Guy Fawkes at OWS

[Swede]

[TBF]

1. Love the sign! nt

[Bryn]

2. K&R

[patrice]

3. I still don't get the idea of saying YOU are for something but refusing to put your own identity on

it.

Without your own ownership of ___________________, _________________________ could be one thing one day and completely the opposite the next, so the idea that this is support of somekind just doesn't wash.

It could be a stance for nothing more than its own power to screw with whatever -OR- against whatever, an empty meme, completely self-referential, no objective referent out there in the concrete world.

[Exultant Democracy]

4. The end of the movie Spartacus must have left you baffled.

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. Oooh, very well-said.

No offense to the poster to whom you replied.

[patrice]

10. It wasn't the fact that the slaves just said that they were Spartacus that made their act heroic, it

was that in so doing they were saying that they'd take his own HONEST confrontation of the danger of the struggle for freedom onto themselves forever. It was his behavior they were identifying with and that's what made their claims to be Spartacus significant.

And what made Spartacus significant was that he took the responsibilities and risks of the struggle into his life without hiding.

[patrice]

6. It was completely clear what the slaves were for/against BECAUSE they put their own identities on

the line.

Not even remotely like this.

Nothing like that is happening with this mask thing.

[Exultant Democracy]

15. I was right it went right over your head. Point of order what the OP is showing

is an example of a cultural artifact which can trace its linage directly to "I am Spartacus." This is explicitly mentioned in the production notes for the movie V so this point isn't up for debate.

It is about the masses who are weak as individuals giving up their individual identity to become a symbol for something greater. As individuals they pose no threat to the current power structure but by casting off their individuality and joining with something greater they have the power to stand up for themselves.

[patrice]

24. Claiming one is Spartacus would be meaningless without Spartacus' behavior, which wasn't MASKED.

[patrice]

26. Weekend warriors wearing masks aren't in danger, like Spartacus was.

[patrice]

32. Assumptions about what the mask means: Do you believe everything anyone on the internet says?

[patrice]

7. The slaves put themselves in PHYSICAL DANGER. They didn't hide. You dishonor them by equating them

to this bullshit.

[Exultant Democracy]

11. You dishonor SCOTT OLSON by pretending OWS isn't in physical danger.

Disgusting to see a brave veteran maligned by keyboard commandos.

[patrice]

13. Scott Olson wasn't hiding behind a mask. You are equating OWS 100% with this mask bullshit.

It is not so.

[Huey P. Long]

16. Kicking and RECOMMENDING for Guy Fawkes at OWS!

I am the bullshit too!

[Exultant Democracy]

19. Everyone at OWS is in physical danger. I'm equating OSW with 100% threat of physical danger

You implied the members of the OWS are not putting themselves in danger when that is obviously not true.

[patrice]

17. By that logic, you apparently think making the sign of the cross saves your soul.

[ohheckyeah]

9. The point is

individual identity isn't important, it's the 99% that are important. It doesn't matter if you are young or old, black, white, Asian or Latino, what matters is unity and when everyone puts on the mask they are unified.

[patrice]

12. pardon me . . . bullshit. What makes an action significant is when an INDIVIDUAL FREELY chooses it

despite their differences with others.

Individuals being (different) individuals -AND- freely choosing to discover and share commonalities is the essence of synergy. Pretending otherwise, pretending there are no differences, is the essence of dysfunction and, hence, exploitation.

[ohheckyeah]

18. LOL....

Um, nobody is making anyone protest so with or without the mask they are freely choosing to protest.

I didn't say there were no differences, but unity is more important that the individual differences. There is a saying in Al-anon and AA "principles above personalities". That pretty much encapsulates what I am saying.

Exploitation? That's just ridiculous.

[patrice]

20. Q. Freely choosing to protest what? for what? against what? A. Because of the mask, A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G,

since there is no personal accountability.

[ohheckyeah]

21. Because people with masks on don't get arrested?

Yes, freely choosing to protest whatever the fuck they want to. So? They can do that with or without a mask.

You're being ridiculous.

[patrice]

23. Sure they do, but not ALL of them, leaving others to do whatever. You're being naive to think

this mask stuff is ONE attitude/perspective/set-of-values. It isn't.

[ohheckyeah]

27. And not everyone who isn't wearing a mask

gets arrested leaving the others to do whatever.

[patrice]

28. At least they, whatever else they are/aren't doing, have the courage to put their own name on it. nt

[ohheckyeah]

31. They're wearing name tags?

LOL If a person is arrested wearing a mask their name is out there as well.

Why don't you put your full name as your user name so you can show you have the courage to stand behind your comments? You expect more from others than you demand of yourself?

Maybe not everyone wearing the mask honors the intent of solidarity and being unified, but it doesn't change the actual meaning of wearing the mask. At the end of V the whole point was unity.

[patrice]

30. i.e. not even unity, or, perhaps, most especially not unity. nt

[patrice]

22. BTW, I have talked to some of them & they HAVE said any and all of it is independent from

any and all other maskers. Anarchy, pseudo-anarchy actually in this case, isn't just a two-way street, it's a street that goes in ALL direction.

We had some come into our occupation recently and tell us how dumb the GA is and that we won't be successful unless we get MSM coverage, which they said we won't because no one wants to be associated with the stupid hand signals we use for temperature check. You can't get more conformist than that and that IS enabled by the masks.

[Huey P. Long]

25. The PEOPLE= "goes in ALL direction". zooooooooooom.

"We are one."

[zalinda]

34. Should the person lose their job, because of their politics?

That is the reality with some of these people. They ARE putting their lives on the line though. At any time, they could be killed for what they believe in.

zalinda

[Zorra]

8. !t's V!

That "idea" is from the film V for Vendetta.

[Fire Walk With Me]

14. Exactly. It's about the character "V", not specifically his accoutrement.

[Fire Walk With Me]

29. Would every just please watch "V for Vendetta" and consider that it is about "V" and not

specifically the mask itself or Mr. Fawkes? That it might be used to represent how an idea is more important than a person, and that when everyone gets that same idea, things Change?

[ohheckyeah]

33. As I said upthread...

unity. Principles above personalities.

[Fire Walk With Me]

35. ...

:thumbsup:

The mask means, "I support this idea".