a few dozen pigs trying to hold back 3-5000 protesters.

[piratefish08]

historic.

http://www.ustream.tv/TheOther99

[Richardo]

1. "Pigs"

Hysteric.

[Fire Walk With Me]

2. ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FNsG1szQPqo#!

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/11/17/371311/video-nypd-female-protester-street-hair/

[piratefish08]

3. yup. wasn't a typo. pigs.

[gateley]

4. +1 They're not all pigs, but some definitely are. Here's the proof. nt

[slay]

7. I'll add a +1 to your +1

MANY of them are. Not all - but many. Paid thugs.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gateley]

15. Understood. And agree. nt

[texanwitch]

5. PIGS.

That is correct.

They have earned that title.

[JuniperLea]

6. Yep!

Damn well said!

[Richardo]

12. Calling names always helps.

:thumbsup:

[tblue]

14. Hey, that is a MILD reaction.

Defend the people who need defense, not the perpetrators of brutality....please.

[Richardo]

17. No better way to alienate people than to use terms like 'pig'

You turn potential sympathizers and allies into 'you deserve it you fucking hippies' faster than you can blink.

Is it fair? No. But that's what'll happen.

[piratefish08]

20. you know how else to alienate your potential allies?

like this:

[tblue]

27. Yeah. A 'word' doesn't make anyone bleed.

Talk about misplaced sympathies, huh????

[Lucinda]

22. +1

[tblue]

26. And they're not alienated now?

I'm not worried about WORDS at the moment.

[timtom]

52. Actually didn't alienate ME

I totally agree.

Quite an accurate sobriquet.

[tuckessee]

59. Cop jock sniffers and cop bunnies will never be potential sympathizers.

Their cult-like adoration for the Thin Blue line obscures everything else and trumps all reason or compassion.

[piratefish08]

16. they have helmets and sticks. they can take a little name calling.

at least I didn't call them fucking fascist pigs........

[Richardo]

18. It's not them I'm worried about.

[eShirl]

40. Right there with you.

glad to know I'm not the only one here who sees the irony

[tblue]

13. OH MY GOSH!!!!

Hideous! Police brutality. Coordinated with Homeland Security. Our gov't is against us. It really is.

[dionysus]

42. some folks like to pretend they're living out the 60s....

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

9. Mayor George Armstrong Bloomberg better have a back up plan.

[Fire Walk With Me]

10. Hopefully it will be a fast plane out of town. A long ways out of town. Forever.

[Zorra]

11. It's like the storming of the Bastille, except the people are non-violent.

Wish I could say the same for the po-lice.

[pnwmom]

19. The big mistake made in 1968 was to alienate union workers.

Let's not go there again.

[SammyWinstonJack]

21. Tim is doing an amazing job of live streaming this! He rocks!

[piratefish08]

23. the guy's been going over 10 hours - amazing......

[SammyWinstonJack]

24. I love him!

He rocks!

[piratefish08]

25. he is shaming the corporate media with his coverage.

[EFerrari]

29. It's over for the corporate media. They just don't accept it yet.

Some of them are starting to stream live on UStream and LiveStream but their sterile streams will never be able to compete.

lol

:toast:

[SammyWinstonJack]

30. He is! And he is gaining support among the "MSM". Time.com is streaming him!

He is making a name for himself! I heard one media outlet that said he is the next Peter Jennings. :wow:

[freshwest]

38. The heart is more powerful than the paycheck for many.

[xchrom]

28. Recommend

[HopeHoops]

31. Yeah, that will work. But "pigs" is kind of an offensive term. They're just doing their jobs.

That's one of the problems with going into law enforcement or the military. You essentially surrender your right to have a conscious and just have to follow orders. In a way I empathize with them, but the ones giving the orders are WAY out of line!

[ZombieHorde]

32. Bullshit, cops don't have to beat the fuck out of people. They can refuse. nt

[quinnox]

33. the nuremberg trials proved that "just following orders" is not a valid defense

[HopeHoops]

37. From a legal perspective I certainly agree. But from the same perspective...

...the authorities aren't even obeying court orders, well, except for the ones "judge shopping" are providing them (such as no sleeping bags or tents).

[arikara]

35. They can always refuse

to beat an unarmed person who is no threat. They can refuse to pepper spray an old woman or to shoot a young man in the head. They can make a statement by refusing to follow those orders.

[applegrove]

36. Yes. "Pigs" should never be used.

[freshwest]

39. Agreed. It's one of their trigger words. It encourages the us/them group think process.

They're trained to feel that no one understands them, so they turn toward their group and act like a mob. Basic psychology. Dog whistles are made of words.

They create an internal process such as 'they disrespect me, how I make a living, my family, my tradition, my coworkers, now I will show them I'm powerful.' Sad.

The is also an element of being in the opposition to people not coloring inside the lines, so to speak. A measure of fear, adrenaline and that turns on a fight or flight. The cop knows he is not paid and put there to flee. He is the one sent in to calm or help or fight.

Some of us have been in upclose fighting situations. There is a well of aggressiveness that most of us dare not dip into to in order to get along with all kinds of people. Overload that limbic response and all hell breaks loose. There are clearly some damaged cops just like there are damaged people.

The wisdom of the OWS movement is the openness to learn and continue to increase their perspective, their steady desire to be inclusive and prove to those too frightened to see it, that we are all one in this. Such as in the interview with the retired police chief. The questions asked of him were clear and to the point about how to make things work between the protestors and the police. He explained the mentality and the problem from experience and training.

If he'd had a lot of people pointng the finger or giving him the finger, calling him a pig, not giving him a chance to have his say, the OWS would have lost a valuable ally; and that video is also being seen and influencing people on all sides of this discussion.

Calling someone a name is what we do when we ourselves are overwhelmed and cannot be rational or logical. I am guilty of this myself, when I get disgusted. Peacemakers get in trouble if they get between those who are in the middle of their fighting passion.

I think this word, is an older term from older people. I have not heard the OWS folks ever use the term, it's from a different generation that they do not want to be defined as being. They say in the videos cited above, the words, 'shame,' and 'help him/her.' These are human terms that are universal, that can influence.

I've been in situations where a mob gathered and attacked people while working outside in the weather to repair things, not taking from anyone, trying to help. They didn't see us as workers trying to do our jobs, trying to restore utilities. We were just 'the others.'

After doing a minimal job and trying to keep from being hit and our equipment being stolen directly, off the trucks. we fled the area and did not finish all the restoration that night. So people who were peacefully waiting for our help, did not get it.

There are many variations of these themes playing out. It's hard for some to see a disorganized protest as anything but a mob, and I am proud of the OWS for still keeping on with peaceful protest.

[piratefish08]

45. Fuck. That. Police are to protect and serve. If they have a word, ANY word, that is a trigger

then they are FUCKING UNSTABLE and UNFIT for their position.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA7Ivrl0zxA

watch this for as long as you can stand it.

pigs, criminals and hired thugs.


3:06 mans head intentionally smashed into car bumper

3:15 girl pulled by hair from sidewalk INTO street by cop to commence beating

maybe they called the Cops a name and had it coming though, huh?

[freshwest]

46. I can stand it all. it doesn't invalidate my update that explained it. If you want to be mad and be

At war because I've explained a process, and think that cursing and namecalling are going to help your cause, whatever it is, keep going on with it.

I don't condone brutality, it is insanity. Brutality is what the 1% thrive on. The world is watching good American people standing up for what is right, and showing them what we're dealing with is what they've recieved; I've seen no stronger testament to those in the USA who have protested for peace than this. That we are like the rest of the world in resisting the 1%. Why the OWS says Wall St. Is WAR St.

We are not the controllers of the world. But the OWS is helping to create a form of mass consciousness, inspired by the movements in Egypt and Wisconsin, to show a better way.

It's not the methodology of the OWS, but closer to that of the people you are attacking when you express your passion. I don't care any less than you about seeing people being brutalized, nor am I insensitive to it, having lived through it in my own life. The hatred though is a first response during the fight. It's part of the same coin.

Do you understand me any better? If not, go in peace.

[piratefish08]

47. i read your post. you believe they are allowed to have "trigger" words.

i don't.

[freshwest]

48. Not allowing. It just is. You've replied between my editing the original responses which took time.

There should be nothing I've written that says anyone, not the cops, nor the protestors, nor me or you that are allowed, without suffering the consequence, the insanity that words of defining others create. The 1% has successfully exploited this human weakness. We're playing tag here due to your shorter and faster responses to my editing and trying to refine the words that show what I mean. but we believe the same things.

[Kaleko]

50. "They're just doing their jobs."

"I was only following orders." "We had to do what we were told."

Where have we heard this before?

[rug]

34. That's 99 to 1 odds.

[WI_DEM]

41. unrecommend for use of word 'pig' we always hear about the bad ones

and there are bad ones, just like any other profession, but there are lots of good ones, too.

[TheKentuckian]

60. They are ALL bad ones until the good ones restrain or roll over on the bad ones.

There is no good in sitting silent for wickedness and it is not "just like any other profession" because no other profession has that kind of authority and ability to use force.

It also seems to attract personalities that are hostile to the general public and maintains a distinct and in their minds superior culture.

The "bad apple" excuse is a willful evasion of accountability and purposeful effort to whitewash more systemic problems.

[randome]

61. Do you know what a tautology is?

Your subject line is one.

[backscatter712]

62. One bad apple ruins the entire barrel is the full phrase.

The "good cops" are sitting silent, complying with and enforcing the Blue Code of Omerta, so I have just as much contempt for them as I do for the openly violent thugs.

[randome]

63. So when someone with OWS does something bad...

...you have contempt for all of OWS. Right?

[backscatter712]

69. Except the rest of OWS actually drums out the bad actors.

OWS doesn't have a code of omerta.

[randome]

71. Yeah, well, cops do good things across the country every day.

I am not at all defending those who abuse their authority and break the law. But it's ridiculous for anyone to say they are all the same.

[backscatter712]

43. Yesterday, one of my fellow occupiers reported receiving a death threat from the cops.

Yes. A death threat. From a cop to a protester who would never lift a finger in violence against anyone.

Compared to that, calling them names is incredibly mild.

[Kaleko]

65. Openly escalating the needlessly fabricated tensions with protesters, then.

The robocops don't come dressed to kill by accident. This is what the "Department of Homeland Security" was created for.

Bless the people in the streets instead of defending the indefensible.

[randome]

66. Where do you get that anyone is defending the indefensible?

If all cops are pigs because of atrocious over-reactions, then what happens when someone with OWS 'behaves badly'? Will that make everyone associated with OWS a criminal?

[Kaleko]

67. Looks like you feel called out by my remark.

Are you defending the indefensible?

[randome]

68. Way to deflect from the question.

Not interested in a conversation today, are you?

I am not defending those who act horribly. Nothing in my posts suggest that.

[Kaleko]

70. Not interested in batting your strawman around.

I've got more enlivening things to do than trying to shame people for using insults to characterize some group in the heat of an ongoing fight, whether they be used for the cops or the protesters alike.

[randome]

44. Using expletives like 'pigs'...

...is usually something thrown out there by someone who is NOT on the front lines.

It shows a lack of class.

IMO.

[pipi_k]

49. Yep...it was used

in the 60s by college-aged kids.

I'm 59. To me, from my perspective, people that age are children. Babies.


Babies use baby words.

Doo-doo (feces)

Pee pee (urine)

Pigs (Police, police officers)


Childish and cheap.

[emilyg]

64. +10

[ChiciB1]

51. Thanks For Posting! So Much Going On... Can't Get Away From TV

and/or actually participating in a local OWS! My HUSBAND is feeling my absence, but told him this is WHAT "we the people" MUST be doing now. We have 2 chocolate labs and they can't go with me to events, so he gets to babysit! I've waited far too long to see something more than APATHY and won't DARE miss it!

[slackmaster]

53. I thought we supported public employees here

:nuke:

[truebrit71]

54. We do. just not the ones that beat up non-violent, weaponless, defenseless, people exercising...

...their constitutional rights...

Those ones are pigs...

[pipi_k]

56. I doubt very much

that any of us here would NOT get caught up in some powerful emotions and react badly in a given situation.

Some DUers can't even manage to control their emotions on an internet discussion board, FGS!

I can't even count the number of times I've seen people get so enraged they call others some pretty nasty things. In many cases, just for disagreeing.


So yeah...OK. People can sit here in judgement of whatever group they want to and believe they're so civilized and under control that they would NEVER do the same things.

:eyes:


We are ALL just a hair trigger away from acting like uncivilized brutes.

[freshwest]

57. +1,000

[LanternWaste]

55. I'd hazard that a few post-men are pigs also

I imagine some cops are indeed pigs. I also imagine that some clerks are pigs too. I'd hazard that a few post-men are pigs also, and a few fast-food servers too, and a handful of writers are certainly pigs. A gaggle of poor-readers are pigs. I imagine the list of what occupation pigs work at is as long as the list of occupations...

I imagine we often advertise our own subjective biases and intractable dogmas by inserting irrelevancies, or by omission of a relevance.

[freshwest]

58. Great quote there.