I am watching AC360 out of curiosity and I can't believe what I'm seeing

[Turborama]

Well, I can actually. It's not really surprising, but it is very disappointing.

The whole team are in Egypt (allowed to film freely, unlike Al Jazeera English - that should set anyone's alarm bells off straight away) and they are going on about the "looting", which most people know was carried out by Mubarak's thugs, and how frightened people are. Footage of a vandalized restaurant described as "look! looting!" on rotation.

Anyone who's been paying attention knows that's exactly what Mubarak intended; vanish all the police, release the secret service thugs (I've heard they have 750,000 in Egypt) & 1,000s of prisoners and make everyone so frightened they miss him.

Well, (even though AC360 are trying to perpetuate the myths) it seems like that tactic failed.

Now he's talking to two Americans who are "very nervous" and going on about the "looting" too. The woman just said she works for an Egyptian corporation, is very worried and now feels she couldn't go out into the city because she was frightened as a woman.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. In the meantime Rachel interviewed both Democracy Now

on the ground reporter (and former Cairo Native) and Al Jazeera's DC Bureau Chief.

MSNBC has been more responsible, and FOX has been alternatively funny or maddening.

[BeFree]

2. heh

Almost sounds as if they are trying to scare us back here in the states, eh?

Heck, ABC actually said "it's starting" in reference to higher oil prices.
Didn't know the people were blocking oil shipments along with ripping heads off the mummies, too, did ya?

M$M forbids that the people demand their rights:: too dangerous and scary. Can't have that.

[Catherina]

3. There's a reason CNN gets a live feed and Al Jazeera doesn't

Thanks for this information. I'm glued to AJ but now I know to avoid CNN at all cost.

[Turborama]

6. I'm taking one for the team.This is the 1st time I've been able to draw myself away from AJ English

For days.

John King is on now spreading his own special kind of fear.

Do. Avoid.

[Catherina]

8. And this is why we love you T. n/t

[Swede]

9. He just said the Obama administration is telling Mubarek to step down.

I wonder where Hosni is gonna go?

[Turborama]

11. Really? I didn't hear that. If that's true, it would be breaking news all over the place

[Swede]

13. That's what King just said.

He didn't say how he knew this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Ok so why is not breaking all over the place?

EVEN US media is not that stupid.

(By the by I would not be too shocked if that was an actual conversation off the record behind closed doors and not just Obama... Marcos comes to mind)

[Swede]

17. He said it so casually,too.

Maybe he blabbed something he wasn't suppose to?

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Keep an eye on CNN and how much they lose access

if he did.

Now me, watching the Factor, so you don't have too...

[Swede]

22. I feel your pain.

:toast:

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Posting on it on it's own thread

[sabrina 1]

94. You are all very brave. I consider watching Fox to be

torture. CNN is a milder form but torture nevertheless.

[Catherina]

It is. Quietly. You may begin the countdown now. Mubarak is finished n/t

[gateley]

51. I think he's wrong. If it were true and Obama 'announced' it, it would be headlines

everywhere, and I doubt he's gotten the exclusive inside scoop. Maybe that's just his interpretation? :shrug:

[bdamomma]

107. I am going with Al Jazeera on this one.

of course Mubarak has his thugs out looting, do you see this guy peacefully leaving office. He is the thug not to listen to the people, just makes me do this :puke:

[hlthe2b]

4. Maybe they can edit in the old "Katrina looting" footage...

Hell, they won't even have to leave NY. :eyes:

This is why I rarely discussed ME politics with family and friends when I returned to the US after my several ME work stints.... All they hear is US propaganda, which made me sound very "pollyannish" in their eyes. It was really depressing.

[pa28]

5. I was watching Wolf Blitzer earlier and had to turn it off.

Contrasting it with Al Jazeera's "just the facts" coverage they were telling what to think, explaining what it meant and showing just a few clips of events over and over to reinforce their points.

Eventually I had to watch something else because what's really disturbing is to realize how badly the American media has failed us in general. Not just with Egypt.

[neverforget]

44. I was watching CNN yesterday afternoon for a few minutes. It was one of their

business reporters who was interviewing someone on the ground in Egypt. She asked the guy "So the Egyptians are in the streets because of the heavy hand of the government in the Egyptian economy?" The guy responds "Uh no, it's because of the repression of basic freedoms."

::hurts: :argh: :banghead: That's our crack media whores in action.....

[Catherina]

7. Marching orders from their masters. This is really hilarious

This is really hilarious

I told you about how Saudi media are working hard to support Mubarak at all cost. It has reached comical level. The main headline of Ash-Sharq Al-Awsat (the mouthpiece of Prince Salman and his sons), says: "And Mubarak Responded to the Demands of the People." I kid you not. I KID YOU NOT.

Posted by As'ad at 7:01 PM

[gateley]

10. Haha! That is actually laughable! Problem is, Joe America buys it. nt

[Catherina]

19. Sadly yes. But Best sign ever. Nice thank you from Egypt

old U #Americans r amazing ppl once they find the truth abt an issue http://bit.ly/fTX6Xo

#jan25 #feb1 #Egypt 7 minutes ago via TweetDeck

I'm pretty sure he meant "all u"
His link is to an Arabic article about Google's new "speak to tweet" program.

[gateley]

28. Awww - that is so touching. I'm glad they know -- or will know -- that the whole

world is rooting for them. Sniff sniff, dab dab.

[Catherina]

31. They know, I'm so happy about that too. More good news.

endiaferon RT @endiaferon:

One SAT uplink donated so far to the Tor project for #Egypt. Donations: https://secure.avaaz.org/en/egypt_blackout/
#jan25 ♺ @ioerror less than a minute ago via web

This is wonderful news!

[gateley]

50. Fabulous! This just gets better - more encouraging - seemingly by the moment.

I wonder what time the million people marchers meet - or get going - or whatever one million people do! And, wonder what kind of coverage we'll get.

[bdamomma]

108. for something like this

I will donate.

[Turborama]

38. Is their "speak to tweet" like their "realtime"?

I don't use Twitter (yet, I'll probably succumb eventually but I just don't have enough time for it now) and am having fun putting different search terms into this: http://www.google.com/search?q=egypt+million+march&num=100&hl=en&sa=G&prmd=ivnsu&tbs=mbl:1&tbo=u&ei=w4xHTaGBDo3yrQe8n725BA&oi=realtime_result_group_more_results_link&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CEIQ5QUwAw

This is still the busiest one, I think: http://www.google.com/search?q=%23jan25+site:twitter.com&tbs=mbl:1&tbo=1&num=100&hl=en&sa=G&output=search&prmd=ivnsu&ei=I41HTZSREc_srQennfT7BA&ved=0CAYQsQcwAA

[Catherina]

49. I don't know realtime but people call up and the audio immediately on the web

As soon as they can, google translates it. They put out an urgent call for translators and I think they got them.

[Turborama]

54. Didn't I share the "Realtime" link with you a couple of days ago?

It's an excellent aggregator of tweets.

I like the sound of the way Google has stepped in, good on them!

[Catherina]

60. Oh that! Ok, now I know. I don't think so, not yet. Better yet, I don't know n/t

[anamandujano]

42. That is a beautiful sign.

So heartening.

[Catherina]

62. Heartening. That's a good word for it. n/t

[Catherina]

12. Is CNN TV reporting this

TachyglossusS RT @NicRobertsonCNN:

Mood on #Alexandria streets more determined than ever, now calling for #Mubarak execution not just his ouster
#egypt #jan25 half a minute ago via web

or this

jonjensen RT @jonjensen:

Hearing that a Spanish TV channel had their video cameras stopped at Cairo Airport by customs.
#Egypt #Jan25 #Mubarak half a minute ago via TweetDeck

So the US is going to manipulate the news the same way we manipulate elections?

or this?

Organica_

I wonder why Mubarak hasn't banned CNN reporting in Egypt while Aljazeera is currently banned
#Jan25 half a minute ago via Echofon

rich_pav RT @JosefusVoice: ♺ @exiledsurfer:

http://bit.ly/hKGwPy "FUCK #MUBARAK" spraypainted on #egypt tank #jan25 via @DannyRamadan
less than a minute ago via Ubuntu

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. I will point something out about all those signs in English

most Egyptians DO NOT read or understand English. Those are directed at ... US.

[Catherina]

23. Good point n/t

[Raksha]

85. That's understood--they know we're watching.

I hope they know most of us are cheering for them too.

[gateley]

14. That's disappointing - I always defend AC because he seems to really want

to get to the truth and tell it (like after Katrina). Is he himself there? He, and any real journalists, should know better than to eat that pablum. Sigh.

I saw a woman (American) leaving Egypt (must have been on AJ live) and she was pleasant, but was talking about how concerned she was and "As Americans, we're just not used to something like this". I thought, believe me, honey, this is the first these Egyptian people have experienced something like this, too -- it's not as though "that's what they do".

I can understand her concern, but not a thought about what was actually transpiring -- just me, me, me.

To be fair, I didn't sit down and talk at length with her, they may just have used that part of the interview for the clip.

[Catherina]

25. He's done good coverage in the past but this is different. They probably got marching orders

before being allowed to go.

The Spanish TV crew had it's equipment confiscated at the airport. CNN just waltzes in. :think:

[Turborama]

27. Yeah, I used to think he was OK but he's been trying to be "in the middle" too much..

...regarding US politics, thinks the Tea Party really are "grass roots" and totally ignored the historic floods in Pakistan which affected 2.5 million people (they're still suffering from it, btw).

And now this.

He is there, as are the rest of his team.

Your analysis in reaction to what that woman said nailed it with: "it's not as though "that's what they do"".

:hi:

[MadBadger]

16. I dont understand those who dismiss the looting as "Agents of Mubarak"

There are douchebags everywhere who want to take advantage of every crisis. They dont have to be on either side, they just take advantage of the situation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Because a few were ahem arrested by the crowd

with POLICE BADGES on them. More than just a few.

[Catherina]

26. Maybe "those" have been paying very close attention and know what they're talking about n/t

[Turborama]

29. Yep, those 5 very important words I added...

"Anyone who's been paying attention"

[leftstreet]

30. The funny thing is the Ruling Class loot all of us each day

But let just one Working Class peon pinch a loaf of bread anywhere on the planet and OMG OMG OMG LOOTERS!!!11

Can we say P r o j e c t i o n ?

[Catherina]

32. +1 n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Hey at least CNN has folks on the ground

Bill is going to interview Mr. Glenn Beck on what he would do about this...

:banghead:

Wrong smiley

[JI7]

34. Anderson just talked to some Americans who are there and they said the protestors

have been peaceful. and they even protected them when there was a large crowd coming down. he said they just want their freedom.

[Turborama]

35. They also said they were frightened and the woman said she couldn't go out now because she's a woman

I'll get the transcript later and add it.

[flamingdem]

36. AC played up the looting in Hait as well nt

[egressingsparrowdrop]

37. Well, if looting is occuring it's occuring. Can't ignore it.

And everybody does not know that all, or what portion of the looting is being carried out by Mubarek's thugs.

[Turborama]

39. Vandalism (wanton destruction) is different from "looting" (stealing) n/t

[egressingsparrowdrop]

45. I have read multiple reports that looting has occurred. You saw one picture

on CNN, decided it was simply vandalism, and are now condemning CNN for reporting on looting.

Looting is happening, though most protesters are not engaging in it and in fact trying to prevent it.

Still, it has and is happening...and the restaurant you saw may have had things stolen from it for all you know.

You sympathize with the revolution and would prefer that no looting occurred because it could hurt the cause. Nothing hurts a cause more than ignoring reality though.

[Turborama]

46. I have seen and listened to Egyptian witnesses for the past 4 days solidly

And know quite a lot about what's been going on, actually.

The predictions were being made before the full scale protests began on Friday: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x290311

Posted about it again on Saturday: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x301121

And Sunday: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x305920

I was commenting on CNN's editorializing of it. Describing what was clearly vandalism as "looting".

[egressingsparrowdrop]

47. I know, I know.

Just saying, looting is happening. If it comes out that police are involved it will be reported. CNN has no corporate interest in hiding that.

Nobody knows how much looting, exactly, has occurred at this point or how much Mubarek thug involvement there was. Just be careful not to accept a narrative wholly and completely because it's what you prefer.

[Turborama]

48. It has been reported

You think CNN is objective news?

I am a very politically astute and media savvy person, although you probably mean well, I don't need your advice.

Thank you anyway, and welcome to DU. :hi:

PS Check out my Journal to see how active Ive been on reporting events here: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Turborama

[egressingsparrowdrop]

61. There is no such thing as objective news

If you were such a media savvy person, you would know that.

What I said is CNN will report it, once they are satisfied it is true. That may take the form of a guest making the claim, which has already happened, yes.

CNN has no interest in hiding such information. Again, with all due respect, if you are so media savvy you would recognize that.

And thanks for the welcome

[Turborama]

63. I was asking you the question, not stating a fact.

Thanks for the answer. Due to my media savvy-ness I don't implicitly trust CNN as much as you seem to.

It's probably best to just leave it at that.

I hope you enjoy your time here.

[egressingsparrowdrop]

64. Your question implied that objectivity exists in journalism

and that you suspected I believed CNN might possess it.

You also now say that I have "trust" for CNN, implicit trust. You see this, somehow, because I've said that I don't believe CNN would hide or downplay evidence of Mubarek's people getting involved in looting.

I think you're confusing a general distrust of media with being "savvy." If you're not looking at the specifics of the situation you aren't savvy in the least.
Falsehoods and conspiracy exists. Recall the episode with FoxNews killing a story on growth hormones in milk a few years back. Terrible, clear evidence of the influence of corporate media on full and truthful journalism. Still, within that story we saw two journalists with integrity, who wanted to serve the public interest and tell the story as it needed to be told, and they eventually did.

Anyway, looting by Mubarek's secret police has been pretty scantily "reported" thus far. You provide this link as part of your evidence:
http://www.google.ca/search?q=Reports+have+confirmed+the+looting+is+being+done+by+the+secret+police+in+an+attempt+to+discredit+the+protesters&num=100&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&prmd=ivnsu&tbs=mbl:1&tbo=u&ei=x0dETdqKLYfqrQeR2pVQ&sa=X&oi=realtime_result_group_more_results_link&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q5QUwAA&redir_esc=&ei=0p5HTfKBEMOqlAf9-YmsBA
How are we to treat these tweets? How are they proof or evidence of anything?
You also linked to a report by a non-journalist with Human Rights Watch who writes that two looters were caught with police id cards. If he was a journalist he would have gotten their names and passed that on, and perhaps the name of the people who caught him. If it was a second-hand report then the name of who told him. As it is, he gives us nothing about how he discovered the information and nothing that we can use to establish the truth of it.

There's a reason the media doesn't roll out unsubstantiated reports like these. When they do they make more mistakes, become susceptible to bullshit peddlers, and lose credibility.

[Turborama]

65. No, it didn't "imply" anything. I was asking you what you thought.

Reports of the secret police "looting" is everywhere, if you could be bothered to check: http://www.google.com/search?q=secret+police+looting+egypt&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8

Just because CNN aren't reporting it yet doesn't mean it isn't happening. It means CNN don't want to report it.

The rest of your rant is just too patronizing to bother with.

I tried to be polite, now you're just up for an endless argument and I don't have time for it with someone I don't know.

Sorry.

[egressingsparrowdrop]

70. Consider

you provide a link to support that "reports of secret police looting is everywhere" and the top two results are Democratic Underground.

You want CNN to report that the secret police are doing the looting, based on what? On some tweets? On a story told by an emergency worker that doesn't include any details/names/nothing?

Sorry if it came off as patronizing. After your claim of being a "very media savvy person" you'd be up for a little critical thought about news/information/media.

Have you ever worked in a newsroom? Studied journalism? Somehow I doubt it.
If you were a journalist, willing to give weight to anonymous tweets and unverified reports with zero detail, your viewers/readers would soon abandon you.

The comment "It means CNN don't want to report it" shows how lacking you are in the media savvy department. The idea that CNN would verify such information and not want to report it is just goofy.

But you are right about one thing. Just because CNN isn't reporting it doesn't mean it's not happening. .

[Turborama]

71. I gave you a link to my Journal

There are pages and pages of posts I've made over the past 2 1/2 years. You can judge for yourself by looking at them how media savvy I am.

Look at the google search I just gave you, http://www.google.com/search?q=secret+police+looting+egypt&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8

the BBC are reporting it. Do you trust CNN more than you trust the BBC?

I am researching, writing and watching/listening to live witnesses talking about their experiences in Egypt right now and do not have time for your insults.

There really is no need to make this personal. I don't appreciate a lecture about my integrity from someone I don't know.

A word of advice. You should read DU's rules about personal attacks before you carry on.

[egressingsparrowdrop]

75. I looked at what you provided me already

If you're researching, watching, and listening to "live" (I hope you meant "eye") witnesses, then why didn't you provide those links.

The BBC link is to DU, where a poster said he just heard something on BBC and he links to the live feed. No good for you if you're looking to provide evidence to others.

Further down in that link, though, are reports from other media sources that include some names of people saying they witnessed captured looters with police id cards. I suggest you use those ones in future.

And I've already judged how media savvy you are. I don't need to look deeper into your journal.

[Turborama]

82. The link is in my signature line. And yes they are eye witnesses.

I was reporting on the secret police ID cards thing as the news broke. The news stories you patronizingly "advise" me to use in the future came out later.

Good, you've judged my integrity already based on just a few posts when there's over 200 in my Journal. Go away and leave me alone.

Please.

See this picture? Click on it.

[egressingsparrowdrop]

86. Yes, I've seen that already. A live feed. Very good.

Keep watching. And if you're going to report on it, take down the names of the people doing the talking and provide all the disclosure you can (what time you saw it, did the person claim to be an eye-witness, etc.)

As far as your "integrity," I apologize if I used that word. I don't question your integrity. Your accuracy and reputation are shot in my eyes though.
I only had this thread to go on over the secret police ID cards, as well as the links you provided me later.

That's the thing about journalism...do a bad job once and your reputation is in the toilet. When you sent me to posts you'd done that make claims relying only on a google tweet search result and an emergency workers blog item with zero details, you shot your reputation in the foot as far as a good source of reliable information.

And I'm not patronizing you. I'm criticizing you. Don't be so sensitive.

[Turborama]

89. LOL, I'm a poster on DU. A discussion board. It's my hobby.

I've never claimed to be a "journalist".

Who the fuck are you? I don't give a shit what you think about my reputation.

Now, after your time wasting torrent of abuse I really am going to put you on "ignore".

This means I will not be notified of any replies you make to me, when you reply all I will see is "Ignored" and you are shunned. Permanently.

[egressingsparrowdrop]

91. You certainly put on a pretence of being some kind of journo

what with all your "I'm a very media savvy person" who does "research" and "doesn't need advice" and "you should go read my blog...it's got over 200 entries" talk.

Anyway, I will try and live with the shunning. Won't be easy, but we all do what we can.

[Dappleganger]

67. LOL, CNN also reads it's headlines directly from twitter.

They don't give a damn about what is true, only being "First!" and will bring the ratings.

[EFerrari]

53. It has come out that the police are involved, multiple reports.

CNN also has been reporting rioting when there has been no rioting and they've called the neighborhood watch teams "vigilantes". They're clearly trying to portray these people as dangerously out of control when in fact, they are directing traffic, working security at bridges, hospitals, and libraries, feeding both soldiers and neighbors stuck at watch positions, catching thieves (who mostly turn out to be police in plain clothes, lol) and generally looking out for each other. CNN has been disgusting.

[Turborama]

56. Hiya, Beth. Have you listened to Ms. Mona Eltahawy school CNN on this yet?

She's a well respected and award winning Egyptian journalist.

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x549109

And here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x549116

And check out her blog: http://www.monaeltahawy.com/blog/

She really speaks truth to power and is one of my new heroes.

(BTW I uploaded the second one to my YouTube so if you could click on the YouTube link and comment I'd really appreciate it. Please feel free to add me as a friend, too, if you like ;-) )

[EFerrari]

58. I've been following her tweets. For *you* I will watch the CNN segment.

lol

:hi:

[icnorth]

100. Not to mix metaphors or anything but

if it's caught looting while walking around carrying Security Police ID, there's a damn good chance it's a duck. :eyes:

[Turborama]

114. Undercover Egyptian police were among looters, hospitals tell Human Rights Watch

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x319877

[Turborama]

117. BBC: Egyptian 'Looters' found with secret police identification

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x306826

[Dappleganger]

66. Cue in memories of Katrina.

The story isn't about the looting, the story is about the people wanting real democracy in Egypt. The fact that AJE was given the boot should be a clue to everyone.

Mubarek is spinning his story so he can keep his power.

BTW, what realities are you ignoring because you are so caught up in this? Wouldn't be too hard to guess.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Oh trust me, CNN IS a jewel

here you go...the factor tonight

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=318551&mesg_id=318551

I have bailed...

[Still Sensible]

41. Amampour's report on ABC right now is excellent. n/t

[Turborama]

43. I could imagine it would be. Is it streamed live online for those of us who live outside of the US?

[Turborama]

96. Found it! It is an excellent report, as is the accompanying article...

I've found the vid on YouTube and posted them both in the videos forum: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x549410

[lonestarnot]

52. Has to be looting, their skin is not white enough for borrowing.

:crazy: Barfarama.

[Catherina]

55. or *finding*

[lonestarnot]

57. Oh yes, finding, that was it. Got them mixed up with the borrowers.

Senile these days. Too much from every direction and maintaining only a few directions. :P

[Catherina]

59. I didn't even notice. Your post made perfect sense n/t

[Dappleganger]

69. YES

That's what I posted earlier, this is just how the media handled the Katrina looters. THEY are not the story.

I knew the media was way off when all but AJE was reporting the prisoners had escaped (as in they broke out). AJE was reporting from a reliable local source that they had in fact been set free. But did CNN, FOX, etc. hold back until more facts were known?? No way.

[egressingsparrowdrop]

68. Unrec. You make a claim that you simply cannot make.

I've looked at the "reports" of Mubarek's thugs participating in the looting that you base your assertions on.

Although in my OPINION they probably are involved, the reports are anecdotal. We have no names, no eyewitness names, nothing.

However, even if we did have some solid evidence of even those two police a Human Rights Watch emergency director blogged about, that would be two.

Even if that was solid, you cannot say the following:

"the "looting", which most people know was carried out by Mubarak's thugs"

Most people do not "know" that Mubarek's thugs are carrying out the looting.

There is a lot we don't "know," and I'd prefer it if the journalists and bloggers I read for information state things as fact ONLY when they know they are fact, or give full disclosure about the information they're reporting.

The alternative is people with a dog in the race - a preference about the events - begin to state the things they don't know as fact.

[suffragette]

72. Here's a link with a roundup of several incidents

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/01/is-egyptian-government-using-agents.html

Source links are included at that page.

Not a comprehensive roundup, yet much more than "two."

There are several eyewitness names included.

The blog's author also includes some general and historic info on agents provocateur, including those caught in Quebec. Btw, some great threads about that incident were posted on DU.

Also, on Sunday's "This Week," Al Jazeera Washington Bureau Chief Abderrahim Foukara noted the similarity of what is occuring to what happened in Tunisia and also pointed out that many of the thugs in Tunisia were later found out to be government agents.

[Turborama]

74. Thanks Bookmarked. Seems like there's a lot of Mubarak defenders coming in & offering their 2 cents

Reminds me of what happened during the "Green Revolution". I really don't have any time for them and am just going to put them on ignore.

[suffragette]

81. Glad to contribute

to another of your helpful threads.


Here's the link to the video of the roundtable from "This Week"


http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/video/roundtable-crisis-egypt-12797225

And here's the segment from the transcript:
http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/week-transcript-crisis-egypt/story?id=12796399&page=3

TAPPER: Abed, do you think that it's possible that Mubarak is letting some chaos reign right now so that Egyptians, who basically want to live their lives, even if they want their freedoms -- they -- they don't want to die, they want their stores to be able to open on Sunday -- so that they embrace a -- a restoration of order, a martial law? Do you think it's possible that Mubarak is doing that?

FOUKARA: It is entirely possible. And should that be the case, what happened in Tunisia has proven the failure of that strategy, because we had a similar thing. After the president of Tunisia fled the country, there were bands of gangsters who in some cases turned out to be secret police or goaded by secret police to do that -- to undertake that -- that -- that sort of action in Tunisia. We've seen in Egypt militias of civilian Egyptians basically taking care of the protection of various places, such as the National Museum. So there is definitely that scenario in Egypt.


ETA link to transcript

[Turborama]

90. Great stuff! Thanks a lot for that link, too!

I'll download the full episode to my hard drive and watch it on the telly.

:hi:

ETA Damn, they've limited it to viewers inside the US. I'll have to see if they've uploaded it to YouTube and maybe watch it there.

[suffragette]

92. I edited and added in the link to the transcript

at the same time you posted this.

Hadn't realized that I'd left it out.

So, at least you can read it there.

I run into that the other way around, usually when I want to see something from the UK or Canada and get that darn not your region message.
Oh well, at least I get one Canadian channel here.


:hi:

[Turborama]

93. I've just found Christiane Amanpour's report from central Cairo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-2NxgOVQhA

I've added it to the videos forum as well, along with an article she wrote: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x549410

Still looking for a vid of that Roundtable session I can watch...

[egressingsparrowdrop]

76. That's good, thanks

works better than anonymous tweets and an online claim by an emergency worker with no details.

[Turborama]

77. Do your own research next time instead of expecting me or anyone else to spoon feed it to you. n/t

[egressingsparrowdrop]

79. Your "research," to be honest, was garbage.

The concept of what is legitimate and worthy of media attention obviously escapes you.

You "bookmarked" some legitimate reports when someone jumped in with them. Now you want to take credit for that? I looked at your Saturday/Sunday "reports." Tweets and unsubstantiated, undetailed accounts that are unusable. If that's the "research" that you feel you've been spoon feeding then save it.

[Turborama]

87. Where did I say I want to take credit for it?

I have been following Al Jazeera English's live blogs and watching them live on TV since day one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=385&topic_id=548225

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=291317

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4714833&mesg_id=4714895

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x304568

Oh, and the Tunisia revolution? I was on that while everyone else was ignoring it:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=131462

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=131780

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=132129

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=132227

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=201863



A word of advice. You should quit it with the personal attacks. DU has civility rules which are strongly enforced.

[sabrina 1]

95. Not worth the effort ~

;-)

[Turborama]

97. True, that.

:hi:

[bdamomma]

109. I have been watching Al Jazeera too,

I find their reports more credible.

[formercia]

99. Go away

We're wise to this false-flag crap. It's standard procedure for those in power, to try and remain in power. We at DU have seen many examples in many countries of this type of behavior by the authorities.

You would be best served by keeping an open mind and doing some research before you display your ignorance and discredit yourself.

[suffragette]

84. You're welcome

Turborama's been posting consistently good threads on this and many other issues and been processing a lot of data while doing this.

It's likely Turbo already saw many of these individually, but with so much info, it can take a bit of time to think and thread back to each original item.

All of that counts for quite a bit in my book.

Sharing of info and learning is a great aspect of DU.

Hope you choose to avail yourself of that.

[Turborama]

73. Put on Ignore for coming in and insulting me right off the bat

And for using a selective quote to misrepresent what I said.

The whole team are in Egypt (allowed to film freely, unlike Al Jazeera English - that should set anyone's alarm bells off straight away) and they are going on about the "looting", which most people know was carried out by Mubarak's thugs, and how frightened people are. Footage of a vandalized restaurant described as "look! looting!" on rotation.

Anyone who's been paying attention knows that's exactly what Mubarak intended; vanish all the police, release the secret service thugs (I've heard they have 750,000 in Egypt) & 1,000s of prisoners and make everyone so frightened they miss him.

[egressingsparrowdrop]

78. I did no such things. And your quote was not misrepresented by me...

...you said, as you just wrote, that "looting, which most people know was carried out by Mubarek's thugs"

It seems clear at least some of the looting is. There are reports, unlike the ones that you've been depending upon/posting about, which include names and first-hand accounts of looters being captured with police id cards.

We still don't know exactly how much looting is going on, though it seems to be happening in various parts of the city, and how many of the looters are Mubarek's men or on orders from him.

[Turborama]

80. You used a selective quote to misrepresent what I said

It was *vandalism* being portrayed as "looting". Get it now?

How do you know which ones I've been depending on? I've been watching live TV reports from Egyptian witnesses and experts. You don't know what my knowledge base is.

It might make you think it adds power to your point, but your unrec is meaningless. It just moved it down a notch on the greatest page, which I couldn't care less about.

Also, you accused me of having a "dog in the race". Which I find ironic.

[egressingsparrowdrop]

83. No

I said you didn't know if the place had been robbed or not. That is of no concern though, really.
More troubling was your claim that people know "the looting" (not just some cases) was done by "Mubarek's thugs."

I looked back at the links you provided me...going back to Saturday and Sunday, that you felt were "reports" that constituted proof that looting was done by Mubarek's police. They didn't.

You do have a dog in the race, clearly. You would prefer there be no looting, but as there is you want it, all of it preferably, to have been done by Mubarek's men on his orders.

I'm sorry if my criticism of you makes you feel attacked or insulted. The way you immediately portrayed yourself to me was as a "media-savvy" person who engages in research and runs a journal/blog issuing reports and the like. Poor journalism is a pet peeve of mine, and the items you were depending upon to make your sweeping claims were very poor. And now with some legitimate reports - which apparently were news to you - being volunteered by other posters your claims are still not correct.

Journalism is not a place for easily bruised egos.

[sabrina 1]

98. And what evidence is there that the looting is being done by

protesters, as CNN and the rest of the U.S. media are implying? Do you accept their 'opinions' on that?

You do know that it is the U.S. media that decided to make it appear as though the Egyptian people are there to loot and terrorize tourists?

I have seen reports that looters were caught carrying Police IDs. That is why people are assuming that the looters are Mubarak thugs. That is far more like a supposition than the one being put forward by the U.S. who are also merely speculating and since the MSM is speculating, in return others have the same right to speculate, don't you think?

Have the police arrested any of those 'looters' btw? We KNOW Mubarak's police have a reputation for not only arresting and beating to a pulp, anyone caught stealing, but they also are known to arrest and brutalize doormen to apt. buildings that have been robbed, for not stopping the thieves.

So, where are the reports of all the arrests of looters? Are they falling down on the job all of a sudden?

[egressingsparrowdrop]

103. I wasn't aware

of any evidence either way, until seeing some legitimate reports that the OP failed to provide either in this thread or in the many links tossed my way.

You say "You do know that it is the U.S. media that decided to make it appear as though the Egyptian people are there to loot and terrorize tourists?"
No, I didn't. And I doubt very much that the US media has decided, as a group or otherwise, to make things appear this way.

The media is getting the story now, it would seem. And yet, there is still no way to know how many of the looters are police, or escaped criminals, or opportunistic citizens. Probably a mixture, but we can't make any blanket claims or assumptions as the OP was inclined to do.

[sabrina 1]

104. The OP has a record here of providing excellent

coverage of events around the world. If it is the general consensus of people in Egypt and elsewhere that the Mubarak thugs were trying to discredit the protesters, which it was, and that until the MSM here began its coverage, a little late btw, by highlighting that relatively unimportant aspect of the protests, the OP most certainly should have mentioned it.

No other world news organization spent so much time on that comparatively insignificant aspect of this momentous and historical event, until the U.S. MSM finally got their act together and began to cover it.

That fact alone, the obsession of the U.S. media with this caused people around the world to comment that it was certainly odd in comparison to the excellent coverage we have been watching for days now.

In fact, in itself, it is news. Refusing to cover both revolutions until there was no way not to, then starting off with the same old propagandist angle that those 'Muslims' are 'scary people' and the poor 'frightened tourists' ARE the story, was very definitely worthy of comment.

I have a feeling that when this over, the coverage of this historical event will indeed be an issue that will receive much attention. As it should.

Maybe you haven't been following the story so the stark contrast between the U.S media on this and almost every other country's media, was remarkable.

The looting was a minor part of this event, we all knew about it but it was hugely important in the scheme of things. So, the question is, why was it so important for the U.S. media to make it THE story?

This is why the OP, who has been following the story, mentioned it and the fact that most people had already moved on to the more important story itself, with most assuming because of the early reports, that Mubarak's thugs, people capable of murder and torture, would not think twice about staging some distracting crimes to distract from the real story.

[egressingsparrowdrop]

105. All fair enough, but the OP did a very poor job of providing

information to back up his analysis/comment on the events.

When I pointed it out it offended the OP, and was chastised for giving advice to a "very media savvy person."

Watching live coverage and providing updates to DU is an excellent service, something the OP should be commended for. It's exactly the kind of activity that occurs in newsrooms around the world.

The problem that arose was when I questioned the OP assertion that most people knew the looters were Mubarek thugs. Most people did not know that. In fact, nobody knew then or knows now how many of the looters were/are "secret police" or if they were on orders from Mubarek. Given recent reports it seems confirmed that at least some of the looters were secret police. Did Mubarek send them? It's an assumption we can make, but not one I would want a mainstream news organization to make. Those kinds of assumptions can go the other way as well, so best not to do it from the bully pulpit of cable news.

The OP should not have utilized links to google tweet searches, an undetailed account on a blog, and a DU post about live BBC coverage, as the proof for his statements. I went and examined all the links given in good faith. When I came back and told the OP they were not worthy material that anyone can draw conclusions from or expect to be reported by any self-respecting reputation-conscious mainstream media outlet, I was met with derision and accused of "patronizing" the OP.

It's all fine. I'm ignored now, "shunned," I've been told.
The OP is a dedicated watcher of the media...a worthy task and useful to DU consumers of his/her threads. One thing the OP is not, though, is media savvy and a reliable commentator on what they are looking at/reading.

[sabrina 1]

112. The OP is free to use links to any source he wants.

It was tweets that turned out to be accurate in the very beginning of this story. I wrote an OP last week linking to tweets that were asking for help due to the fact that the people in Egypt had heard that the government was going to isolate the country by shutting down the internet.

I was not sure at the time if the pleas for help, to let the world know what was happening, were legitimate, but I posted them anyhow, as there was nothing to lose. If they were true, as they turned out to be, then the word would be spread, as it was. And if not, well, no harm would be done.

This was a story that was happening in real time and the OP and other online bloggers were following it as it happened. Since the U.S. media was not reporting the story, it was being done by ordinary citizens, here and there. And covered by the excellent reporting of Al Jazeera.

Most of the early tweets turned out to be facts. So, I don't share your opinion that linking to tweets was not a good idea. If we all had adapted that strategy, the story would have been over by the time anyone in the U.S. knew what was happening.

The tweets were from eyewitnesses, that is how the news media often gets a story, by talking to eyewitnesses. So the OP did exactly the right thing. The 'looting' part of the story was minor, people in the country believed that it was being done by Mubarak's thugs.

The U.S. media made it THE story and that is why it was even addressed here.

Since you have admonished the OP and made a judgement about someone you obviously 'met' a day or so ago, I found it interesting that that was your focus rather than the far more important point that the Media was disseminating information, ie, blaming the protesters for the looting WITHOUT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE.

THEY are the journalists, the OP as he has stated is not. Yet you chose to care more about him offering information that he provided more backup for, than the MSM did for their angle.

They are being paid to report the news. Did they contact the authorities over there to find out if there had been any arrests? It would be a very strange thing if Mubarak's thugs did not arrest someone for 'all that looting'. Did they suddenly become altruistic? They had a perfect reason to start making arrests, they've never shied away from it before regardless of guilt or innocence. So, did the MSM determine whether or not there were any arrests?

As for your opinion on whether or not the OP is media savvy, you clearly could not make that judgement after the limited contact you've had with him. Those of us familiar with his work are in a far better position to make that determination. I can assure you, he is indeed very media-savvy. He was being humble, so let me say it again. He is one of the most media savvy bloggers I have seen online over the past eight years or so.

[sabrina 1]

119. Looks lik the OP's information was accurate after all.

@glcarlstrom
Gregg Carlstrom
Looters who were shot by the army and brought to hospitals were carrying police ID cards @tweetsintheme #egypt #jan25

The above quote is from an Al Jazeera reporter. The story has been confirmed now by many sources.

But the eyewitness reports found online, from the beginning have turned out to be the most reliable information, not just about this, but about every phase of this story.

Next time you come into a thread and decide to admonish someone, it would help if you understood what you are talking about.

Sources are generally quoted by news orgs because they are credible.

People commenting on Twitter from the very beginning of this story, proved to be correct over and over again. They became a far more reliable source than CNN, who weren't there, or any other U.S. media.

[upi402]

88. The mainstream hairdo's and posers show up - and the real journo's are gone

poof, like hairspray in the wind.

[Blue_Tires]

101. I swapped out CNN for the BBC a few years ago and never looked back

There is no comparison, especially when it comes to global stories...

Sadly, I was in Germany last summer, and had a chance to watch "CNN International" while over there...It's like night and day compared to the domestic CNN -- No sensationalist screechfests, a lot less spin, and real news...It's like how the old CNN used to be...

[bdamomma]

110. as an ex -pat I will watch BBC/ Al Jazeera before any US media outlet.

for something like this.

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

[justiceischeap]

102. There's some sort of tie between Mubarak and CNN i.e., nefarious

I've been reading a lot the last couple of days and I know I saw something somewhere about Mubarak and CNN being BFFs. I've tried searching for it again and can't find it. It would be interesting for someone better versed in research to ferret out. Basically, if what I recall is correct, CNNs reporting in Egypt is just an extension of his state TV but for the US.

[underpants]

106. LOL HEADDESK

:bounce:

[jeffrey_X]

111. CNN SUCKS.

unreal.

[harun]

113. Disgusting propaganda.

[Ron Green]

115. CNN is toxic. It's a corporate house organ.

[Turborama]

116. Ironically, they have a pro Mubarak mob outside now trying to shout them down

Cooper laughed and said, "I don't think they know who we are".

Translation: "Shut up guys, were not Al Jazeera English. We've been allowed to be here by your boss"

[Dawson Leery]

118. Last in ratings CNN is very well conected to those who control things.

Gergen and Blitzer are doing their best, or should we say, worst.....to down play the discontent the Egyptian people have with Dictator Murbarak.