There is no federal involvement....

[nadinbrzezinski]

Every time I read that it's like nobody learned from other protests,

Does that mean this was ordered by the POTUS? Nope, way bellow his pay grade. But you are seriously telling me the FBI, at the very least, is not infiltrating OWS and you are keeping a straight face. Seriously.

Now we're reaching a fork where the president, or at least his cabinet WILL have to be involved. There are two paths, Ike's or troops to supress this. But we are reaching that point.

Oh and last time I checked the FBI is a federal agency.

DHS is involved most like at the same level the FBI is. And it is naive, or obtuse in the extreme, to believe otherwise. And has nothing to do with party or resident in WH.

[sarcasmo]

1. By this point it would not surprise me that the CIA was involved as well.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Remember Rachel told us of CIA involvement with NYPD.

It be naive in the extreme the profilers are not working.

[Ship of Fools]

2. Ik's or troops. Yep, it's up to you, Mr. President! Will you let us down again?

[DainBramaged]

4. Some here deny the government's involvement......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2320095

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. I know, extremely naive or obtuse.

[emulatorloo]

11. Or still have their critical reading skills intact

Since the two of you are calling me out, here I am.

A single unsubstantiated piece in a questionable blog which is then repeated over and over again as " proof" is not good enough to claim something is true.

Remember when the wingnut forums went wild over "Obama wants to ban fishing" or "HCR mandates all men be circumcised."?

The Feds may or may not have been involved, but to imagine that the DU echo chamber can transform an unsubstantiated blog post into the TRUTH by repeating it over and over is a bit disturbing to those who have a higher standard of fact.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. So you are telling me the FBI is not involved

What year do you want me to start with this long history? Notice I did not mention THAT article. But you will also question actual photos of the NYPD anti terror unit, which works with profilers from the CIA per Rachel Maddow. You will also deny actual photos of DHS officers and witness reports from Michael Moore and Naomi Klein.

No, this was NOT ordered at the WH level. There are specific triggers that go off well bellow his pay grade

But you are being serious...you actually believe, and you are not alone, nor was I thinking of you...that the FBI is not doing this shit AGAIN.

[emulatorloo]

15. The rumor DU is pushing as fact is that the feds "coordinated" the attacks

Sometimes it is said that "DHS" is doing it. Other times the "FBI." Other times "The Justice Department"

Has the FBI infiltrated OWS and is doing surveillance? Sure there is a high probabality of that. I know all about that history.

That is different than what is being claimed in theexaminer blog post and is being treated as verified fact by DU'ers.

I am glad you brought up Maddow, she is a source I trust 100%

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. The reality is that Feds get involve in things like this

We call this STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE.

Incidentally photos of DHS officers is not anecdotal evidence.

Nor are photos of the anti terror NYPD anti terror unit that WORKS with CIA per Rachel Maddow.

No, the POTUS did not order this, assuming those photos are real as well as witness reports.

How much coordination, or lack off, will not emerge for years to come.

But it is incredibly naive to believe absolutely, cross my heart, that this has zero chance of happening just because my team is in the WH. Federal involvement in civil disobedience goes as far back as the turner raids in the 1920s, at least. So over 90 years of history is tere for you to chew on.

[emulatorloo]

17. I am not naive

I just have a higher standard of proof on the "coordination" angle.

No where have I expressed any doubt over the photos or eyewitness reports.

Maddow is one of the most thorough reporter out there, I believe I said that before.

I think you and I agree more than you think on the basic issues.

I have just had a real problem with DU in the last year or so regarding the blind acceptance of any source, as long as the source feeds into the latest popular scenario.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. But I did not link there

I posted evidence from credible sources such as bbc.

And in my mind, source or no source...in years to come...at the innevitable hearings that will come well after dust settles...this will come out...the same way the hearings in 1976 revealed that other series of violations.

To me this is sop..coordination is happening under the rubric of anti terrorism, the same way it was done against the grannies for peace. Did bush order that one? No. Just as much as this was not personally ordered by this president. It is what the national security state is.

You will see...this will emerge after the dust settles, as much as it has in the past.

[jeff47]

22. Make sure you read the "credible" source

Many of them are quoting the examiner. Since you didn't provide a link here, I don't know what story you're talking about.

[red dog 1]

23. On the Subject of the Hearings in 1976.....Church Committee Investigation

"The critical question before the Committee was to determine how the fundamental liberties of the people can be maintained in the course of the Government's effort to protect their security.
The delicate balance between these basic goals of our system of government is often difficult to strike; but it can, and must, be achieved.
We reject the view that the traditional American principles of justice and fair play have no place in our struggle against the enemies of freedom.
Moreover, our investigation has established that the targets of intelligence activity
have ranged far beyond persons who could properly be characterized as enemies of freedom and have extended to a wide array of citizens engaging in lawful activity."

1. INTRODUCTION AND SUMMARY

FINAL REPORT OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE TO STUDY GOVERNMENTAL OPERATIONS WITH RESPECT TO
INTELLIGENCE ACTIVITIES.......(CHURCH COMMITTEE REPORT).....April 26, 1976

www.thirdworldtraveler.com/FBI/Church_Committee_Report.html

[Freddie Stubbs]

6. You are equating school integration with the right to have a sleeping bag in a privately owned park?

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Well, actually civil rights

But that's ok...

You see camping in a park is not political speech, but camping in the park in the configuration OWS took is political speech.

Now I know that first Ammendment is academic, even for press... Oh and it was the state that created this new civil rights fight.

As is there are ways for those camps to go away and they do not involve a police baton...it is pretty easy. Alas dc is tone deaf.

[Fumesucker]

8. All constitutional rights are equal..

Some are just more equal than others..

[redqueen]

9. It amazes me that this idea is controversial.

Too many people are too fond of using strawman arguments around here.

Federal involvement != "Obama did it!"

I think it's shameless disingenuousness.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Well people live in a team mentality

If my guys are the good ones, of course they'd never do that. I'd like to ask POTUS how he personally feels about those triggers that go off well bellow him. That is why granny's for peace were infiltrated during the bush years...I hope they enjoyed the cookies. Oh and bush didn't personally order that one either.

It just is. POTUS involvement means ordering those automatic triggers, well not to trigger.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HereSince1628]

12. I imagine DHS and FBI are doing surveillance and information

sharing between local and state agencies at a minimum.

Those agencies have undoubtedly developed and shared training materials for crowd control so it wouldn't surprise me if they were also providing direct advice.

[madinmaryland]

20. I would tend to agree their involvement includes the those things.

As far as taking an active roll in it, probably not so much, but they are definitely involved.

[Lars39]

14. DHS has local offices in a lot of places.

And they're not necessarily only in the bigger cities. Around here DHS helps organize drug busts on I40....you'd have to be willfully ignorant to think they didn't have any influence on local police departments.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Kick