In A Way... It's Probably A Good Thing That The WWII Generation Is Fading From The Scene...

[WillyT]

My old man was a Marine B-25 Bomber Pilot in the South Pacific during the war. He was also a Democrat, a Liberal, and a Journalist. One of his buddies was Joe Rosenthal...

Of this picture taking fame...



And as much as I miss my old man (he died in 1975), I am so glad he is not here now to see the shit we've become.

Can't speak for all of them, but I know MY father didn't fight for this crap!

:wtf:

What have we become?

:banghead:

:kick:

[GodlessBiker]

1. Huh? In many ways, I'm glad that we've grown out of the shit that was going on back then.

[etherealtruth]

15. I get the impression from the OP

... that his father fought to overcome the sh*t that was going on back then ... and would be horrified by the re-emergence of some of that very sh*t.

[WillyT]

16. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!

Thank you.

:hi:

:kick:

[freshwest]

46. My dad would too. In fact, my entire father's family would be.

[emilyg]

49. + a zillion

[MrMickeysMom]

52. ...and that is what my mother said before she faded...

... in 2007... She admitted hating to see what we had become under Bush and ever since the days of Reagan. She knew it because she had perspective and had lived her life with father and husband fighting WW's in the name of something she simply didn't believe was real anymore.

That was a heart break. The only concluding thought I could have with her was to say that I would not stop the good fight.

And.... I will not stop.

[TheWraith]

20. Indeed. People don't appreciate how much better things are today than 60 years ago.

It's the rose-colored glasses effect, where the 1950s turn magically into some kind of time of full employment, robust growth, and high pay for everyone. Ignoring of course how a black man made a third of what a white man did, or that there wasn't a safe place in the country to openly say you were gay, or that women were treated like property, and on, and on.

Although some people would like to ignore it and play woe is us, the US and the world are far better off today than we ever have been before, and things continue to improve.

[Downwinder]

23. One hour labor at minimum wage would buy five gallons of gas

or five loaves of bread. You could cruise Central Ave. on a dollar of gas.

I had gays living on one side and lesbians on the other and nobody ever said anything. Attended an integrated school without any racial overtones.

[Bluenorthwest]

58. You should read up on how many of your gay neighbors were

arrested and jailed during the era you speak of, for the crime of being gay. It was a crime, and your police force arrested us in great numbers while you were 'cruising Central Av'.

[WillyT]

24. Dude... Pass Me The Bong When You're Done...

FDR laws being rolled back.

Segregation laws being rolled back.

Rights for Women being rolled back.

The Bill of Rights being rolled back.

The Constitution of the United States of America being rolled back.

I've got more... if you want it.

:shrug:

[TheWraith]

30. Your post is a perfect example of what I mean.

The massive exaggeration of the negative, and squelching of the positive.

[WillyT]

32. LOL !!! - Well... There You And I Can Agree... We Are Not As Fucked Up As We Used To Be, But...

the progress you and I speak of is under threat... and I do not see ANYBODY I can count on to stand up for the hard fought gains we've made.

In a rational world...it wouldn't even be a question.

:shrug:

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hifiguy]

60. You have to differentiate between the economics

and the social/rights issues.

Economically, the average middle class person was in far better shape in the 1950s and 1960s than s/he is now.

The social progress in terms of civil rights has been huge, but the reichwingers want to roll all of that back too.

[sabrina 1]

35. Lol.

I wonder why if someone thinks things are so rosy right now, they are involved in the political at all. Or is to preserve the status quo for the minority who have benefited from all the corruption and deregulation and crime? I never thought of that, but I do see people fighting so hard to convince others that everything is just fine.

I wonder too if there are people in this world who see things only from their own pov, and cannot see the people who are actually suffering, some even dying from poverty and lack of access to HC.

The 'I'm okay so who cares about everyone else' mentality was not something I used to associate with the Dem Party. But it seems lately I was so wrong about that.

[WillyT]

37. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!

Yeah... Huh ???

:yourock:

:hi:

[timtom]

61. Oh, we have, have we?

Outgrown the shit going on back then? So, this shit is better?

Zowie!

[The Traveler]

2. My dad ... Army Air Corps

Yeah. He would have felt the same way. Passed in 1980.

[Ken Burch]

3. Phil Ochs wrote a great tribute to the best values of the World War II soldiers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPDxYzt51hE

[Fire Walk With Me]

4. "My old man was a Marine B-25 Bomber Pilot in the South Pacific..."

Dang. My respect. (tips hat)

[WillyT]

7. He Learned To Fly With The Navy... Trained On A Stearman...

Was "placed" with the Marines, and was a boxer during the Navy transport (ships) to the South Pacific. Won more than a fight or two, the family lore suggests. :D

And he was one hell of a great father.

Learned a lot from him in the time we had.

:hi:

[Fire Walk With Me]

11. "The greatest generation"...no question about it.

We need some of that steel-jaw stuff right about now.

[dixiegrrrrl]

5. I understand your sentiments, I really do.

Your are talking about my grandparents, whose sons were enlisted in WW2, and my mother, who married a sailor at the almost end of the war ( he died).So both of those generations got the fun of the Depression AND the war.
In my case, all the members of that generation are now gone.

for those of us were aware and active during the late 60's and 70's, this crap is extremely hard to take.

[WillyT]

12. :)

:grouphug:

:loveya:

:hi:

:kick:

[DURHAM D]

6. "What have we become?"

Speak for yourself.

My father, a WWII vet, who died less than two years ago hated the term greatest generation because it implied the prior and subsequent generations were not so great. He would find your post offensive.

[WillyT]

10. And Where Did I Say... "Greatest Generation" ???

I did not. And... my old man would have equally been offended.

BUT... they DID NOT FIGHT FOR THE MONEYED CLASS TO TURN THIS COUNTRY INTO A FASCIST STATE.

And I happen to KNOW that, from the things that me and my father talked about.

Chill dude...

:wtf:

[guitar man]

8. My dad passed in '07

He was a native Texan and he despised W* with every fiber of his being.

He joined the Navy in 1947, was one of the last China sailors and served in the occupation forces in Japan before serving in the Korean War. He came home with two purple hearts and a leg full of shrapnel. Worked as an over the road trucker, die hard Teamster and a true labor Democrat.

He died heartbroken at what the country he fought for had become. He railed against the corporatist system and the screwing American workers were getting to his dying day.

Miss you pops. :patriot:

[RufusTFirefly]

9. Fascism

My dad told me that when he came back from WWII it used to piss him off how readily his college classmates would use the word "fascism" against anything with which they didn't agree. It annoyed him because he'd just returned from fighting actual fascism and felt that these reckless remarks trivialized it.

He mentioned this about five years ago (he died in 2009) when we were talking about George W. Bush and he confessed that for perhaps the first time since the war he felt the cries of "fascism" actually rang true. The way the country was changing really concerned and frightened him.

[Odin2005]

13. My Greatest Generation grandmother died in 2009 at 87.

She proudly voted for Obama in 2008, thinking he was a new FDR. In a way I'm glad she died before she realized Obama was Hooverm instead.

[Raine]

14. My father too was WWII. My father was thrilled to see Obama as the nominee

and thought this would usher in a whole new progressive era. Unfortunately he didn't live long enough to see him actually become president, which makes me sad. Fortunately though he didn't have to see the destruction of the middle class and this country turning into a banana repblic. :mad:

[enlightenment]

17. my dad was a B-25 navigator in China - 11th Bomb Squadron.

Went on to fly another 31 years in SAC as a pilot. He's reaching the end of his time now - pretty much unaware of what's going on these days and I'm glad. He remembers his youth and talks to my mom (who passed in March). That's a much happier place for him than what the world has become. He didn't fight for this crap, either.

[Hardrada]

18. Neither did my dad or uncles or Grandfather.

And I think my ancestors left Norway because of similar elitist rule.

[Lint Head]

19. I feel exactly the way you do. Soldiers in Iraq died for oil and money.

WWII was to end the fascism and absolute iron fisted control of portions of the world population. The financial entities of that time also profited on both sides. But, today we are witnessing the very things they fought and died for coming back in a new modern form of control. WWII came out of the old ways of war and conflict dating back to the methods kings and generals formulated. We are in a new dynamic that people are seeming to start to understand and rise up against. History is reaping itself before our eyes.

[Brigid]

21. But don't you think they would be heartened to see . . .

Developments like "Arab Spring" and OWS?

[WillyT]

25. I Guess... But...

When they've seen what they've seen... of man's inhumanity to man...



And they come in to end it...



They should be forgiven for thinking we would NEVER go down that road again.

:shrug:

:hi:

[ellisonz]

50. My grandparents are Holocaust survivors...

...and I think they would tell you that the political events of today are not the same thing as those of the 1930s and 1940s. Hitler was a beast unto his own.

"Never Again"

:shrug:

[RagAss]

22. My dad was a WWII Army Medic...he died in 2005.

He lived long enough to see the fascists take over here.

[Leopolds Ghost]

26. My grandpa (WWII vet, Hurtgen) died before I was born, and now my uncle who knew him is passing.

Tip o' the hat to you and your'n.

[WillyT]

27. Likewise...

:hi:

:grouphug:

[randome]

28. We are not shit.

This country is not shit. It needs fixing.

[WillyT]

33. This Country Is What We Make Of It... And I'm Kinda Pissed Off Tonight...

We worship at the 1st Amendemnt, and at the same time, take the press out of covering a major part of a major story... for "safety" reasons.

Give me a friggin break.

:shrug:

[randome]

34. Yeah, we got problems.

And abuses and over-reactions and inequality. We need to fix them, not just lament that life is unfair.

[BlueIris]

29. I was thinking that about my grandfather on 11/3/04.

I miss him a lot, but on that night I was thinking, "I'm so glad he didn't have to sit here and watch this fraud unfold."

[EFerrari]

31. My mom was born in 1932 and she's LOVING OWS.

I'm so glad she got to see it after forty years of squat.

[sabrina 1]

36. I sometimes help with an 86 yr old relative who did serve

in WW11 and he loves this movement. He watches RT and Keith and thinks it's great that people are standing up for this country again.

[Nye Bevan]

39. A free, vigorous democracy where we can (and do) say anything we like about our leaders

without fear of consequence. I think that kind of *is* what they were fighting for. I know people here tend to over-dramatize things but living under President Romney would not be comparable to living through the war against Hitler.

[WillyT]

40. "where we can (and do) say anything we like about our leaders without fear of consequence."

Ladies and Gentleman of the Jury... THAT is the question.



:shrug:

[Nye Bevan]

41. Zuccotti Park is open 24/7 to protestors.

They just are not allowed to camp there.

[WillyT]

42. You Speak Boomberg Mayor Talk Real Good... 1st Amendment... We'll See...

:shrug:

[piratefish08]

43. yeah man! it's like freedom! but not really!

[Nye Bevan]

44. If "freedom" is defined as "freedom to camp in public parks" then I guess we are not free.

And we have not been free since at least 1984:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_v._C.C.N.V.

Clark, Secretary of the Interior, et al. V. Community Creative Non-Violence et al., 468 U.S. 288 (1984) was a United States Supreme Court case that challenged the National Park Service's regulation which specifically prohibited sleeping in Lafayette Park and the National Mall. The Community for Creative Non-Violence (CCNV) group had planned to hold a demonstration on the National Mall and Lafayette Park where they would erect tent cities to raise awareness of the situation of the homeless. The group obtained the correct permits for a seven day demonstration starting on the first day of winter. The Park Service however denied the request that participants be able to sleep in the tents. The CCNV challenged this regulation with the basis that it violated their First Amendment right.

.....

The Supreme Court issued its decision on June 29, 1984 and in a 7-2 majority vote in favor of the National Parks Service, it was held that the regulations did not violate the First Amendment. The Court stressed that expression is subject to reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions, also that the means of the protest went against the government's interest in maintaining the condition of the national parks. The Court felt that the protest was not being threatened all together and that it could take place in a park where sleeping was permitted. In essence because the demonstrators could find alternative ways of voicing their message their First Amendment right was safe. The regulation in question is also considered to be content neutral meaning the regulation did not have a bias against a form of expression.

[provis99]

45. that's the Rehnquist court for ya.

The fascist forerunner of the current Scalia-Thomas-Alito Star Chamber.

[Nye Bevan]

47. John Paul Stevens voted with the majority.

What a fascist.

[provis99]

54. Stevens was right wing.

He only looks left wing today because the court became even more right wing, and he looked like a liberal in comparison.

[piratefish08]

55. it's not camping and the tents are symbolic. but you knew that.

[Nye Bevan]

57. If "not camping" is defined as "pitching tents and sleeping in them" then yes, you are correct.

Justice John Paul Stevens did not buy that definition back in 1984, however.

[RegieRocker]

48. So very true. Brings sadness....

[Major Hogwash]

51. Willy, I think you struck a nerve with this OP.

My old man didn't fight for this crap either.
He is yelling at me from his grave, "Get off of your ass and stop this shit!!"

I can still hear his voice as clear as a bell, yet to this day.
He was a WWII veteran in the Army.
He died in 1982.
Just before Christmas that year.

Damn, he used to yell a lot.

[WillyT]

62. I'm Glad MH... I think That Nerve Needs To Be Struck...

:hi:

:kick:

[matmar]

53. Marines flew US Army B-25's?

B-25 Mitchell's were US Army Air Force. How is it your USMC father flew them? Just curious...

The "Greatest Generation" experienced the Great Depression created by the banksters of the 1920's, elected a real liberal in FDR that helped to create the greatest middle class in history. As their generation dies off the lessons of the past die with them and end up having to be learned all over again.

[WillyT]

63. Yeah... He Flew The One With The Solid Nose And A 75mm Cannon In The Front...

The North American B-25 Mitchell was an American twin-engined medium bomber manufactured by North American Aviation. It was used by many Allied air forces, in every theater of World War II, as well as many other air forces after the war ended, and saw service across four decades.

The B-25 was named in honor of General Billy Mitchell, a pioneer of U.S. military aviation. By the end of its production, nearly 10,000 B-25s in numerous models had been built. These included a few limited variations, such as the United States Navy's and Marine Corps' PBJ-1 patrol bomber and the United States Army Air Forces' F-10 photo reconnaissance aircraft.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_B-25_Mitchell

:hi:

[steve2470]

56. My dad was in the Battle of the Bulge, US Army artillery, 3rd Armored Division

He was a life-long Democrat and I KNOW if he were still alive, he'd not be happy with how things are. He died in 2009.

[Bluenorthwest]

59. My WW2 vet Dad would have despised Bush and been sad

to see Obama fail to deliver, but he was not a binary thinker, and he would have also been thrilled to see Obama elected, he hated discrimination. He would have been thrilled to see the progress made on GLBT rights, because he loved me and his other gay family and friends, and he despised the contempt most straights held for us.
So my Dad would not be saying we are shit. He did not think like that. And I hate to tell the OP this, but lots of people do not think of that time as golden, due to discrimination, arrest, segregation, censorship of arts, red scares, blacklisting, beating of civil rights protesters, and on and on. He's say we have made some good progress while allowing other elements to go fallow. He'd not say 'we are shit and it was better when gays were in jail and black people had to live way, way over yonder'.