Question about prayer in local government.

[The Backlash Cometh]

Is it customary for the Mayor of a City to call for a moment of silence before a pledge of allegiance, and end the moment of silence with, "Amen."

[no_hypocrisy]

1. In his neck of the woods, it may be customary, but it isn't constitutional.

The Supreme Court has allowed for a moment of silence in public schools as long as that moment isn't dedicated or directed by the school authorities as prayer or religious purpose. This would likely extend to a public government meeting. However, concluding with an "Amen" gives the preceding moment of silence a religious overtone, like having the last word on the matter. It's innocuous compared to reciting the Lord's Prayer I grant you, but it's still impermissible.

[pintobean]

2. Amen just means 'it is so'.

You've never heard it used outside a religious context? I sure have.

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. Never have heard it outside of a religious context.

[Obamanaut]

3. How is a word of affirmation "'impermissible"? If the moment of silence

was in fact silent, how could the single word be religious in nature? The silent participants could have been mulling over recipes or events planned for the weekend.

[pintobean]

4. Amen.

[dems_rightnow]

13. You should look up the exemption.....

.... for "legislative prayer". The Supreme Court has ruled that prayers before legislative sessions are constitutional. Marsh v. Chambers.

[no_hypocrisy]

15. Thank you. Point taken.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. Case closest to this situation that I could find:

Holloman v. Harland

http://www.au.org/resources/court-decisions/archives/holloman-ex-rel-holloman-v.html

The court applied the three-part Lemon test to the teacher’s prayer practice. First, the teacher’s solicitation of "prayer requests" and her use of the phrases "let us pray" and "amen" made clear that her intent in holding a moment of silence was to foster prayer. While her supposed purpose was to teach students compassion, she had chosen a quintessentially religious means of doing so, contrary to Lemon’s purpose prong. Second, given that the effect of the teacher’s behavior was to promote prayer, an inherently religious activity, her conduct constituted an impermissible governmental endorsement of religion. This was true regardless of whether students had asked the teacher to undertake the presentations, whether they were nonsectarian, and whether students were free to not participate or even leave the room. An objective observer would still view the teacher’s actions as an official endorsement of prayer. Hence, the teacher’s practice failed the Lemon test on two separate bases. Finding the circumstances in this case virtually "indistinguishable" from those in the Supreme Court’s 1985 Jaffree decision, the court concluded the constitutional violation was clearly established, and the teacher was not entitled to qualified immunity. And because her prayer practice was regular and longstanding enough to qualify as a policy, the school board could be held vicariously liable for her conduct.

OK, I understand the case I cited the teacher was over-the-top as far as endorsement of religion. However, it's possible extending this holding to a mere "Amen" could have a similar disapproval by the courts.

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. Thank you!

I think it was very obvious that they were trying to play it up for their right-wing constituents.

[reACTIONary]

6. As a member of AU who has paid attention to this issue...

...what the mayor is doing is probably not unconstitutional. There is no mention of a specific deity or a particular religious doctrine at all. It is, however, highly annoying and he should be asked to stop.

[TBF]

7. You ought to visit Texas sometime - we say that pledge every damned day

somewhere or another. Sports events, government events, PTO meetings, you name it ...

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. It's not the pledge off allegiance that's an issue.

It was something to the effect, we will have a moment of silence, followed by the pledge of allegiance. So the silence followed, then came the AMEN, which one other Commissioner repeated, and then they went into the pledge off allegiance.

[TBF]

11. That too - I'm so used to hearing that I block it out. Along with the "bless you" etc...

It's common down here. They talk like that ALL the time. They arrange their schedules around church events ... it is omnipresent.

[cleanhippie]

12. Considering that it does not invoke any specific deity or religion, it's probably OK.

[indypaul]

14. Being religious

is a lot like being "lady-like" The more you tell me you are,
the more I believe you ain't.