GOP Governors Take Aim at Teacher Tenure (NYT)

[somone]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/us/01tenure.html

G.O.P. Governors Take Aim at Teacher Tenure
By TRIP GABRIEL and SAM DILLON

Channeling a national anxiety over poor student performance, many governors are taking aim at a bedrock tradition of public schools: teacher tenure. The momentum began over a year ago with President Obama’s call to measure and reward effective teaching, a challenge he repeated in last week’s State of the Union address.

Now several Republican governors have concluded that removing ineffective teachers requires undoing the century-old protections of tenure. Governors in Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Nevada and New Jersey have called for the elimination or dismantling of tenure. As state legislatures convene this winter, anti-tenure bills are being written in those states and others. Their chances of passing have risen because of crushing state budget deficits that have put teachers’ unions on the defensive.

“It’s practically impossible to remove an underperforming teacher under the system we have now,” said Gov. Brian Sandoval of Nevada, lamenting that his state has the lowest high school graduation rate in the nation. Eliminating tenure, Mr. Sandoval said, would allow school districts to dismiss teachers based on competence, not seniority, in the event of layoffs.

Politics also play a role. “These new Republican governors are all trying to outreform one another,” said Michael Petrilli, an education official under President George W. Bush. In New York City, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg has campaigned aggressively for the state to end “last in, first out” protections for teachers. Warning that thousands of young educators face layoffs, Mr. Bloomberg is demanding that Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo scrap the seniority law if the budget he will unveil Tuesday includes state cuts to education...

[davidinalameda]

1. it is difficult to remove a bad teacher

that's one of the biggest complaints about teachers' unions

something needs to be done to make it easier to fire bad teachers

[dsc]

4. that is total nonsense

In my school alone, we have had 3 teachers removed in the first semester. I don't think any of them deserved it BTW but in any case it belies the notion it is that hard to get rid of teachers.

[davidinalameda]

8. bullshit

three teachers in one schools is not a trend when you have schools systems across the country having teachers removed from the classroom yet still pulling in paychecks waiting for their hearings or whatever

[dsc]

9. so you think that teachers should just be able to be up and fired

with no hearing whatsoever. So say Billy gets and F, a well earned F, cries to his parent who calls the school and says Mr. Smith called my boy a (fill in the blank). Teacher should be fired, no investigation, no nothing. Good luck staffing classrooms.

[davidinalameda]

13. now did I say that

I said it should be easier to get rid of bad teachers

[Pholus]

15. I guess I'm unclear about your OP. By "easier" do you mean summary removal or a process?

If you're talking about changing the process in what ways will this new "easier" process differ from
the current one?

[dsc]

17. you specificly had a problem with the fact the teachers were collecting paychecks

while waiting for their hearings. If you remove that requirement all a district has to do is wait for a year or two or three or however long they want to hold the hearing. The teacher will quit since they can't live without income. This requirement makes districts, in most cases, hold the hearing in a timely manner. If they don't, I don't see why the teachers are to blame.

[Pholus]

10. It's hard to pay a good one what they're worth too. But I see we're not worried about THAT one!

You can damn well bet the GOP would outsource this too in a minute. Course I see plenty of folks here who seem to want to help them too.

[dsc]

2. without tenure you will never have a teacher buck a principal

If a principal doesn't want a GSA in her school, there won't be one. If a principal wants the quarterback to get an A even if he did no work, he will get one. If a principal doesn't want the bio teacher to teach evolution, she won't. That is what a world without tenure will look like. Plus, the layoffs will magically occur among the oldest, and thus most expensive, teachers.

[QC]

3. +1

[Starry Messenger]

7. +2

[Pholus]

11. Shhhh, the GOP autocrats actually WANT that part of tenure to go.

The bad teacher excuse is just the foot in the door.

Then we'll find out it's "prayer hour or the door."

[brooklynite]

5. I'm not a supporter of tenure...

I've worked in the public sector for 27 years, and have never had job protection. I've been promoted seven times based on my abilities. Some people in my organization have been promoted faster; others have done exactly their job, no more, and have pretty much remained where they were for 20 years. If you've got a good argument for tenure and seniority, I'd love to hear it because nobody's given me a convincing one.

[dsc]

6. see post 2

[danbee46]

12. Tenure is misunderstood

Tenure is one of the most misunderstood things in the education system. It is not employment for life.
In my state of NY it works like this:
A teacher is hired in probationary status for three years.
During that time he/she may be fired for any reason except for those prohibited by law (race, gender, etc).
If fired, the probationary teacher is not entitled to a hearing but must be given thirty days' notice.
Once the teacher is allowed to begin the fourth year, he/she may still be fired, but the employer must prove the reasons for the dismissal (incompetence, conduct unbecoming a teacher, etc.)
The teacher may be suspended, but must receive pay until the hearing has been concluded.
It is true that the hearings should probably be streamlined, but teachers are still fired every year.
In this country, a person is innocent until proven guilty. That principle has been extended to teachers in their fourth year and thereafter.
I have no problem with that. The fact that workers in many industries do not have the "innocent until guilty" benefit, in no way means that
teachers shouldn't either. If anything, we should be leveling these rights up, not down.

[QC]

14. Exactly right. We are talking about due process here,

not absolute protection against ever being fired no matter what.

It is discouraging to see how much right wing propaganda is now conventional wisdom around here. It wasn't always like that.

[mistertrickster]

16. Here in KS, teacher tenure simply means that the school board has to

give you a reason when they fire you.

It in no way means that you have life-time employment no matter what.