Cozy Beach Avenue, houses destroyed

[nadinbrzezinski]

none was killed, or injured or missing... WHY? ALL THE HYPE.. they LEFT and rode the storm in a safer place.

Thanks for the hype from them local officials.

An example on MSNBC of HYPE that worked.

[Obamanaut]

1. What's with all the 'hype' threads today? And where is Cozy Beach Avenue? nt

[closeupready]

2. Lots of unhappy, unemployed people, I gather.

Typically in a recession, people who are unhappy about their situations take it out generally on everyone else. Ergo, all the 'hype' threads complaining about those who refer to the hype as 'hype'. :D

[kestrel91316]

3. The new RW disrupter meme has been thet Irene was "overhyped"

since it didn't utterly destroy NYC and kill millions.

[closeupready]

4. How is that a RW disrupter meme? 24/7 local news coverage for

a tropical storm is overkill, don't you think? I mean that seriously. The coverage - at least on CBS - was ALL WEEKEND, dropped only in time for 60 Minutes and Big Brother. For a storm that impacted people here - not sure if anyone died in NYC as a direct result - but wasn't 9/11 scale.

[kestrel91316]

6. I didn't see 24/7 coverage by media attention whores, lol, but then I left my tv off.

When I want to know what is going on with the weather, I check websites like Weather Underground.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Well to be honest JIm Cantore can and is at times a

tad over the top... but that is what makes HIM so entertaining... and why even the Weather channel has a promo on him that is rip roaring hilarious.

I can say that about my local yellow slicked morans from the local channels every time we have a winter storm... but you take them with the civil defense info... (And one wishes quietly that they start slipping and sliding)

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. And thanks for the textbook example

if any of those people thought it was hype... we'd be talking people killed.

I am pleased they listened to the hype and left. Ergo it wasn't hyped.

[closeupready]

11. But taking your logic here, why don't they hype all rainstorms, 24/7, every weekend?

After all, if even one life is saved, isn't it worth it? See what I mean?

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. As a former emergency worker I get it

that is all I can say to you.

And you have not been in my town when the local weather men (yes they are all boys) are out and about. They do save lives every winter storm... in spite of all the antics.

Of course I could have been accused of hype when we warned people that we'd not be able to go rescue them in the middle of a flash flood, and that they had to leave. Well they chose NOT TO LISTEN TO MY HYPE... we buried them.

But since it is hype, read the OP... turn everything off... please, protect your ears from the hype.

Which for the record it is a RW talking point...

[Broderick]

66. Not everything is a RW point

It's the profit monsters capitalizing.

[ZombieHorde]

58. If don't like TV news, watch something else, or nothing at all. nt

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ZombieHorde]

68. I don't think I am better than everyone else, I know I am better than everyone else

at Dungeons & Dragons.

Seriously, consider your blood pressure and posting privileges. I'm not worth either of those things.

[malaise]

5. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

It was only 75 houses and only 25 are now uninhabitable.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. And we will have more examples of hype (tm) working

as the days move on.

[Broderick]

10. It's a kind of place the poor can drive by and view

but can't stop. Meanwhile, the poor that were not in harms way pawned what valuables they had, got title loans on vehicles they can't afford to pay back, and spent next months rent money, or had advances done on future pay checks at ridiculous interest rates.

Oh well. I hope the folks living on the coast who know the dangers but don't need breathless reporters selling doom had flood insurance.

[Waiting For Everyman]

14. Link for these assertions?

There were free shelters available and transportation to them. So I assume you're saying that these poor people took these steps so as not to have to be in a shelter with... other poor people.

Yeah, I'll need a link for that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Especially since many of the poor LIVE IN FLOOD ZONES

see the city of DC for example.

[Broderick]

19. That is where FEMA comes in and local governments

and mandatory evac and suggested evacs come in. There are plenty of people that are poor who don't live in flood zones. Most of the people do not live in flood zones. But now they are saddled trying to save their car or find a way to pay rent. I just had an employee unaffected by the "tropical storm" ask me for money so he can make his house payment. Went and bought a generator, stocked up for weeks on food and stuff and he never lost power. I will help him out of course, but he said one really sad thing - "last time". The last time he ever falls for this bullshit, which is sad because next time it might be a real epic storm of the century he decides not to pay attention to.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. And the LOCAL OFFIICIALS THROUGH THEIR MEDIA

told them WHAT WAS A MANDATORY FLOOD ZONE.

Look having done this PROFESSIONALLY I know that people who should evac at times do not... and people who should not at times do.

THAT IS A PERSONAL DECISION.

I do not blame the media for PERSONAL DECISIONS.


Of course if I were two blocks away from a designated mandatory evac zone, UNLESS I was that much more significantly higher I'd leave, since yes we do make mistakes.

[Waiting For Everyman]

24. And those costs were to NOT evacuate, and a guy not in a risk zone,

so that's simply a stupid guy. That is nobody's fault but his own.

This hype about hype is such a bogus argument, it's really obvious.

[Broderick]

17. What assertions??

The parking lot was packed at Titlemax and Loanmax Thursday and Friday. The pawn store owner friend of mine was inundated with people pawning their wares. I had lines down the street for fuel and many stations ran out on Thurday. You can look up the property values there in CT on the coast if you would like but those living in opulence didn't need to spend next months rent checks to prepare and living on the coast they most likely had flood insurance knowing the risks. I doubt a one of them would have stayed home even with the Corporations for Profit driving fear and doom and misery instead of providing public service announcements like they use to offer from the government in the past.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. So the Mayor of NYC issued his warnings to raise the profits of CNN

now that is the weirdest statement I have sene in my life. They mostly carried PUBLIC OFFICIALS issuing civil defense info.

[Broderick]

21. Where did I say anything about the Mayor of NY

who wanted people in low lying areas to "evacuate", not EVERYONE, just certain areas most likely to be affected. I don't stick up for Republicans or former republicans much, but he likely over reacted based on the baseless breathless reporting yet he wanted to avoid those very little areas being flooded. He didn't ask everyone to leave. Many NY's ignored him, anyway and frankly that was his efforts to coverup his being in the tropics vacationing while the city couldn't get snow removed. His beating on unions did him no favors during that real catastrophe. The Republican Governor of New Jersey is going to have to backtrack on the tens of billions claim.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Have you noticed how much flood damage there is in NJ

how about VT, upper state New York New England in General.

I guess if I am not affected it was hype... if I was... OH MY THE WORST THING EVER.

Some of this "overreaction" is lessons learned from Katrina, by the way.

[smokey nj]

28. Inland areas affected by flooding were not included in the storm coverage, though.

The coverage, at least in the NYC area, was centered around the city and the Jersey shore so the folks in the areas that are flooding weren't helped at all by the hype.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. The folks at FEMA warned about the warning

for the SATURATED land... and it was hype, you are right... since they were correct.

I heard that clearly early on in the "hype."

[Broderick]

34. FEMA, NWS, NOAA/NHC did a great job

There used to be government public service announcement airtime that was free and broadcast by the media. Now it's 24/7 breathless hysteria with no public service except fear and panic by profiteers.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. TURN IT OFF... yes it is THAT FRACKING SIMPLE

[smokey nj]

35. The folks in those areas were NOT helped by LOCAL news coverage.

I live in the area and I know first hand what was covered on local news.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. THen COMPLAINT TO YOUR LCOAL NOOZ

and I mean that. Also file a complaint to the FCC... it is one of the requirements for a licence.

[sweetapogee]

44. i don't know...

...anything about hype but the Delaware river at Easton PA crested at 18 feet which is 4 feet below flood level. Hype or no hype, this is on a par with a heavy thunderstorm.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. And willmington vt is under water

None of these things will have the exact same effect over the whole geographic area.

[Broderick]

32. Because the profiteers don't live there

They have their homes on Cozy Beach, and live in luxury in Manhattan.

[Broderick]

31. Tropical storms bring rain

Rain can bring floods. high tides can flood with storm surge and rain. All well below expectations by the breathless corporate profiteers. Even the surge predictions by the NWS was below, but not near as far as the ratings driven hysterical corportists predicted. Cry wolf too many times and nobody will pay attention thus the new adjectives and adverbs used to whip paranoia. The insurance companies know where floods happens. When you buy a house in a flood plane or you have a rental property you are told. Those who live in opulence on the coast know the risks. Some are wired for danger and much of the loss of life was due to surfing the storm, or walking around in high winds or driving through flooded areas. More people lost their life this year in storms in Virginia that brought tornadoes and it caused more property destruction. They will have 75% of everyone back with electricity by Wednesday here. 99% by Friday. This is nothing like Floyd, Isabel, or Bonnie. Not even close. And much more hype by the profiteers that have taken over the weather in this country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Keep on... so your answer is to NOT WARN PEOPLE?

got it///

I mean all the hype causes panic.

Why am I thinking of Katrina?

I am sure glad you have never been in charge of any of these things... and I mean that.

[Broderick]

41. Jumping from A to Z again

You seem to love the profit generated hysteria that devastated the poor more than the storm cost the rich people on Cozy Beach.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Alas eye beholder and all that

what you think was hysteria was a bunch of PUBLIC OFFICIALS, starting with the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES issuing warnings...

Question, what would be your view if they did not do that and yes... thousands died? (THe storm had that potential by the way)... perhaps we need a civil defense system as reliable and as good as the one that exists in Pakistan... yup, THAT'S THE TICKET.

It bothers you so much... turn it off, don't even turn on the local radio and you do NOT need any preparedness... of course with all the necessary sarcasm. But take your TV down to Goodwill, I mean it... and do not come to DU either. You might get some of that hype (tm) anyway. And we all know hype is damn scary.

[Waiting For Everyman]

20. And so if they were pawning stuff, why didn't they go to a free shelter?

Maybe they pawn stuff all the time. Or you can explain it... why would the poor not go to a free shelter instead of raising money that way?

[Broderick]

25. People panic. Want to leave. Want to flee.

Buy generators and such. Who knows what goes through the mind when they have very little money, but they are told they are going to die. Why don't you ask them why they don't go to shelters... The City of New York had shelters to house 500,000 I think I read, but only a few thousand went. Hampton Roads had shelters all over and the average shelter had like 10-20 people in them at best. One was even pet friendly and had several dogs and several cats with about 15 people.

[Waiting For Everyman]

26. That is not the media's fault, that is their own fault.

Their actions are irrational, so how can you blame what they do on the media? The media gave information about free shelters. WTF?

[Broderick]

37. you underestimate the power of

fear and panic driven by the media. It was enough to launch us into a war in Iraq. It was enough to bail out the Wall street and Banksters. It was enough to get people to believe not taxing the rich more would save jobs. Where do you live? LMAO!!!!

I could go on, but you don't get the point because likely you look down at everyone around you maybe.

[Waiting For Everyman]

42. That fear could've impelled them to a FREE shelter.

So how is their cost not to go there ANYONE'S fault but THEIR OWN?

[Waiting For Everyman]

53. ***CRICKETS***

So I'll answer my own question. These "poor people" who had to go into hock to leave town because the media "terrified" them, did not instead go to the FREE SHELTERS because there, they would have to be closer than they wanted to be to... other poor people. Which means, these were Virginia racists. We're wasting our time here on bogus hype puff pieces based on that, WRONGFULLY slinging mud at the media and authorities who HELPED US. Nope, that won't fly with me.

Let me get out my tiny violin for them... these poor people (er racists) traumatized into hock by the big, bad, media. :nopity:

[Waiting For Everyman]

54. Aaaaand still crickets

:rofl:

Wow, interest sure fell off a cliff there, didn't it? Wonder why?

[Broderick]

63. Who is the racist that brought RACE into this

Who the fuck are you???

[Broderick]

65. *** CRICKETS ***

[Waiting For Everyman]

69. You didn't answer the question - why wouldn't poor people go to a free shelter?

Why would they instead, as YOU brought up, go into hock or not pay their rent or spend money that they don't have etc., instead of going to a free shelter? Maybe you have another explanation? You are the one who is concerned about these people you seem to know, and the financial harm the media drove them into. So, it's a simple question. Otherwise there is no point to your crusade against the media's "hype".

(And I don't care what color you are, I didn't specify one.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. Sadly I can since we saw the same behavior at times

You did bring accidentally, a point of why people do. Race does play a role this and where shelters are placed and how accessible they are... or whether there is transportation is highly influenced by race. Our friend probably does not realize that since this is a problem at a policy level, and one tough nut to crack. But many of the people who live in poor areas don't have the same access to shelters... why planning has to include vulnerable populations, and that is a hell of a nut to crack at times.

Now you brought a point that is critical in disaster planing. But our mutual friend will claim I went to the google... we had those conversations for mutual aid for the city I inhabit. The seeds of what we planted 20 years ago did sprout some fruit during the fires, and I will say this again, some fruit.

[Broderick]

62. Racists?

The population of Norfolk is 65% black and I am black. What are you saying? Seriously?

[Broderick]

64. *** CRICKETS ***

I loathe the people that bring RACE to everything and anything and don't answer.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. You do realize of course that many of the poor

that pawned and left, LIVE IN FLOOD ZONES that WERE AFFECTED...

It would have been better if none evacuated the DC areas or Battery Park... :sarcasm:

Yet you raise an important point, alas not for the reason you think... our disaster planning has to include how to help AT RISK populations, and that includes evacuation systems that include CITY (yes evil Guvming) resources.

IF they did not evacuate those areas and people drowned then it would be the howling for NOT doing it.

[Broderick]

27. That's laughable that you think you know that.

Are you from here? Do you talk to people here? Do you know people here, poor people here? LMAO.

It was a boon to the high interest stalkers and a bust on the economy overall. You can try to pretend and know all, but one of your arguments is the opulence of Cozy Beach losing some homes. You really love the corporations that have co-opted our national interests for ratings and profit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Not exactly, they were an EXAMPLE of what happens

when YOU EVACUATE in a timely manner.

You'd be happy if they staid there and died... that is clear.

As to the we need to INCLUDE at risk populations, we do... those include the elderly, the poor and children.

So how exactly are you saying I do not know that we need to do that? It is one of the hardest thing to get through the heads of planners by the way.

[Broderick]

39. People who live in opulence and live on the coast

know the dangers. LOL. PEople need public service information. Not hysteria.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. WHY DID THEY LEAVE?

and would you have gotten your jollies if they staid and drowned?

I think you would.

[Broderick]

43. LMAO

oh boy....

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Waiting For Everyman]

50. That's ok, Nadin, a bunch of rich non-listeners stayed on Hatteras and got stranded there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. I know and now they will EXPECT to be cattered

:-)

We should send some of these folks there.

[marions ghost]

55. NOT the case on Hatteras Island (or Ocracoke)--wrong impression of things

The majority who stayed are permanent residents who have weathered many an Atlantic storm. And a lot of them are not what you would call rich. There are plenty of Hatteras and Ocracoke natives who always remain on those two islands as their families have for generations.

--Like my carpenter friend who is helping his neighbors with evaluation of damage and clean up.

--Like the owners of the many shops and eateries.

--Like the fishermen, charter boat captains, and people in the seafood business.

--Like the schoolteachers and clergy.

The "rich" vacationers for the most part DID leave.

And FYI--ferries run to Ocracoke from the mainland routinely so this is nothing new. It is smart to use the ferries for such a storm aftermath occasion--there are ferry slips on both islands. It's possible that some vacationers who had bookings may be able to keep their dates in the fall if they are willing to go by ferry (once the initial recovery is over). The locals want to make sure that is still possible as their livelihood is tourism.

---------------------------------

Here is a writer from the island, Irene Nolan--"Why we stay in the face of a major hurricane" (8/26/11)

(snip)....

"We stay because it is home.

It is all that most of us have. It’s everything we own. It’s our houses, property, and our businesses. We want to be here to look after our interests and our future.

I have friends in the charter boat business who stay to look after the boats. I have friends who own seafood shops who stay to look after their shops and friends who own galleries and gift shops and book stores who stay for the same reason. I stay partially because my business is publishing the community news on Hatteras and Ocracoke, and it’s harder to do that if you are not here.

Furthermore, as we have learned, if you evacuate, there is no guarantee that you can return to your home, your business, and your life in a timely manner.

We found that out in Hurricane Dennis in 1999, which washed out Highway 12 between Avon and Buxton, and in Hurricane Isabel in 2003, which cut an inlet between Frisco and Hatteras, isolating the lower end of the island." (snip)

http://islandfreepress.org/PivotBlog/pivot/entry.php?id=156#body


------------I hope this will help you understand the Islanders a bit better.

[Waiting For Everyman]

74. Thanks for the info, and I do understand what you're saying.

This point devolved out of post #5 way above. It's less clear because of another that was removed. All of which was due to someone in this thread who keeps grinding an axe which makes no sense.

Anyway from your description, Hatteras sounds a lot like the communities of watermen here in Maryland, who I respect and admire a lot. And yes, I knew there was a ferry, the point was just the initial stranding. And I did make a sarcastic joke about it but I do wish them well.

[Obamanaut]

57. A mandatory evacuation order does not necessarily mean that able-bodied

citizens must 'obey' such an order. Generally speaking, they can stay if they want to, but must be aware of the possible consequences in whatever is coming their way - fire, flood, wind, rain, etc.

http://www.americanbar.org/newsletter/publications/law_practice_today_home/law_practice_today_archive/april11/fight_or_flight_on_enforcing_mandatory_evacuations.html

An interesting read here

[Waiting For Everyman]

12. Darn it, that sucks! I'm sure they would've MUCH rather been in their houses

when they were destroyed than to be "terrified" by the hype into leaving alive. Dead is better than over-hyped.

Because, ummm... hype is so... terrifying. Yeah.

:sarcasm:

[Broderick]

47. On the bright side

they get to rebuild their mansions on the coast with the flood insurance money. Thank God we let this same media whip the country into fear that if we tax the wealthy a bit more that it would lead to 9% unemployment plus!!! LMAO Oh, and thankfully this same profit driven media is doing well because they made out like bandits whipping people into a frenzy so they could report on a War in Iraq with the blessing of the American People. Same media, different Armageddon.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. They should be taxed at least 70% but this is separate from

the discussion at hand. You seem angry that the HYPE saved some Ritchie rich hides.

[marions ghost]

59. Can't agree

So you would tax everyone in flood zones, tornado alleys, drought & fire prone areas, earthquake zones, nuke zones, hurricane prone states (& islands) --70% ???? It's bad enough that their insurance is often sub.

However I agree with you that "over-hyping" is not the problem when it comes to known natural disasters.

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. No, I'd tax the top 2% of earners at those rates

the economy hummed... our friend was throwing the BUT THEY ARE VERY RICCH... which for the record, I have no clue if any of these people ARE, or have flood insurance. but I do not like to assume. But if they are at the top 2% yep... I want to tax them at least at Kennedy era levels, if not outright 90%

Let's c; clarify, not because of WHERE they live, but because of INCOME.

[marions ghost]

75. OK I understand now but it was unclear as you put it

I'm all for taxing the rich--totally agree with Kennedy era levels--

--but it's not going to prevent people wanting to own beach property in places where no building ever should have occurred, like the north end of Hatteras Island or the thin strip of "land" at Rodanthe.

In the case of Hatteras, I have talked to a permanent resident who confirmed that it is the fishermen & charter boat people, shop owners and permanent residents who elected to stay on Hatteras during Irene. Thrill-seeking vacationers were reduced to a handful, who would be sorry they did so right about now as it's an historic mess there. Understand that as bad as past damage has been on the island, it has NEVER been this bad. Orrin Pilkey at Duke (prof emeritus of coastal geology) has predicted this sort of damage for a long time and helped to implement coastal land use legislation which has resulted in the lack of hardened beachfront structures such as boardwalks, jetties, high rises slap on the water like at Va Beach, etc.--but of course the ever-greedy Republicans now want to turn that legislation back and totally destroy the Outer Banks. Grab the last Park Service land, which is what gives the lower banks its feel of "how it used to be" when the maritime plants and animals ruled instead of the almighty dollar.

Anyway, these were NOT "the rich" who stayed -- (they sailed away in their expensive cars and boats). For the most part it is the working people's property that has been most severely damaged at Hatteras. These are the old-style cottages which were NOT built on stilts, the trailers and shacks that are clustered on the Sound side of the island where all the flooding is. It is the people who keep the tourist business going that have been impacted the most, since the greatest damage was from storm surge rather than wind. If it had been wind you'd have seen more damage to the beachfront houses/rental properties.

As for flood insurance, it is expensive and full of disclaimers, eg. ground floor levels of structures (or one level structures) cannot be insured at all. Etc etc. So it is likely that a lot of this damage will be not covered by insurance, especially the older structures. Of course people do realize it's a high risk location when they live there. The whole Outer Banks is a huge source of revenue for NC so of course NC will be concerned with restoring access, but what has happened at Hatteras is going to be a lot harder to fix than ever before.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. Oh trust me, I know

[B2G]

61. Do you have any idea how many poor live in flood zones??

Uh, remember Katrina?

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. I made exactly that point above

but we were taling about the RICH... so to clarify... if any body is in the top 2% of income earners, I want them taxed at least 70%, and that is independent of where they live.

[Waiting For Everyman]

52. Yea, bringing in other issues as a diversion because you have no point.

Got it.

[B2G]

56. Well I'm sure I'm on ignore but...

for the rest of you. The NHC did a great job with the track. Intensity is always fuzzy. But the media hype surrounding this after it was clear that the storm was weakening and would not have the feared impacts is unforgivable. All for ratings.

Next time, how many will ignore the warnings as a result?

[Broderick]

60. +1

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. Turn it off, yes it is that simple

and no, you are not ignore, unless it is mutual, not again.

I also suggest that so far we have 40 people killed, and a whole state is under water (Yes VT is small), and they had to consider flooding a state capital, Montpellier, to protect it from a dam failure.

Damage is quickly approaching 45 Billion... if that is hype.. we truly part company.

But if this bothered you so much...turn the tv off, the radio as well... for that matter the computer... no peeking at DU, or any possible source of info. I mean it is hype (tm), and that has become a RW talking point.