36 year old single mom is organizing the whole thing in Egypt

[underpants]

Richard Engel just now on Rachel's show

Using cell phones as much as she can.

"school teacher from you can't see it but from just over the Nile River" ...."living on coffee and cigarettes"... "trying to herd cats" ..."with limited communications as they have".... "lets go today no she said lets wait until our numbers are larger"

Amazing.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[sabrina 1]

3. There were women in burqas at the demonstrations also.

Some women are traditional and like to wear traditional clothing. It does not always mean anyone is 'keeping them in burqas'. One of my friends from the ME laughed at the idea that people in the west have so little understanding of ME women. She has several degrees, several children a great job which takes her to Europe often, and she chooses to wear traditional clothing sometimes. I asked her if her husband would be upset if she wore, eg, blue jeans. She said if he would be upset over that, he would be in a permanent state of being upset.

ME women are pretty strong and I will always remember when Karen Hughes went to the ME and deliviered what she probably was told by the ignorant Bush gang, was a speech meant to 'empower ME women'. They were shocked and ultimately insulted that she patronized them, implying that they were unable or not allowed to make decisions for themselves. She's not the brightest individual around and I guess that was obvious to those very well-educated women. Her stereo-typing of them made her look like a fool.

[Cleita]

4. Karen Hughes is just a horrid, provincial woman with

no use for anyone who isn't exactly like the inbred gene pool and culture she came out of.

[Kalyke]

13. New term for the rich: Puppy Milled.

They're devoid of character, insane whilst appearing pure and devoid of rationale.

They're bred of money and raised in cages.

[blondeatlast]

5. +1 and thank you. nt

[bettyellen]

6. Q: are unmarried women w/ children welcome in many mosques in Eqypt?

completely honest question, I always thought they would not be. I'll look into it.

[hlthe2b]

9. This blonde haired American woman was welcomed into a

Egyptian mosque. I was dressed conservatively with long sleeves and longish skirt and was asked to wear a scarf as a head covering. I was treated respectfully and with interest. I traveled all over Egypt when I lived and worked there--frequently alone. Never with other Americans. I was always treated well and with respect and interest. Yes, young men would sometimes be overly flirtatious, but never like women experience in Italy and many other European countries.

[bettyellen]

11. As a visitor you were, I knew that would be about the case.... I mean as a fully accepted and

respected person born and raised in their society. I still don;t know the answer to that.

[Kalyke]

15. That's only respectful!

I understand challenging establishment, but when one seeks knowledge, one should be respectful - whether that's through dress, manner, etc.

I don't go to a proper dining establishment in a bathing suit, why would I go to a house or worship in less?

You did good! :hug:

[Kalyke]

14. I was, but I have a half Muslim son.

And I filed a fault divorce against his cheating father (who happened to be raised in the Muslim faith).

Even in Islam, the first wife can say, "HELL NO," to any subsequent wives, but we lived (live) in the United States, where it didn't matter.

I took my son to the local Mosque, because his "dad" (also a deadbeat who hasn't paid child support in more than a year) never did.

They had no problem with it.

[bettyellen]

16. that's good to hear (except for the deadbeat part) but I still haven't heard what it means to live

there and be a divorced single mom. not trying to bust anyone's chops, but that is what I expressed curiousity about. Anyway.. going to sleep. During which time, I am sure someone will come along and set me straight. LOL.
Thanks for sharing.

[hlthe2b]

8. Exacty...+10000000

It is so distressing that some refuse to believe that women in the moderate Muslim countries make their own choices. I keep reading posts here that make it sound like Egyptian women are akin to Saudi or even Afghani women and that the men are just waiting for their chance to turn the country into an Islamic theocracy so that they can subjugate the women. After years living and working in these countries, as well as a shorter term stint in Saudi Arabia and teen years in Iran with my parents, I leaves me incredulous that so many Americans know so little about women in the ME (and refuse to believe anything other than their sterotypical impressions.)

[sabrina 1]

10. Thank you ~ America is very isolated from the rest of the world.

And in the interests of the great war on terror, as the Wikileaks cables revealed, they use women to try to get sympathy for their wars. I wish people would travel more and I think considering the indoctrination in this country they have been subjected to, they would be shocked to find out how deceived the public here is, especially about the ME.

[Matariki]

17. That's all well and good - but you are ignoring the fact that in some places it's not a choice

or an option to do otherwise. Women are arrested and beaten for showing a little bit of wrist or ankle. No misunderstanding about it.

[sabrina 1]

18. In Egypt? I think you are thinking of Afghanistan. And why did that

happen in that country? If you know anything about the recent history of Afghanistan you know that it was, as late as the 'sixties, a pretty modern place. I have talked to friends in Europe, one couple eg, who spent their honeymoon there and saw women in Kabul wearing mini-skirts. Women were in the workforce, working as doctors, lawyers, teachers etc.

But then, the Superpowers decided to use their country as a chessboard to play their war games. They didn't have much say in it.

After ten, devastating years of war, the country was destroyed. Having accomplished their selfish goals, the U.S. left those unfortunate people in a country that was totally devastated, its whole infrastructure and civil society broken down.

There was crime everywhere, people were not safe, it was a completely destroyed country. Then into the vacuum stepped the Taliban, religious fundies, great fighters, and they created some order out of the chaos.

Without the interference of the West, the Taliban would never have had the opportunity to take over the country.

Women lost their rights, as is happening now in Iraq. Under Saddam women were educated and treated equally in the workplace. They could wear whatever they wanted to and go about their business as women do here. But now, once again thanks to our stupid wars, women have lost much of what they had under Saddam.

Everywhere we go and destroy another country, we create a climate that invites extremism.

So it's for people to sit here in the U.S. and point fingers at those countries. But they better remember that it was their governments who created the extremists. WE are responsible for Afghanistan and Iraq.

But Egypt is not Afghanistan. We have our own fundies right here who want to keep women 'in their place'. And there are plenty of groups right here in this country where women are second class citizens.

But I have no fear for the women of Egypt, UNLESS the U.S. decides to undermine the new government, which we have a bad habit of doing, and opens yet another door for extremism to walk through.

[Matariki]

19. Your post said Middle East & Middle Eastern woman - not specifically Egypt.

I'm thinking of a number of places in the middle east. I agree with much of what you are saying, however I would argue that it's unquestionable that in some places the burqa is not a matter of choice for women and the consequences for not wearing them are dire. I had a friend who spent time teaching in Uzbekistan and told of how men would throw stones and punch women on the street who weren't, in the opinion of their culture, properly covered up. That's just one example. While it's safe to say that most Americans don't understand ME culture - I wouldn't romanticize the whole area as being some sort of paradise for strong women.

[sabrina 1]

20. Uzbekistan is run by the brutal Dictator, Karamov, supported

and funded by the U.S. His thugs regularly abuse and torture the people there. We have no idea what the country would be like if it could topple that criminal. But with the U.S. supporting him with hundreds of millions of dollars each year, the people have no say. When they tried to rise up against him, he mowed them down a few years ago.

Uzbekistan is OUR responsibility. The Wikileaks cables show that the U.S. is fully aware of the brutal abuses practiced by our 'friend and ally' Karamov, but in the cables where it is adknowledged, the consensus is that we will continue to support him because 'he lets us build military bases in his country'.

You cannot judge the people's wishes in any country that is run by a brutal dictator. They are not allowed to speak, as was the case in Egypt and Tunisia, without risking torture and/or death.

When the U.S. stops strengthening these criminals and these countries can choose their own leadership, then we will know what the majority of the people really think.

In Egypt right now, we do know. They want a democracy. I know that in Uzbekistan the people tried to rise up and establish a government of their choice, but they were literally shot down.

Here in the U.S. we have many sects that oppress women also. But the world doesn't judge us by that small minority because so far, we are still a democracy where the majority of the people do not support those beliefs. But in dictatorships, the minority rules and it is unfair of us to judge the majority when they simply cannot tell us what they want.

[knowbody0]

2. lovely and amazing

[WhiteTara]

7. is she the woman in pink and blue?

I saw a video of a young woman leading a group of men in chanting. She was great. I think the video was called the Bravest Woman in Egypt.

[Hannah Bell]

12. nice story, but i doubt it. there were stories in the press about stuff going on as far back as

three years ago.

and in us government reports.