. I really, really hope this doesn't happen here.

President Obama has expressed outrage over the violence, said Robert Gibbs. I do believe the U.S. are now very angry as Mubarak is ignoring their signals that it might be time to prepare for 'an orderly transition'.

Tony Blair declares Mubarak to be a very brave and strong Leader!!

@jeremyscahill
jeremy scahill
Just spoke to my friend @sharifkouddous in #Egypt: "This is the real Mubarak, the world is just seeing it now on TV"

Gunshots are now being fired near the Museum, reports say. Hundreds injured, one dead so far.

Same old deceptive tactics we see here all the time. Bus in 'protestors'.

@dskfjds
fdslkjfds
#Egypt Gov't employees were SHUTTLED to pro-#Mubarak protests; just like American healthcare companies SHUTTLING employees to townhalls

Now Egypt's state TV is claiming that Hamas is part of the anti-Mubarak protest. Who are they getting advice from? What utter garbage. I hope they don't expect to be taken seriously. Sounds like some of our Neocons are giving him advice now.

Protesters begging people not to watch CNN or Fox who are not telling the truth about the protests.


Many people now calling what is happening in Tahrir Square 'A Bloodbath'.

Code Pink has activists on the ground in Cairo. You can see their great photos HERE

CODEPINK Peace Activists Join Egyptians on the Ground in Cairo

The activists report that Egyptians have been excited to see their message of solidarity from the American people. Many Egyptian protesters are carrying signs that say "My address is Tahrir square until Mubarak leaves" and they are holding firm. The activists also report that many Egyptian youth seem ecstatic that President Obama has acknowledged their voice in Egypt's political affairs but they want him to put more pressure on Mubarak to step down.

Women are in the streets and have played a major role in the grassroots movement for democracy in Egypt. Today, as violence towards peaceful demonstrators escalates, the activists said rumors have circulated that the pro-Mubarak agitators are paid supporters of the dictator....


CODEPINK is calling on the President, State Department, and Congress to stop funding the Mubarak regime, which currently receives over $1.8 billion dollars in military assistance annually from the US.

@pipelazaro
Juan Felipe Lázaro
Straight to genocyde. #Egypt international community do something about it .

This is our 'friend and ally' that the Egyptian people know so well exposing himself as the brutal dictator he is.

Shame on the U.S. for their decades-long support of these brutal dictators.

INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

[tabatha]

1. Minister of Antiquities

Minister of Antiquities, on Al Jazeera, says Mubarak should quit, accuses him of wanting to 'burn down all of Egypt' http://bit.ly/gSJl6M

[sabrina 1]

2. Thanks, I think he will burn it down rather than let go.

He is an arrogant, brutal man and this is what happens, these are the people the U.S. has been supporting, liars, murderers, torturers. WHY! Why is this country supporting these sick, sick people?

[lonestarnot]

45. Looks like they will burn him down first.

[robinlynne]

50. for the same reason bush was in the white house for 8 years? greed.

[molly77]

57. And we have been supporting him the whole time he was in office

Israel says he is a stabilizing influence. WE are a dictatorship propping up another one, Israel.This is what WE do all over the world. Haitti had a democratically elected president and WE kidnapped him and installed a dictator. WE are Fascist!

[gateley]

53. Is that Zahi Hawass? If so, I'm surprised - and impressed! I would have thought

he was all buds w/Mubarak. I know he likes to kind of make sure his interpretation of Egypt's history is the story that gets told.

(Link didn't work for me)

[sabrina 1]

3. Mubarak supporters on DU?

Unlike other people here, I like the unrec button. It lets us know that even on this democratic board there are people who oppose progressive ideals. I prefer to know that. For a long time I fooled myself thinking that all democrats shared the same ideals, support for human rights being one of the most important. That was naive I know now.

[sabrina 1]

4. Mubarak's thugs are not quitting.

@ASLANmedia
Reza Aslan
RT @glcarlstrom: Pro-Mubarak rioters are now driving a bus intoa crowd of anti-government protesters in Tahrir. #egypt

[sabrina 1]

5. Three people now dead in Tahrir Square.

Egyptian Minister of Health: three killed in Tahrir Square. Al-Jazeera madecial resoucres: thousands injured. #Egypt #Jan25

[leftstreet]

6. K&R

Wow, didn't know that about Code Pink

Thanks for all the updates

[sabrina 1]

7. Check out their photos. They are absolutely beautiful. So many

women there too. Code Pink were on their way to Gaza but couldn't get there so they are staying in Cairo with the protestors.

[leftstreet]

8. That truck...

"Leave us, that's The End"

Great photos!

[sabrina 1]

9. Yes, 'leave us' ~ but he's not going and he apparently has

plenty of support from the west and their other 'close friends' are going to help him survive it seems :cry:

The photos are wonderful. Those Code Pink women put their bodies where their mouths are. Sad they don't have more support in this country. But I love their bravery and willingness to put themselves on the line for what they believe in.

[sabrina 1]

10. They are blocking medical supplies now!

RT @Imans_: People on way to give medical supplies to #Tahrir GOT STOPPED & CONFISCATED NO SUPPLIES GETTING IN! #jan25 #Egypt #humanrights

And people now believe that some of the Pro-Mubarak supporters are from the prisons:

@watchpalestine
Watching Palestine
Now we know why Mubarak Gov did nothing about prison escapes, #jan25 #Egypt #Humanright

[sabrina 1]

11. Reports that protesters may have beaten back Mubarak's thugs.

Reporters speaking to 'Pro-Mubarak' thugs state that they claim to be working for Government owned businesses and were paid to go out and 'support' Mubarak.

[Turborama]

12. Reuters: Over 1,500 wounded in central cairo clashes - doctor

Feb 2 (Reuters) - More than 1,500 people were injured in Cairo on Wednesday in clashes between supporters and opponents of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, a doctor at an emergency clinic set up at the scene told Reuters.

From: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/02/egypt-protests-casualties-idUSLDE7112LH20110202

[myrna minx]

13. Oh god.

:-(

[lovuian]

14. Violence is inevitable if Mubarek does not leave

and he will leave

[sabrina 1]

15. I hope you're right. He's a very stubborn and narcissistic man

I hope he leaves before any more people die.

[Turborama]

16. AJE Reporter just said the Mubarak mob are very organized, are building massive barricade &

smashing street lights & piling up stones. Apparently it looks like they are just about to make a massive attack.

Streets surrounding the square are blocked and the protesters are trapped.

[sabrina 1]

17. Omg, I knew he would not go away peacefully.

I guess this was just temporary then ~ :cry:

@NickKristof
Nicholas Kristof
Astonishing that pro-democracy folks seem to have won the day at #Tahrir! Is #Mubarak now incompetent even at repression?

[Turborama]

18. Yep, a guy on the phone from in side the square was saying just now they are just holding

their ground.

I fear you might be right, China style massacre imminent.

BTW British PM David Cameron has said something I thoroughly agree with for the 1st time: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4719724

[sabrina 1]

21. Surprised he said that ~ but what if Mubarak survives?

Will they still support him? We have 'interests' in the region :sarcasm:

[Turborama]

19. Faux are describing the pro-Mubarak mob who are attacking the pro-democracy guys as "the military"

I kid ye not: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02/02/egyptian-military-calls-end-demonstrations-1705880116/

[sabrina 1]

20. Well, is anyone listening to Faux anymore since they put

Egypt on the wrong continent?

[sabrina 1]

22. The protesters have driven Mubarak thugs back. For now.

BreakingNews Breaking News
Mubarak supporters in full retreat from Tahrir Square, #Egypt; some shots fired - Richard Engel, NBC
33 minutes ago

The army is laying down smoke screens to let the thugs escape.

[sabrina 1]

23. Another protester has been killed.

[sabrina 1]

24. Gunfire still being heard. I don't know if this refers to the

three people already killed, or if three more people have just been killed by the gunfire ~ it's not really clear but it's from a few minutes ago:

@BreakingNews
Breaking News
3 #Egypt anti-government demonstrators killed as gunfire rings out in Tahrir Square, Cairo - AP

[sabrina 1]

25. Four people have been killed tonight.

Don't know who is shooting ~

[sabrina 1]

26. Army Officer Cries As Protesters Attacked. Beautiful, sad photo.

@3arabawy
Hossam عمو حسام
An army officer weeps after protesters were attacked by Mubarak's thugs today in Tahrir http://twitpic.com/3vvqeg #jan25

http://twitpic.com/3vvqeg

I heard today that the army is being ordered not to step in to protect the protesters. An Al Jazeera reporter overheard a conversation on the phone between an army officer and his commanders. He was asking what he should do, explaining the violence that was taking place. The reporter said the officer looked shocked at whatever the response was. Apparently theor orders are not to intervene as the thugs begin the slaughter.


The photo above is hearbreaking. He clearly wants to help but is under orders not to.

[snappyturtle]

29. If you read down below the pictures into the posted comments it

seems the soldier may have been tear gassed and the man in white is a doctor. You can see what looks like the ear piece of a stethoscope on the 'doctor'.

[sabrina 1]

33. Yes, I saw that comment

The other person does seem to be a doctor, I agree. People were very disappointed in the army today, but I read that they are being held back by the higher command. The comment may be right, but it would not be a surprise to see a member of the army crying considering what happened today and how for days, the people have welcomed them and expected them to protect them from Mubarak's thugs. If the soldier has family and/or friends among the protesters, and that is very possible, I could understand him being very emotional about what they are being forced to do.

I hope they make up their minds to stand with the people. But I am sure they must follow orders or risk being charged with treason should Mubarak survive.

[sabrina 1]

27. Updating the title. 7 people are now dead today.

[suffragette]

28. Yep, the real Mubarak

and his government.

Did you see the segment Couric did on CBC tonight?
Two interviews were powerful in very different ways.

One was with Marie Colvin:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/02/eveningnews/main7311439.shtml
No stranger to conflict, Marie Colvin of the Sunday Times lost her eye covering the Sri Lankan civil war. She was in thick of things as pro-Mubarak supporters converged.

"They came with pieces of machinery, they came with rocks, they came with knives and they came to try to clear Tahrir Square of the anti-government supporters who have started fighting back but were bloodied in the beginning," Colvin said. "They are now chopping up the pavement to throw rocks back it is mayhem down there."

"Did the Mubarak government orchestrate this," Couric asked.

"This has been organized on some level by the Mubarak government," Colvin replied. "They were bused in. Some of them were paid. Quite a few are government employees and that simply does not happen in Egypt without official sanction."

Another was with Ibrahim Kamel, General Secretariat of Mubarak's administration. You have to go to the link, then view the video since it was as much his demeanor as his words that were chilling. As shots rang out, he didn't even flinch.

[sabrina 1]

30. No, I didn't see Katie Couric's interview. Thank you for the links

suffragette, I am going to watch them now. I am very glad the truth is being told. Earlier it was the usual MSM 'moral equivalent' type reporting with reporters hesitant to 'blame' the violence on Mubarak's thugs. It is infuriating to watch the U.S. media as they seem to report on stories like this based on what it will mean to 'American Interests' rather than on the facts.

I will go watch Ibrahim Kamel, I know these are people who would not hesitate to slaughter thousands of people in order to 'save face' and stay in power.

[suffragette]

32. Looks like he is a major backer of Gamal Mubarak

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2010/08/egypt-who-is-sponsoring-coalition-promoting-presidents-son.html
NDP spokesman Ali Eddin Helal rushed to reject any links to the campaign, stressing that the party neither endorses nor finances the coalition, which is headed by independent activist Magdi Kurdi.

But a few weeks later, the coalition's assistant coordinator, Iglal Salem, claimed that the NDP Policies Committee official and businessman Ibrahim Kamel provided the campaign with about $350,000.

[sabrina 1]

34. I just watched those two interviews. You are right, it was chilling

to listen to him. He sounds so certain that you know the only way he could be that certain is if they crack down the way the Chinese did at Tiananmen Sq.

The only way to remove Mubarak may be to arrest him. I cannot see him going willingly. It's not in his personality. And by now he must be furious.

It seems that Gamal has left Egypt. According to reports anyhow. But Mubarak might have had a change of heart and decided to stay.

Most people seem to think that Friday will be very violent. And some have said that that is the day the Army must decide whose side they are on, the people's or the dictator's.

Thanks again for the links, suffragette.

[suffragette]

37. That was my take as well

The text of what he said does not capture his tone of knowing approval of the violence taking place, but it was pretty clear in watching and listening to him - all in the way he said it.

Thursday and Friday are the turning points and the Army are the major factor.



As to Gamal, there was an odd piece on the Guardian's blog on Feb 2. The wording was confusing and the comment it refers to is somewhat different than what is written there, and the commenter raises a ggod point not brought up in the blog. I haven't listened to the audio referenced, so can't speak to its accuracy. They have a link embedded there.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/feb/02/egypt-protests-live-updates

7.19pm: The UK foreign secretary, William Hague, was on BBC Radio 4's PM programme and said he has spoken to Gamal Mubarak today (thanks to @cornelia23) in the comments section but said the president's son is in "Egypt...not in London". There has been speculation as to his whereabouts amid no public appearances or comments from him.
Hague told PM:

In the last hour I have spoken to the president's son Gamal Mubarak and said that if it turned out that there was state-sponsored violence that would be catastrophic for Egypt and for those in the government now

Comment doesn't say Egypt,, just not in London:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2011/feb/02/egypt-protests-live-updates?commentpage=17#comment-9407957

cornelia23
2 February 2011 5:26PM
On Radio 4 just now William Hague saying he just spoke to Mubarak's son Gamal about all this. ......one has to wonder why ? and also how he can reach him when no one else seems to know where he is.
On asked where Gamal was Hague hesitated for a while and said "he was on the phone" and seemed to be amused by his reply and then said " he isn't in London, if that's what you mean "

These people are in govt. It is all a game to them.


But really good point about why is Hague calling Gamal and how he knows where to reach him.

[sabrina 1]

40. Excellent post, as usual, suffragette. And good catch on

Hague knowing where to reach him.

This is a bit vague In the last hour I have spoken to the president's son Gamal Mubarak and said that if it turned out that there was state-sponsored violence that would be catastrophic for Egypt and for those in the government now

When I first read it I thought he meant Gamal was the one who said state-sponsored violence would be catastrophic for Egypt. But I believe he meant he, Hague, said that. So, it sounds like he was trying to prevent them from committing genocide.

If that happens, and truly hope it doesn't, then the only thing to do is to declare him a war criminal and issue a warrant for his arrest. I am sure the ICC could do that. There is no way he could stay in power if he was wanted for genocide, not for long anyhow.

But no matter what happens, there is no way now that the U.S. can support him again. They will have to cut off financial support after what happened today. Things cannot go back to the way they were.

Now I see why this administration kept telling them to let the people demonstrate, asking for 'restraint' from 'both sides' (we always have to pretend that there is some moral equivalency between our evil friends and those who rise up against them). They were hoping this would all die down and everything could stay the way it was with a few crumbs thrown to the people. But they knew if he attacked the people in front of the world, they would have to cut him loose, and they really did not want to do that.

Hillary expressed 'shock and outrage' at the violence today. A little late, as Mubarak's thugs have been brutalizing their people for decades. But I think things are going to have to change now. Maybe we could start supporting democracies for a change?

[suffragette]

51. Gamal is in Egypt!

Saw just now at end of Amanpour's article on her interview with Mubarak.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/egypt-abc-news-christiane-amanpour-exclusive-interview-president/story?id=12833673&page=2

Gamal, his son, was sitting in the room with us as he said this.

[sabrina 1]

55. Thank you for that suffragette. So now we know for sure he is still

in Egypt.

[sabrina 1]

31. Eight now confirmed dead in today's and last night's (in Egypt) fighting.

[kas125]

35. Evidently, it's standard proceedure to let people protest for

a while, then move in on them. After the RNC in St. Paul, I read that the police were told to let us do what we were doing for 30 minutes and then move in. And that's just what they did. On the second day, CodePink went singing through the streets. We had a great time and a few young people joined us. We walked, we sang, we stopped and sang, and the entire time the cops were walking beside us. After thirty minutes or so, I noticed that they'd surrounded us on three sides with a wall on the fourth side. Then they started moving in on us, pushing, shoving, screaming and eventually arresting several of us.

[sabrina 1]

36. So it's a strategy, in police states?

I was worried, as were many people, about the way they were leaving the people alone yesterday. It seemed too good to be true. And I guess it was :cry:

I remember Tiananmen Square and how they allowed the protests to go on and everyone thought they were not going to harm them, that something good was happening. I was very naive at that time and was absolutely horrified and in disbelief when they began to kill them.

I am a bit worried about all the photos too, if Mubarak survives this. They will go through them, as the Chinese Govt. did to identify people. He must not win this or there will be a second bloodbath and people locked away in prison, tortured for years.

So the people must win ...

[kas125]

38. It's certainly what they did to us, so I'm assuming that's

what they always do now. I'm exhausted and need to go to bed, but there are videos that were posted on youtube that show pretty much exactly what they did to us, I'll find them and send them to you tomorrow.

[sabrina 1]

39. Thank you, I would love to see them.

Get some sleep ~ and thanks for all you do ~ :-)

[gateley]

54. ....

:scared:

We've (or I've) been encouraged that the Army appears to be on "our side" - maybe not?

I guess we won't know until we know. Conjecture can give us false hope or false negatives, or it can be right on. Just gotta see how it plays out. I ACHE for those people!

:grouphug:

[sabrina 1]

41. Hillary's statement today:

Clinton Condemns 'Shocking' Egypt Violence In Call To Suleiman

WASHINGTON (AFP) -- America's top diplomat Hillary Clinton condemned " shocking" bloody clashes that rocked the Cairo stronghold of anti-government protesters Wednesday, in a call to Vice President Omar Suleiman.

As heavy gunfire rang out in Cairo's Tahrir, or Liberation, Square in the early hours Thursday, the State Department said Clinton had called Suleiman, telling him violence that left at least three dead Wednesday "was a shocking development after many days of consistently peaceful demonstrations."

Why are they shocked? It's not like he suddenly changed ....

[sabrina 1]

42. I don't know if this is true or not

@ellozy
Ahmed
confirmed from hospital : over 35 dead from last nights massacre #mubarak #jan25

There were reports of sniper fire earlier ~ and the army has moved between the protesters and the Mubarak thugs according to reports. I hope it is not true. What a scumbag Mubarak is. He knows he's finished so what is the purpose of this? All it does is make him a criminal who will most likely be charged with crimes against humanity.

[sabrina 1]

43. The army is now protecting the protesters:

@BreakingNews
Breaking News
Egyptian army tank, personnel push Mubarak loyalists away from Cairo protest group - Reuters

[sabrina 1]

44. Now the Egyptian Government is talking to the protesters ~

@BBCWorld
BBC Global News
Prime Minister Shafiq says government is in dialogue with anti-Mubarak protesters in Cairo's Tahrir Square
1 hour ago via Tweet

[sabrina 1]

46. Egyptian military rounding up foreign journalists?

@BBCWorld
BBC Global News
Egyptian military reportedly rounding up foreign journalists near Tahrir Square saying it's for their own protection, from AP

Why round up journalists? Why not round up the thugs who might threaten them?

[sabrina 1]

47. Army vanished, says Al Jazeera reporter and blogger!

@glcarlstrom
Gregg Carlstrom
Pro-democracy protesters have advanced their barricades about 20 yards. Front lines now very close, army has vanished. #jan25 #egypt

I wonder what that means? The army has said it would fire on the Pro-Mubarak thugs but not on the people. Clearly they were under orders not to interfere yesterday and stood by as the violence escalated against peaceful protesters. Then early this morning they were getting between the thugs and the pro-democracy demonstrators. Now, they've 'vanished'.

I wonder if that is an ominous sign ~

[sabrina 1]

48. Pro-democracy protestors gaining on Mubarak thugs.

@glcarlstrom
Gregg Carlstrom
Pro-Mubarak thugs slowly being pushed back along Corniche towards state TV building. Pro-democracy guys erecting barriers as they advance.

[femrap]

49. I'd bet money that

kkk rove is advising the dicktator of what to do. Mubarak is simply making this worse. Shit, he's 82....retire already.

Glad to see Code Pink involved....best Activist Organization ever.

[gateley]

52. Coming to you from the future, sabrina 1 - suffragette referenced your thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x340543#340719

EXCELLENT OP, sabrina 1! And follow-up posts, too! :headbang:

And thanks to suffragette! :hi:

[sabrina 1]

56. Thank you gateley!

And suffragette to :-)

[sabrina 1]

58. Meant to say, thank you gately