Michele Bachmann An Anti-Vaccine Wingnut?

[ChandlerJr]

Well, she is batshit crazy and now certifiably insane as well.

Michele Bachmann continued to attack Rick Perry over the Gardisil decision on morning television today, and related this odd story:
“I will tell you that I had a mother last night come up to me here in Tampa, Fla., after the debate. She told me that her little daughter took that vaccine, that injection, and she suffered from mental retardation thereafter,” Bachmann said.
She continued: “The mother was crying what she came up to me last night. I didn’t know who she was before the debate. This is the very real concern and people have to draw their own conclusions.”
This sounds a lot like the claims that childhood vaccines such as the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine cause autism. A charge which has been thoroughly debunked in light of the revelation that the report on which it was based was a complete fraud. There’s been no evidence that the HPV vaccine causes anything close to what Bachmann is claiming happened here.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/michele-bachmann-an-anti-vaccine-wingnut/

[MineralMan]

1. She's all kinds of wingnut. Take your pick. nt.

[brooklynite]

2. No...your basic bible-thumper wingnut

HPV isn't part of the anti-vax movement. It's a religious issue. Because HPV is a sexually transmitted disease, the "Family Values" crowd worries that vaccinating girls will give them "safety" from the consequences of pre-marital sex.

[kestrel91316]

4. Oh, the antivaxers hate the HPV just as much as they hate every other vaccine.

Bachmann is probably both antivaxer and christian virginal purity freak in this case.

[proverbialwisdom]

8. You will regret maligning those parents one day. Today @ http://www.ageofautism.com/

http://www.ageofautism.com/2011/09/autism-strains-autism-subsets.html

Autism Strains, Autism Subsets
September 8, 2011

by Anne Dachel, Media Editor of Age of Autism.

U.S. Researchers Identify Two Autism Strains in Major Breakthrough.
( http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/09/08/us-researchers-identify-two-autism-strains-in-major-breakthrough/ )

New findings from the UC Davis Mind Institute were just announced at an international autism conference in Perth, Australia. The Autism Phenome Project has been in the works since 2006 and they've now found two different types of autism. Hopefully this discovery will help to determined the appropriate treatment a particular child according to Dr. David Amaral: 'The ultimate goal is when a child comes into the clinic, rather than saying you just have autism, to be able to say you have autism type A, or type B, or type C. 'And then based on that description, we would know whether there is a different treatment profile that we should recommend to the families. 'As an example, if a child has an immune form of autism, it may be that what we want to do is manipulate their immune system rather than trying something else that may be related to synaptic functions in the brain.'

Autism itself will continue to be a mystery however. Amaral predicted that there are probably going to be lots more subtypes of autism: 'My guess is that there just isn't going to be a single diagnostic marker for autism, there's going to be a whole panel.'

I noticed that FOX reported that one of the study groups of boys "had enlarged brains and most had regressed into autism after 18 months of age." Is anyone interested in what may have caused a suddenly regression into neurological disorder? While David Amaral is studying the group of boys who regressed after 18 months, is he going to consider the routine vaccinations they received?

Robert MacNeil interviewed Amaral for PBS in April, 2011. MacNeil asked, "What is your position today on vaccines and autism?"

In response to this, Amaral gave the broad disclaimer, "I think it's pretty clear that, in general, vaccines are not the culprit." And the reason was the standard, studies show no link.

Then he added this blockbuster, "It's not to say, however, that there is a small subset of children who may be particularly vulnerable to vaccines."

He went on to say, "And in their case, having the vaccines, or particular vaccines, particularly in certain kinds of situations -- if the child was ill, if the child had a precondition. Like a mitochondrial defect. Vaccinations for those children actually may be the environmental factor that tipped them over the edge of autism. And I think it is incredibly important, still, to try and figure out what, if any, vulnerabilities, in a small subset of children, might make them at risk for having certain vaccinations."

MacNeil asked if more studies of these possibly susceptible kids should be done.

Amaral answered, "Yeah. So I think, personally, it's a reasonable thing to do. Because I think that autism is ultimately going to have many, many causes. There are going be many, many subsets of children that are going to have different etiologies. Some of which are going be more environmental, some of which are going be more genetic. And I frankly don't think that there's going to be a large group of children that -- their autism is caused by their standard immunizations. But you know, it could be a small subset."

When the lead researcher of an autism study admits that vaccines may be a factor, it's time we all woke up to the possibility. It's also time scientists stopped merely identifying the disorder. An epidemic is disabling a generation of children and we must stop it.

[HuckleB]

11. Goodness. You're really trying to push AoA's disgusting crap as something of value?

AoA is despicable: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/the-price-of-skepticism/

[SidDithers]

17. It's AoA quoting FoxNews..

There's all kinds of truthiness in that combination. :rofl:

Sid

[proverbialwisdom]

21. Have you ever noticed the number of pharmaceutical ads on commercial television?

Might that create a blind spot? If our media didn't suck so much, the news would've be reported.

[HuckleB]

29. Have you ever heard of a logical fallacy?

[jberryhill]

45. Beer ads too

And yet, everyone's local news still reports drunk driving crashes.

You want to talk about how much money there is in treating autism with junk therapies based on this shit?

[Warren DeMontague]

85. No, because my aunt with post-polio syndrome keeps blocking the t.v.

...cough.

[LeftishBrit]

93. Pharma ads on TV are illegal in the UK and the EU in general; and we still vaccinate.

I strongly disapprove of the Pharma companies influence on American healthcare, but not everywhere is America. Countries that have had single-payer healthcare for over 60 years still vaccinate. One cannot equate vaccinations with the Americna healthcare system.

[Spider Jerusalem]

20. Fucking hell, not this nonsense yet AGAIN

Age of Autism is not a reliable souce for anything at all. These useless fuckwits still defend Andrew Wakefield even after the General Medical Council in the UK found him guilty of serious professional misconduct in regard to the original deeply flawed study claiming a nonexistent link between vaccines and autism. There is ZERO credible scientific evidence supporting any link whatever between vaccinations and autism; repeated studies have failed to find one.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftishBrit]

92. A fair number of people seem to be both.

Although there are certainly some left-wing anti-vaccinators, there seems to be a certain correlation between hard-right attitudes and suspicion of vaccines. For a certain number of people and groups, hostility of government provision/endorsement of some or all vaccines is just one aspect of hostility to *any* sort of government involvement in healthcare provision, or indeed to public services of any sort.

In the UK, it is the RW tabloids, especially the Daily Mail, that have been the biggest purveyors of the anti-MMR scare. In America, it is evident that teabagger and hard-right-libertarian sites, Ron Paul supporters, and organizations such as the American Association for Physicians and Surgeons have been among the anti-vaccine propagandists, even well before Michele Bachmann joined the fray.

The fact that Gardasil is seen as a 'sex vaccine' doubtless aggravates the paranoia, but many hard-right sites also spread propaganda against the MMR, the flu vaccine, and even the polio vaccine. The fundamental objection IMO is based on the fact that vaccines are recommended and often provided by *governments*, and thus go against the hard-right ideal of people taking total responsibility for their own health and avoiding dependence on governments who will make the nation 'soft', if not actually establishing death panels, putting poison in vaccines to cull the population, treating them as an excuse to impose 'marshal' law, or using them to inject microchips in people so that the government can spy on them.

[proverbialwisdom]

3. Uh, no. Get educated - if you dare.

http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=gardasil&domains=ageofautism.com&sitesearch=ageofautism.com

[kestrel91316]

5. FAIL. Every single thing on that list links to Age of Autism, antivaxers extraordinaire.

[proverbialwisdom]

7. You're wrong. Try spending some time reading the articles there.

Are you denying that adverse reactions may occur following vaccination? Are you asserting that all vaccines are always safe for everyone?

AoA does nothing more than prove that both claims are FALSE.


Here's just a sample. Sorry, I don't have time to do this subject justice. You'll have to do your own reading.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/12/hpv-vaccine-gardasil-and-cervarix-vaers-reports-injury-and-death-continue-to-climb.html

HPV Vaccine (Gardasil and Cervarix) VAERS Reports - Injury and Death Continue to Climb

The injury and death related to the HPV Vaccines Gardasil and Cervarix continue to rise. How many will it take before the FDA takes action?

Dec 04, 2010

The VAERS information is now being updated weekly for the HPV Vaccines. As of November 3, 2010 the reports are as follows: 20,575 adverse reactions 352 reports of abnormal pap smears post vaccination 89 reported deaths (plus 5 reports submitted to the FDA obtained by Judicial Watch under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) are now missing from VAERS)

Case numbers: # 300741 # 314524 # 321405 # 325151 # 381305

The first four reports are on Judicial Watch. Vaccine Adverse Effects Report System (VAERS) cumulative deaths report - June 16, 2009 - PAGE MISSING.

The other report is in http://www.judicialwatch.org/files/documents/2010/VAERS-052009-to-092010.pdf . Vaccine Adverse Effects Report System (VAERS) serious effects report from May, 2009 to September, 2010 - .

Please visit our site at http://sanevax.org/ . # # # THE SANE VAX MISSION is to promote Safe, Affordable, Necessary & Effective vaccines and vaccination practices through education and information. We believe in science-based medicine.

[HuckleB]

10. AoA offers only propaganda that leads to sickness and death.

[HuckleB]

13. Stop trying to bring back disease.

http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2011/06/17/how-safe-is-the-hpv-vaccine-new-data-available/

[Odin2005]

16. Age of Autism = BIGOTS that think I am "damaged". FUCK THEM.

Fuck every single on of them.

[proverbialwisdom]

30. I'm sorry you feel that way, but from everything I've ever read there, that is simply not true.

Age of Autism is a site which aggregates news on autism. It is also an advocacy site where parents of children with autism gather and SHARE INFORMATION (including original research) and experiences with each other and the public.

I admire the people and site tremendously.

Here's a spin-off: http://canaryparty.org/

[HuckleB]

31. It's anything but what you describe.

The demonize everything, and they are pushing a dangerous and clear propaganda aimed at bringing back disease.

There is no way to describe AoA as anything but despicable.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/the-price-of-skepticism/

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/12/the_anti-vaccine_movement_shows_just_how.php

[LynneSin]

6. Ok so she's saying some kid was given this vaccination and *BAM* next day was mentally retarded

I mean this is a vaccine that isn't to be administered before the 9th birthday, so mental health of a child should be clearly distinguished by this time.

I suspect that there were plenty of facts missing from this statement but then again it came from Michelle Bachmann who in general is devoid of facts

[KOfan]

9. Psycho-bich

Satan's daughter, Palin is Satan's sister and it's one big f*cked up family in hell.

[KamaAina]

12. On top of everything else, Bachmann Loser Overdrive is confusing autism with mental retardation!

First of all, we don't even say "mental retardation" anymore; the preferred term is "intellectual disability".

Secondly, even if vaccines did cause autism (which can never be proven, as there is no one single cause), it isn't the same thing. There are a number of Autistic DUers, for instance, at least one of whom (yours truly) holds an Ivy League degree.

[proverbialwisdom]

14. INFO: http://www.ageofautism.com/ founders have Ivy League degrees, too.

Let's see, there's a Princeton grad with a Harvard MBA (Mark Blaxill), a Yale grad (Dan Olmsted), and Stanford MBA (JB Handley), for starters. And let me tell you, the collective expertise of the many other highly educated and exceedingly well informed parent contributors there far exceeds any reflexive deference to some 'Ivy League' mystique.

This may be overstated and melodramatic, but it raises some very valid points.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20081208_hedges_best_brightest/
The Best and the Brightest Led America Off a Cliff
Posted on Dec 8, 2008
By Chris Hedges

[HuckleB]

38. Uh, none of them know anything about science.

Isn't that interesting?

[hobbit709]

48. Yeah. An MBA qualifies you to discuss scientific matters.

Next you'll have someone with a BA designing bridges.

[Odin2005]

15. Go straight to HELL, Bachmann.

How long before Jenny McCarthy endorses her?

[RegieRocker]

18. This is the A typical kind of reaction right wingers have.

Hpv is a vaccine for sex not diptheria. BIG difference. I also feel that this should be between parents and their daughters.

[astral]

19. We are arguing two different points here.

Michelle Bachman is talking about the MANDATORY Gardisil vaccine. The article goes on to talk about the vaccine + autism link, saying "sounds a lot like" it.

What are you railing on Michelle Bachman over? Should all girls be FORCED get the Gardisil vaccine KNOWN to cause death, which is a worse side effect than whatever VD the vaccine protects them from getting should they ever be exposed to it? Are you mad at Michelle Bachman for being against this?

Or, do you prefer to argue the whole 'anti vaccine wingnuts' debate over this, which is not what she was even talking about. WHO KNOWS how she feels about all vaccines in general, she may not even be one of your 'anti vaccine wingnuts.'

While I am not crazy about everyone opposed to vaccines being labeled a wingnut, still I come here to read.

I know there are only two sides to any issue here, the Right side and the WRONG side.

[proverbialwisdom]

22. What a breath of fresh air. Thank you for your clarity. NFM.

[Marrah_G]

24. Who died from taking Gardasil?

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marrah_G]

27. Also... a small percentage of people taking any drug can have bad reactions.

The top two types of bacterial anti-biotics have devastating effects on my body. One had an almost paralyzing effect and the other put me in anaphalactic (sp?) shock. I would still recommend them to anyone since my reactions are very rare.

[RegieRocker]

28. But it would be their choice......

[HuckleB]

32. You do understand that not one death has been able to be blamed on the HPV vaccine, right?

If not, hello? Is anyone home?

[RegieRocker]

34. Here we go same ol same ol

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/update-foia-uncovers-16-new-gardasil-related-deaths

[HuckleB]

36. And repeating the same VAERS nonsense proves what?

OH, yeah, that's right.

Nothing.

Oh, except that those who try to use VAERS to show that vaccines are causing X, don't understand the first thing about science, causation, correlation or VAERS.

[RegieRocker]

40. You don't have the chutzpah to these folks that their believing

what caused their daughter to die is nothing.

“Merck said in its VAERS report that a physician reported that my daughter had an enlarged spleen caused by a virus that was life threatening,” Tarsell told The Examiner. “That was totally made up. The autopsy report listed the cause of her death as ‘undetermined,’ a followup by CDC found no evidence of a viral infection, and the pathologist and her doctors all denied telling them that.”

Your crass nature about peoples concerns in regards to their children's welfare is so liberal.
Get your own child vaccinated then you don't have tip worry about mine.
Now put your lips back on the derrieres of the pharmaceutical companies.

[HuckleB]

41. Your bizarre posts do not do anything to serve these people.

They only serve to show that you do not understand the first thing about science.

Further, your last couple of lines show that you don't know anything about vaccines, or any other preventive measure.

And your last line is just pure ad hominem silliness.

If that's what you're offering, then I'm guessing you are actually working to promote disease and death.

Is that right? Really?

[RegieRocker]

50. The thing you need to know about medical science is that and I quote

"Medicine us not an exact science". It is you who doesn't understand. Pray tell what gardasil is for then if it's not to prevent the acquiring the disease. You live an illusion.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,866058,00.html

[HuckleB]

51. I'm quite aware of that.

However, it's better than anything else we've got. It's certainly better than the propaganda you've been pushing in order to promote disease.

[RegieRocker]

54. Way off target. The article stated "death undetermined".

It should be halted until it's thoroughly researched and determined in all cases. Like I have stated "this is not a dtp shot" this is a vaccine for a sexually transmitted disease. Those types of vaccines should be up to the individual. The crazy "you are against all vaccines" is more of the radical crap being slung on both sides.

[HuckleB]

55. In other words, you continue to fail to understand any of this.

You have one highly questionable article, with highly questionable motives, using VAERS to push an agenda. Further, you fail to understand basic biology, and choose to ignore the reality that this vaccine has been studied in massive numbers of people. It's clear that you do not understand the concept of background noise. If you give something to tens of millions of people, some of those people will die afterwards, because some of them would have died afterwards even if they were not given the vaccine. That means you must see a difference, an increase in a problem with those who took the vaccine compared to those who did not. That has not been noted in any way, shape or form. This single case does not do that. If the vaccine had caused the death, an autopsy would not be inconclusive, btw.

In other words, please learn some basic science before you continue to push blind faith attacks on something that is safe and effective, and can actually save lives.

This link is a start, though it's hardly enough: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/causation-and-hills-criteria/

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HuckleB]

60. Unfortunately, lots of children live with dead children.

It sucks.

But the crap you're pushing is aimed at making even more parents live with dead children.

[RegieRocker]

25. It's getting so that I'm unable to see the difference between the

left and right mental state of mind.

[HuckleB]

33. Yup. Anti-vaccine nuts are all across the political spectrum.

It's odd. One would think that Democrats would focus on understanding science. Alas...

[RegieRocker]

35. Yep same with pro vaccinate for everything without consent nuts.

Is the next agenda to require adults to get 250 vaccinations a year like I did in the service? HPV is a sex disease and that is up to the parents and the child when and if to get vaccinated. Isn't the vaccine to prevent getting the disease? Get your own 12 yr old daughter vaccinated but don't force mine to do so. Then your daughter will be protected.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/update-foia-uncovers-16-new-gardasil-related-deaths

[HuckleB]

37. And you post the same VAERS link how many times?

Uh, that's quite interesting. Although it shows that you have nothing to offer this discussion.

And your red herring nonsense only makes that all the more clear.

Now, why are you ignoring the reality of this safe and effective vaccine?
http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2011/06/17/how-safe-is-the-hpv-vaccine-new-data-available/

Do you want people to die? If not, why are you pushing the nonsense you are pushing? Or do you really not understand this? And, if you don't, why would you pretend to understand it?

[RegieRocker]

53. People should have a choice to decide what is the greater risk with

Gardasil. Once again it's not a dtp shot. It's a shot for sex. Your lackadaisical attitude to the situation and the fact you want to force a sex vaccine on young kids putts you right in line with Perry. I on the other hand believe in freedom and your nonsense isn't it.

[HuckleB]

56. And now you're going off with a red herring, since your other blind attacks proved fruitless.

Interesting.

When have I promoted HPV vaccines being mandatory?

Oh, that's right. I haven't. You just made it up.

[RegieRocker]

57. If you're not that is good. That was my point in my post.

That is shouldn't be mandatory.

[HuckleB]

61. Your post had no point.

[RegieRocker]

68. You're just another scientist worshiper.

[HuckleB]

70. Ah, the "you're a science worshipper" ad hominem.

Yeah, that proves, uh, well it continues to prove that you don't give a crap about anything but your preconceived notions, and you will go to any length to keep believing them. That's quite a bizarre world you've created for yourself.

BTW, do you have any clue how ridiculous it is to claim that someone "worships science?"

:rofl:

[RegieRocker]

71. No that would be you. More diatribe. I have no preconcieved

notions only collected facts that the government, msm, scientists, doctors etc. lie, either due to their inflated ego, greed or controlling motives. It's called reality. Continue living in your illusion and question nothing. Keep those blinders on. Suck up to the MSM tit.

[HuckleB]

74. You've offered nothing but preconceived notions, with only the worst "evidence" to support them.

Meanwhile, you choose to ignore the vast evidence against your preconceived notions.

Try again.

[RegieRocker]

78. This is you "that is a red herring" why? Nothing.

Why do you continue to post propaganda from the sources of our discussion and think that it has merritt? Everything I post is third party material yours however is first party. Completely biased and untrustworthy. A criminal never admits to their guilt.

[HuckleB]

80. The sources are quite valid.

I've actually shown that the sources you use were pushing dishonest or ignorant nonsense. The sources I use, if you actually bothered to look into them, are quite honest, critical, and self-correcting. Somehow you find that to be a problem? :rofl:

You seem to think that you can invent nonsense and make claims sans evidence.

The world doesn't work that way. Your claims in this post are just angry baloney. We both know it.

[RegieRocker]

88. They are not valid. Paid shills. Only believable if you think

the "Fox guarding the hen house is a good idea"
:rofl:

[HuckleB]

91. Uh, paid by whom?

Your BS claim. You prove it. Further, you prove that the actual content is affected by whatever nonsense you think you can find.

If you can't do that, well, your claim is baseless

Of course, we both know that your claim is baseless, as it is. Have you ever considered exploring basic ethics?

[HuckleB]

94. I'm still waiting for you to prove your claims!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1iAtoX9DKk

:rofl:

[RegieRocker]

98. If this doesn't help you to understand a small part of the problem

them you wish to remain unaware. Any response other than acknowledgment will be regarded as meaningless.
http://m.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/8269/

[HuckleB]

100. I already pointed out to you that that piece is a great example of a journalist...

... who doesn't understand science trying to write about science.

I also gave several links that show why this piece is drivel. And now you repost it?

That is just bizarre.

http://arcade.stanford.edu/medical-research-and-myth-of-scientific-truth

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/lies-damned-lies-and-science-based-medicine/

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/a-post-modernist-response-to-science-based-medicine/

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/teaching/misconceptions.php

BTW, I'm still waiting for you to prove your claims!

[HuckleB]

102. .

Do you have any other repeated anti-science posts to offer?

[HuckleB]

63. Oh, and you're clearly pushing misinformation, and it's not about anything being mandatory or not.

[HuckleB]

64. Oh, and you're clearly pushing misinformation, and it's not about anything being mandatory or not.

[HuckleB]

65. Oh, and you're clearly pushing misinformation, and it's not about anything being mandatory or not.

[LeftishBrit]

101. It is *not* a 'sex vaccine'; it is a vaccine against a virus

And the reason for giving it to young girls is because once you are older and have been exposed to the virus, the vaccine is less effective.

I don't think it should be mandatory; I think it should be free and encouraged.

But even if you don't like the vaccine, why is the fact that HPV is sexually transmitted relevant? If a vaccine was developed against HIV, would you use the same argument?

[jberryhill]

43. If it isn't mandated insurance won't pay

Grow a clue. That's why it is mandated with an opt-out, so that those who are barely hanging on but have health insurance can get it.

[Marrah_G]

23. Ummm is it possible for someone to just become mentally retarded at age 12?

I think she just blurts out whatever lies pop into her stupid little brain.

[NMMNG]

39. She's a wingnut in every way

Once again the RRRW is finding that their bogus claims of "morality" aren't working ("Guardasil will turn girls into raving sluts!1!1") so they're resorting to fake science ("Guardasil will give your children developmental disabilities!1!1"). They're an utter menace to society.

[astral]

42. It is the "mandatory" part that is the problem.

If parents want to give their young girls the Gardasil vaccine after understanding the risks, I think it is a crying shame but they can do so. It looks to me like the chances of having a serious side effect from the shot are much higher than coming up with the right STD that this vaccine can protect the kid from, whereas the STD is probably not DEADLY, and probably is CUREABLE -- like, 'after-the-fact.'

But FORCING parents to make that decision is another thing entirely.

I think plenty of young girls get through their life without contracting STD's. There are a lot of choices to be made besides whether or not to get this shot in avoiding catching diseases.

But the biggest crying shame, really, is accidental pregnancy, don't you think?

[jberryhill]

44. A lot of insurance won't cover elective medications

There is an opt out.

If it isn't mandatory, a lot of people can't afford it who want it.

If it is mandatory, it qualifies for a lot of insurance programs that wouldn't otherwise cover it.

Do you bother to look into the reasons for things?

[HuckleB]

47. I don't think that individual wants anyone to get the vaccine.

But I suppose her/him's prior postings could be considered a youthful indiscretion.

:rofl:

[HuckleB]

46. Really?

Is that really your only problem with the HPV vaccine?

[snooper2]

49. What I take away from this thread is...

There are a number of folks on DU who have some common beliefs with Michele Bachmann


Who would'a thought?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[HuckleB]

52. Michelle Bachmann's Anti-Vaccine Statements Cross The Political Pseudoscience Divide

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/09/michelle_bachmanns_anti-vaccine_statement.php

It seems like Democrats would be pro science. Alas, many are not.

:(

[RegieRocker]

59. Yep and there are a number that are corporate (pharmaceutical)

lovers like right wingers.

[HuckleB]

62. Ah, so the baseless ad hominem attack upon those who care about science is all you have?

Wow!

That is a lot like Michelle Bachmann, or whatever her name is.

[RegieRocker]

67. Your post is 100% genuine diatribe.

And here is what is wrong with your thinking.

We could solve much of the wrongness problem, Ioannidis says, if the world simply stopped expecting scientists to be right. That’s because being wrong in science is fine, and even necessary—as long as scientists recognize that they blew it, report their mistake openly instead of disguising it as a success, and then move on to the next thing, until they come up with the very occasional genuine breakthrough. But as long as careers remain contingent on producing a stream of research that’s dressed up to seem more right than it is, scientists will keep delivering exactly that.

You worship scientists and do not question anything. You believe them all to be right. There is no proof Gardasil did not cause these deaths only conjecture that they didn't. You're part of the problem and not the solution.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/8269/?single_page=true

[HuckleB]

69. My post is anything but that.

It is accurate and matter of fact.

You continue to offer nothing but anti-science nonsense, and then using the classic attack that I "worship science" as a defense for you lack of ability to defend your claims. Well, you want to talk about diatribes?

:rofl:

BTW, your article here, is a great example of the problems with journalists who know nothing about science trying to report on science, and thus confusing the public over and over again. It's not much else, however. (Of course, the fact you pushed it forward shows that you don't much about science either, but that has already been shown.)

See:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/lies-damned-lies-and-science-based-medicine/

and

http://arcade.stanford.edu/medical-research-and-myth-of-scientific-truth

[RegieRocker]

72. I have had dealings with doctors (medical science).

You seem unable to retain past knowledge of known claims that were proven false. That caused harm to people. I don't know what is up with you but it is a problem.

* Blood-letting was once proven to be a cure for most illnesses. Now a days blood-letting is considered totally ineffective.



* Margarine was considered much healthier than butter. Research now suggests that the butter is much healthier than margarine.



* Eggs were considered bad to due to high cholestrol. Now it is say that eggs aren't bad at all, and that they are actually healthy for the body.



* Alcohol in all forms has been said to be 100% unhealthy and it shouldn't be consumed. Than a couple of years ago researcher said that red wine was actually healthy for teh heart but not other forms of alcohol. They had also added that all alcohol in moderation has healthy benefits to them.



* Chocolate and oily foods was said to be one reason for acne. Now researchers say that they don't contribute to acne in any way.



* Homosexuality was once classified as a disease.



* Medical doctors thought that baby formula was much better than breast milk for children. Now doctors say the exact opposite is said to be true.



* Milk was once recommended for coating the stomach and it would help alleviate stomach ulcers. Now the thought of milk is discouraged and has been found to actually agravate ulcers.



* Diet had absolutely no effect on diseases or illnesses. Now people are being told that diets have a huge effect on the prevention and causes of diseases and illnesses.



* Medical science once had evidence that when a person removed their tonsils and appendix it improved their health and it was said that it should be done to about everyone. But now the medical community has actually reversed that thought and idea.



* Children with asthma were actually told to stay in enclosed pool areas because the humidity was good for their asthmatic condition. Now a days researchers suggests that the chlorine in the air from the pools aggravates and make the asthma in the children with the condition much worse.



* The most obvious is the example of all the thousands of drugs that have been proven and approved by the FDA because they were proven to cure or even prevent certain kinds of diseases and they were said to be safe for people. Later as the years went by those same drugs that the FDA approved were actually taken off the shelves because it was proven that they actually didn't cure or prevent those diseases that they were fighting as the FDA thought. Another reason why they were taken off the shelf was because it was found that the drugs were actually more dangerous to a person than if they took it.



* A low calorie diet was said to be the only way to lose weight. When the actually fact is that it's not the calories but the amount of fat that a person eats that will determine a persons' weight. But still the new rage is that it's not the calories or the fat but it's the carbohydrates that cause obesity.


For you, what you believe are lies. You need the MSM to tell you so. I know your type.

I wait for some more blathering from you.

[HuckleB]

75. You seem to think that a list of red herrings justifies ignoring the science in front of you.

(Which is extremely, and it shows that you chose to ignore the links I offered. If you hadn't, you would know why this last response of yours is just old-school silliness, which is used to defend the worst pseudo-science around on a regular basis.) Even when many of those red herrings are inaccurate. It's quite interesting that you try to convince yourself that you're not justifying your preconceived notions, yet you go to extreme lengths of mistaken thought processes to justify your preconceived notions, all the while ignoring the logic and evidence presented to you.

That's not logical. It's exactly what led to bad beliefs in the past.

Try again.

This resource might help, if you'd let go of your automatic defense mechanisms.

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/teaching/misconceptions.php

[HuckleB]

76. Corrected response.

You seem to think that a list of red herrings justifies ignoring the science in front of you.

(Which is extremely odd, to say the least, and it shows that you chose to ignore the links I offered. If you hadn't, you would know why this last response of yours is just old-school silliness, which is used to defend the worst pseudo-science around on a regular basis.)

Further, many of those red herrings are inaccurate fictions of pop pseudo-science fame. It's quite interesting that you try to convince yourself that you're not justifying your preconceived notions, yet you go to extreme lengths using mistaken thought processes to justify your preconceived notions, all the while ignoring the logic and evidence presented to you.

Such pseudo-scientific meanderings are exactly what led to bad beliefs in the past.

Try again.

This resource might help, if you'd let go of your automatic defense mechanisms.

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/teaching/misconceptions.php

[RegieRocker]

77. Prove that the list is false. Every single item.

If unable to do so then why continue to blather on? You have nothing.

[HuckleB]

79. And yet again, you ignore basic science.

It's your list. Prove that the items are correct. Then prove that your list has any purpose to anyone who actually understands science.

How many more logical fallacies are you going to offer up in defense of the fantasy world you've created for yourself?

Thanks for the laugh, though!

[RegieRocker]

81. Roflmao what a crock. You can't contest this list. You have nothing.

So post more empty nothing. It will still and always be nothing.

[HuckleB]

82. Yes, your claims are empty.

Interesting that you fail to see how badly you've failed. All you've done is prove, over and over again, that you don't understand science. I've given you leads to help you, but you don't seem to care much about increasing your own knowledge. Well, I'll give you some more, just because I have to have hope in my fellow human beings.

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/reporting-preliminary-studies/

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/are-most-medical-studies-wrong/

[RegieRocker]

84. It really fascinating how you ignore truth that discounts

your science worshiping. Truth that shows science for what it really is. Human science with all the imperfections of it's masters.

[HuckleB]

86. I'm not ignoring anything.

You would know that, if you actually bothered to read what I've posted to you.

On the other hand, man are you ignoring a whole lot, as your choice to ignore what I've posted to you indicates.

Your preconceived notions are more valuable to you than discovery. That's really sad.

[RegieRocker]

89. Keep telling yourself that youre not ignoring anything

over and over again. It is obviously working for you. What is sad is that you can't contest anything on the list but you continue to ignore the truth. Science is imperfect, opinionated and often found to be a lie.

[HuckleB]

90. Oh, wow.

Thanks for proving, yet again, that you don't pay attention to anything others write to you, and show to you.

:wow:

[RegieRocker]

95. Right back at ya.

[HuckleB]

96. The problem with that "right back at ya" is that I've answered all your nonsense.

You failed to read and understand those answers. That doesn't mean we're in the same boat.

Try again. Oh, and when will you prove your many failed claims above?

[RegieRocker]

97. When asked a specific question and then giving a statement is not

giving an answer. So once again prove any on the list are false. One by one. Keep mind focused on task at hand.

[HuckleB]

99. Oh, goodness, that's funny.

You still don't get it. You made those claims, and you can't prove one of them is accurate. Further, even if true, those claims prove nothing but your own ignorance of science. I've given the reality of that repeatedly. Yet you still obsess about your little list of claims.

You've failed and failed and failed. The evidence is clear. You can make all the baseless claims you want to make about me, but it doesn't make them any less baseless.

[xchrom]

73. some how -- you just don't expect to see this much anti-science horse crap on DU.

mandatory vaccines have an opt out.

insurance won't cover many elective processes -- like an elective vaccine like gardisil.

that particular vaccine is safe and effective -- you don't have to like that fact -- but that is the fact.

[HuckleB]

83. +1

[Warren DeMontague]

87. you don't? I do.

Jesus. Remember the moon bombing threads?