In my opinion it is time for the OWS movement to change their strategy

[Tx4obama]

I’m sure there will be those that disagree with what I am going to say, but that is fine - we all have a right to our own opinions.

In my opinion it is time for the logistics/strategy of OWS to change a bit.

As of now the majority of raids are happening at night, under the cover of dark.
When the majority of attendees that are out at night are the young, with a small minority of older folks and children.

I think that instead of the encampments that are being used to sleep in overnight - that there should just be daily ‘marches’ during the DAYTIME that would include people of ALL ages - this would allow everything to be seen in the light of day by the media and during the daytime the police would be less likely to attack when their faces are more visible. And instead of ‘occupying’ parks - strategic places should be targeted such as: congressmen’s offices, university administration offices, offices of hedgefunders, insurance companies that are screwing Americans, the headquarters of the oil companies, etc.

I believe that EVERYONE has a right to assemble, but I do NOT agree that everyone has a right to pitch a tent anywhere they wish to do so at anytime they wish to do so.

I believe that the OWS protests are needed and are an important way to bring issues out into the open, but now that the camps are attracting people that are selling and using drugs in public places - and some folks that are physically abusing women - it is time for a change of strategy. They are getting too much 'bad' press instead of 'good' press which would help move their agenda forward.

Just my opinion.

[Name removed]

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[Kennah]

2. I disagree, but the courts will get to decide ...

... and the SCOTUS will get the last guess.

I think if the occupation itself is the speech, and to me it clearly is, then the occupation is protected First Amendment speech and Assembly. Yes, it's true that all rights have limits, and the courts constantly balance them. However, the B.S. argument of "we have to clean the park" doesn't wash--no pun intended. They could ask to clean the park then allow people back in. Or clean parts at a time so the Occupation could "rotate" through the park.

[Tx4obama]

5. Regarding Zucotti park - is not a public park, it is privately owned.

There are laws that protect the rights of owners of private property.

And YES they do need to clean the areas that people have been camped out in. Considering that there are not bathrooms out there I'm sure that it's getting a bit nasty.

[Name removed]

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[Sherman A1]

3. Agreed & Well Said

It is time to change the tactics of the movement to adjust to the tactical changes on the ground. I do believe that the press will spin this anyway that they are told to spin it and any attempt to use or rely upon the media is doomed to fail.

There are always "work arounds" to be found, some of those are through twitter & facebook, some are the voting booth, some are such things as letters to the editors of local media, some are perhaps boycotts and some are as you say marches and alike.

The parks can be moved to a virtual link up for many things with public displays being changed to fit the situation.

[Name removed]

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[Sherman A1]

8. So the only opinion

is Yours?

[tcaudilllg]

12. Well, those who believe in random, chaotic change

are a little dumber than those who ask what the basic principles of the world are. So yeah, maybe you should listen a little more closely to us, IF you want to do democracy right.

Not maybe... DEFINITELY.

[Sherman A1]

14. It appears that someone is missing the point

but, you are on a roll so enjoy yourself.

The discussion was of tactics of the movement which will indeed, not only change (as change is the only constant in life), but need to change to adjust to the situation(s) on the ground.


Your calling people names for their opinions is not terribly helpful and divisive to people who do indeed care and are offering alternative ideas to continue the movement.

Protest can and does take many forms, the current encampment style is simply one of those.

[tcaudilllg]

16. You don't have the will.

[Sherman A1]

18. Believe as you will

and we will see just how this movement changes, as all do through time.

And please put me on your ignore list as quick as your fingers can glide across the keyboard.

[WilliamPitt]

33. Neither does the OWS founder

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/15/occupy-movement-could-declare-victory-and-scale-back-camps-founder-suggests/

Nice vitriol, tho. You'll fit right in around here.

(facepalm)

[Tunkamerica]

27. you're right! the only way to change things is by virtual facebook sit-ins and boycotting twitter

[Sherman A1]

35. ...........

:banghead:

That was not what I said and you are very well aware it was not.

[Fire Walk With Me]

4. Flash mob protests, sit-ins, GENERAL STRIKES!

[napoleon_in_rags]

7. The tactics will change, but what we are talking about is shanty towns.

Just like in the Great Depression:

An economic system has concentrated so much wealth in the hands of so few that people have no where to live. Many of the protesters around here are homeless, and the situation is only getting worse. You can't make this go away, you can't make people homeless people just "give it up" and go home, because there is no home. The only way to make the occupy movement go away is with a great outreach of charity and compassion from those who have, but I just don't think America is there spiritually. This thing is going to grow.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Yup

other day lady... "You've made your point, go home."

Occupier... "I'm homeless"

[tcaudilllg]

11. No.

That's not where we are headed.

[napoleon_in_rags]

19. I don't know if you're expressing optimistic resolve or denial.

Not enough words there. If its optimism, then I tip my hat and say yes, America has changed rapidly in the past and could again. We can do it. If its denial, if you think the status quo is going to create results any different than what it has been creating, what I have described, you've got another thing coming. We need to learn to be a great nation that values people again, and that we have not been.

[tcaudilllg]

20. Not everyone has value. Some people are ruled by violent impulse, lust for power.

Those we can do without.

[napoleon_in_rags]

23. Unfortunately, there is a lot of talk of "those we can do without".

Check this thread out, it documents an increase in production with increase in unemployment. As robotic mass production technology develops, this trend is projected to become more pronounced: newly unemployed as useless human trash the machine owners wish they could just get rid of. I'm saying that the purpose of a nation is to benefit the all the people in that nation. Unity is important.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=816394&mesg_id=816394

[Denzil_DC]

24. "Not everyone has value. Some people are ruled by violent impulse, lust for power."

You earlier:

"You got your wish.

Now you will pay the price. Get out of here. More than that... SHOOT YOURSELF. History hates you and needs that you die, you demonic, irredeemable bastard."

You sound a little fascistic yourself.

[JDPriestly]

13. Well, OWS has some test cases about the extent of the First Amendment

which was, I think, part of the point.

But I think that what you are suggesting will happen, and I think that when it does happen, the OWS will add a lot of supporters such as senior citizens who need to protest the changes that are being planned for Social Security and Medicare as well as SSI recipients, Food Stamp recipients, etc.

Bloomberg really missed his chance to be a hero.

He could have handled the whole thing quite differently.

Anyway, with regard to the First Amendment, I expect the courts to continue to rule in favor of the time, place, and manner restrictions of First Amendment rights.

That will give us all the chance to come back at Congress and demand that they place time, place and manner restrictions on the use of free speech by the corporations. Such as, the any person who funds in any way or underwrites or organizes or participates in the making of any kind of advertisement, whether political or not, must acknowledge their identity and the extent of their participation in the speech at issue so that voters can judge for themselves the value and motivation for the ad.

This kind of provision would not inhibit free speech any more than the kinds of municipal ordinances that encumber free association and free speech such as OWS.

Now, the actual political side of OWS will begin to take form. Hopefully, the movement will continue to be as democratic and positive as it has been heretofore.

People can return to the original locations of the encampments and hold GAs frequently if not daily until we get our country back or find a new way to organize. The movement will become bigger and more inclusive.

[Sherman A1]

15. Precisely

Well said.....:toast:

[Name removed]

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[Tunkamerica]

28. where did that come from? what specifically do you take offense to in that statement?

[Name removed]

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[Adenoid_Hynkel]

21. the adbusters guy is suggesting similar

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/15/occupy-movement-could-declare-victory-and-scale-back-camps-founder-suggests/

[Tx4obama]

22. Thanks for the link. n/t

[lunatica]

25. It looks like you're happy to give them more bad press

But you're entitled to your opinion. Just don't pretend you're helping them out by trashing them.

[SpiralHawk]

26. Flash Occupy

Gonna be the next thing. Some say.

[backscatter712]

29. General strike, or at least massive non-violent commercial disruption on Black Friday. nt

[DCBob]

31. The bigger problem is that most people dont even understand what all the fuss is about.

The issue being protested is not clear. Most just see this as a protest against Wall Street and banks which for most people doesnt make sense since most everyone owns some stocks (401ks) and has a bank account. Furthermore many feel this could negatively impact them personally. There needs to be better messaging to take this to the next level.

[Javaman]

32. I believe the current tactic used by OWS is working perfectly fine...

if it weren't the cops wouldn't be pissed off, the mayor of nyc wouldn't be pissed off, the corporate overlords wouldn't be pissed off and the repukes wouldn't be pissed off.

the fine art of protest and occupy is to wake up the people and put the issue of the problems of our nation square in the citizens lap.

I love it when people claim that protesting never works. Those types of folks usually think that the protesters need to act violent to get their message across. Quite the opposite, protests, when done correctly like the OWS, is about persistence, Patience and non-violent resistant.

Think of the OWS protests as a virus. A quiet deliberate virus. You can take all sorts of meds to get rid of it, but it just won't go away. That's the power of the people. Not to go away. To keep on message and to enlighten.

The pen, or internet in this case, (the most effective weapon in the OWS arsenal) is mightier than the sword. the powers that be know this and it pisses them off. Why do you think they shut off all the feeds to Zuccoti Park before the raid?

Yet people still took pics and posted them within minutes of the raid.

No one can stop this.

[Name removed]

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