Is it really okay to refuse an invitation from the President?

[DaveinJapan]

I suppose this is not unprecedented, but for a patriotic citizen or public servant, is it really acceptable to refuse an invitation to join the President for a function or a meeting?

Have citizens or representatives from the Democratic Party done so in the past, refuse an invitation to join a Republican President for whatever reason?

I mean, I know that there are opposing parties and all that, but when the President requests a meeting, should not a patriotic American show up (if reasonably possible)?

I'm really trying to wrap my head around this.

[lonestarnot]

1. Not to go to a fundraising cocktail party and then likely cry about it the next day.

[lame54]

2. Dick Cheney just sent you a invite to go hunting with him...

What do you do?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

5. rich...just rich :-) n/t

[DaveinJapan]

9. lol...I'm imagining that scene from Donnie Brasco,

the one where Pacino tucks away all his valuables and says goodbye to his wife for the last time. :p

[obxhead]

13. Load his shotgun with blanks and keep the whole day on camera. nt

[MedicalAdmin]

23. Buy a flak jacket and a protective helmet.

And then show up with a video recorder for the upcoming liability court case.

but I'd show up, if the old crook was still in office. If I got the invite today ... yah, I would probably still go.

[Zephie]

29. Cheney isn't the president, thank Gods!

And I genuinely doubt he ever will be. Now THAT is a nightmare. *shudders*

[ProdigalJunkMail]

3. what does patriotism have to do with it?

i probably would not go to meet with the President unless he/she needed my help with something.

sP

[Statistical]

4. Of course it is ok. He is an elected official not the King.

He works for the people.

Boner is still and idiot however I hope we never live a in a country where one can't decline an invitation from the President. If you can't say no then it really isn't an invitation.

[MedicalAdmin]

24. The question really isn't can he, but should he.

It's a matter of protocol and less that of rights.

Nice red herring by the way. No one (except you) ever mentioned living in a country where one can't decline an invite. But hey, if you really think you can't be rounded up under the patriot act at any time for any reason without due process, who am I to burst your bubble?

[Statistical]

27. Let me clarify. He SHOULD be able to decline an invitation by the President (any President).

If Bush invited you on AirForce One would you feel like you shouldn't decline?

Of course not.

That being said I did point out that Boner showed his true colors by going to a fund raiser instead of a national memorial.

Boner is a boner but it isn't because he declined an invitation.

[MedicalAdmin]

35. It must be hard to Boner to overcome his genetic disposition ...

... for assholic behavior. And just think about the effect bathing in Tang (or whatever he does to get himself to look dayglow orange) has on his genetic triggers.

It's kinda sad, or it would be if he weren't speaker of the house.




Yah - if I was invited by the POTUS, VP, member of the cabinet, senator, etc. to talk/fly/shoot/advise/whatever I would show up. It's not about rights, but rather about service IMHO.

Interesting reading your comments today. You and I agree on the right, but I do think that slowing down the purchasing of firearms and restricting the sales of certain kinds is a good idea. On that, I suspect, disagree.

[Statistical]

36. Slowing down we disagree on. Restriction certain types of firearms we agree

although specifically what to restrict and how likely not.

There are significant restrictions on firearms. I think making those restrictions work more effectively rather than restricting more types is the most effective route.

Slowing down firearms sales (waiting periods) has never been shown to be effective at anything so that is not something I will support.

[MedicalAdmin]

38. Ok - good to know.

This is obviously a subject that you have given a lot of consideration to.

Regarding waiting periods, what I would like to see would be that everyone has one (including gun shows) so that a thorough background check can be run in order to weed out the obvious non owners (violent felons - obviously escaped nutjobs - etc). But beyond that I don't think waiting periods need to be overly long. But some kind of checking is needed. Or is it? And if not, then why not?

What are your suggestions on the restrictions of the type of firearms? And given how easy it is to modify many guns, do we also restrict the sale of mod kits?

FYI - I am considered an expert shot with a sniper rifle - 1 inch groupings at 800 yards with about 99% accuracy. Many are better but I hold my own. I just dont see a reason to be packing heat unless... ah crap. I look forward to your thoughts.

[Statistical]

43. Background check is instant.

Some info on the existing restrictions on RKBA.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=192092&mesg_id=196302

As far as waiting period. The NICS can return a result in 99% of cases instantly. If a status of authorized is returned there is no need for a waiting period. I see no reason for that to be changed. If a status of denied is returned no waiting period is needed, in a mistake the person must appeal. For a few cases NICS will be unable to return an instant decision (very rare) in which case a 3 day waiting period already exists to allow FBI to conduct manual investigation.

[MedicalAdmin]

44. Food for thought and a thank you.

Time to go feed my mind.

Cheers.

[WinkyDink]

33. Sure, Boehner had the right; but he played it wrong.

[cherokeeprogressive]

45. Zactly.

[Myrina]

6. Sure, but Oompa Loompa Man showed his ass in doing so ..

n/t

[blondeatlast]

7. Morality wise--a really bad move on Boehner's part. PR-wise, even worse--Gifford is his colleague. n

[nc4bo]

8. To put it bluntly, it makes the refuser look very bad

which would lead to the next question any humanbeing would ask and that would be "what was the reason for his refusal and absence from the event?".

Death in the family? Some other emergency that required his presence. Nope, it was just a partisan fund raiser.

He should be very ashamed of himself and he should be called out on it.

[justiceischeap]

10. Sure it's okay, we don't live in a dictatorship. However, for appearances sake, it's never

a good idea to turn your nose up at the President. I know Obama was all like don't point fingers last night, but I'm gonna. If we had a Republican president and a Dem did what Boehner did yesterday, we'd never hear the end of it. Instead, I suspect, (R)'s are silently smirking and patting Boehner on the back for "snubbing" the President and the memorial. I think this says a lot about what we'll see over the next two years though.

He tried saving face by having an aide report that he'd leave the party to watch the President's remarks on TV.

[bullwinkle428]

11. Sick kid in the hospital? YES. Fundraising cocktail party? HELL NO YOU DON'T.

[Ichingcarpenter]

12. I once refused an Invitation from the President

of Hair Club for Men..... He invited me to join on TV and I refused.

The New Speaker missed a chance to show solidarity over this tragedy
but I heard he didn't go because Air Force One didn't have his favorite Drink.

[MedicalAdmin]

26. What's his favorite drink? Tang?

[DCKit]

14. Boner's channeling Shirley Sherrod. nt

[gkhouston]

15. Boehner's refusal wasn't unpatriotic, but it did come off as petty. Dumb move. n/t

[Little Star]

16. Boehner is the speaker of The House, is he not? .....

He should have shown leadership. It was, after all, an attempted assassination on a house member and a actual killing of a federal judge.

His poor judgment speaks volumes about him, his leadership and to a lesser degree his party.

[closeupready]

17. For Boehner? No. But generally? Yeah, why not, I wouldn't, but

Oprah did, Jessica Simpson did, lots of people have turned down meeting the President.

[somone]

18. It is a free country

supposedly anyway

[LuvNewcastle]

19. I'm not sure that Obama "invited" Boehner

to the event. Since Boehner is the Speaker and one of his fellow House members was almost killed, I think the President and many others in Washington were expecting him to go. It just looks to me like Obama offered Boehner a ride so that he wouldn't have to make his own arrangements for travel. After Boehner tuned down the President's offer, he couldn't make his own arrangements and go to the memorial without looking like he was giving the President the middle finger. So he chose to attend a cocktail party instead. It would have lookded better if Boener had stayed home and played sick.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

20. Of course. It may be a calculated insult, but there's nothing wrong with insulting the president

I don't for a minute buy the "respect due to the office, even if not to the holder" thing.

One of the reasons I approve of Britain's ceremonial monarchy is that the person who holds an office which some people feel respect is due to is purely ceremonial and symbolic and holds no power, so there's never any pressing need to oppose or be rude to them (not to say there's anything wrong with doing so, but it's not important or necessary in the way that being rude to a politician sometimes is) while the person who actually runs the country is just a glorified civil servant and is unable to use the "respect due to the office" line to hide behind.

In the US, symbol and functionary are the same person, which can cause problems.

[jtown1123]

21. This really isn't a big deal. These things are planned months in advance.

[JackRiddler]

22. The abstraction of "patriotism" should play no role

I put determinations of moral right and wrong infinitely far above whatever the word "patriotism" is supposed to mean (and probably no word is more often or more severely abused and pressed into the service of variable meanings).

Furthermore, the presidency is a contractual arrangement that actually no one asked me (or any other living person) before they set it up back in 1787. It's not some kind of mystic leader I must follow when it calls. Most of the ones I've seen never did anything to earn my respect or allegiance.

So of course "YOU" have every right to refuse the president, and no necessary judgement should follow on you. I would not have refused, not even the most obvious criminals of the lot, Nixon and the two Bushes, but I would have used such an unlikely invitation as a serendipitous opportunity to plainly and peaceably speak my mind (in words).

However, if the YOU in question happens to be the one in 300 million citizens currently occupying the office of Speaker of the House, it's a different matter. In that case, you really have to justify why you're not taking up the invitation from the elected official of another branch of government to pursue dialogue on issues of the day.

In other words, there is no comparison between a generic "you" and the Speaker.

.

[Toucano]

25. Hogwash!

There's no obligation, patriotic or otherwise, to accept an invitation from the POTUS.

Stephen Sondheim refused the National Medal of Arts when presented by Bush Sr. but accepted it 5 years later when presented by President Clinton. He was making a statement about censorship of the NEA.

Perhaps it will be easier to "...wrap your head around this" if you first pull it out of the its current partisan lodging.

[MedicalAdmin]

28. Good points.

But I would go. Just sayin'.

[coalition_unwilling]

41. The poet Robert Lowell refused LBJ's invitation to the White House

for some cultural awards ceremony to protest the war in Vietnam . . . in 1965 when it was still a blip on most people's radar screens in the U.S. Lowell's refusal has always struck me as a very courageous act.

[Toucano]

42. Exactly. It can be an act of courage or an act of douche-ery.

When there's no particular principle involved, like Speaker Cries A Lot, it's douche-ery.

[cherish44]

30. His absence makes him look like kind of a jerk

Considering one of the members of the governing body he presides over got a bullet to her head and 6 other innocent bystanders shot to death in this assassination attempt, yeah he should have rescheduled his little cocktail thing and gone to the service.

[oldhippie]

31. I am a patriotic citizen and I would refuse an invitation to go .....

... anywhere near ANY president. Each time Bush, Cheney and Obama came to West Fort Hood they shut down the entire post. Hiways and roads were closed and entire buildings vacated by the Secret Service merely because they were in the area. Disrupted our whole day and was a royal PITA.

Besides, the SS would never let me anywhere near any President. I would refuse to be disarmed. So it's moot. If any President really wants to meet with me, he can come to my house under my rules. They aren't kings.

[Rex]

32. Not when you pass on attending the services of a national tragedy for a cocktail party!

:sarcasm:

[KamaAina]

34. Why did Obama invite Orange Julius in the first place?

Bad enough that Pelosi hugged and kissed him (followed, of course, by the inevitable Niagara of tears :cry: ).

[Vinca]

37. It's hard to imagine choosing booze and a party over the POTUS and Air Force One.

[Hello_Kitty]

39. You can certainly refuse but it's a dick move. eom

[librechik]

40. Boner did it twice so far. Some Presidents you don't have to respect

apparently. Meanwhile, Bush Jr habitually boarded Airforce 1 using only a ladder of kneeling Republican Senators piled up on each other, each of whom had to kiss the President's foot as it rested on their shoulders. Seriously.

But Boner can stiff arm "that one" anytime he wants. Obama's not "his" president.

[MilesColtrane]

46. It's not only OK to refuse an invitation from the President, it's OK to tell him to fuck off.

That's a fundamental right enshrined in our founding document.

[jobycom]

47. Nick Saban did it.

He was the coach of LSU in Baton Rouge, then briefly of the Miami Dolphins. While in Miami, Bush invited him and several of the Dolphin bigwigs to lunch or dinner, probably because of some donation by the owner, I would guess. Nick Saban no-showed, and claimed afterward he had already made plans--obviously a pretty slim excuse for turning down the President.

Might help to understand that this wasn't long after Katrina, and Saban, as I said, was in Baton Rouge around that time.