I Got Into a DU Boxing Match Yesterday About Irene/Media

[titaniumsalute]

A poster was making a huge case yesterday about the media being compeltely sensationalistic about the lead up to Hurriacne Irene. He said that the hyperbole was overwhelming and that because it only ended up a Cat 1 hurricane it should be receiving so much media attention.

My argument was that the huge dense populated areas it was impacting and the flood/surge problem certainly made it worthwhile if it helped people to stay in and stay alert.

These pictures, I think, prove why the media is justified in alerting millions of people. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44305129/ns/weather/?gt1=43001

[RKP5637]

1. Around here some people get po'ed when programming is interrupted to

cover tornadoes. Idiots! :silly: :wtf: :crazy:

[Ruby the Liberal]

20. Yep, and I tried reminding them that MSNBC preempted the prison fetish marathon

to cover something that was affecting 12 states and ~23% of the US Population - and in slow motion (13mph and headed your way - you give a shit).

I was thanked for my advice to "turn the TV off if you don't care and go spend your last August weekend doing something fun in your good weather" with even more mocking.

Seems some folks would just rather find something to bitch about and there are some that I am more surprised as to what doesn't offend them than what does. Makes for interesting discussions though!

[eleny]

2. And the horrible flooding in New England and upstate New York ought to shut them up

Sounds like they jumped the gun with their poo-pooing the warnings.

Btw, last night two meteorologists on the Weather Channel were discussing Irene. One commented that papers would be written about this hurricane for a long time to come because of how different it was given that the categories meant so little.

[Ruby the Liberal]

24. The photos out of the Catskills (!) and Vermont today should shut them up.

Somehow, I doubt it though.

[eleny]

35. Yeah, not until their own bellybuttons are flooded

:hi:

[uppityperson]

3. k&r, thanks for the link, some incredible pictures. They were justified in warning

people. There aren't justified in standing in ankle deep surf breathlessley "reporting" "and it might get worse, right HEre!"

Yes, the warnings were necessary and glad they got people aware. I'm passing the link on, thanks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Yup me too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1833753

Oh and KR

[HockeyMom]

5. I saw boats floating where a main street used to be

not far from where my daughter lives. Fortunately, her basement apartment didn't flood, but it is better to be safe than sorry. Furniture can be replaced. Your child's life cannot be. I told her to get out long before her area was evacuated.

Do I think it was all hyped by the media? No, for the reasons I stated.

[RB TexLa]

6. The media was hyping the storm to increase their viewers.

[titaniumsalute]

9. Media doesn't necessarily make more on a crisis

If they didn't do anything we'd be all over the media for not warning anyone. What are they supposed to do? Ignore Mayors and Governors of all of their warnings and evacuation plans? By the way. In a case like this TV and Radio stations don't necessarily.

In a case like this, media stations don't really yelled anything from a "flash" audience. Nielsen measures by day and by week primarily. Being such a weird media week ad agencies and advertisers aren't going to just automatically pay more for commercials next week because these stations had a few days of heightened audiences. Matter of fact, most of these newsrooms went into overtime and probably end up losing on all of the extra overtime hours.

The stations don't just start automatically start charging more during a crisis for commercials so they don't make any extra money on it necessarily.

[RB TexLa]

11. Yes they do. Cox cable charged more to advertise on CNN, Fox and MSNBC after Katrina hit

[titaniumsalute]

15. Yes, AFTER Katrina hit

Of course they charged more then because it was such a huge news story with people dying on rooftops for days and days. That was a different story because of the magnitude of what happened when the levies broke and when Bush did nothing. Ratings on CNN tomorrow will start to get back to normal.

I sold media advertising for years for News/Talk radio and for TV news. The biggest thing that helped our revenue were long term ratings growth, not spikes in audience levels in short amounts of time. (By the way...elections were our biggest revenue spikes.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. I call elections mini stim packages for the media!

From readying that you wrote, I came to realize it works similarly in Mexico. Our local press critters complained to no end when the storms came because they had to COVER THAT...

Incidentally... you might find this curious. I time time between breaks at MSNBC... at one point the breaks were taking a good 45 minutes.

[RB TexLa]

19. And you don't think the cable companies and the news networks are not charging more right now?

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. and if they are... BFD!

[RB TexLa]

32. You said they don't make more money from hyping the events

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Because mostly they don't

I'd rather them hype the event (tm), and not hear of the number of people who could have died if they staid in the most dangerous areas... and it is not over yet by the way.

But if they are making money out of passing civil defense info, BFD... I am not concerned about that because I happen to get the function of running things like a governor or two "hyping this" If they did not, then rightfully so we could accuse them of pulling a Bush Light.

So if you are going to charge of this hype (tm)... please go on from POTUS on down... I mean they did this for fun and games I am sure.

[titaniumsalute]

71. No not really

You have to remember something...most national media buys are done by quarter, bi-annually or even annually. It's not like last Tuesday when it looked like a big storm might hit that these media outlets had their phones ringing off the hook for sponsors calling in. Budgets are already in place.

Now there could be an advertiser such as an insurance company who may, at the last moment, pull the trigger on an ad buy for bad weather. They most likely already have an agreed to rate and audience size at that point doesn't matter.

[jwirr]

77. And to warn more people - many do not listen unless it is serious.

Also in the USA we do not have any other warning system - when the sirens go off it is often too late. If you are going only by the Category number then I guess you can say it was hyped. However much of what is happening - the flooding and heavy rains are destroying a great deal of property and could have killed more people without this warning. No it is not Katrina but it is serious in a much larger area and is still going on.

In NW Iowa my family gets tornado warnings almost every night in the warmest part of the summer and since Texas gets its share of tornadoes I suspect you hear the same thing. We do not call it hype when they continue night after night and nothing happens. These tornado warnings usually effect small areas. This hurricane effected most of the east coast. It was national news and required warnings over a large area of the country. Who would have thought that a hurricane would hit as far inland as PA?

[malaise]

7. You are correct

add to that 4.5 million people without power.

[progressoid]

8. After a long day of cleaning up from our hail/wind storm last week, I take these things

quite seriously.

Better safe than sorry.

[FLPanhandle]

10. Those pictures are typical of any Cat 1 / Tropical Storm.

Those that don't get 24/7 coverage because they aren't in NYC.

Excuse me if we Floridians roll our eyes at the hyped coverage for something we deal with all the time without all the drama.

[titaniumsalute]

12. I am a Floridian so don't lump me into your category

You can roll eyes all you want...the truth of the matter is that it wasn't a typical Cat One storm as you well know. It dumped unprecedented amounts of rain in an already saturated area (the Northeast.) In addition, surge was a big problem because the storm hugged so much coastline rather than hitting perpendicular to the coast. You live in the FL with a low population...The NYC metro alone has 14 million people. So yes, it was worth the media attention it got to hopefully save lives.

[Dappleganger]

26. Truth is, size really does matter.

Cat 1, 2, 3 or just a tropical storm, if it is that HUGE there is going to be more variables than you can shake a stick at.

[FLPanhandle]

37. I'll align with the opinion of professional meterologists over posters on DU

Many professionals are already complaining about the media over hyping this storm. If professionals think it was over hyped, sorry if I don't choose your opinion over theirs.

http://www.theweatherspace.com/news/TWS-08_28_2011_828irene.html

As Hurricane Irene turned into a Major Hurricane in the Bahamas, media was in a frenzy, which led to another hyped storm.

Major Hurricane Irene struck the Bahamas last week, bringing flooding and powerful winds to the area that destroyed 90% of the houses on one smaller island.

Irene was progged to be a Category Three by every single outlet when it hit North Carolina. It was then progged to be a Category Two when it hit New York City.

TheWeatherSpace.com Senior Meteorologist Kevin Martin ran the Tropical Forecast Center and limited the hype with this system for viewers. When Irene was exiting Puerto Rico (August 22nd) Martin had forecast the system to hit North Carolina and then New York City. The system was said by him to weaken to a Category Two before hitting North Carolina, a Category One nearing New York City.

In reality this system was a high end Category One before North Carolina and a high end tropical storm (nearly category one) when hitting New York City.

"This is something I take pride in here at TheWeatherSpace.com," said Martin. "We limit the need to hype things up and understand the value of being conservative and save the hype for an actual event that would need it. This did not need the hype but media is a business, they need the ratings and views."



However, if you want to believe all the media predictions came true and they were restrained, then, so be it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. And many, due to the size of the event

are calling this a fore bringer of future global weather change events, due to increased energy and humidity in the atmosphere.

And it is part of the TREND of weather events that marks weather becoming more violent and unpredictable.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/08/hurricane-irene-and-global-warming-a-glimpse-of-the-future.html

http://thinkprogress.org/green/2011/08/26/305265/how-global-warming-is-making-hurricane-irene-worse/

And today they were also covering this with Rutgers weather experts.

[Ruby the Liberal]

47. The "expert" poster chose to cite is none other than the infamous Kevin Martin

Who has a High School diploma (or GED, Don't recall), but fancies himself a "meteorologist", specializes in tearing down any true meteorologist who comes up with a prediction before Kevin "discovers" it, and has been so widely discredited that I can't even believe I see a reference to him on DU. Hell, even the conspiracy theory sites GodlikeProductions and ATS banned him eons ago.

:rofl:

At least George Will has "some" credibility on the topic.

Kevin Martin. LOL!

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. That bad, did not realize that

funny then

Oh my...

Chemtrails according to Kevin Martin

I’ve been forecasting the weather for more than 10 years. I’ve seen many things in our sky. Many have asked me why did I turn from debunker to skeptic. Well let me ask you something. If you had a profession that involved an operation you could not talk about — and did. What would happen?

http://www.wariscrime.com/2008/09/19/news/chemtrails-according-to-kevin-martin/

This KEVIN MARTIN...

WOW...

The google is powerrul

:hi:

Thanks

[Ruby the Liberal]

55. Hilarious.

I almost wet myself when I saw theweatherspace as the source.

I know a storm chaser in NE Nebraska (NWS funded) who has a masters in meteorology, taught at the naval academy for a decade and now spends his spare time stalking little kevy-wevy across the internet. Nebraska dude is hilarious and knows how to trip Kevin's buttons. It is fabulous to watch.

His interest in little Kevin (who I keep naming as he has a penchant/obsession to google himself) began when Kevin started stealing photos taken by Nebraska (and others under copyright by the NEW and Weather.com) and passing them off as his own FOR SALE TO THE MEDIA. Shit got real when that happened and little Kevy hasn't changed his ways one iota even after being slapped with a massive suit.

Seriously - I am dying that he was posted HERE. ON DU!

If you have never seen a true human train wreck, definitely google up the boy. Endless entertainment. Even better - search his name on YouTube. Funny shit.

:popcorn:

[FLPanhandle]

48. I agree about bigger events and climate change.

That's different than media coverage of a minimal hurricane.

[Ruby the Liberal]

43. Professionals? KEVIN MARTIN????

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

The dude who has been so thoroughly discredited across the web that there are entire websites, wiki sites and you tube channels dedicated to mocking him and his twin? The dude who lives with his twin brother, has made up "staff" and "works" out of a bedroom in his parent's house in Palm Springs California (a known hotbed of hurricane expertise)? A dude who rooked some kid into setting fires on construction sites and taking pics of them so he could become 'famous'? Kevin of the infamous death threat to his opponents videos?

The Weather Space Kevin Martin?

And you want us to take this seriously?

Really - google dude before you make a bigger fool of yourself posting his "expertise".

:rofl:

[FLPanhandle]

50. Fine, it was the first google option, but there are plenty more.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/28/idUS224461771320110828
Hurricane Hysteria: Media Fueled Needless Panic Over Irene

Is the next and I'll let you post the rest if you want.

Hyped isn't the question now, it's rather was over hyping it a good idea or not.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Chemtrains KEVIN MARTIN

WOW...

By the way a certain CONSERVATIVE curmudgeon (George WIll) agrees with you too.

Of course George would be on Obama's case if this did not go as smoothly as it did.

http://nation.foxnews.com/george-will/2011/08/28/george-will-rips-irene-hype-journalism-shouldn-t-contribute-manufacture-synthetic-hysteria

Sorry for the link to fox... but what can I say

[FLPanhandle]

52. The second google result was Reuters.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. And I offer Mr. Will

[FLPanhandle]

58. Well, I have 5 pages of news articles about the over hyping of this storm.

Do you really want to just do them one at a time, or are you willing to at least admit many people think it was hyped.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. And are you willing to admit that many people do not share your opinion and that includes

many folks from your own state?

[FLPanhandle]

61. I'd be worried if everyone agreed with me.

I'd be worried I was in a group think environment if everyone agreed with me.

[jwirr]

78. I'm curious - what warning system would you have used to get the

word out to such a large area? Many storms are local and local media is the warning mechanism but this covered 12 states. Would you have warned them just how bad it could get or would you have minimized the possible effects? Would you have covered the speeches of the President? The governors? The Mayor? Would you have interviewed people actually involved? Would you have taken pictures of the damage? That is their job.

[Ruby the Liberal]

57. Trust me. It wasn't personal - I just about wet myself

seeing him referenced on this site.

Me (and lots, lots, lots of others) go WAAAAAAAAAAAY back with Kevin.

Heh.

[FLPanhandle]

59. No problem

Never heard of him. Sounds like quite the loon. My bad luck he was the first google result. Oh well... :)

[Ruby the Liberal]

63. Yanno - it frightens me that he was even the first choice.

Seriously - If you ever are needing a random laugh. Youtube search dude. Heh.

On another note - David Schuster has been all in my Twitter timeline tonight dissing the media coverage. He may have a blog or something. Not sure.

[FLPanhandle]

64. I will.

Conspiracy loons are always good for entertainment. :)

[Ruby the Liberal]

65. If there is ANYTHING he can deliver

It is just that.

Have fun.

:hi:

[BeFree]

79. Funny

You laugh at your "conspiracy loons" and here you are spreading your own loony conspiracy theory.

F'n hilarious. But.... you are not entertaining, just loony.

[titaniumsalute]

62. So which is more important?

The opinions of a bunch of weathercasters who were safe in their homes/workplaces or the hundreds of people in the NE that I have seen interviewed today who said they didn't think it was overblown media hype? I'll take the opinions of people who were in the direct way of destruction over DU posters.

[titaniumsalute]

66. Kevin Martin"s opinion?

You know he's a complete conspiracy theorist? This is Kevin Martin...

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1516180/pg1

[Dappleganger]

25. This Floridian strongly disagrees with your statement.

I have also lived in VA and NH and know the flooding issues they can have with the rain and tides. This was not over-hyped.

[Ruby the Liberal]

36. I got pics for ya!

2004 (Ivan) Escambia Bay Bridge:



2011 Rt 12 Hatteras



Enough.

[FLPanhandle]

42. Yep, and Ivan got a fraction of this coverage.

And it killed more people and was a stronger storm.

Thanks for contrasting the two storms and their media coverage.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Not from where I seat

if you said INIKI... ok... you got a point.

[FLPanhandle]

67. Opal is the one the most comes to mind

Two days after it hit, it disappeared from the TV.

Worst storm I've ever seen and horrible destruction. Gone from the airwaves like it was old news.

[titaniumsalute]

68. and the point is...

if it were "hyped" maybe so many people would not have died. You made my point my friend.

[FLPanhandle]

70. Nope.

This was probably the record hyped Category 1 storm in history. People still died.

Big storms will cause injuries and death. Hype doesn't save lives.

[titaniumsalute]

72. At this point I think what you're saying is foolish

and you know it.

[FLPanhandle]

73. Fine, have it your way...

The media should over hype every storm to make sure people do what you think they should do. Hype is good. Hype saves lives.

Feel better?

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. WOW!!!!

I will leave it at that... WOW

[Little Star]

45. My daughter & my sister both live in FL and they certainly don't feel

the way you do. They keep calling to check how we are doing. They both told me that even though there has been a lot of coverage it's not enough when you have family and friends all the way down the east coast.

They said that because they know how dangerous even a Cat1 can be is why they keep calling and watching tv coverage.

Not all Floridians feel like you! Just sayin'

[Kingofalldems]

13. They stuck a local reporter (DC) in the middle of raw sewage

[titaniumsalute]

16. Yes, saw it

Looked like applebutter. Ewww.

[Ikonoklast]

27. I feel sorry for the raw sewage.

[hlthe2b]

14. I tend to believe that the degree to which some poo poo concerns of others....

including the response and media coverage of this disaster--and the degree of bravado-- is actually INVERSELY correlated with their actual past experience, (despite claims of living through Hurricane Hugo, or Andrew, or.... :eyes: )


I am just glad the worst case scenarios did not take place, but certainly that does not mean that this was not a major event, worthy of the response.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. And you are mostly right actually

:-)

[cwydro]

44. Sorry, but some of us have been through large powerful

hurricanes. No power for more than a month. Losing a car...a house...none of it was covered in the media...gotta love DU - the same people that hate the media daily are all of a sudden their champions.

We have our opinions and we are entitled to them.

This is supposed to be a discussion board, though I notice some of the loudest voices manage to get dissenting voices shouted down.

Very sad.

Roll on DU loudmouths, roll on.

[hlthe2b]

56. Many here have...

Myself included earlier in life--though now living in Colorado. I have not muted your voice. What exactly are you taking offense at in my post? what exactly is so sad? I have nothing but empathy for those affected while others (self-proclaimed hurricane experts) have claimed that this was all nothing but a big thunderstorm because that is all THEY experienced in their little slice of geography and clearly nothing that happened elsewhere makes a damned difference to them.

I think you might want to redirect your anger.

[obxhead]

21. A friend gave me all kinds of excuses on why they were not evacuating.

She put her 4 and 13 year old children at risk. Both neighbors houses were crushed.

Now they are leaving.

:mad:

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. I hope they are doing ok, in spite of everything.

[obxhead]

28. They're ok.

I'm still furious with them though. It's one thing to risk your own life. It's another to risk the lives of children to avoid 12 hours of discomfort in a shelter or relatives.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. I get it, trust me

Perhaps though they learned the lesson and next time they will listen

Last time we had fires here, sister, brother in law and nephews came over here. It was crowded. I did not mind.

[hfojvt]

29. I take it you lost

and this is your way of asking for a re-match.

[titaniumsalute]

69. Nah...no one wins or loses on DU...it's just words

But I did want to share these pics of why it was a good call to be so careful with this storm.

[Lucinda]

30. They still will be contentious about it. See this thread for examples.

Thanks for the link. I've missed a lot of the coverage today.

[johnaries]

34. So, he was upset because we got lucky?

While I agree that the media tends to get sensationalistic, this was a very bad example for him to pick. It's always better to be over-prepared for a disaster than under-prepared.

[Ruby the Liberal]

38. Those pics are horrific.

Thanks for the link.

[Waiting For Everyman]

39. That is the most comprehensive collection of pics I've seen - TY!

The downing of the media is sour grapes from those not getting attention, deservedly so, while nothing is going on with them and an emergency is underway elsewhere. It's nonsense I would expect from a 12 year old. It's the kind of me, me, me, hoggishness which is the problem in this country. I can't describe how much that disgusts me.

[pipi_k]

41. Wouldn't want to have been on the coast....

I'm 100 miles inland from the CT coast in W. Mass and things got pretty nasty here

Might not have been a full fledged hurricane by the time it got here but even tropical storms can do a lot of damage in areas not used to them. Thanks goodness for the TV hype is all I have to say....

[rocktivity]

53. The article whined about Irene being referred to as "the storm of a lifetime"

To the sixteen people who didn't survive it, that's EXACTLY what it was.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[Ruby the Liberal]

80. Up to 21 now and days away from New England cresting.

:-(

[Logical]

75. I disagree. Way to worried about making money and not worried enough about reporting.

[Catherine Vincent]

76. And it's not just hurricanes that can cause serious flooding

Tropical storms too: