Don't tell me about loners

[canetoad]

You, who have made your mind up that the term 'loner' means the same as 'psychotic murderer'.

Since the Arizona shootings the term has proliferated; Loughner was a loner. Numerous journalists have focussed on the disturbed loner who carried out the shootings, citing high school students as their source of wisdom of insight. Many of these journalists are barely older than students themsleves.

I am a loner. Neither psychotic nor murderous, just able to garner strength from my own inner convictions and live accordingly. It pains me to see the babbling crowds entwine the terms 'loner' with 'sociopathic' and much worse.

A loner does not need popular approval. Again: A LONER DOES NOT NEED POPULAR APPROVAL. Most loners go about their lives in a quiet and non-judgemental fashion neither seeking nor rejecting popular approbation. They do not populate message boards, reply with 'lol' or collect friends on Facebook. Loners are the DU members who have been here for years with a low post count. They watch, absorb, contemplate. They rarely feel the need to expose their deepest thoughts to a multitude of strangers.

Gregarious folk rarely understand loners. The saying, 'what you see is what you get' can be countered with, ' Quality, not quantity.'

[H2O Man]

1. One of Neil Young's

best songs was about a loner.

[slackmaster]

90. I always thought that song was about a car that someone got temporarily from is mechanic

:argh:

[lame54]

104. "Watching you move until he knows he knows who you are"

[LiberalArkie]

2. Me too

[canetoad]

14. You prove the point

Less than 200 posts per year. It took me about 5 years to get to the magic 1000. Wanna meet up in the Lounge and exchange pleasantries to get you over the mark? :hi:

[Boudica the Lyoness]

130. It took me over 9

years to get to 1000 posts. :)

[alterfurz]

154. ISTJ, here since Summer 2001

and just now nearing the 500 mark!

[thanks_imjustlurking]

172. Hey, fellow ISTJ!

Or something like that, now that I think of it - I'm trying to reconstruct without actually taking a test again. I'm *positive* of the "I," though....!

[alterfurz]

199. FYI

quick & dirty 10 minute Jung typology/MBTI test:
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

[thanks_imjustlurking]

205. Thanks - it came out INTJ.

Then I remembered that I'd been a "counselor" when I took it previously, which is INFJ - I was right on the borderline on that T/F. It says I'm a "strongly expressed judging" - hope they mean something other than the negative connotation of that - I'd like to think I don't judge people as long as they're not hurting anybody or anything.

[alarimer]

3. I'm with you.

We live in a society that demonizes the introverted. We are not "team players"; we are stuck up or, worst of all, assumed to be the kind of people who will eventually snap.

[canetoad]

5. Thank you

and you guys in posts above.

I hate the term Team Player. Being on a team means everyone does what they are best at.

[tblue37]

55. On my _Teacher, Teacher_ website I have a piece I wrote in 2002 entitled

"Does Not Play Well with Others." It is about the way our society overvalues self-promotion and gregariousness and undervalues quiet thoughtfulness: http://teacherblue.homestead.com/playswell.html

Here are the first and last parts of the article (with all the rest of the piece snipped out):

About four years ago, Newsweek ran a short article about the fact that psychologists were encouraging elementary school teachers to be on the lookout for the child who tended to go off by himself on the playground or in the classroom, rather than participating in group play or other group activities with his peers. Such a child, the mental health experts suggested, might benefit from early intervention--from counseling and perhaps even from medication with Prozac, Zoloft, or other antidepressants.

Well, I was such a child, and now, as a middle-aged woman, I still prefer to go off by myself rather than engage in group activities.

<snip>

In "The Dismal Discussion Class" (http://teacherblue.homestead.com/discussion.html)I complain about the fact that we overvalue gregariousness in the classroom, a student's willingness to talk (even when he has nothing to say) and to show off or otherwise put himself on display. We also undervalue self-effacing intellectual seriousness. Generally speaking, learning is not a performance art, and at the deepest level, intellectual activity is more likely to require solitude than group interaction.

It is time we stopped thinking of "plays well with others" as the most important quality in a student and penalizing those who do not possess that trait.

Many of the brightest, most talented, and most serious students simply do not play all that well with others.

[InvisibleTouch]

119. Heh ... I remember being at a pre-school/nursery...

...and loving the book corner, though I could not read yet. But I'd look at the pics and try to figure out the story from there. My favorite book was something with a puppy and a big black dog.

Once the teacher tried to get a group of kids together and get them to interact and play "family." I remember she assigned me to be the mother. No sooner was her back turned, than I snuck away from the group and went back to the book corner to find my puppy book. :)

It's not that I had anything against the other kids. It's just that my focus and my rhythm and my passions didn't coincide with theirs.

[tblue37]

147. My daughter--who grew up to be both a doctor and a Fulbright fellow--

was unusually advanced when she was in grade school. She couldn't stand the games the other kids were playing, becuase they were all based on acting out episodes of such shows as Power Rangers. She couldn't get them interested in playing other more imaginative kinds of games (nothing weird, mind you--just the sorts of make-believe games we older folks played as kids when we didn't have TV to imitate all the time). Her teachers were shocked that she played a lot by herself on the playground and thought something was "wrong" with her. She wasn't a loner even--actually, she is quite gregarious. But she just was bored by the idea of acting out TV shows that she found shallow and boring to begin with.

[tomp]

74. "loner" and "introverted" are not the same thing.

i agree that introverts are an oppressed minority.

[quakerboy]

188. Are Introverts a minority?

How would anyone know? Its not like our prime aim is to stand up and be seen.

[tomp]

196. studies have shown introverts at about 25% of the population.

and, it's not like whose prime aim to stand up and be seen? don't understand what you're getting at.

[quakerboy]

204. What I have read is that

most of the studies are done via self reporting. Who is more likely to put themselves forward, to figuratively stand up and be counted, an introvert or an extrovert? Its seems to me that the studies done are inherently somewhat self selecting for extroversion.

[BlueJazz]

4. I Fully understand. I'm friendly to people and all that but I'm also quite happy..

...to be completely by myself.
You know those jobs where the Government sends somebody to the Artic to do studies and all that ??

I'd be perfect for it. :) :)

[canetoad]

8. Ever noticed how

the, shall we say, less extroverted, seem to congregate together?

Luv ya Jazz :hi:

[BlueJazz]

26. Same here. Pal

:)

[Kurovski]

6. K&R

"Loner" also implies that no one else would approve of what he did. Plenty approve.

Thanks for the added insight, canetoad.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

7. Hear! Hear!

"Gregarious folk rarely understand loners. The saying, 'what you see is what you get' can be countered with, ' Quality, not quantity.'"

:thumbsup:

[whathehell]

83. "Gregarious folk rarely understand loners.."

Maybe, but loners are just as unlikely to understand the gregarious.

Believe me, I completely "get" that loners may be unfairly stereotyped as "weird"

"anti-social", etc., but implying that there is more "quality" to introverts or "loners"

than to extroverts is just prejudice in reverse.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

110. LOL! Talk about false equivalence!

You hit it out of the park!

:rofl:

[whathehell]

113. Really?

Would you care to explain?

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

121. Have you interviewed with an HR person lately?

:eyes:

[whathehell]

133. Answering a question with a question?

Sorry, but I'm not playing that game.:eyes:


If you can't or won't explain your position you don't have

the credibility to criticize others for theirs.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

135. Good. Others can figure it out. Too bad you have to be spoonfed.

:cry:

[whathehell]

141. If others "can figure it out"

why are you here whining about being "misunderstood"

and rejected, etc?


Do your cry baby routine with those "others" who

will indulge it.


In the meantime, welcome to my ignore list.:hi:

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

120. Oh No

We get it. Married for 38 yrs to a very gregarious woman.

I get it. She needs the comfort of human existence.
Every day, no sweat, phone calls, texts, emails all the social sh*t.

I had to resort to drugs, alcohol, pot, etc. just to be able to relate.
Did not work. Just got crazy.

Resolved to "be myself", tell others, that worked.

We understand, you cannot.

No fault, the norm is always easier to understand.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

122. Like your username, Tennis! I'm always game!

[whathehell]

136. I'd be interested

in hearing her side of the story.

[riverwalker]

9. best book ever

"Party of One: The Loners Manifesto" by Anneli Rufus.

[applegrove]

41. I loved that book too. It helped explain high school to me.

[Pool Hall Ace]

84. Then it sounds like I should read this book

because I've been out of high school for over 30 years and I still don't get it. :rofl:

[Paka]

189. Loners

Pool Hall Ace...I've been out of high school for over 50 years and I still don't get it. Looks like I should read that book too.

[riverwalker]

191. book makes you proud of being a loner

she writes beautifully about it (us). She also explains why society always has to label these nut/killers as "loners", even when they are not (most are not). It's a protective mechanism. Great book. I recommend for all loners.

[travelingtypist]

72. That's the one I depend on.

It explains so much.

[femrap]

107. I'll have to put that on

my list. As our culture has declined and I've aged, I've become quite the loner. Rather just stay home and be with animals. Civility is hard to find. Driving w/ people texting and phoning is dangerous.

Of late I just want to :hide:

Being an only child made me comfortable being alone. I much prefer being alone compared to being with others who are draining.

[DiehardLiberal]

116. Me too.

I don't like being alone so much but when I do reach out I find so many people draining/boring and prefer my pets' company. I'm a widow and miss my husband almost 8 years on... I would like a fuller life just don't know how to find an acceptable one with like-minded people. I wasn't an only child BTW - the oldest of 4 adopted kids - but that had it's own isolation. Thanks for the validation!

I guess loners appreciate some kinds of company.. :hi: :grouphug:

[femrap]

127. My cat of nearly 17 years

passed away this past summer....and that has made me sad. I'm going to be moving soon so I didn't want to put a cat through that kind of change. My lease is up the end of March and I will be so happy so get out of here. I'm going to try to find a small home out in the country...away from people.

Sorry about your husband...that must be difficult.

I'm stuck in Dumfukistan, the former state of Ohio. Used to live in N. CA with many like-minded people.

I jokingly say, 'Where did my people go? Where are my people?'

Take care. :hi: :hi:

[Paka]

190. Loners

I think loners are just more particular about their company. Gregarious loner is not necessarily an oxymoron.

[Pool Hall Ace]

10. This INTP thanks you for your post.

:thumbsup:

[canetoad]

15. INTJ here friend! nt

[Jamastiene]

89. INTJ here too. n/t

[NOLALady]

165. Another INTJ here!

:hi:

[Odin2005]

22. So does this INFJ!

[Pacifist Patriot]

102. And this INFJ

[Odin2005]

129. I should have know you're one!

:rofl: :hi:

[dave29]

112. :)

[Maraya1969]

118. What the hell is an INFJ?

[Odin2005]

128. Links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INFJ

[Maraya1969]

206. Thank you eom

[Sisaruus]

69. Another INTP agrees.

[Gaedel]

96. I am an INTJ

Back when we did the "testing" for the Meyers-Briggs, the fellow doing the session said that he often works under contract to the Army War College. The Army War College is for senior officers who have a high probability of being generals. Normally when you think "senior army officer" you picture an ESTJ. Whenever they run Meyers-Briggs at the AWC, they come up with a much higher percentage of INTJ than in the normal population. His theory is that a lot of INTJ become successful in ESTJ executive positions by "socializing" themselves to act as ESTJ while keeping their INTJ personalities and "recharging" their emotional batteries by themselves when they are not "on stage".

[montanto]

97. and another INTP

I had always thought that my personality was some sort of aberration until I discovered those personality tests. Really helped me understand who I am.

[firehorse]

106. Another INTP in an extreme culture of manic extroverts

I can't watch TV because people on it seem insane to me, in terms of faux enthusiasm, the sheer volume and hystrionics, the loud opinionated reactions instead of quiet reflection. There are very few zen calm channels or shows. The American culture views introverts as if there is something wrong with them. Introvert does not mean some anti-social psychiatric problem.

I lurked here for years, created an account a couple years ago, and every now and then I come out of lurkdom and post.

[Phoonzang]

195. How come I only find other INTPs on the interwebs? nt

[Chipper Chat]

11. Loner checking in here.

The last party I went to was in 1978. All I remember about it was one side of a Styx album being played over and over. I don't think I have missed anything in the past 32 years by keeping to myself. And I have zero desire to pick up my gun and go shoot another human.

[AndyTiedye]

64. There Are Parties and There Are Parties

I prefer dance parties. Not so much sitting in a circle and chatting.
Socializing tires me out very quickly but I can dance for hours.

Loud music works wonders for killing off the small talk.

Dancing is the best stim there is.

[Gaedel]

94. Not me

I can handle the drone of conversation and just tune the crowd out. I retire into my own inner space. Loud music just irritates my nerve ends and I get out of there just as soon as I can. Loud music is extremely intrusive.

[Maraya1969]

123. I can hear a base playing in a car two blocks away from my house.

And it drives me nuts. To the point that if I am in a nervous state of mind it can bring on a panic attack.

And I can't stand if a the driver of the car I am in plays music. I cannot talk with it on, I get irritated and I wonder why the Hell anyone would meet someone they haven't seen in a few days and get in the car with loud music and no talking. I can do that by myself, I don't need company to sit in an enclosed space listening to music.

I've also been told that I am extremely sensitive to outside stimuli. I've even had a physical test that said my muscles and nerves were highly sensitive. Years ago I used to be a social butterfly but now I am mostly more content in my house with my dogs and cats.

I don't know what I am.

[InvisibleTouch]

12. Likewise!

I'm actually somewhat sociable online, but in person I very much like - no, NEED - my solitude. Can't stand to have people in my space for more than a limited amount of time - no matter how much I may like them. Two emotions I have never in my life felt were loneliness and boredom. Just give me access to a good library, and I'm happy.

[Jamastiene]

92. I feel sorry for the more extroverted types sometimes.

They may think they know the meaning of the word solitude and may think they know what solitude really is, but sometimes tells me a lot of them have never truly experienced it. My wish is that they could, but many are just not able to do what it takes to allow it to happen. They are missing out.

Solitude is the best gift that comes with being a loner, imho...and what a wonderful gift it is.

[InvisibleTouch]

117. Also in that they need the constant feedback of others...

...in order to feel complete within themselves. Happy to say I've never had that problem. :)

I would say the best part is just not having one's sense of self-worth or contentment tied to what others think.

[Jamastiene]

132. True. My sense of self worth and self esteem went way up

coming out of high school, and there was a distinct reason for it.

In high school, my counselors and teachers (although the teachers didn't do it as much as the counselors) were constantly trying to make me socialize more because they said being a loner wasn't healthy mentally. They even chose the group they thought I should join up with.

It was pure hell for me. The group they said I most belonged in turned out to be a bunch of shallow people that ran together. All they ever did was obsess over looks and money. I really didn't care that my jacket wasn't a bone fide Members Only jacket, but a knockoff. It was cheaper and it did the job for me. I liked my jacket and wonder to this day what the point of all that obsessing over having the trendiest jacket did for them in life.

I could have done without that episode in my life entirely. I never could get with it. I don't base my self worth on what other people think. That is ridiculous to expect someone to do that. My counselors need to pay better attention to the next generation so they don't single out a nonviolent student who just prefers the quieter side of life and peaceful solitude to obsessing about looks and money. That was my situation until high school ended. After high school ended, I went my own way and got much happier. I haven't looked back since.

[InvisibleTouch]

143. Oh yeah - finishing high school was like getting out of prison.

Undergraduate college was a whole different world. It was a commuter school, so it didn't have the "frat house" atmosphere that I later came to dislike so much in grad school. In undergrad, the students were *adults* who were serious about learning and were doing their own thing, and they left me alone to do mine.

[BuelahWitch]

13. A few years ago there was a discussion about loners vs. "failed joiners"

One is a loner because of choice, the other because he has been rejected by those from whom he seeks approval. I think Loughner was a failed joiner, not a loner.

BTW, this loner thanks you for starting this thread! :hi:

[canetoad]

19. Ding Ding

That's exactly what I've thought all along. Failed joiner.

[Nay]

75. Yep. He was a failed joiner. I'm a loner--I feel better when people aren't

around me.

[RagAss]

16. I don't hate people. I just seem to feel better when they're not around.

[BlackHoleSon]

38. Barfly!

Haven't thought of that movie in years!

[RagAss]

45. BINGO !!!! ... Roaurke at his best, playing Bukowski ! ...

That line is in a frame on my wall at work !

[provis99]

17. Considering he was a "loner", Loughner knew a lot of people.

his associates, friends, and ex-girlfriends keep popping up all over the news.

[canetoad]

36. My word they do

That's why is terribly wrong to attribute 'loner' to this guys list of faults.

[femrap]

109. I believe I read that

these 'friends' were from high school...many years ago.

[panader0]

18. Me too

I enjoy people's company but spend most of my time alone, especially since being unemployed.I hope you're not in the flood zone down there.

[canetoad]

20. Mate, rain has been pissing down

but I'm in Melbourne, very much to the south of the main floods. Still, the drought has broken and that's a good thing. I wish there was a smilie for a wry smile.

[Art_from_Ark]

33. There is a smilie for a wry smile

;)

[Odin2005]

21. I'm a loner, too!

:hi:

[unkachuck]

23. many people....

....don't understand loner 'neutrality' either....people expect decisive answers to their black and white questions....

"Why don't you like me?"

....I neither like, nor dislike, you....I'm neutral on the question, I wish to be left alone....

[canetoad]

27. Oh yes. Thanks for mentioning

Although it seems to be more common in the USA that people are expected to take a side. Disadvantage of a polarised society I guess.

[MrMickeysMom]

24. I think sometimes you hear that to make you think of...

... "Lone Gunman"....

IMO, some nutters out there would still have you believe the Lee Harvey Oswald association, as (if he was a lone gunman, another subject of never ending lies)

Come to think of it, everybody's alone, regardless of the window dressing.

[snooper2]

25. another term is introvert

FYI

I have a couple good friends who are introverts. One makes 100K a year, wears velcro sneakers, never dates, and drives an ariel atom when it's nice out :)

[Newest Reality]

28. Another loner comes forward to say: HI! :)

I'm glad that you posted some valid points that help distinguish us from the negative implications of the misuse of the term.

[canetoad]

32. And Hi to you and everyove above int he thread

We can share this moment without needing to 'friend' each other on Facebook, exchange emails or pray. Thank you all, loners of DU. You have more influence than you think.

[Pool Hall Ace]

85. Darn it! I was just going to pm you to see if you would be my Facebook friend.

I'll just pray for you. ;)

[babylonsister]

86. Nice thread, canetoad.

Loners can make the best friends, too. :loveya:

[silverweb]

29. Well said.

Thank you.

[stevedeshazer]

30. You speak for all the lonely ones.

I'm a loner, too.

DU is on fire tonight.

Great post, my loner friend.

[imaginary girl]

31. Another case in point

"They do not populate message boards, reply with 'lol' or collect friends on Facebook. Loners are the DU members who have been here for years with a low post count. They watch, absorb, contemplate. They rarely feel the need to expose their deepest thoughts to a multitude of strangers."

I've been visiting several nights a week for over six years ...

[canetoad]

34. I bet you're like me

Poised to make a reply to some over-the-top shit. Then you say, what the hell. Who the fuck could be bothered.

[Buns_of_Fire]

146. Hell, for every post that appears with my name...

There are three or four more that I typed, proofread, and stopped just short of hitting the "Post message" button -- whereupon, I usually wind up just backing out of it after I'm satisfied with the final product. My INFP leanings, I guess.

[Frisbee]

149. My, doesn't THAT sound familiar! n/t

[Mr Generic Other]

39. I've been reading these threads since 2000.

it took me years to say anything at all and i haven't said much since.
my mother always said, "it is better to be silent and let people think you're dumb than to open your mouth and confirm it".

[rrneck]

35. Well said and thanks. nt

[elocs]

37. I am a loner too, but I am in no way introverted or shy. I don't think you need to be introverted

to be a loner. I simply prefer my own company to those of other people. I am alone but I am not lonely. I can easily talk to strangers and will initiate talk with people while waiting in a checkout line and I'll make conversation with clerks.

My guess is that most people who do not know me would never suspect I am a loner. I am on Facebook under a fake name and the only people who are my "friends" are really my "friends" and not the watered down definition of what passes for friends today. With people I can be easily friendly, but I have no desire to be friends.

[canetoad]

40. Well said

Key words, 'Alone but not lonely'.

I too have a Facebook account under a (very)fake identity. It pisses me off no end to be asked to 'friend' a complete stranger.

IMO, loners are much more to be admired than the garrulous friends-to-everyone.

[applegrove]

42. I love my quiet little routines.

[bullwinkle428]

43. WORD. Given the description of Loughner's high school years,

I could have been considered much more of an "oddball" or "weirdo" by comparison, but somehow, I've never had even the slightest desire to do actual harm to anyone!

[bananas]

44. "The Introvert Advantage" and "The Introvert & Extrovert in Love: Making It Work When Opposites..."

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51JzmPRvkaL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Dfvy4wWIL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

[Turborama]

59. Thanks for the links. n/t

[catchnrelease]

193. Oh good....

I was going to mention the Introvert Advantage if no one else did. Really explains introverts--that we are not necessarily shy, lonely, weird, anti-social etc. Also tells the differences in intro/extro brain chemistry. I always recommend it to kindred spirits that have had one of the above labels that don't fit.

I find that the older I get the less time I want to spend trying to be social or make small talk, when I could be doing something I consider more productive. Maybe that makes me a selfish, condescending introvert! O well...........:shrug:

[Ruby the Liberal]

46. Happy loner here.

:hi:

No Facebook or anything of its sort. I just go to work and come home to enjoy the peace and quiet. I ham happy as a clam with my life and with my career, I am just not a crowd/social person. Post divorce, it is a blessing!

I treasure my quiet evenings. Cat in my lap, cup of hot tea and browsing the internet to see what people are up to and chatting about. Tomorrow am, back to work, but tonight - it is time to relax and read.

:toast:

[jillan]

47. Another peaceful loner checking in.

[housewolf]

48. INFP here - Sometimes I think I'm an Aspie

I've been a loner all my life, as far back as kinderarten my favorite activities were solitary things like working jigsaw puzzles, and avoided group activities at all costs. From the time I hit my 20's, I searched and searched for years to figure out what was wrong with me so that I could fix it. All the failed relationships, all the heartbreak, all the disappointments, so many years of feeling different and wanting to be more like everyone else.

I only started hearing the term "Asberger's Syndrome" a couple years ago. When I looked it up, I felt as though they were describing me. It was a revelation to think that there were other folks like me. I like most people, I just don't want them around most of the time, and I don't know what to talk to them about when they are around.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

49. I alternate.

Living in a little town where i feel isolated culturally, I don't usually speak to anyone but DH and the lady I have adopted as "Mom".

When i need stimulation, I go to Houston and hang out with my friends, shop at stores we don't have in the country, go to an occasional movie. Or go to a concert. I have had great difficulty getting them to come see me on weekends.

Then we go back home. So I alternate between extroverted and introverted. I have been a voracious reader all my life. I also took a lot of music lessons and practiced, so I know about doing things alone. I cannot remember when I did not know how to read. I learned to read at age three. The communal thing I did in school was playing in orchestras. I made all my friends pretty much in orchestra. I was a first fiddler. The string players tend to be quiet, introverted techie types. The horn and wind players seem to be more rowdy.

[Jamastiene]

98. Small towns where you feel culturally isolated...

I can relate to that. There are some people in my town who are good to talk to, but for the most part, I don't fit with the local culture, where I live, at all. Reading and writing are my best friends.

[shanti]

50. thank you, canetoad

for posting this. it needs to be said :hug:

[canetoad]

52. And to you shanti

:grouphug:

[old mark]

51. K&R- We have lived in the same house for over 15 years now, and I don't know

the last names of anyone elso on the entire block.
Not only a loner, but a hermit by choice, and happy with it.

mark

[Urban Prairie]

53. I have been a loner for much of my life.

I have never been bored by my mostly self-imposed solitude, I always have known how to keep busy,and entertain myself. Reading old books, making repairs and improvements on/in my (unfortunately now foreclosed) former home, learning more about fixing rebuilding computers and software, programming languages, security, setting up and building Linux/Unix OS boxes, politics, and browsing the internet are just some of them.

However...my wife and especially my unmarried bachelor neighbor also were/have long been loners..but neither really can or could handle it very well, as they do not know how to entertain themselves, and have absolutely no hobbies or personal interests to speak of, they are incurious, and need others to supply their needed stimulation or encouragement to become usually only temporarily occupied, happy, busy, or satisfied. Neither have jobs and both are disabled, but they really desperately need to find jobs and go to WORK so that they have some kind of everyday routine, IMO.

Before I became married, I was occasionally lonely, but I was never unhappy, and I have to say that there still are some times that I wish that I was alone, but also there are many times that I am very grateful that I won't continue to grow older and alone, it is a complicated and occasionally stressful relationship that my wife of ten years and I share.

[IMATB]

54. I raise my hand also.

It is who I am and I like it.

[RandomThoughts]

56. There are many types of loners.

However there are also groups that want people to be loners to try and remove their empathy.

Although many loners can have much empathy, and much caring, they might just not have found the right groups, or have smaller needs of interactions.


I think LOL can be from a loner, why would you think that a smiley is to get popular approval, it might just be an expression.

On a side note, not wanting popular approval, and doing things for the purpose of upsetting people is a different thing.


People have called me a loner also, although that is because of unjust actions that removed being around society by wrongful taking of beer and travel money. And that will be corrected when someone figures out they should correct that wrong, and pay the beer and travel money that is due to me.

[canetoad]

57. Have you given much consideration

to the plight of those who feel no need to join into the meticulous dissection of the daily lives of their neighbours?

You point out items that are not 'random thoughts', or particulary special sentiments. Just things that should be self-evident to any breathing human with a poofteenth of a degree of empathy.

Can I out-random you? I bet I can.

[RandomThoughts]

61. Yea I have thought about that.

Although my expression of sentiments, weather they are of random thoughts or not, are pretty obvious.

If they should be self evident, then why would people not have those thoughts. That leads to concepts of who or what you are talking to, and also if there are filters, and also even the context of the existence a person is in.

But really weather it is obvious or not, that is not the point of posting something.


There could also be the comment in your post, that it is not me posting or thinking these things, trying to give an excuse to make me irrelevant. Then that can be a justification to ignore my rightful claims.

It is possible some ignore what I say because they don't believe it is me saying it.


As I posted years ago, the need for randomness in posting is also to show that it is a choice of what a person posts.


You could be making the comment that all people are is filters, that is the reversal of the concept that filters should be removed, and a concept against people. I think the filters are things that keep people from thinking and feeling on things.

Great comment actually, if people were just repeating machines without thought and feeling, then they would not have 'filters' however the filters I am talking about are the blockers keeping them from thinking and feeling on their own.

As far as bets, or what you can do, you can do what you want, I have no reason to gamble with anyone. Although it can be entertaining.

And if you can be more random then me, that is fine also.

If you are saying random is out, that is your view on things. and where would you get that view? Would it be from something posted by random, wouldn't that be silly.

Pat Benatar - We Belong
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1nmrs_pat-benatar-we-belong_music

[snooper2]

101. I believe you meant to use whether, not weather

:hi:

[RandomThoughts]

185. I think I usually spell it weather.

And if your curious, I noticed the spelling of that word years ago, and thought years ago, that was an advantages method of spelling of that word. So it is not a 'coincidence' or an 'unthoughtful' concept to spell that word weather, but after thinking, a decision to not worry about there being other ways to spell that word.

weather is usually used to designate trends in society so like that spelling of the word.

I also have always had a few issues with people that like conformity in forms of communication like spelling or grammar, and think an occasional miss spelling of words, or usage of their there they're and are our is to make a point of non conformity to systems, or a comment on the meaning, while some think on topics of the proper spelling of a label, I think it is about more then that.

I find it a bit ridiculous that if you say something, someone only focuses on if you spelt it like they did, to me that seems like a claim to know more or to know what is better only by concepts of conformity, not thought.

I do think using the standard same language system can make things more readable, but feel pointing out that some only comment on the conformity, and not the content of a comment, and I disagree with that, and think that is worth a little unreadability to make that point.

[snooper2]

197. you get first prize

for the longest post in reply to a spelling correction!

Remember, words have meaning :)

[Pool Hall Ace]

200. I had to look up "poofteenth"

I'm adding it to my vocabulary.

[Kievan Rus]

58. I used to be a loner

Not that I'm saying there's anything intrinsically wrong or bad about it, it just wasn't for me.

If being a loner makes somebody happy, then who am I to judge?

[BuelahWitch]

62. Then you weren't really a loner

It's something that's hard wired, not something you "try on" to see if it fits.

[sense]

63. I agree. Jonathan Rauch writes about introversion.

Here's a link to an article written by him that says it so well:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/03/caring-for-your-introvert/2696/

He's written a few other articles on the subject and I'm always tempted to refer people to his articles because loner or shy really don't explain a thing.

[BuelahWitch]

80. Thanks!

[Turborama]

60. The media definition of "loner" = lonely misanthrope that doesn't "fit in"

My definition, someone who enjoys their own company and can take or leave the company of others.

Also someone who knows what the difference between friends and acquaintances is.

[treestar]

103. Good point. I once came into contact with a shallow, pleasant girl

who talked endlessly of her activities with "friends." So many friends that really, they were probably only acquaintances. They didn't have names, they were "friends."

[Sigh Sister]

65. Thank you from a fellow loner!

Now I'm going to log back out.....

[Posteritatis]

66. The term is uselessly broad anyway

I'm pretty sure the media likes to use it as a synonym for "introvert" at times (though that's treated like a horrible unacceptable state of mind as often as not too).

[Pooka Fey]

67. Quality, not quantity.

I'm also a loner, I don't need popular approval. I wouldn' say that I prefer to be alone. I love company, however I am extremely sensitive and empathic, so I actually become physically ill when I have to spend too much time in the company of idiots. That cuts down my potential social circle to a very few select individuals. I actually need to have places like DU because I actually suffer from my isolation, but I suffer more when I'm exposed to average, insensitive, selfish humans. But you are right, I know people judge me because I am often in public alone, spending holidays alone, going to movies alone. I know what you mean -- good post. Thanks for sharing. :toast:

[Faux pas]

68. Happy loner here that would love to be a hermit. What keeps me

from being a hermit is that I have no survivor skills. :)

[BlueCollar]

70. K&R...n/t

[virginia mountainman]

71. Yep...

Another INTJ here..

Many people fear what they don't understand, many "very outgoing" people, literally don't know how to deal with an introvert. The easy way for the outgoing people to deal with one is to simply say that "Something is wrong with THEM (the introvert) and by dismissing them as such, they can go on in their gregarious ways, an need not worry themselves about the "odd ball" that keeps to themselves.

It has taken my wife 20 years to even begin to understand my need for "me" time, and not take it personally, as she used to do.

[pruple]

73. K&R

Thanks for this thread.

[justiceischeap]

76. I'm a loner too. My few friends I have don't understand it at all

I don't know how often I hear, "You need to get out more." No, I don't need to get out more, I'm quite happy not getting out more. That's the whole point. Oh well. I love them for their good intentions.

Does this mean the FBI agent that watches DU will put me on some kind of blooming psychotic murderer watch list?

[Darth_Kitten]

77. Great points! But I have a high post count, and I consider myself a loner...

:)

[lunatica]

78. Stop allowing the media to put you on the defensive

Just because some killers are loners doesn't mean all loners are killers. Everyone knows that. You don't even need to explain it to anyone.

[oldlib]

79. LONER is implied to be a negative term.

I was also perceived as a loner in High School. I have never or never contemplated the need to kill anyone and I am only more reserved then my outgoing friends. This may be from my Scandinavian upbringing, and thinking about it, I recall that my parents did not display the touchy feel that is so common today when greeting anyone. The women might occasionally embrace. The men. Never!

[Phentex]

82. Yes, I think that is one problem...

is doesn't have to be a negative but it is used that way.

[progressoid]

81. Well said.

[tinkerbell41]

87. Hi!

:hi: Same here. I spend weeks without my phone ringing, or seeing anyone. I'm fine with it. In fact, the last few weeks have been exhausting, it's been a flurry of hour long phone chats, with about 4-5 people. My grade school best friend mother is dying, and because of this an old crush popped in my life and wants to talk.
Although I am happy to have them back in my life, I am mentally drained. Hard to describe. I am outgoing and friendly but I can only take so much personal interaction. For many years I have always gone back to waiting tables when my "real job" got slow, it satisfies my social outgoing self, but I only have a brief 30 min interaction of being super friendly and talkative with my table. I DON"T have to (bring them home).

[Jamastiene]

88. Absolutely.

K&R to the nth degree. I could not agree more.

[slackmaster]

91. Proud loner checking in

I hear you, bro'.

:grouphug:

[sarcasmo]

93. Kick

[montanto]

95. Another loner here.

The majority gets to define the terms, and loners are always considered "troubled" people. Seems to be human nature to pick on anyone who is a little different. I've had long talks with my wife about this. She finally (after 16 years) understands that my state of being, while different from hers, is just as legitimate as hers. While she never quite thought I was "disturbed," or "troubled" she couldn't understand why I didn't like to socialize and why it takes me a decade or more to warm up to someone (other than her). Others never get the time to figure out that I'm not angry, or crazy, or defensive, I'm just quiet and contemplative. Not by choice, but by nature I live by the saying that "you've got two ears and one mouth, you should use them in that ratio."

[BeFree]

99. Actually

A true LONER wouldn't be posting on DU, or anywhere.

Like you claimed: "They do not populate message boards,"

[Vinnie From Indy]

100. "I'm a lone wolf Dottie"

PeeWee Herman

[Scottybeamer70]

105. I feel much better

knowing that I am not the only loner in the world.
Great responses from some obviously great peple.
Been a loner for almost 72 years.......see no point
in changing it now.
Maybe that's why I so enjoyed working with children
with the autism syndrome. Most were in their own
little world, as was I. We got along great.

[femrap]

108. Thank you for

speaking up for the Loner. Staying home w/ the animals and reading gives me great comfort.

[dave29]

111. Thank you. n/t

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

114. Thank You

I too, would rather be alone. No psychosis. Just a preference.

What you say agrees with me, thanks again.

[liberation]

115. There is a difference between being a "loner" and being "anti-social"

The media as usual is either too daft or too disingenuous to provide a correct narrative.

It is easier to blame this on a "mentally ill loner," than it is to face the fact that the shooter saw violence as a perfectly reasonable course of action because his anti-social tendencies had been validated by the insane amounts of violent rhetoric coming from very specific social and political sources.

Loners are easier to pick on, because well... by definition they do not have a large support group that will push back against the blame being cast on them. Same goes for "mentally ill" individuals, even though people with mental health issues are overwhelmingly the ones at the other end of abuse (e.g. a big chunk of our extremely large homeless population suffers mental health conditions and are abused, hurt, and even killed in very large numbers without people really caring that much). People suffering from mental conditions have to add culpability to their already tremendous stigma.

Escape goats will always be the ones easier to pick on whenever any society is in the process of relinquishing its responsibility.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

124. Thank you...

Loners can also have high post counts online, numerous friends in certain circles, and not know any of their neighbors. But the basic statement is still true...A loner does not need popular approval.
:thumbsup:

[Krakowiak]

125. K&R from one loner to another

Thanks.

[foxfeet]

126. Late to the party, but another loner checking in. (INTJ)

Thanks for the thread, canetoad.

[Lenomsky]

131. 'Loners are the DU members ...

... who have been here for years with a low post count... They watch, absorb, contemplate.'

K&R is that how it works (Sorry from UK) but couldn't agree more! DU gives me hope so many right (ok left) thinking individuals.

As you say 'quality over quantity' not everyone wants to be on public display with a league of 'so called friends' or indeed true friends but with me it is 'WYSIWYG' .. if you don't like it tough luck move on! A compliment from a true friend has so much more worth.

Excellent post/thread 'canetoad' (Am I contradicting myself lol - I jest).

[EC]

134. I am pretty much a loner too and I don't understand

gregarious folk. Never understood the need to be the center of attention.

[timefortherevolution]

137. Sign me up for Facebook for Loners.

[stuntcat]

138. but internet is the only place I'm *not a loner

I AM 100% a loner. This sounds pathetic admitting my social life is mostly a few DU'ers who hardly know me eh.

I think a lot, not being held down all day by conversations with barely interesting people will do that to you, make you consider things quite a lot, maybe too much.
Then when I have to spend time pretending to be social with my fellow Arlingtonians I see that I am nothing like them. I'm proud of being a loner.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

139. I agree

[GSLevel9]

140. I agree... some people just enjoy their own company and aren't needy for social BS. nt

[MissDeeds]

142. Well said

Frankly, I worry more about those who are not comfortable with their own company.

"I have never found a companion that was so companionable as solitude." - Thoreau

[Kindigger]

144. I can relate

I am exhausted just thinking about the exhaustive nature of someone who feels they must fill every pause; every moment of silence.

[Uncle Joe]

145. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, canetoad.

[DRex]

148. I love love love being alone...

It worries me sometimes, I'm sure you know what I mean. "What's wrong with me?" "Am I emotionally ill or something?" "is it good for me to have so little social interaction..."

But you know, it's really comforting to read all these comments and know that there are others out there who just like to be left alone, and even better, they know that it's okay to be that way.

Because when I'm alone, I don't feel bad, or ill, or anything like that. I just enjoy the opportunity to edify myself in the ways that I enjoy most, one of which is browsing around DU endlessly.

Thanks for the thread, OP! Happy lone ranging...

[Fire Walk With Me]

150. The problem is the preponderance of easily-obtained guns, rather than those who would mis-use them.

[DallasNE]

151. But Loughner Had Friends

When Loughner ran away from home awhile back the father called this friend and got the name of a motel where he was staying and talked him into coming back home. This had to be a close friend for Loughner to confide such information. Loughner certainly isn't a loner in the sense that the Unabomber was. In fact, it may not even be fair to call him a loner -- meaning it is a media characterization meant to try and make sense of this horrible act.

[cynatnite]

152. Point out one post that said being a loner equals psychotic murderer. n/t

[elocs]

153. This thread was going along quite nicely until post #152.

I think everyone else who posted understood the point of the OP and did not demand an example.

[cynatnite]

155. The OP said...

You, who have made your mind up that the term 'loner' means the same as 'psychotic murderer'.

I don't believe that there are DUer's who are so shallow as to equate being a loner with a psychotic murderer.

[jennied]

156. I'm a loner, too.

I've been here since the 2008 elections, read the boards daily, and still have a very low post count.

What the OP said is completely right. I have always just been this way, and there's nothing wrong with it.

[bengalherder]

157. I've always preferred quality to quantity.

I have always had few friends, but those relationships have tended to be deep and last for years.

I do very little that requires crowd contact, unless my gregarious husband is there to take the brunt of the socializing.

At large parties, I tend gravitate to people's pets because I find them more interesting. Their book and LP collections likewise become fascinating and revealing.

My parents and my oldest son are that way as well.

There ain't nothing wrong with not being able to connect to the masses. Lord knows I've never missed having conversations revolving around 'who shot JR', or whatever passes for talent on American Idol, or the recent season of 'Lost" (for which I admit I enjoyed being a spoiler; I worked at one place where everyone seemed to be watching it at different speeds. I began 'innocently' injecting items I had overheard in discussion about recent episodes into conversations with co-workers who hadn't caught up yet. I'm sure God will get me for that.:evilgrin: ).

Here's to all the 'loners' out there. :toast:

[Politicub]

158. Important post

Loners always get tarred with a broad brush when something like this happens.

You said it best - "Most loners go about their lives in a quiet and non-judgemental fashion neither seeking nor rejecting popular approbation."

[Number23]

159. Tell it, Toad!

They rarely feel the need to expose their deepest thoughts to a multitude of strangers.

I wonder about that every time I come into GD. It's bizarre how much folks reveal about themselves here. Absolutely bizarre.

[CRH]

160. I have always kept my own council, ...

Lived in situations where my politics were always far left of the macho good ole boy right that was prevalent in the areas I lived.

I value introspection and peace and quiet over constant companionship or palling around.

I'm amused with groupies, fad following fakes, the plastic fantastic, silicon tits, the botoxed and face lifted, toupeed people who disguise there natural aging. People trying to be like others at the expense of their uniqueness. I'm often saddened when pulchritude and simplistic elegance, is savaged with fashionable pretense.

I can be social when I choose, but for the most part I value my quiet time more. I always felt I learned more through thinking and reflection, than talking.

I don't mind intelligent conversation, but I dislike gossip and prattle.

I'm what many would call a loner, by choice and without regret.

[NOLALady]

161. My name is NOLALady and I am a quiet loner.

Some High school peers said they didn't "trust" me, because you couldn't trust "quiet" people. I would ask, just how or why did they think I could hurt them. Never got a response.

[Skittles]

162. OMG canetoad

just yesterday I was watching a movie with a scene of someone who lived alone - they always make the people LONELY, as if being alone automatically means being LONELY. They depict a wretched existence. I HEAR YOU CANETOAD! I am very much a loner in real life although I have learned to be social at work. And I am fine! If anything, I see people who are unable to stand their own company as WEIRD! :hi:

[Alameda]

163. Yes, I agree. Those who like to be alone are maligned.

There is a difference between being antisocial, and needing/wanting some introspective alone time. However, there are some who can not socialize and are unhealthy because of that.

Humans are a flock, herd,pack or whatever type animal. There is a fine balance between not wanting to be bothered with others, not wanting to share, and introspection.

[M_A]

164. K&R

from a fellow non-violent loner.

[undergroundpanther]

166. Loner

A loner is someone introverted.introversion should never be criminalized. Extroverts need to realize not everybody needs to be socially embedded in other people's dramas. When dramas are stinking things up I become a loner,an irritated loner. Sometimes I'm an extrovert, but sometimes I am an introvert.Why? because of PTSD,and Dissociative Identity disorder among other shit,my trust is very hard to come by for others. I am extroverted among my friends,a gentle warm and caring to a fault .Among social situations that I am unfamiliar or detect a coldness or some authoritarianism or a whiff of a sociopath,I am an introvert with a dominating intimidating look. When in those situations I sit there and I observe people until I feel comfy enough to let myself exhibit my usual enchanting side..but even then very few I will let in proximity to my heart.

So In a way I am a loner,but don't always look like one. I think in reality most killers are Jekyll and hyde types they can do a very convincing facade of extroversion and pillar of society bullshit to create the 'normalcy mask' while secretly they stash dead bodies in their attic.It is only revealed when the psychopath gets caught.And all the neighbors say,he was such a normal nice guy.

[saras]

167. Tricky definition...

I used to think I wasn't a loner, I just had high standards (i.e. I'm not a loner unless I'm surrounded by stupid or by groupthink). I've been a musician all my life, and I've only known one other musician I could comfortably jam with. Any noise one of us made, the other would start making it into music. Nearly everyone else starts out "what genre?" and then gets upset at anything that doesn't fit the genre restrictions.

On the other hand, I've always been recognized as 'different' by those who prefer primate grooming rituals to human interaction, and they used to enforce lonerhood on me. In high school, I hang out with all the other people who weren't allowed to hang out in the existing cliques - that's all we had in common: the brain, the thug, the kid with the briefcase (there was only one in my school), the slightly disabled kid, the kid who just moved into the area and acted 'different', etc.

After reading this thread, I want to BECOME a loner. They seem like a nicer crowd to run with.

[LonePirate]

168. I might as well check in, too since I certainly fit the bill and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[formercia]

169. Not a Team Player

is what it said on my review.

[Pool Hall Ace]

201. See canetoad's post #5

for an excellent definition of "team player."

Just out of curiosity, what did your supervisor recommend you do in order to become more of a "team player" ??

[tomhaverford]

170. Well said

I'm a loner and I'm proud that I don't need to feel part of anything to have a sense of worth. I'd be more worried about the growing breed of vain and superficial Gen-Y and later Americans who think each of them is special and everything they do or say is important.

[thanks_imjustlurking]

171. Thanks from a "loner." nt

[DaveJ]

173. Congrats CT on making the Greatest list...

Yeah.

I was voted the shyest person in my class in High School.

I had no friends of any significance, like now. That differs from others who I thought were even more reclusive. But they were in fact loners, as they did not find and solace or productivity in their solitude, but rather wanted to be alone, or at least convey that image. I was working while everyone else was partying. Loners were going to parties, and emitting the image of the 'loner' in order to garner attention. That's my theory anyway. Back to work.

[thanks_imjustlurking]

174. I wish I could remember a test I took in graduate school

I tested as introverted as possible in social situations, and as extroverted as possible when on the job and in charge. I don't see a contradiction there, at all. I'm not into chit-chat.

[DaveJ]

175. Ok, boss

Just wondering, how can you be in charge without chatting with your subordinates?

[thanks_imjustlurking]

177. You can't, and I do. Just don't like to do it without a reason.

I can do it as part of a job. Learned skill. Doesn't mean I enjoy it. Actually, I do, often. But I *can* do it even if I don't enjoy it.

Edited to say that I enjoy it "often" rather than "sometimes" - I'm in a particularly good job right now, and very appreciative.

[DaveJ]

180. Sorry but I think boss's should enjoy listening

I have a boss who just loves being the boss. A great leader should know how to listen, enjoy it, and get ideas from the people doing the grunt labor, appreciating their insights, etc. If I were the boss, I would love listening to and interacting with everyone. People feel belittled when their boss seems disinterested in them.

[thanks_imjustlurking]

182. I completely agree. I don't find that inconsistent with what I said.

I assure you that I am interested in all the people I work with, but I'm not nosy unless I have to be. I try to treat people as I would wish to be treated.

Edited for typo. And to clarify that I'm actually extroverted (so the test told me, and it is consistent with my self-evaluation) at work. Cocktail parties, not so much. I'm better when there's an actual goal.

[Zookeeper]

176. Most people guess that I'm an extrovert when they meet me....

I chat with cashiers, clerks, waitpeople and can always rise to the occasion in a social situation. However, 99% of the time, I would rather be home working on a project. My poor DH is an extrovert and, after years of suffering through business-social dinners and activities, I send him alone. Luckily, he has mostly made peace with that.

Parties are hell for me, unless I have the opportunity to really talk with someone one-to-one. I really don't understand what people talk about when they call each other every single day.

Two of my three kids are old enough to move out, but they choose to live here, so I can't be too crazy. (Although, they sometimes push me in that direction... ;) )

[thanks_imjustlurking]

178. "I chat with cashiers, clerks, waitpeople and can always rise to the occasion in a social situation.

Exactly! Duty calls.

[jp11]

179. As a 'loner' co-workers have joked I'm the type to 'come in and start shooting one day'

cause loner=psychotic murderer. :(

[thanks_imjustlurking]

181. I'm so sorry. That almost sounds like bullying.

Edited to add: What do I mean "almost"?!

[LWolf]

183. My post count isn't particularly low,

but I'm a loner in just about every sense of the word.

Yet I'm neither psychotic nor violent.

A LONER DOESN'T NEED POPULAR APPROVAL. :thumbsup:

I prefer to communicate with a computer in a variety of formats, because I can choose when to do so, how long to spend, who and what to listen to...and I can do it all in blessed silence, without anyone demanding my time and attention.

[bobbolink]

184. You are right... being an introvert is NOT "mental illness" nor is it flawed.

The same goes for being extraverted.

The problem is we live in a society which wants everyone to be like they are.... We want to preach "freedom", but we want everyone to be same/same.

[DailyGrind51]

186. "Loners" gain self-knowledge, something that others playing for an audience seldom accomplish.

[Beam Me Up]

187. Thank you! I enjoy my solitude more than most can imagine. n/t

[Swagman]

192. yes I'm a 'loner' as well..even in crowds always feel alone

even with a group of friends. Never want to hurt anyone though.

'canetoad'...are you in QLD?

[senseandsensibility]

194. This is an interesting topic.

I think that there are different degrees of "lonerism." I would probably be at the most gregarious level of "lonerism." I don't want to live alone, and am happily married. I must have some kind of interaction with people regularly. But I find that I can't stand being around large groups of people, except for relatively short periods of time, or in fairly regulated settings. I suppose life is all about balance.

[RegieRocker]

198. Labeling by the far right and left continues at a rapid

pace. Don't agree with them and you're labeled. It is as simple as their labeling doesn't amount to a hill of beans. It's their way of coercion. Not part of the bandwagon then your xxxxxx.

[stevenleser]

202. Gacy and Bundy were quite the popular folk... n/t

[Odin2005]

203. KICK