Man who accidentally shot woman in restaurant (gun dropped from his pocket): I’m totally distraught

[Emit]

KINGWOOD, Texas -- A Kingwood man who accidentally shot an elderly woman when his gun dropped from his coat pocket says he's totally distraught after the incident. ... He said he had on a jacket that he hadn’t worn in a year. He said he didn’t know it had his .38 caliber derringer gun in its pocket. The gun ended up falling out of his pocket.

“Everybody looked around. There was a big explosion in the restaurant. No one knew what it was. Then, the person who I was dining with saw the derringer under my seat,” he said.

~snip~

Police said a bullet hit another diner, Diana Barker, in the buttocks and continued through her hip, into her abdomen and ended at the right side of her chest.

~snip~

According to management at Raffa’s, if you have a concealed handgun license, you can bring a gun into the restaurant. At this point, the man whose gun went off is not facing criminal charges. That’s why 11 News is not identifying him at this time. However, on Tuesday, sources close to the investigation said the case is not closed. He could still face criminal charges and the case could go before a grand jury.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/Man-who-accidentally-shot-woman-in-restaurant-Im-totally-distraught--114619149.html

[petronius]

1. He should be distraught - he was negligent

Hope she recovers quickly and comfortably...

[TheWraith]

35. Precisely. Another good reason never to carry a weapon without a safety and firing pin block.

I would bet that that was the problem in this case. For those who don't know, derringer type "pocket guns" need to be cocked prior to firing, and they have no trigger guard, so it's highly unlikely he had it cocked before it fell. (If he did, well, he's even more of a moron than I thought.) But it probably landed on the hammer, striking the firing pin against the primer, and setting off the round.

In a more modern type of pistol, that can't happen unless the trigger is pulled, because when it's not a piece of metal blocks the firing pin from hitting the round's primer. That's called a firing pin block, and it prevents the gun from going off accidentally due to dropping on a hard surface. Most new guns have them, but some older types like derringers and some revolvers don't.

[varkam]

49. L-l-l-l-lawsuit!!!!

I also hope she recovers...oodles of cash money from this goober.

[TheCowsCameHome]

2. Besides being "distraught",

I'll bet he's shitting bricks....as well he should be.

[onethatcares]

3. I always forget when I'm carrying.

it's like a total surprise to have a 1911A fall outa my pocket, I'm like, whoooooa, how'd that get there? Imagine how damn dumb I'd feel to be

robbed and forget I had my backup in an ankle holster.

[valerief]

4. I believe the word used in these incidents is "isolated". Lots and lots of "isolated" incidents.

No pattern. Move along. Nothing to see. Guns are gods.

[TheWraith]

39. Actually, such incidents are extremely rare.

Accidental deaths from firearms number about 2.5 per million people in the US per year, and if you look specifically at incidents in public, even including non-fatal injuries, they're rare enough that there's no real data on them. You're infinitely more likely to get killed in a car crash driving to the restaurant than you are to be shot by someone's gun going off.

[EOTE]

70. 2.5 million per year is extremely rare?

Nearly 1% of the population dies from this every year and that's rare?

[snooper2]

71. where did you get that number?

[EOTE]

72. From the post I replied to. NT

[X_Digger]

76. 2.5 per one million people, lol.. n/t

[snooper2]

79. ever verify anything on your own?

:eyes:

[EOTE]

80. "Every" verify anything yourself? NT

[snooper2]

81. Always answer a question with a question?

Fixed typo since that was such a big deal...

A little more interested with what is going on in Egypt than this thread :)

[EOTE]

83. Clearly not.

And I think that typo was at least as big a deal as me misreading the post above. I'm quite sure you've never misread a post, it would be quite hypocritical if you ever have.

[snooper2]

84. what did you mis-read? post said 2.5 million, you said 2.5 million

where's the confusion?

I think the number is bullshit myself

[EOTE]

86. It said 2.5 per million. So it looks like you made the same mistake.

I misread the post and was responding accordingly. You did the same damned thing.

[snooper2]

87. ROFL

:rofl:

Multi-tasking skills are lacking right now...Aljazeera live stream must be messing with me :)

[Swamp Rat]

5. I hope she sues the restaurant for a brazillion dollars.

:popcorn:

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. I think there was a nursing baby there that night

[gratuitous]

6. Aw heck, why should he face criminal charges?

He's all law-abiding and stuff. And God bless KHOU for not identifying the Kingwood man. The woman who got shot in the ass, though, her name's Diana Barker, and you can read all about her medical condition. The Kingwood man is safely anonymous. But distraught.

[hlthe2b]

21. +++++++++

I find this appalling in just about every way one could imagine. I hope she sues him for every last dime. I also hope a grand jury does find grounds to indict him and his name and face appear on billboards throughout the state showing him in his orange jumpsuit picking up trash.

This is no different to me than driving drunk. Both involve negligent use of a lethal weapon.

[TheWraith]

36. Actually I would equate it more to reckless driving.

His negligence was based out of inattention and carelessness, rather than the willful act of getting drunk and getting behind the wheel.

[Johonny]

59. car aren't designed to kill people

hand guns are pretty much made to shoot other people. Other than shoot targets to get better at shooting people, there isn't much else you do with them. It ain't hunting rifle, it's a hand gun. I my mind there's a difference in liability attached to buying weapons and buying vehicles. A vehicle might unintentionally be used as a weapon, but a weapon is a weapon always. So I can't see this as equating.

[DeSwiss]

38. [phone]

[Gold Metal Flake]

60. This.

Exquisitely composed.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

7. I once had a portable nuke fall out of my pocket . . .

I tell you, that really shook me up.

He is not only negligent, he's a fucking fool. I hope she sues the living daylights out of him and takes his car, pick up, house, gun collection, first male born, and his false teeth.

[TheCowsCameHome]

14. Hehe. + 1

Bwahahahahaha.

[Mnemosyne]

30. Is that a nuke/gun in your pocket, or are ya' just glad to see me? ... n/t

[rpannier]

52. Thank goodness

I thought I was the only one who dropped a portable nuke

Thanks for your post
It is damned funny

[jaxx]

8. He ought to be distraught....he did harm to an innocent bystander.

How damn dumb do you have to be to leave a loaded gun in your pocket....the last time you wore it?

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Exultant Democracy]

10. Guns don't kill people, pockets do...

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. heehee.

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ladywnch]

12. okay, I'm no gun owner so please excuse my ignorance here

but a .38 isn't exactly toy size is it? I mean I associate the name 'derringer' with small ladies weapons, but a .38 is a .38 right? So, that being said, wouldn't you feel the weight in the jacket???? I mean, my god, when I leave my keys in my jacket I can feel the weight pull and he couldn't feel the weight of a gun????

Plus, what kind of numb nut leaves a weapon in a jacket for over a year?! Shouldn't you kinda really know where the weapon is at all times?.... like locked securely somewhere?

Again, I'm no gun owner but WTH!!!

[RamboLiberal]

15. Derringer would be fairly small

Yeah he should know where it is. AndI think I'd feel it in my pocket. IMHO all handguns should be in a holster. They do make pocket holsters.



Manufacturing
Make: Derringer
Country: USA
MSRP: $400

Ballistics
Caliber: .22 LR, .357 Magnum, .38 Special
Capacity: 2 rounds

Dimensions
Type: Single Shot
Weight: 15 oz (425g)
Length: 4.82" (122 mm)
Width: 0.90" (23 mm)
Barrel: 3.00" (76 mm)

http://www.e-gun.net/more.asp?gid=20020&gun=Revolver

[Swamp Rat]

20. Plus at least one .38 round @ approx. 90 grams = 515 grams or 1.13 lbs.

Something that compact at that weight should be noticeable, unless it was a very large, and thick coat, perhaps over another coat.

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. I usually check my pockets when I put my coat on

Maybe it's a habit to look for my keys. But I can't imagine not knowing there was anything in my pocket, especially a GUN. LOL

[Blue-Jay]

13. If more people carried guns, this sort of thing would never happen.

or something...

[Control-Z]

48. That's what they say. n/t

[laundry_queen]

64. LOL. nt

[Skittles]

16. what a fucking idiot

[RandomKoolzip]

17. Personal responsibility!

[pinboy3niner]

18. If only other patrons had been armed...

...they could have killed the derringer before it hit the floor and no one would have been harmed.

[bergie321]

24. LOL

:rofl:

[Swede]

19. She should have been wearing a bp vest if at a ccw restaurant.

It's prudent.

[hlthe2b]

22. Maybe we can start suing establishments that don't provide kevlar

vests to patrons at the door or at least a bullet proof shield at the table. :eyes:

[Ruby the Liberal]

27. She was shot in the butt.

Personally, I wouldn't patronize a CCW restaurant.

Then again, there is a reason I don't live in Texas.

[11 Bravo]

23. He is clearly the victim. He's DISTRAUGHT! That stupid woman was merely shot.

[Swamp Rat]

25. Think about the bullet's poor children too.

:cry:

[11 Bravo]

28. If it was a hollow point, that poor bullet is in shreds even as we speak!

[Ruby the Liberal]

26. He put on a jacket and didn't 'notice' that one side seemed to hang a smidge heavier than the other?

Would have been better off not saying anything other than "I feel terrible about the accident".

What a careless dumbass.

[JI7]

29. i'm not sure i believe him not knowing he had the gun

[TorchTheWitch]

62. I definitely don't believe him

I don't think it's possible to have something as heavy and bulky as a gun in your pocket and not realize it.

[kestrel91316]

31. I recommend criminal charges of gross negligence, and a lawsuit

for personal injury to boot.

He's a fool.

[Hoyt]

32. Restaurants and other public places need to restrict guns. Nowadays almost anyone can carry legally

It is too easy in most states for people to carry a gun legally. Thank the NRA and folks who can't seem to walk out their door without a weapon. Lawmakers are just as irresponsible.

A few lawsuits -- like suggested by others -- will go a long way to keeping public places safe.

I don't want my kids exposed to someone walking around in a restaurant, library, public park or nursery school with a gun strapped to their leg or hidden down their pants.

[RamboLiberal]

33. Your profile says GA

So I hate to inform you that you and your kids have probably been exposed to people in the restaurant carrying a concealed handgun many many times.

And do you know one reason why Texas got concealed carry?

Luby's massacre.
The Luby's massacre was a mass murder that took place on October 16, 1991, in Killeen, Texas, United States when George Jo Hennard drove his pickup truck into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death while wounding another 20, subsequently committing suicide by shooting himself. It was the deadliest shooting rampage in American history until the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre

Responding to the massacre, in 1995 the Texas Legislature passed a shall-issue gun law, which requires that all qualifying applicants be issued a Concealed Handgun License (the state's required permit to carry concealed weapons), removing the personal discretion of the issuing authority to deny such licenses. The law had been campaigned for by Suzanna Hupp, who was present at the Luby's massacre where both of her parents were shot and killed. Hupp later expressed regret for obeying the law by leaving her firearm in her car rather than keeping it on her person in an establishment that served alcohol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre

[TheWraith]

34. I'm sorry, but that's not your decision.

You don't have the right to regulate someone else's legal public behavior, any more than the religious right has the "right" to not have their children exposed to evil, dangerous homosexuals in the restaurant, library, park, or nursery.

The reality is that millions of people in this country carry a weapon every day, blood still isn't running in the streets, and things are tilting away from your opinion, not towards, because it's not based on reality. You or your kids are infinitely more likely to get hit by a car than injured by someone carrying a gun, but you don't seem to have a sense of proportion on the actual risk. For that matter, you're more likely to be struck by lightning than to be the victim of an incident such as the one in the OP.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

41. Homosexuals in restaurants don't put me in danger; guns do.

Yes, carrying guns is currently legal; no, it ought not to be. No one person has the right to pass laws, obviously; however, society as a whole does, and among the laws it should pass are those regulating and restricting behaviour that endangers others, such as owning and carrying guns.

>"You or your kids are infinitely more likely to get hit by a car than injured by someone carrying a gun, but you don't seem to have a sense of proportion on the actual risk"

Is simply not true - it's about 1.5 times more likely. There are roughly 45,000 American killed each year by traffic accidents and 30,000 killed each year by guns. Comparing the relative benefits to society, the logical response is to have moderately tight restrictions on who can own and drive a car and when - which American has - and much tighter ones on who can own or carry a gun - which it fails miserably at.

You may well be right that America is tilting even further away from gun control than it already is; this is one of the many reasons I'm glad I'm British.

[Hoyt]

44. Exactly. The pro-gunners try to equate the right to carry to "civil rights." No even close.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lorien]

65. .....

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[Hoyt]

43. Actually restaurants can restrict guns -- and should. If you don't like it go elsewhere.

I don't care about the likelihood of getting hit by lightning, a car, a meteor, etc. I do care about my kids growing up thinking it is perfectly acceptable to walk around in public with an apparatus designed to kill tucked down their pants. I think that is bad for society.

And it is my right to suggest public places restrict guns. I can't make them, but a few lawsuits when some gun-toter shoots someone will.

[Kaleva]

53. Are you suggesting TSA style pat downs before entering a restaurant?

The guy claimed he didn't know the gun was in his jacket pocket so even if the establishment had a sign saying guns on the premises were not allowed, it wouldn't have been found unless a security check had been performed on entering customers.

[FailureToCommunicate]

45. Meanwhile, back in fact based reality...

Your comment that he is "infinitely more likely" to be injured by a car than by a gun is not true and you (should) know it:
The chance of vehicle death is usually about equal to gun related deaths at around 30,000 per year.

Still feel confident to say that -"while millions carry guns every day" "blood is not running in the streets"? Is 30,000 deaths and 200,000 injuries not bloody enough?
Take an evening and visit a city ER or perhaps a rehabilitation hospital and see the carnage for yourself. Maybe you'll not sound so cavalier then.

[X_Digger]

46. Legally carrying..

Knowing the poster that you responded to, I'd guess he left out 'legally'- as in by a concealed carry licensee.

In Texas, depending on the crime, you are between 8x and 110x as likely to be the victim of crime perpetrated by a non-CHL holder than a CHl holder (depending on the crime.)

Here are the rates among themselves of CHL holders vs the general public > 21 years of age (so as to compare apples to apples.)

[FailureToCommunicate]

47. I'm sure you think that's somehow relevant, but it don't mop up the carnage.

[X_Digger]

51. It goes directly to your point (and the point of the person you responded to.)

Perhaps you weren't making yourself clear?

In 2007 (the last year with available data) there were 61,100 convictions of NON-CHL holders and 160 convictions of CHL holders (for *any* crime). That's less than three-tenths of one percent of all crimes committed in the state that year.

If Texas is at all representative of those who carry legally elsewhere, they're likely responsible for a miniscule proportion of those 30,000 deaths you trotted out.

He said, "You or your kids are infinitely more likely to get hit by a car than injured by someone carrying a gun" - I'd add 'legally'.

To which you replied, "The chance of vehicle death is usually about equal to gun related deaths at around 30,000 per year."

1) As post #42 correctly states, there are about 45,000 automobile deaths each year (CDC again).

2) In 2009, there were 6,452 handgun homicides, 613 unintentional handgun deaths and ~18,000 unintentional firearm injuries.

If we take my chart which shows how rarely licensed CHL holders are involved in crime, you can cut that 6,500 down quite a bit- I'll be charitable and let's say 2% - 14. I don't know what percentage of unintentional firearm injuries involve a CHL, but I my guess is that it would be less than the general public. Let's assume a wildly inflated number (compared to the percentage of the public with CHL licenses)- say 10%.

That means that there would be just over 1,800 injuries or deaths attributable to CHL holders in a given year.

You'd be 25 times more likely to be hurt in an auto accident. No, it's not 'infinitely' more, but I also used assumptions that disfavor my side because true numbers aren't readily available.

http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_08.html

[Lorien]

63. +1,000.

[spin]

89. When concealed carry first passed in Florida, numerous businesses had "no-gun" signs ...

In six months most were gone. I can't remember the last time I saw one.

Florida current has 780,595 people with valid concealed weapons permits. Palm Beach County has 51005 people with carry licenses. You stick a "no-guns" sign on the door to your establishment and you lose business. Accidents involving firearms are extremely rare and most store owners believe that the loss of business is FAR more important then the small chance of a lawsuit.

Also realize that an establishment could easily be sued if thy had a "no-gun" sign on their door and a person who normally carried a firearm left it behind and was injured in a robbery.

[WinkyDink]

37. See? Guns DO shoot people!

Gallows humor.

[gauguin57]

42. Guns don't kill people. Dipshits who carry guns into restaurants kill people.

The state legislature in Utah just voted to name the Browning pistol the Official State Gun. I feel like we're all living in the friggin' Wild Wild West.

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/27/133280682/Plans-For-Utah-State-Gun-Spark-Outrage

[Mimosa]

50. The careless idiot is not facing charges?

From OP link:



KINGWOOD, Texas -- A Kingwood man who accidentally shot an elderly woman when his gun dropped from his coat pocket says he's totally distraught after the incident.

It happened as the man (who did not want to be identified) was having dinner on Jan. 13 at Raffa’s in the 1600 block of W. Lake Houston Pkwy.

He said he had on a jacket that he hadn’t worn in a year. He said he didn’t know it had his .38 caliber derringer gun in its pocket.

The gun ended up falling out of his pocket.

“Everybody looked around. There was a big explosion in the restaurant. No one knew what it was. Then, the person who I was dining with saw the derringer under my seat,” he said.

The explosion was his gun going off as it hit the floor.

Police said a bullet hit another diner, Diana Barker, in the buttocks and continued through her hip, into her abdomen and ended at the right side of her chest.

Paramedics rushed the 71-year-old grandmother to Ben Taub Hospital.

“I was almost in shock. Oh my God. That’s my gun,” the Kingwood man said he uttered to himself after the gun went off. “I don’t even know what to say. I’m sorry the whole thing happened. If I knew there was a gun in the jacket, I would not have gone in the restaurant with it.”

Twelve days after the accidental shooting, Barker is still in the hospital. Her sons say their mother is making slow, steady progress, but the road to recovery has been tough.

[Johonny]

57. somewhere Plaxico Burress is texting "WTF"

[Emit]

68. The article says he could still face criminal charges

and that the case could go before a grand jury.

[slackmaster]

74. What law do you believe he broke?

Unfortunately Texas doesn't have a law against being stupid.

[Dogtown]

88. "Criminal negligence".

Most states have a statutory equivalent.

I believe this cowboy is liable, but it may not be prosecuted as such.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. He didn't know there was a gun in his pocket????

Can we take his license away? I mean, shouldn't you need to KNOW you are carrying?

[Kaleva]

61. He should at least lose his license to carry.

[hollowdweller]

58. So this guy didn't keep track of a gun of his for a year?

That's scarey.

[Hannah Bell]

67. bull. how do you not notice you have a gun in your pocket, they're heavy. i notice if i have a

roll of lifesavers in my pocket.

[ProfessorGAC]

69. Does He Go To Prison Like Plexico Burress?

Plexico shot HIMSELF and went to jail. This guy's negligence harmed SOMEONE ELSE. I know you can carry a gun in Texas, but geez, negligence is negligence.
GAC

[slackmaster]

73. Plaxico had no permit to even own the gun, much less carry it concealed in NYC

Penalties for violating the Sullivan Law are very harsh.

Apples to oranges, ProfessorGAC.

[ProfessorGAC]

75. Way To Miss The Point

That whoosh you heard was the point going over your head.
GAC

[slackmaster]

77. Malum prohibitum v. Malum in se - I think the guy who dropped his gun should be penalized

I don't know what statute applies or what the penalty should be.

And if it makes you feel any better, I think NYC's laws and penalties for some victimless crimes are way too harsh.

[ProfessorGAC]

91. As Do I

You still missed my point.

Dropping a gun is and shooting someone is still, BY DEFINITION, negligent.

The NY laws are irrelevant. Negligence under the law is negligence.

Burress went to jail because he's black. This guy won't.

THAT'S THE POINT YOU ARE WILLFULLY IGNORING!
GAC

[Xenotime]

78. But hey!!! It's Texas.

[Lucian]

82. He's an idiot.

I hope he gets in trouble.

[dembotoz]

85. i do hope she recovers.--never thought of a 38 as a derringer.

I sometimes leave some money in a jacket, but i would think i would remember a gun.

[Chimichurri]

90. how could he not know? a gun is heavy - when I have a lipstick in my jacket

pocket, I notice the extra weight as i put it on.

[pinboy3niner]

92. Yeah, but that's probably .50 cal. lipstick

Why are you using such heavy artillery? :evilgrin:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

93. That's what happens when you live in a part of the country that treats guns like cell phones

Idiots.

[JerseygirlCT]

94. How the hell do you not know you have a gun in your pocket?

First the obvious - weight, bulk, etc.

But beyond that, how do you not know at all times where your gun is?

Honest to goodness, this is why people like me hate the things. People are too damned stupid for them.