Katrina In Vermont

[phantom power]

This is nowhere near Katrina's death toll of over 1800 souls, but the damage to scores of towns, businesses, houses, and basic civic armature is going to be very impressive as the news filters in later this week and the disaster is still very much ongoing Monday, even with the sun shining bright. Towns all over Vermont and New Hampshire are still drowning. The Hudson River is still on the rise. The Mohawk River is at a 500-year flood stage and is about to wipe the old city center of Schenectady, New York, off the map. Bridges, dams, and roads are gone over a region at least as big as the Gulf Coast splatter-trail of Katrina.

That story is still developing. A lot of people will not be able to get around for a long, long time, especially in Vermont and New Hampshire, where the rugged terrain only allows for a few major roads that go anywhere. Even the bridges that were not entirely washed away may have to be inspected before people are allowed to drive over them, and some of these bridges may be structurally shot even if they look superficially okay. There are a lot of them. If you live in a flat state, you may have no idea.

The next story is going to be the realization that there's no money to put it all back together the way it was. The states don't have the money. The federal government is obviously broke, and an awful lot of the individual households and businesses will turn out to not have any insurance coverage for this kind of disaster where it was water, not wind, that destroyed the property. I don't know what the score is insurance-wise along the mid-Atlantic beachfront towns - but remember, insurance companies were among the biggest dupes of the Big Bank mortgage-backed securities racket, and when the new claims are toted up they may find themselves in a bail-out line.

This is a warning to America that the converging catastrophes of climate change, energy scarcities, and failures of capital formation add up to more than the sum of their parts in their power to drive a complex society into a ditch - no matter what a moron like Rick Perry might say. But, of course, political ramifications will follow. There will be a lot of pissed-off people in the Northeast USA. Maybe they'll even start giving the grievance-bloated folk of Dixieland some competition in the politics of the bitter harvest. Oddly, the Siamese twin states of Vermont and New Hampshire are political polar opposites. Vermont, the land of Ben and Jerry's ice cream, and other squooshy culture tropes from the attic of Hippiedom, is about as Left-progressive as it gets. New Hampshire's license plate says, "Live Free or Die," and that same draconian mood defines the state's politics: hard Right. It's like a few counties of Georgia shook loose and drifted north somehow. My guess is that the political rage will be about equal on both fronts, as folks are left stranded, or homeless, or without a going business they thought they had only a day or so ago. And my further guess is that their mood will afford some insight into the extreme impotence, incompetence, and mendacity of both major political parties. As I've said before in this space, think of these times as not unlike the convulsive 1850s, preceding the worst crisis of our history.

http://kunstler.com/blog/2011/08/katrina-in-vermont.html

[villager]

1. Now who the hell would do a drive-by unrec of this on DU?

What motivation would there be?

Other than outright mole-or-troll-ism, that is...

[meegbear]

6. They probably saw the title and assumed it meant ...

"Irene is Obama's Katrina", the supposed meme du jour.

[Cherchez la Femme]

34. I haven't heard of anyone calling Hurricane Irene as equivaliet

to Bushes Katrina, but I've been offline since Saturday due to it.

It this known at all? A medium meme? A big meme?

But shooooot.... you know our "LIbrul Media" will try to spin this negative towards Obama in any
opportunity they can get their grubby little hands on; so I *guess* it is possible...''==

If so, anyone have any Links?

[snooper2]

10. Dude it was like 6 minutes from the post of the OP till you replied

Wait like at least an hour or so so you can get some good numbers. Shit, sit there, continually refresh the screen and keep track. They you could graph it over a 60 minute period, stick in a power point slide and we can see the peaks and valleys :rofl:

[villager]

22. It's a point, to be sure, that the metrics can change. But someone is johnny-on-the-spot

...with those drive-by unrecs, and it's really strange that that becomes the actual "first response" so often here...

[malaise]

2. K & R

This needs to reach the greatest page

[Lost-in-FL]

3. Although Vermont is in a serious predicament...

I would not write an opinion piece referring to their tragedy as a "Katrina". This only undermines the suffering from the sum of all the catastrophic events (from loss of life and property, abandonment, politics, criminal negligence, and crude racism, etc,) during that day. Then... This is my opinion.

[NightWatcher]

4. It was like the Holocaust in my aquarium ... 3 of my 4 goldfish died

In Katrina, the Feds ignored an entire city and left them to die for nearly a week. Decisions were also made in NOLA to flood some (poor) neighborhoods in order to save some (white) neighborhoods by destroying certain levees.

Irene may be bad, but she's no Katrina.

[KamaAina]

26. Exactly which levees were destroyed on purpose during Katrina?

That has been a popular urban legend, particularly in the Lower Ninth Ward. And it has the ring of truth, because such decisions really were made in the 1920s. But the Ninth Ward levees -- as well as those of neighboring, largely white St. Bernard Parish -- were actually overtopped by storm surge coming straight up the ill-designed Mississippi River Gulf Outlet (Mr. Go) canal.

[sarge43]

8. Thank you

When it's reported that cops shot and killed people trying to leave town or nursing home patients were abandoned by the authorities to die horribly, then a comparison may be valid.

Almost forgot, when a member of the president's family implies the rescued victims never had it so good ....

[NightWatcher]

11. Where's the Vermont Superdome?

[Lost-in-FL]

12. That's right. nt

[The Wielding Truth]

13. I agree with you. This should not be equated with Katrina.This just shows

-again- that Republicans are unable to help in a public disaster or have any ability to conduct a competent governmental function that benefits the common citizens of the US. They are proving that they wish to destroy our democracy and the middle class as much as ever.

The reality of the destructive actions and lack of constructive actions by the Republican party is blatant and inexcusable.Tearing this country apart in not patriotic!


Tearing/causing continued or repeated pain or distress.

[Lost-in-FL]

15. The comparison is borderline offensive if you ask me.

You cannot compare the trauma and the devastation, both physical and social, that occurred in New Orleans and parts of Mississippi after a category 5 hurricane under a racist and extremely incompetent administration -to- Vermont/New Hampshire 2011. I think it is shameful that in order to attract readers, one can make such a preposterous comparison.

[david_vincent]

14. Agreed, and I live in VT

Yes, the damage is major and widespread, and involves infrastructure that will take years, in some cases decades, to replace (since it took many decades for it all to be built in the first place). Still, this doesn't compare to Katrina.

[GliderGuider]

23. Hmm. Other DUers have a different opinion

While I have reliable Internet access...a resounding "bite me" >

[Lost-in-FL]

24. What part of "Irene is not Katrina" you do not understand?

Irene is "really bad" not only in Vermont but the Carolinas, NH, etc. ... however "Katrina" and the Japan earthquake/Tsunami/Nuclear accident were catastrophic.


I feel for that person. I know how it is to be incommunicated because of having no roads to travel, no electricity and no potable water. Been there, done that. It is not fun at all... it is pure misery.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. For the people who lost all, or worst, lost relatives

this is a life changing event.

I learned a long time ago not to diminish that.

Yes, the stats are not the same (thankfully)... but it is not a walk in the park either. The damage to the infrastructure in VT and NJ are quire impressive... and yes... to some areas, catastrophic.

[Lost-in-FL]

36. My intention is not to diminish Irene's effects

I certainly did not do that pointing out the tragedy during Katrina in a social level. As bad as the situation in Vermont is it cannot be compared to Katrina. Yes, I know those now living through post-hurricane misery, their suffering might be similar to those who lost everything then but at least they know they won't be abandoned because we all learned from that dark episode.

I am not part of the sophomoric talks diminishing the earthquakes in the East and I am certainly not doing that now. My heart goes out to all those who lost their family and property and hope that recovery takes place soon and w/o delays..

[GliderGuider]

5. Count on Jim to give us the truth without the varnish.

Waking up to the realization of the depth of one's fuckitude is never a pleasant experience.

[Bake]

7. Irene was NOTHING like Katrina.

I lived through Katrina. Irene was a breeze by comparison.

Bake

[GliderGuider]

9. Whereabouts in Vermont do you live? /nt

[Lost-in-FL]

16. At least we know you don't live in either Vermont or New Orleans.

Seriously, think about it.

[GliderGuider]

18. Jim is known for hyperbole. I just shrug and move on to the point of his message.

The core of which appears to be this:

This is a warning to America that the converging catastrophes of climate change, energy scarcities, and failures of capital formation add up to more than the sum of their parts in their power to drive a complex society into a ditch - no matter what a moron like Rick Perry might say.

His invocation of the Sacred Name was a hyperbolic way of saying, "Wake up folks, there is a lot more going down here than a bunch of roads and bridges."

[Lost-in-FL]

20. I got the point of the message which for the most part I agree with...

however, the use of that particular "hyperbole" kills (at least on my part) the good intentions and the whole point of the message. He now sounds like he has disconnected himself from what really happened during Katrina. There is (at least that is how I feel) a certain level of shame and visceral outrage for what happened during Katrina that he failed to convey in his opinion. He only focused on death toll but not the death of empathy and humanity in America. Why? I do not know... maybe he never truly felt what the majority of the progressives in the US felt during Katrina. He is just talking out of his ass, he is being insincere but has to keep his audience interested.

Again, that is my opinion.

[GliderGuider]

21. I understand your reaction.

I'm all safe and cozy north of a largely hurricane-proof border, so my outrage over what happened during Katrina didn't cut as deep or last as long as yours. As well, I caught the Doomer Disease about the same time as Jim did, so I don't react much to that any more either. That allows me to treat Kunstler as the entertainer he is, and not get too bent no matter how outrageous he tries to be.

Have you (and others who feel as you do) emailed him to let him know how you feel?

[Bake]

17. I was in Mississippi for Katrina.

While I sympathize with everyone who was hit by Irene, comparing it to Katrina is a gross exaggeration.

Bake

[GliderGuider]

19. You realize, of course, that he didn't compare Irene to Katrina.

In fact he went out of his way to say Irene wasn't Katrina:

This is nowhere near Katrina's death toll of over 1800 souls, but the damage to scores of towns, businesses, houses, and basic civic armature is going to be very impressive as the news filters in later this week

A lot of people are triggered by Kunstler's style to such an extent that they can't read what he actually writes.

[Bake]

25. The title was Katrina In Vermont.

Whatever he says after that is really irrelevant. He's already made the comparison.

Bake

[Marrah_G]

27. I've been in the dark for 80+ hours

I'm just beginning to see what's been happening up north of here. That's some scary stuff. They had horrible flooding this spring too.

[thewiseguy]

28. Vermont's Katrina? Good god...

[flamingdem]

29. This is so heartbreaking for Vermont, I just returned from there

and learned that people are still digging out from flooding earlier this year.

The sad part is when there is little money to help people whose lives are destroyed.

People rally around but they just went through doing that this year.

They don't deserve this, the people of Vermont work so hard. sigh.

[glowing]

30. You are right about that... They work hard, many hats, and have

a general sense of responsibility for one another. It would be a life lesson to send the people of this country thru VT and allow them to see their spirit, their work, their tradition, their openness for basically small town rural area, and to sit in a town hall meeting. Real life Democracy.

One of my friends literally strapped her baby to her back, went into town, and helped out with cleanup efforts, my sister is 7 mos. pregnant, and doing what she can organizing FoodBank and donation efforts... My mom for the first time in her life has 1 week off.. She's cleaning everything out at her house... she's rather stuck where she is. My dad is up at the mountain doing what he can and running around here and there. My sister's brother in-law is using his equipment to rebuild some of the smaller roads. Everyone is hands-on. Its only a 3 mos really until whatever they have gotten to will be at a stand still because then the snow season starts.. so there is a real push and thought in the back of all their heads to get as much of the tourist areas back on line along with the ski resorts to be able to bring outside money into the state. If roads are impassible, people will go out west to ski, rather than go into VT. AND they need the outside money... They are most likely going to lose out on the fall foliage season.. NO way for tourists to get lost on back dirt roads and take pictures of covered bridges when so many of these back routes will still be impassible for some time to come.

[flamingdem]

33. The bigger picture is the loss from tourism this fall

.. it all adds up to big financial losses since it comes on top of the economic downturn.

Do you live there? I used to live there but I don't quite have the constitution for those winters!
I admire anyone who does. I was just reading that Vermont will be relatively okay with the climate
change picture but now I realize this flooding could happen again. It could become the norm if these
hurricanes are caused by warmer oceans.

[glowing]

37. 18 yrs. I left for college, and now live in FL.. Which is why I know the

state is so F'd up, and that people can have better. I'm a Vermonter. Born in the Mountains. It never leaves you. Its a really unique state. One to surely be proud of.

[flamingdem]

38. My family is there

but I left ... can't handle the winters but I'd like to be there 6 months of the year, I'm working on it but it's not so cheap to live in Burlington for example.

Land and real estate has held up so there aren't that many deals and jobs are scarce. Seems like one has to be entreprenurial and / or offering a service that is needed.

I noticed that one company sells organic Yak meat! It helps to be original and appeal to the flatlanders

[glowing]

40. if only we could grow hemp in this country.. you now Vermonters would

be producing some awesome hemp products.. Shoot the pot's great too.. Haven't smoked a long, long time anyway.. but back in the day, it was great living there during my younger yrs.. LOL

[Waiting For Everyman]

32. Yup, this is going to be bigger than people think.

We don't even know the outline of it yet.

[Roy Rolling]

35. Been through Katrina

The similarities are very close. The worse part about Katrina was being cut off with no power, food, or water for weeks. So far it's been 5 days for Vermont. And though not the same size or scope, it is exactly the same th ing as Katrina but on a smaller scale.

My biggest worry after Katrina was that, if another disaster the size of Katrina hit the U.S., it would bankrupt us. For some, it was a tragedy. But for many, it became a business opportunity to inflate the cost to the government to provide relief for the suffering people.

PRIVATIZE=PROFITIZE

[hedgehog]

39. When we refer to Katrina, are we referring to a large hurricane,

to the results when a large hurricane hit an ill-designed and poorly maintained levee system, or the failure of government at the local, state and federal level to respond to the hurricane? From where I sit, the biggest problem wasn't the hurricane itself, but the lack of government preparedness going back decades and the failure of government during and after the storm. Additional crimes such as the murder of black citizens by white police officers added the final touch.

In terms of confronting the people of New York and Vermont with the consequences of global climate change, I think we can call this their Katrina. The small river valley towns don't have the cultural cachet of New Orleans, but they've been in trouble a long time and this may wipe some of them off the map permanently.