A message to our overlords: "You may have the badges, guns and pepper spray.

[rhett o rick]

You may beat us, spray us and even shoot us, but you wont defeat us. You need us and we wont be your slaves."

Send this message to your congress-critters and local newspapers.

[MADem]

1. The Fat Cats, Wall Street bankers, and corporate big wigs thank you!!

You're doing a great job making THE POLICE, who are charged with keeping the citizens of NYC safe, able to use their streets, and free from property damage and violence, the enemy.

You're making this about cops, instead of about corporate corruption.

Those corporate hucksters, they're lighting up cigars and laughing all the way to the bank!!!

Heckuvajob!

[rhett o rick]

2. My message is to the overlords not the police. I said to send this to your

congress-critters. The over-lords own the police. I have no fight with the police if they are decent.

[frazzled]

4. How come no one blames Bloomberg?

He's in charge in that town. I'm just curious. Why does he get off the hook? We blamed Daley when the cops beat up people in Chicago in 1968 (and if the Chicago PD were beating protesters right now, you know there would be howls about Emanuel).

On the other hand, you go to these things to get arrested. Or at least they are planned to get the maximum attention by breaking ordinances or laws to achieve civil disobedience. So arrests don't really amount to police brutality to me. Pepper spray by a rogue cop isn't exactly Chicago in 68 or Syria today.

[rhett o rick]

27. Sorry, I missed your point. nm

[MADem]

5. Whatever. The more you carp about beat cops protecting the citizens of their city,

the further away you stray from the message of corporate corruption and the unholy alliance between Wall Street and government.

You think congresscritters who get big money from those Wall Street types give a crap if you or anyone else happens to be annoyed? They're probably happy as hell, too, that you are making "badges, guns and pepper spray" the focus, instead of keeping the heat on usurious interest rates, asinine banking fees for everyone but the rich, unfair tax codes, mortgages that are out of wack, manipulation of the housing and stock markets...need I go on?

The more people talk about Bad Cops, Free Mumia, Bradley Manning, End Capitalism Now, and other tangential topics, the less the real issues of SICK MONEY are addressed.

If they didn't plan for people to be fed material that would cause them to react like you are doing now, they've got to be THRILLED. If they did plan it, they have to be SATISFIED.

[Occulus]

14. "beat cops protecting the citizens of their city

Like Officer Pepperspray?

[MADem]

15. Shows how much you know. But then, disinformation includes deliberate errors of fact.

Officer Pepperspray was not a "beat cop."

He was a supervisory police officer.

See--they wear the white shirts. The beat cops wear the blue shirts.

Nice try.

Toss a few more insults, whydoncha?

[rhett o rick]

3. Why are you attacking me? Whose side are you on?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2031990&mesg_id=2032350

[Name removed]

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[MADem]

7. I'm on the side of people who want a fair shake in this nation, not on the side

of people who--intentionally or otherwise--are aiding and abetting those "overlords" you talk about by using exhortative rhetoric that decisively distracts from the goal of ending corporate corruption.

On the one hand, you say you want to show the police some love. On the other, you're carping about badges and guns and pepper spray.

This is not about the police. It's about Wall Street.


If you want to exhort, exhort people to stay on the sidewalk. Exhort the organizers of this show to get permits. Exhort the protesters to stay on topic and protest against WALL STREET, not Troy Davis or Choice or the big bad NYC police, or any of the two dozen "diluters" that make this effort seem horribly haphazard.

YMMV, and likely does.

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[socialist_n_TN]

17. Yes, exhort everybody to play by the rules

because the rules are SO fair to the rest of us. :sarcasm:

In the dictatorship of capital, if it benefits the working class to the detriment of the exploiting class IT WILL BE ILLEGAL! That's the way is IS and that the way it's ALWAYS been.

And if the police want to be let off the hook, they they'll REFUSE the orders of the overlords. Or are they "just following orders"? Seems like another group tried that defense.

[MADem]

18. Oh, come off it. Telling everyone RADIOHEAD was going to show up

to get a big crowd to the park is just such a cool way of not playing by the rules!

This effort is badly organized. That's really what is wrong. They finally have a spokeman or two, and those guys can't get their shit together, either.

People who live in NYC have a right to be able to use the streets without being swarmed with no notice. That's what permits do--they allow the police to reroute people and traffic.

The police are not the enemy here. Stop trying to make them so.

You're another one doing a great job of shifting the purpose of the protest from Wall Street corruption to a general "Fuck authority" waste of time. You couldn't do a better job if you were taking a paycheck for your efforts from Bank of America.

[tama]

19. Please calm down

Your hostile tone is not helpfull.

Many people on DU have issue with Occupy/Indignados movement being a leaderless self-organizing movement, anarchic movement, and that's OK. But anarchic tactics and strategy are working and working better than centralist organizing into hierarchic structures, because they are open and inclusive and empowering. Centralist organizations are most wellcome to participate and they are joining - unions etc. - and that is happening because this is inclusive anarchic movement open to all. I have plenty of experience from centralist organisations organizing protests, the constant battles of whose sandbox the demonstration is, which centralist organization can play with which organization etc. etc. etc... very frustrating and ineffective.

[MADem]

25. I am quite calm and not at all hostile. If you don't like my POV, you

just might get hot under the collar, yourself, but please, don't try to project your ire and discomfiture upon me.

I do not insist that people agree with me, simply that they be factual in their exchanges, and back up what they assert when evidence is plainly available. I don't think that is too much to ask.

[socialist_n_TN]

21. If I alerted on posts.........

this one would be one that I alert on. And I've NEVER done that, but I'm sorely tempted. You just accused me personally of being a hireling of the capitalist power structure and I'm a card carrying communist. That's PAST insult to me.

I've got WELL over a thousand posts and you're welcome to read any of them. Anyone who bothers to do so will KNOW that I am and always HAVE been a STAUNCH anti-capitalist.

Who's the one in this thread whose taking the side of the exploiters? Hint: it ain't me.

[MADem]

24. You apparently are unclear on the use of the conditional tense?

If--see that word "if"--I were accusing you, I wouldn't have used that word.

Go back and read what I actually wrote. Slowly. I maintain that your actions, well meaning though they might be, have an adverse effect. That's not an accusation, it's an OPINION. There's a difference.

Your reading comprehension is poor. Not only did you not understand that bit, you also didn't seem to read the bits where I aver that I support the goals of divorcing Wall Street corporate corruption from the processes of our Congress.

But hey, see what you want to see. It's a free country, and if (see that IF, now) blinders suit you, wear them.

[rhett o rick]

26. I think your anger is misplaced. nm

[MADem]

28. I am not at all angry. Truly.

I can discuss a topic without getting upset about it. It's just debate, it's good for the mind.

[rhett o rick]

20. I am for the People. The issues may differ but they all need to be addressed.

I am in favor of showing the police respect but not the overlords that use the police. The overlords have control of the badges and pepper spray.

We will never get attention as long as we beg for permits and stay on the side walks like good peons. I take it you dont approve of civil disobedience. I bet you would want our founders to get a permit before they dumped tea in Boston Harbor.

Sorry but revolutions are "horribly haphazard". I am worried about violence, not "stepping off the side walk".

[DBoon]

12. "They got the guns but we've got the numbers"

"Gonna win yeah, we're taking over.."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGHhqV_QhzE

[sarcasmo]

22. Kick.

[Enthusiast]

23. Kicked and recommended! nt