Confession: I don't understand Whole Foods.

[Atman]

There are lots of places to buy local produce and organic this-and-that. I live in Connecticut farm country, and we do the farmer's markets on the weekends and there are roadside stands selling veggies grown right on the premises. In addition, there are many home-farms nearby that sell organic, grass-fed meats from a small stock of cattle, and cheeses from local cows.

So anyway, what brought this on...I finally had a weekend off politics and went to Whole Foods with my wife, stocking up before the big October Snow Storm. She loves the place. It is nearby her office, and she likes to shop on her way home. So, it's mayhem because of the impending snowstorm, but that really isn't the issue...we wound up with four bags of groceries -- all of our own bags, of course -- and it cost us almost $250. $250 for four fucking bags of groceries! I don't think anything I picked up cost less than $3.99! How the hell is Whole Foods any less of a massive corporate entity than Stop and Shop or Albertson's or whomever the international corporate conglomerate is in you area? At least here in CT I have Big Y, locally-owned chain. I know the D'Amour family that owns them. The store is awesome, and buys almost everything from local sources, wherever possible. And I know my money is staying local, not going to Royal Dutch Ahold (the Dutch, for some reason, own most of the U.S. supermarkets). But Whole Foods? I don't get it. $250 for four bags of groceries. Is this a grocery store, or a cult?

.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. A Whole Foods will be opening here. I will buy there only what I can't get elsewhere nt

[ellisonz]

2. Whole Paycheck

:)

[SteveM]

31. In Austin (where 1st one opened) we called it Whole Floods...

due to it being flooded in the 1981 rains.

[Laluchacontinua]

3. Do you have a reference for that Dutch own most supermarkets? Thanks.

[Atman]

8. The google is your friend.

Royal Dutch Ahold owns most of the supermarkets in America.

.

[Laluchacontinua]

12. I thought when someone made a claim like "most" it was polite to provide some reference for it

rather than tell people to look it up themselves.

Here's what I find at wikipedia:

Supermarket News ranked Ahold's U.S. division No. 7 in the 2007 "Top 75 North American Food Retailers" based on 2006 fiscal year estimated sales of $24.0 billion.<4>

And here's that list from supermarket news for 2011:

1. Wal-Mart Stores
2. Kroger Co.
3. Costco Wholesale Corp.
4. Safeway
5. Supervalu
6. Loblaw Cos.
7. Publix Super Markets
8. Ahold USA
9. C&S Wholesale Grocers
10. Delhaize America

http://supermarketnews.com/profiles/top75/2011/


And here's the top 10 world-wide:

SN’s Top 25 Worldwide Food Retailers for 2011

Read more: http://supermarketnews.com/profiles/top25-2011/top-25-2011/#ixzz1cgHrr8wV


1. Wal-Mart Stores
2. Carrefour
3. Metro Group
4. Tesco
5. Schwarz Group
6. Kroger Co.
7. Costco Wholesale Corp.
8. Rewe Group
9. Aldi
10. Target Corp.


Walmart wins again. And the biggest ORGANIC food retailer? Yep, Walmart.

http://organic.about.com/od/marketingpromotion/tp/Top-5-Largest-Organic-Retailers-In-North-America-2010.htm

[Atman]

17. Anyone who buy groceries at Wal Mart is just insane.

My colleague in the office next to me does all his grocery shopping at Wal Mart. We've explained to him, over and over, the problem with this...the poor sourcing, the economic impact, the mysterious Chinese products, etc, etc, etc...it always comes back to "Yeah, but it's really cheap!" Some people just don't look past their wallets. Ahold is huge, but maybe I was wrong in saying "most of." Wal Mart always controls everything. Publix controls the south. C&S is the distributor for virtually every market up here in the northeast. Ahold still is a massive, major player.

.

[Laluchacontinua]

20. Be that as it may, they're far & away the biggest retailer in every category.

Ahold is far down the list.

[Spider Jerusalem]

27. Which is somehow worse than buying South American tomatoes out of season somewhere else?

Or buying mysterious Chinese products from, say...Target? Or any of a dozen other major retailers?

Personally I can't really blame people not wanting to buy groceries at Wal-Mart, but at the same time I can understand people "not looking past their wallets". Freedom of choice in where to buy one's groceries is a luxury for a lot of people. (I consider myself fortunate in living somewhere where I have the option of an independent butcher, greengrocer and baker in addition to chain supermarkets; this is something that's pretty much nonexistent in most of the US outside a few major cities).

[Pigheaded]

38. Local WalMart here buys everything inseason within 200 miles

Everything else comes from worldwide.

Same as every other store

PH

[Pigheaded]

39. What is your deal??

Facts prove AHold is minor!

PH

[emilyg]

44. I'm not insane. I

shop Wal-Mart to stretch my social security.

[Exilednight]

50. No, you're not insane. You're just a victim of a company who will cut throat their way to

the top and abolish any competition.

I never fault anyone for shopping at Wal-Mart. I do fault politicians for letting them in to their communities.

[TheWraith]

13. They used to own a lot, but they've liquidated some of their brands.

They used to own Tops, but they sold that one off as well as a few others.

[Pigheaded]

15. Not even close

Please post facts.

PH

[Atman]

19. What's your idea of "close?"

#8 on the list seems pretty close to me. Please post opposing facts if you disagree with what I posted.

.

[Laluchacontinua]

22. Ahold's total revenue's were $29 Billion in 2010. Safeway's were $41 billion,

Kroger's were $77 billion, and Walmart's were $421 billion.

You claimed that Ahold owned "most" supermarkets in the us.

They don't, best just admit it.

I've never even heard of their supermarkets.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FarCenter]

14. Royal Ahold owns Stop&Shop, Giant, Martin's, and Peapod

Aldi's and Trader Joes are owned by Germans. Tengleman's owns a share of A&P, but probably wishes that they didn't.

[Cal Carpenter]

4. "How the hell is Whole Foods any less of a massive corporate entity than..."

It's not. In fact, it is run by an anti-union libertarian. It has swallowed up many independent stores and small chains that may have had some integrity at one time.

It's just marketing.

Just another corporation.

[MedicalAdmin]

28. Whole Foods is the hipster doofus version of Walmart groceries.

I don't shop there unless I absolutely have to (when I travel I like to shop for organic or local if possible and sometime, due to schedule and access Whole Paycheck is it).

And a lot of their shit is kinda shitty.

[snooper2]

5. What gets me is they still try to sell you half a sandwich

Walk by the deli area and they'll have these half po-boys and shit...


I thought the name of the place was "Whole" Foods? Not, "Whole and some Halfs of Food" :)

[Warren DeMontague]

6. you know the deal, with them little shopping carts they got..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UFc1pr2yUU

[rsmith6621]

7. It's How I Feel About Green Products

...In this economy as much as I support the cause the budget says otherwise. Yes they are SQUEEZING your pocketbook.

[Laluchacontinua]

18. Walmart is the biggest retailer of organic foods. And Whole Paycheck sources from China.

Since that is the case, I say it's just another status scam for the upscale.

[Atman]

21. "Organic" means nothing in the United States anymore. Not since Bush.

Bush's FDA gutted the term "organic." Most of the big "organic" brands now are just other big agri-businesses masquerading as wholesome. Cascadian Farms, for example, is just General Mills. The big producers were smart and bought up many of the smaller brands. Under Bush, they changed the definition of organic. Now, a producer only has to show "good faith effort" in organic sourcing, and if they are unable to find the organic ingredients they need, they can "temporarily" use non-organic ingredients to fill out their production schedules. It's total bullshit.

.

[Cal Carpenter]

23. To be fair

The watering down of the standards happened as soon as the fed gov't started the USDA standards for NOP in 1997 or 1998 (I'm going by memory). I was working at an organic farm at the time and our head farmer went to Washington more than once to fight to keep the regulations tighter but the rules that got passed were already pretty weak.

As with many things, those standards weren't created with the intention of protecting consumers, but rather so large industry could get their hands on the profits waiting to be made from organic food as popularity grew.

Of course it's even worse since then.

[MedicalAdmin]

29. It is bullshit and it is hurting the small farms that built organic...

While we don't steer folks away from organic, we also point out that biodynamic and fair trade are also part of the equation.

[Tumbulu]

45. You are really wrong about this

I am an organic farmer and have been one since 1990. I am also a handler of organic products. The paperwork is hell. The requirements are even harder nowadays than they used to be. We not only have to prove that we farm organically, but we have to have habitat restoration projects on our farms and prove that we are improving our soil every year and although I agree with these things and have restoration projects (native plant and animal), I find that it is becoming so very hard to fulfill the requirements and the inspectors are more like policemen.....I feel a bit discouraged by it all. And I am an organic fanatic- began in 1976, no less.

This mantra that the organic standards have been watered down must be a meme planted by the conventional industry which reports nothing. I keep thinking that the answer is to make the conventional crop producers list all the additives- ie pesticides that they use and see how soon people stop buying their cheap but really not safe in my opinion products.

[Atman]

48. I'm not an expert on this, but I think it's different for smaller farmers.

I defer to your first-hand knowledge, of course, but I do recall that the corporate food biz -- probably those further up the production chain as opposed to the actual farmers -- sought and received significantly laxed standards as to what they could sell as "organic." Again, I'm talking about packaged goods sold in the big grocery stores, not from the source.

[HockeyMom]

9. I bought local seafood there up North

when I couldn't get to a fish market. Supermarket seafood is gross! We had lunch there buying help yourself homemade soups and bread. Actually, I was like a kid in a candy store, trying to decide what I could eat for lunch. LOVED all the choices.

[Denninmi]

10. Yes, very overpriced.

There is one a few blocks from where I work, otherwise I wouldn't go there.

I only pick up the unusual items I can't find elsewhere, or things on sale.

Otherwise, forget it.

[NRaleighLiberal]

11. It is what it is - we just had one open....fun to walk through, but we buy very little -

it is THE local place for good quality fish (not inexpensive, but impeccably fresh). That's it for us. Good cheese samples, too!

[frazzled]

16. You have to shop carefully at Whole Foods

I have other sources for fresh produce that are a lot cheaper, so in general I don't buy my produce there (unless it's more practical not to go toddling all over town just for a bunch of spinach), or if they are running a special.

What I do buy there, mostly, are:

(1) bulk spices, nuts, etc. because they are a fraction of the price of buying a jar anywhere else. If you are making, say, some involved Moroccan tagine that calls for a bunch of different spices, you can just get the two tablespoons of this and a teaspoon of that that you need (and you'll actually find those cardamom pods). You won't have to buy six jars (at $7 apiece) that will just sit in your spice drawer for a year until you next need to use them.

(2) meat. Sorry, but unless it's at a butcher, I don't buy meat at a regular supermarket. I do have another source for reliable meat, but it's not open evenings or Sundays, so I often go to WF just for this. I happen to have a fish wholesaler right near my house, so I can walk there and get amazing (cheap) fish.

(3) 360 products: the in-house brands of canned tomatoes, pasta, etc. are quite reasonable and always of a high quality.

(4) things on special. There are often good buys to be had with weekly specials. If something strikes me (say, the mahi mahi is being pushed at a good price this week), I'll whip out the Epicurious app on the smart phone, find a recipe to go with it, and pick up the other things needed to make it into a meal.

(5) if you're having a dinner party and need exotic ingredients: it's one stop shopping, and you swallow your pride about price and just go for it sometimes to save time and aggravation, because you will generally find everything needed. I could spend five hours going to three or four different stores to pick up things (and I do that with some frequency), or I could just say the hell with it and pay more for two lemons than my little green grocer charges, but be done with it.

Anyway, we tend to divide our shopping: specific items at the local Jewel supermarket, things like frozen veggies and odd tidbits at Trader Joes, coffee in bulk at Costco, meats and assorted things at WF, and then my stash of local purveyors: the greengrocer, the fishmonger, the fabulous old Italian cheese guy.

[wryter2000]

37. I buy beef at Costco

Very good quality. There's a Whole Paycheck near my church. I was supposed to go there tonight, but the windows got smashed by the "bloc heads" yesterday. That would have been the first time I've set foot in the place.

[BuddhaGirl]

41. "360 products: the in-house brands of canned tomatoes, pasta, etc. are quite reasonable and always o

That's "365" actually.

I have tried many of their "365" products out of necessity after they discontinued name brands that I had bought and liked for years.

The "365" replacements tasted like crap and were of inferior quality!

I'm sick of them replacing good, name brand products. They even make their "365" packaging to look like the name brand! :mad:

[flamingdem]

42. Agree. A plus is free samples - just ask - and you can return anything nt

[Zorra]

24. It's a scam by republicans to rip off unsuspecting liberals with money. nt

[Kahuna]

25. Shoprite is good enough for me. I love Shoprite. nt

[demosincebirth]

30. First of all, it's vehemently anti-union.

[kestrel91316]

32. I LOVE Whole Foods but can't afford to buy much there with the economy

all shot to sh-t, lol. They have great produce variety, some stuff I can ONLY get there. But I only shop the perimeter and the chocolate aisle. Processed foods there are OUT OF SIGHT.

[cyglet]

33. I don't get it

when we have a very good co-op less than a mile away (with 2 locations if you don't want to go up the hill!). Hmmm, give money to a huge corporate conglomerate or a local shop that you own a stake in....

[SteveM]

34. You should see Chairman Mackey's views on unions....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mackey_%28businessman%29

He supposedly treat animals well, however.:eyes:

[JVS]

35. I don't shop there, but if you've ever shopped for just organic or just kosher food items...

then you must be familiar with what it's like and how Whole Foods changes that. In those cases, you get at best a corner of the store or a shelf with the possible items and at worst you have to hunt down every item you're looking for. Going into a 20,000 square foot supermarket to shop from 2 shelves kind of defeats the purpose of a supermarket, and hunting through the supermarket for an acceptable version of every product sucks ass, and that assumes it's even possible. The meat department may be a very take it or leave it affair.

I've seen Kosher supermarkets and I've seen Whole Foods. The idea is that you can go in and they'll have everything you need and you can buy everything you see. It takes a lot of the work out of shopping.

[customerserviceguy]

36. About the only thing I buy there is beer

and the occasional bottle of sale wine. They usually have the best microbrew selections out there, and that even happens out in the Pacific Northwest, which is beervana. I find rare micros when I go back to WA state for a visit.

As for everything else, I have a great local produce market, but I'll maybe pick up one extra thing while I'm beer shopping, but usually not. Their meats are horribly expensive, and I really don't give a damn about the purported differences between their butcher shop and my local Stop N Shop.

[elehhhhna]

40. they have good cheeses

morbier. mmmmmmmmmmm.

[Stinky The Clown]

43. Just another big bidniss. Absolutley nothing special.

[opiate69]

46. You're in Ct.? Stew Leonard's is your best bet...

We used to go there every month when I was a kid, when my parents did their monthly big-stock grocery shopping. Mind you. it's been probably at least 30 years since I've been there but as far as I know their standards and prices have been well kept.

[Atman]

47. I can't stand Stew Leonard's

They opened one in Newington a few years ago. We shopped there a fee times, but it was shopping at a carnival. Animatronic singing animals everywhere, the aisles deliberately set up like mazes...just not for me. You can do okay at Big Y if you shop carefully, and augment it with stops at roadside stands and farmers markets. Plus, were fortunate to have a really good fish monger near us who sources most of seafood locally and labels everything so you know where it came from, line caught, wild, farmed, etc.

[bklyncowgirl]

49. The idea of Whole Foods (Whole Paycheck) is to make the chore of food shopping both fun & virtuous

The marketing in that place is amazing. You feel like you're going through a marketplace. Ah the thrill of discovery! Oh look, super duper gourmet speggetti sauce on sale for a mere $5.00--it says so on that seemingly hand lettered sign. You buy it even though in your heart you know you can get Ragu down at Pathmark for half the price. Now all supermarkets are designed to make you pick up that impulse purchase that you hadn't planned on but Whole Foods goes another step by making you feel that youre doing something really, really, good for you health by buying that box of gluten free pasta for $4.00 even though the Shoprite down the road sells the same box of gluten free pasta for $2.50. Other chains, Wegmans and Trader Joes are good examples of stores which use great marketing, but they do not make any particular health claims and do not get that big markup.

Contrast that with "value" chains which make a virtue of cheapness--the big membership stores like Costco or my favorite cheapo food chain, Aldi. Aldi is not designed for fun. It starts before you go in the door. You have to pay a quarter deposit for a shopping cart--they have big signs on the door telling you how this saves you money--but it does require some planning--arriving at Aldi without a quarter can be a pain. Food is displayed in the boxes it was shipped in. It ain't pretty but it is cheap--and usually good. Bags, that'll cost you. Where Aldi hits you is their "Surprise" section--I once went in there to get a bag of potatoes and came out with a hammock stand--it was a great deal!

None of this stuff is accidental. These stores know how to get you to loosen your wallet.

[queenjane]

51. WF is like any other store--you pick and choose

I'm a vegan, and many of the things I buy there (tofu, vegan mayo, rice & almond milk) are cheaper than anywhere else. They have great store brands, offer coupons on their website, and have sales. I certainly don't do all my shopping there (I also buy from Costco, Kroger, Food Lion, Petsmart and even evil, evil Walmart).

One thing our local WF offers is locally grown organic produce, and it's usually cheaper than the regular groceries.

[justiceischeap]

52. The only thing I buy at WF is vegan "meats"

Tofurky sandwich slices, Field Roast apple sage sausage, Gardein chicken patties and beef cubes. They carry them aplenty and, even if my local grocer carries them, they are often CHEAPER at Whole Foods. I also like their artisan breads. That said, I would never go "grocery shopping" at any one store. I go to where the best deals for what I need are, buy a whole bunch at once and usually don't have to go again, unless it's for fresh produce, for a month or so. My usual bill for that kind of shopping reaches your one-time trip to WF.