It's so easy to topple the 1%

[chillspike]

Just stop giving them our energy in the form of work.

Stop working for them.

Go self sufficient.

We work for these assholes to feed ourselves.

What if instead we grew a garden, raised chickens rooted our efforts and energy in getting our needs more directly from the Earth instead of some Overlord we've voluntarily give power to?

Take away their power.

A good book about people who do this on a limited scale is "A Different Kind of Luxury" by Andy Couterier.

I myself am working mightily toward building such a life free of wage slavery. Once I secure some land I won't take out loans to build on it. I'll build what I can with whatever energy or money I already have so I won't need to sell myself out totally to the 1% to pay for it all. I'll only need worry about food and taxes, basically. If I must work here and there to get something I need, it will only be just long enough to earn enough to get what I need and that's it. The idea is to limit your recurring bills so that will limit the length and number of times you'll need to work for others for money.

I realize not everyone can do this but if more people did, without our labor, the weaker the 1% would become.

[dkf]

1. You still have to pay taxes.

And if the financial system collapses, we will all be going your direction.

[Fumesucker]

5. Forty seven percent of Americans don't pay taxes..

:evilgrin:

;)

[dkf]

7. Property tax. Can't escape that one.

[dixiegrrrrl]

9. Yes you can.

Some states have homestead exemptions.
Anyone in a low income bracket
or over 65
or disabled
or blind
pays NO property tax in Ala and few other states.

The only tax we pay, being retired, is the retail sales tax on what we buy in Alabama.
A lot of what we buy is online, if at all possible.

[dkf]

12. No kidding. Didn't know that.

[KittyWampus]

17. So how's the standard of living in Alabama? In states where there's low property taxes overall

there's a shitload of other "fees" for everything else to cover it. Which is regressive.

[dixiegrrrrl]

24. Our very rural county has high retail taxes.

Because we are 90 miles from any city, so cost of driving to lower prices would be about equal to paying the taxes here.
I saved money shopping in the city when I drove to work there, but now, with price of gas, and being retired, there is no significant money savings unless I fill the car to the brim while shopping in the city. And that is a whole day trip back and forth.

Ala also has income tax.No problem for most retirees.

[rdking647]

41. not true..

thats a right wing lie

[ehrnst]

48. It's a lie of omission, and a lie of phraseology

It's true that 45% don't pay federal income tax - but that's because they don't make enough money.

85% pay some sort of federal taxes in the form of property, and payroll taxes. But the Right wing says that 45% don't pay any federal taxes.

They say that the top 2% pay the 21% of all Federal Income taxes - without also stating that the top 2% earn nearly 50% of all income...

That's the lie of omission

[meow2u3]

52. It's a lie designed to turn the people against the poor

Wingnuts always hated the poor, but have effectively covered it up behind code words and dog-whistle politics. Now that their lies about their hatred for the poor, sick, and defenseless has been laid bare, they have to make up a whole new pack of lies to justify coddling the rich criminals acting above the law.

[Fumesucker]

51. Note the evil grin and the wink after my statement that you responded to..

:hi:

[Jackpine Radical]

55. Dontcha hate it

when this happens?

[ehrnst]

57. I did, I just wanted to point out how they lie. (nt)

[ehrnst]

47. Yeah, just payroll taxes, gasoline taxes, sales taxes, tolls...

Just a measley 85% of Americans filing paid federal taxes of some sort.

[FBaggins]

2. Don't see how self-impoverishment hurts the rich as much as it does those who choose it.

It's like saying that you defeat the mugger by punching yourself in the face and throwing away all of you belongings so there's nothing for him to take.

[HereSince1628]

11. I think that arithematic is struggled with in most strike votes

Sometimes the risks are seen as workable, sometimes they aren't.

[adigal]

26. It saves you money, and saves your soul

If you provide most of your needs for yourself, and you know you are not owned by banks or big corporations, you are free in a way most Americans never even think of. I am going to retire in 5 years. By that point, I will have fruit trees producing, a huge garden, chickens, dairy goats, fiber goats, a small mortgage and my car paid off. Our other cars are all paid for already. I will not be owned by banks, or pay $50 for a pair of jeans, when the local ministry gives them away, practically brand new, for free.

We are a wasteful, gluttonous society that cannot sustain itself unless many of us make drastic changes. I am willing to do so.

[TheWraith]

43. Newsflash: not everybody can grow a huge garden with chickens and goats.

Not everybody owns land. Not everybody can afford to own land. And it's ridiculous to push on people some grossly unrealistic belief that everyone can do that and simply toss away their jobs. It's based on a grossly over-romanticized image of some "pure" agrarian lifestyle, without remembering the corrolaries to that: the backbreaking labor, the lack of medical treatment, the complete lack of a safety net, etcetera.

[ehrnst]

58. If only everyone had access land and time to milk goats, grow fruit trees.

I understand that you would and could do this. It doesn't mean those that can't swing that simply don't want to.

I used to sew - then I had a child. I used to garden more, then work picked up. I would love to work less, and earn less, but we need the health insurance, and we need the regular income to live where we do.


(I do work at a non-profit, but it is funded by a foundation that invests 500 million (bequeathed by a philathropist).

[lunatica]

3. That can't work for everybody

I truly wish you success since this is a choice you've made. But your lifestyle could easily be considered a lifetime of slavery to many others. What about our scientists, and doctors, and educators? There are people who dedicate their lives to medical research and to building safer buildings and bridges and they need an education. Should they drop out and get their own little farm? Will that benefit humanity?

Having said that, I truly wish you luck because it's what you want to do.

[drm604]

4. There are a lot of people who can't just live off the land.

Some of us, for example, have medical issues that require modern technology and the means to pay for it.

And what about the people who can't afford their own little plot out in the country?

[tama]

6. Networks of communities

largely self-sufficient. Transition wont happen immediately, it's a long process and takes generations.

Redistribution of land is a key issue, together with learning sustainable production and way of life.

Now we need to get rid of this financial system that is harmful to our planet and enforces incredible waste and artificial scarcity.

[Skidmore]

21. Why not an expectation that there would be members of the tech community

who would gladly join in forming alternatives to the same old-same old? And what about those who don't have the means to pay for the same old-same old?

[elocs]

8. Evidently what is not so easy is to be in touch with reality. n/t

[TBF]

10. You're right that they need labor, but lately they've been finding that in Mexico and India -

I think we are in much better shape if we stick together and keep the pressure on. I understand the "I'm going off to live on a plot of land" - very similar to the "I've got mine so fuck the rest of you" meme ...

Not that you're completely wrong - it can be effective in some ways (as in buying used and that sort of thing - don't encourage their production). But still I think it will be the same thing, if we ignore them and don't buy anything they'll sell their crap in India and China.

Better to put the pressure on and take the MFers down. Nationalize all major industries ... go that route. Why should we live in the woods isolated from each other because they stole all our money via the stock market and bail-outs? Fuck them, I want that money back and redistributed fairly throughout the country. The IRS has the capability to do it in the form of taxes and rebate checks.

[redgiant]

13. Do the math

What kind of work do you do and what wage do you command that you consider yourself a wage slave?

What you are proposing makes sense only if the economic value your labor has to an employer is less than what the same amount of work can produce for yourself. The more skilled and valuable your labor, the less this makes sense.

How many hours a month does an average wage earner need to work to feed himself? How many hours would the same person have to work to feed himself living off the land? How much land is needed to feed one individual? How do you deal with bad weather, droughts, crop failures, etc?

How do the millions of lower wage city dwellers do this?

How do you provide health care and educational needs for your family? Will all the members of your family share your desire for a more bare-bones, live off the land lifestyle? This won't work as a hobby. It would have to be a full-time, dedicated effort. Crops and animals have to be tended to all the time. Do you take vacations? Well, you get the idea.

But, good luck with this. Keep us posted.

[HereSince1628]

29. Three comments...

What you are saying is true in an industrialized society in which a worker depends upon the resources of a workplace that aren't his/her own. This is one of the positive aspects about incorporation, money is pooled to provide the resources needed for a venture.

I am not sure that shifting to a foraging life-style is what the OP is about.

Strikes are a mechanism to do this on the short term. Strikes are sometimes met with lock-outs, lay-offs and blacklisting of persons who participate in them.

[bloomington-lib]

14. I think instead of being completely self-reliant, starting an alternative economy

would be the ultimate solution. I don't know what the "alternate economy" would look like or the details of how it would function, but it would keep our money circulating within the 99% and cut off the 1%. Perhaps it would produce more jobs and better working conditions also, but mainly cutting off the blood supply to the diseased limb/tumor.

It would probably be similar in what we do now with boycotts, but instead of not buying something, we produce an alternative.

Protesting and yelling is great for communication amongst the people, but yelling at the pigs won't move them to change. Their face is too buried in the trough to care.

[formercia]

15. The 'under the table' Economy has always been there

Local, State and Federal government aren't likely to give any support, since Tax Revenue is what keeps them in business. There are even tax regulations for people operating on a cash-only basis.
It reminds me of the refrain from the '60's: Tune-in, Turn-on, Drop-out. It's one of the things that helped to kill the Anti-War movement. People left the barricades to find Peace, Love and Happiness and left the Country to the Neo-Cons.

So, here we are back at square one again. I'm not trying to kill your idea, but I remember seeing what happened to the movement back then and how it was co-opted. We have to get it right this time or there might never be a next time if the crazies get their way.

[bloomington-lib]

20. I wasn't really meaning an underground economy.

Not something trying to to get away from paying taxes. The government will always get a portion of our money and we only have a say in how it gets spent by going through the political system.

I guess I was mainly talking about, instead of primarily consuming what you can provide for yourself like what the op I believe is suggesting,is to provide alternatives when there aren't any. We COULD start our own "banks" and lend in socially responsible ways. We COULD start energy, agriculture, and construction companies building and supplying in socially responsible ways. In many ways a lot of these alternatives already exist. Some of them go under, some get bought out by the 1%ers seeing a good way to make a buck, and some of them stay small, not allowing their ideas or goods to be accessed to to masses.

Like I said, some of these alternatives already exist. We need to collectively support the ones that do exist, and create the ones that don't. Collectively, we have an enormous amount of money, influence, and power. We need to use it.....and stop feeding the pigs.

How that gets done, I don't know. But unless we occupy the government, I don't see how anything will work for the 99ers. And even if occupying the government was possible, that's not a guarantee. The overthrows in South and Central America has taught us that.

[formercia]

23. Remember the co-ops?

That was a great idea. I used to get most of my staples from the local co-op when I was in school. I ate very inexpensively and got great organic foodstuffs. The only co-ops I see today are the ones that were bought-out, consolidated, gentrified and up-scaled. The co-ops were co-opted. Big money bought the idea and turned it into part of Big-business.

I agree with your idea, it's pretty well what I'm doing now. I grow what I can, eat in season, give my excess to others as they would do to me. It works. The supermarket gets my business, but I try to only buy what we need and stay away from the boutique products.
We support the local Farmers' Market and buy what we can there.

The minute you lose focus, the pigs will be figuring out a way to make a buck off of us.

[alc]

16. may have some affect on top 10% (lower end of top 10% only)

The truly wealthy don't care about the US if they want to become more wealthy. They gain wealth with market growth and that's not going to be happening in the US anywhere near the rate of many parts of the world (China, India, Turkey, Brazil, etc). Their money is already invested all over the world and even if the US government took everything the US can reach with international laws, they'd be pissed but not financially hurt in the long run.

Beside saving money on labor, moving jobs overseas gets businesses closer to BILLIONS of new customers (people who couldn't afford products a decade ago but many can now and most will be able to in 5-10 years). Businesses need to be near the customers, but more importantly near the distributors, retailers, marketers, and suppliers. Businesses who aren't the winners in the economies with BILLIONS of consumers will be bought out no matter how they do in an economy with less that 1/2 billion consumers (the US).

It's really a one-way battle to attack the top 1%, especially without understanding their objectives.


* You can't really categorize "top 1%". Income? Wealth? Salary? Cap gains? Many of the top 1% honestly care about their US employees and customers and in US-based investments. Some don't care about becoming richer - they're already set for retirement and want the company they started to remain "fair" to everyone. Many don't give a crap about anything except more money. Attacking them all the same doesn't help.

[KittyWampus]

18. Well, if every family that had a working couple had one of the two stop working- there'd be so many

jobs that salaries would rise over night.

[blindpig]

19. Most cannot do this

Withdrawing our labor is the right idea but it must be done in an organized manner. Besides that cessation of business is another threat they cannot abide, thus the general strike. But this will not work without organization and discipline and there is nothing like that yet on our horizon.

[pipi_k]

22. A couple of people made really good points above

and I agree.

Not everyone can, or will want to, do that. Of those who can't or don't want to, there will be many more than happy to take the job you abandoned.

Also...what happens when environmental factors deal your alternate lifestyle a serious blow? Your livestock get sick and die. A severe drought...hurricane...early frost...plant disease...one of these kills your crops.

What then?

Large farms with better technology have enough problems dealing with those things. How will you, with makeshift methods, be able to survive such a catastrophe?

Do you rely on your neighbor, who has to deal with the same things?

Or come running back to the Evil System for help?

As someone else in this thread said...if that's your choice, then good luck to you.

But aside from being a personal protest/ego stroking thing, I don't see where your choice is going to make much of a difference to the 1%, especially if not everyone is cut out to live such a life.

[adigal]

25. I am with you 100%!!!

I am going to plant a big garden, get chickens, I have stopped buying many things and buy nothing from China. My cell phone is 4 years old, I got a car with 40 mpg, and I watch no TV, hence, I have not flat screen TV. I am tired of doing what society says I have to do. I get my news from the internet, and try to keep greed and envy for what others have out of my life.

I don't need 1/10th of the things I thought I needed.

[chillspike]

40. Good for you, Adigal!

Glad to have you with me on this!

One tip: if you like your Internet like i also do, if you have the means, I suggest investing in an Amazon Kindle. I forget which model, but one of the versions comes with free 3G, meaning you basically get free Internet when there is a cell phone tower in your area. You can't watch videos or view images in color but you can check your email and browse and post on websites like DU. With a Gmail account I can even text to my family's cell phones on it. I have a portable solar panel that even charges it so I don't have to pay for the electricity it uses. I love it and plan to use it when I'm off grid.

[adigal]

44. Thanks, Chill, I will look into it

I went to homesteadingtoday.com and asked about living off of your own food, since someone on this thread mocked the idea, said it was impossible. I got dozens of responses from people who are mostly self-sufficient, as far as their good goes. Here is a sample of what they said:

Breakfast - homemade bread (bought the flour locally,) eggs from their own chickens, milk from own cow.

Lunch - salad, tomatoes, peppers spinach. Homemade veggie soup.

Dinner - Beef, goat, rabbit (yeah, I know, I am a vegetarian for a reason,) chicken or turkey on special occasions, their own veggies. Use honey from their own bees as a sweetener.

This diet is a thousand times more healthy than the supermarket diet. We have so much cancer, fibromyalgia, rheumotoid arthritis, Crohn's disease, etc. etc, does anyone think it might be because they can not put 20 times the Round-Up herbicide on genetically modified crops???

[Cannikin]

27. The opinion of a country dweller: You can't live off the land anymore.

The animal herds are thin. I rarely see a deer or other big game the way I used to. The water is ruined from farm run off and other pollution. I would not dare drink from a stream anymore. Real chickens are scrawny compared to the meat you are used to from the market. You'd need a very large amount of birds per person for meat.

We eat huge amounts of meats and grains over a years time. It would be quite a challenge to provide for yourself just because of the condition of the land. A backyard garden and a couple of chickens won't feed you all year.

[adigal]

28. I live in the country too

There are many, many deer here. Go to homestead.org or homesteadingtoday.com and see how many people are living off the land. You have to use compost, not chemicals like the big farmers do. Who says you have to eat meat? I am a vegetarian, and when my garden is big enough, I will can and freeze my food for the winter. Use rainwater run-off for your animals - in the northeast, we got more rain than we knew what to do with. My well is clean. I don't know where you live, but in the Adirondacks, we have regulations that protect the environment.

Naysayers are who keep us tied to the corporate-run world. It doesn't have to be that way.

[pipi_k]

31. So do I, and...

the land I live on is not suitable for growing much of anything besides the native plants (basically weeds).

The terrain is hilly. The soil is very rocky, and consists of mostly clay.

Then there's the micro-climate to deal with. It can stay very cool here into the first week or two of June. It's usually only warm enough to turn on the AC for about one week in mid August. Last few years it didn't even get that hot.

Plus, I have to point out, as someone who loves trees...in order for people to have farms large enough to support them, they're going to need large enough tracts of land. That means cutting trees. If enough people do that, our forests shrink.

If our forests shrink, it messes with the ecology. Something we, as responsible people, supposedly do NOT want to see happen.

People need to take off the blinders and start considering what might happen as a result of their "really neat" ideas...

[formercia]

50. One would need many acres of land to have a sustainable wood harvest.

Hereabouts, $300 a cord for cut, dried and split hardwood is the norm right now.

Dealing with the code inspector is something the pioneers didn't have to deal with.

Has anyone priced good farmland with a suitable woodlot lately? I bought mine 20 years ago in anticipation of what is happening today.

If I had to do it now, there would be no way I could afford it.

[chillspike]

42. Upstate NY is where I'm looking

But I was hesitant about the Adirondocks because it's too far from my family in NJ and i hear there are more liberals and progressives in the Catskill region.
It's good to know there's a fellow DUer in the Adirondocks, though. What is the political/cultural demographic like up there exactly? The pictures of property I've viewed from there are beautiful.

[white_wolf]

30. You want to really hurt the 1%?

We need a strike, a major strike. How long will the rich last when the food stops being delivered to stores, when the gas stops being shipped, when their power goes off. etc. They need us a lot more than we need them.

[pipi_k]

33. Oh hell yeah...

because poor people don't eat.

And they don't need gas for their cars to drive to their jobs.

And emergency vehicles don't need gas...and hospitals don't need electricity....


sigh...

:eyes:

[white_wolf]

36. I figured someone would say something like this.

We can still deliver the food, but deliver it to communities so they can eat, we can still power hospitals, but we can shut off the power for the 1%. My point is we don't need them, they need us. That is what you don't seem to understand.

[pipi_k]

37. So you would advocate

not only starving the 1%, but their innocent families (children!!!) as well?

And who is this "we" you speak of who are going to shut off their power and deny food delivery to them?

What, are hordes of people going to stand armed guard outside their homes or follow them around, making sure they don't "illegally" shop for food someplace?

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sufrommich]

32. How will you pay for electricity and heat? nt

[adigal]

38. We heat with wood, lots of people live off the grid

They use solar and wind for power. It can be done.

[Cannikin]

39. And if we all went off the grid, could the land sustain us?

[formercia]

46. How many cords of wood do you use per year?

[Zorra]

35. I have lived outside or on the fringe of the system all of my life.

My world has taken different forms as necessity has arisen. Changes have been opportunities, not obstacles.

It takes imagination, innovation, desire, and dedication. And luck, I guess.

I have been truly blessed, and am now a very happy and positive person and have had a wonderful life, in large part because I made the decision at 21 to not go to Law School, and to give as little of my energy to the Matrix as possible.

[moondust]

45. About 30 years for me.

Living outside or on the fringe, giving as little of my energy to the Matrix as possible.

Well put.

[Arugula Latte]

49. (Say in whiny Seinfeldish voice): But I don't wanna live in the country!

Rural folk tend not to be my peeps. Just saying.

[jimlup]

53. Damn straight! And we can some other stuff too...

We can start to form alternative infrastructure. We can support each other and not the 1% by buying food from our coop and not "Whole Foods". We need to start learning gardening and food storage from each other. We need to learn to start helping each other and doing trading "off the grid". We need to live outside of the "economy" as much as possible.

It may seem like just a good idea now but if it goes "all fall down" then it won't be "just a good idea" anymore - it will be how we survive!

[DirkGently]

54. Local energy independence & even limited food production would take a bite.

I think you're on to a huge point and some of the replies are missing the forest for the trees. People can take bites out of these economic power structures without trying to drop out all at once and farm or what have you.

What if a few communities pitched in for solar, and cut their corporate electricity consumption? A few hundred? A few thousand?

What if people cut their purchase of processed food and agri-corp meat and produce by 10%? 30%? 50%?

What if people removed 10% of their funds from megabanks and the big financial entities? Half? Three-quarters?

They do need us more than we need them. It's a huge, quiet lie supporting the "wealth creators" who cluck that they carry the country on their backs.

It's we, carrying them. We could set a few of them down.

Could be interesting.

Very nice post.

[bhikkhu]

56. Stop buying the products of large corporations

That's easier, and as effective. Much of the income of the 1% comes directly from corporate profits. Stop buying their stuff and the party ends.

Its also a more positive way, as you don't have to renounce your own role in society, just redefine it. If you work for them, fine, keep taking the wages, but don't give them back. Instead, shop locally, only buy used, or only buy from locally owned stores that you know.