Maybe this will be easier. What tactics if any by OWS do you

[mmonk]

disagree with (make sure these are tactics agreed on by OWS)? What are the deficiencies in OWS's message(s) do you see if any? What is a better method than the present protest to be heard? What is a better method of its governance than it's general assemblies? Do you think it should be stopped or they should stop or not?

Hope nobody was offended by this line of questioning. I want the focus to be away from the questioner and toward the questions. This is for my curousity. If there is something worthwhile in the answers, it can passed on. Thanks to any who would like to participate. I will check the answers if there are any later. I won't comment.

[DonCoquixote]

1. The on;y thing I would shun

is if they started getting violent against people. Note, I did not say cops, I said innocent people. If I am used to going to a park, and that park gets occupied, I would want not to be attacked.

[ret5hd]

4. Has that happened anywhere?

[DonCoquixote]

16. at tedrall.com

Ted CLAIMS someone tried to stab someone with an HIV infected needle.

[ret5hd]

17. the way you say it doesn't sound very convincing.

[DonCoquixote]

19. I doubt ted a lot

but that does not mean threatening people with HIV is kosher.

[ret5hd]

21. well, yeah, ok, you are right about that...

i could say the same thing about a lot of things.

Now, back to our original subject. Has anyone from the occupy movement done that?

[DonCoquixote]

24. not known

but the op asked what would NOT be supported, not a call to quote instances.

[ret5hd]

25. Yeah, I understand what you said, but at no time, not even once...

have i heard OWS calling for violence against anyone. Not cops, not civilians, not squirrels, not cats. No one.

So, what the OP asked about was OWS tactics. You brought up violence, which is not an OWS tactic. And you gave an example. I asked if that example ever happened, even once. You gave a link that you yourself found suspect (let's face it: he is both unreliable and a crackpot).

It seemed you were insinuating that violence is an OWS tactic. I contend this is not and has never been true.

[randome]

2. Stop wasting time fighting for camping rights.

A greater number of protests. The march on Wall Street is a step in the right direction.

Should there be a march on Washington?

The vast majority of people who advocate a more activist role are not trying to disband the movement or denigrate it. But those who presume to speak for OWS and yet expect no input from others do a disservice to themselves and to DU.

[Luminous Animal]

6. There is a good reason why Occupiers are fighting for the right to assemble...

This from an Occupy Oakland member...

I started coming regularly to Occupy Oakland to report on it, spending ten or twelve hours there, doing interviews and watching the community. I was very impressed with what I saw. What really sucked me in was when I began to understand the kitchen, and how it became a focal point of what makes OO unique among the occupieds. Many people I spoke to–the unusual suspects in terms of activism, poor, and unemployed–had been drawn to the camp by the kitchen, which was running 24 hours a day. They then became real participants in the camp. The kitchen also allowed them to become part of the camp immediately, allowing them to cook, serve or wash dishes, and interact with others in a tangible way, not just sitting in a or meeting. . . .

It may sound corny, but the camp has given me the chance to use all of my human skills in the service of others, from conflict mediation, to crisis management, to writing and oratory, and simply providing an ear for troubled people, who can nevertheless be functioning members of society if just given a chance. I actually feel like I do that about ten times a day. There are a lot of troubled people there, they represent the people who’ve been turned away from society. There’s a lot of pent up hostility and resentment, but it comes out in the open, we wrestle with it, we are allowed to understand it and begin to know one another.

The camp has given my life real purpose, and brought out the best in me and allowed me to befriend the widest breadth of human experience anyone can imagine. While other occupies are focused strictly on the 1% issue, I think at OO a lot of us are excited about finally being able to talk about systemic problems in an atmosphere where the public will listen. We are talking about homelessness, about the right to dignity, the right to be free of harrassment and violence from police and others. I really feel like we’ve forced Oakland to have conversations its put off for a long time about violence and poverty and the city’s response to it, which is to marginalize it and ignore it, while crying crocodile tears.

Its difficult to describe, but the social construction of the camp has been part of the political movement, and our success has already been in declaring that middle class teachers, union workers, homeless people and even mentally ill people can inhabit the same political space as equals. This is the strength that we used to launch an unprecedented action at the port of Oakland, where tens of thousands responded to the call and shut down the port of Oakland as a clarion call to the nation and city. It was the largest human mass I’ve ever seen in my life. We’ve shown mainstream people that the right to assemble is a right that they can take without mediation or permission, and that the power of assembly can even push police back, as we did when we retook the camp two weeks ago. Despite the fact that it was fenced off, people took down the fence, and replanted tents. I just feel like we’re transforming society with each person who comes to the camp and becomes a part of it. We’re changing long held views about who matters and why, and what a just society should actually look like, and what powers people have to change all that.

As we prepare for the end of the camp again, I’m reminded of just how special all of these people are to me. We expected an imminent raid last night. We know that we can’t resist the demolition of the camp, and that we have lost some support due to media and city propaganda. So it looks like we’re really looking at the end again. We’re all exhausted, but it really still feels like a family. Someone I don’t even like much hugged me last night and it was so genuine and real that I had to choke back tears.

We also know that even if Occupy Oakland ends tomorrow in its current incarnation, the assembly of people gathered there will continue on in another unique social and political movement. That’s the legacy of the camp, no matter what happens tonight.

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/17/ows_inspired_activism/singleton/

[randome]

9. I think this is the point.

The writer in the article says OWS is 'a social experiment'.

I want it to be about protesting economic injustice.

[Luminous Animal]

11. Actually, the writer say that Occupy Oakland is addressing economic justice..

not merely protesting it.

"While other occupies are focused strictly on the 1% issue, I think at OO a lot of us are excited about finally being able to talk about systemic problems in an atmosphere where the public will listen. We are talking about homelessness, about the right to dignity, the right to be free of harrassment and violence from police and others. I really feel like we’ve forced Oakland to have conversations its put off for a long time about violence and poverty and the city’s response to it, which is to marginalize it and ignore it, while crying crocodile tears."

[randome]

12. He says both.

But I could read more carefully, too.

[dmallind]

3. Some are clearly suboptimal

The basic "occupy" idea is one bound to get less and less sympathy the longer it goes on for a start. A series of co-ordinated demonstrations is less likely to turn people off by making them associate the group with negative stereotypes and ongoing inconvenience.

Not all "OWS" groups do this but the big high profile ones do.

[randome]

5. I like the word 'Occupy'...

...but I wonder if some other name should be considered, for the reason you mentioned.

[lbrtbell]

7. More USA flags, more red-white-blue

Make the crowd look as patriotic as possible, to help dispel the image of the OWS people as "left-wing fanatics", "socialists", etc. That's what helped the Tea Party, and it can help us.

Making the flag and its colors our own is also symbolic of taking back our country, and our rights. The Republicans don't own the flag, and I'm sick of them thinking they do!

Finally...imagine how awful it will look, when the cops move in and start destroying American flags. Great photo ops, to show just how anti-American those thugs really are.

Thanks for asking for input!

[randome]

10. That's an interesting tactic.

And one that doesn't need to be faked since OWS is about as patriotic a movement as you can get.

[bigtree]

8. I think the movement should keep its legislative demands at the head of its protests

I don't believe the movement should cede any political ground. I would like to see a clear platform on which we can solicit and field candidates to represent our initiatives in Congress.

As for the 'occupations', I say carry on. They have my admiration for their tenacity. I remember a tent city protest in D.C. during my youth. My dad took me around to see it. It was a 'poor peoples' protest, I believe. It was allowed to stand for a time. I don't remember how it ended, but I always think back to that one with wonder at the splendid audacity of the protestors. I view these protests around the nation the same.

I think it may be a bit early to pass judgment on the general assemblies. I think some folks here would be surprised at the back and forth that's gone on among participants. They may be even more taken aback by the deliberations and agreements going forward. Most protests have a growing period, during which there are tugs and shoves to set a decisive course. I don't expect this protest movement to avoid all of that internal positioning, either.

What I'd like to see is more coalition building within government among legislators who share some of the goals of the movement. That doesn't seem to be in the cards right now. I don't believe we will achieve true transformational changes without forging the necessary alliances within our political system to actually implement our initiatives and ideals into action or law.

[mmonk]

13. Poor People's Campaign.

The same month thousands of poor people of all races set up a shantytown known as “Resurrection City.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_People's_Campaign

[bigtree]

14. okay, Resurrection City. That's it.

wiki:

'Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated on April 4, 1968. The SCLC and other leaders decided to continue the campaign in King’s honor. A month later on May 12, 1968, demonstrators began a two-week protest in Washington, D.C.. The same month thousands of poor people of all races set up a shantytown known as “Resurrection City.” The city was closed down in mid-June and the economic bill of rights was never passed.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_People%27s_Campaign
_______________

I remember the riots well. Smoldering brick and an inordinate number of men carrying TVs down the street on their shoulders (I kid not). Broken glass, fire, chaos.

That was the time of my political awakening. I think it started when I heard this young man walking down the street in front of my house, chanting, "Say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud! Say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud!"

I thought he was saying, 'say it loud, I'm black and I'm brown . . ." I thought, that's me.

[frazzled]

15. Disrupting the wrong people

I'm all in favor, for example, of several OWS Chicago actions: disruption of the national Mortgage Banker's Association Meeting here, interruption of a Scott Walker speech, or precluding a speech by Condoleeza Rice at the U of C. Correct targets.

I would also approve of protesting at the headquarters of specific large corporations that are at the heart of our problems and complaints. I am also for protesting directly to politicians about legislation. And I'm fine if there is a continual presence in Wall Street or the financial districts in other cities--shifts that maintain a presence 24/7 can be accomplished. (They're doing that here in Chicago, where the local OWS movement decided NOT to press the camping issue a long time ago.)

What I don't approve of is camping in parks, partly because that becomes an end in itself, and it becomes a conflict between cities--themselves struggling to provide services, jobs, and protection to their citizens--and the protesters. The message is lost. It also disturbs the people in the surrounding neighborhoods who are trying to live their lives, and it's attracting a lot of the wrong types of people. And I also don't approve of things like in Oakland or Seattle where there have been vandalism-type or obstructive tactics at places like branch banks. That just harms the lowly workers there and the poorer or older people who have to use these banks because they don't have credit cards/debit cards/or bank electronically.

So basically, the deciding factor should be: who are we trying to disrupt here: ordinary people, workers trying to get to their jobs, policemen and firemen who have other duties to attend to? Or the large banks and corporations and the politicians who abet their harmful practices? I say if it's not focused directly at the latter, I don't approve.

[HereSince1628]

18. From what I've seen I don't think they are using flashmobs effectively.

The demonstrations in big cities look a lot like protests I witnessed in the 1960's. There are a lot more communications tools available to protestors than there were 50 years ago.

Of course the Occupiers may be wanting to draw media coverage and police. Getting those parts of the game on site would require always announcing their actions ahead of time.

[H2O Man]

20. None.

I love OWS.

Recommended.

[Luminous Animal]

22. In both San Francisco & Oakland, they've facilitated infrastructure to provide food and provide

mental health care to people who need either or both.

http://occupysf.com/news/123-mayor-negotiates-in-bad-faith-city-admits-blundering-communications

After decades of declining conditions for the poor and middle class, OccupySF and its partners are committed to providing services and support to those that the economic system has left behind. With the assistance of community support groups including clergy, labor, and nurses, programs are currently being put in place in many areas in which the city has expressed concern.

“Forty clergy, including bishops, have recently formed as ‘San Francisco Interfaith Allies of Occupy’ because we share the concerns of the ninety-nine percent,” said Rev. Carol Been of CLUE California, “and they have asked us for help because they were not prepared to handle homelessness, mental illness, people attracted for unseemly reasons not associated with the occupation. Resources have recently begun to be put into place.”

...

The OccupySF medical tent sees 30-50 patients each day, and is staffed with volunteers from the California Nurses Assoc. currently on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Between the donated nursing services as well as the daily medical supplies used, more than five thousand dollars in donated medical care is provided each week.

...

The OccupySF kitchen currently serves twelve-fifteen hundred meals a day, including non-Occupy campers and the “homeless” who have taken up residence with OccupySF. The majority of food donations come from individuals with support from local farmer’s markets, the Teamsters, local coffee shops, and the Ferry Building. Despite having no refrigeration or on-site cooking, the OccupySF kitchen provides more than ten thousand five hundred dollars of food each week.

[Remember Me]

23. There's not a single thing I'd change. They amaze and awe me with

their incredible resilience and creativity. I don't even understand why you're asking the question which I consider pointless and without merit.