Bill Moyers - The great divide today is a radical lack of empathy

[housewolf]

Watching on CSpan2 BookTv now, Bill Moyers interviewed by Garrison Kellor on 6/13/2011, it's fulfilling nourishment for a Sunday morning

"The rich and the very powerful suffer today from the characteristics of being sociopaths, that is a radical deprived of empathy" ... "When you are radically deprived of empathy and you want to pay the least amount of taxes instead of supporting the great consortium that is embodied in the preamble to the Constitution - "We the people in order to" - when you want to not carry your fair share, you begin to deprive everybody else of the things that made my life.

I grew up poor. My father had a 4th grade education. He never made over 100 a month up until his last few years when he joined a union, and I have his last pay stub - $96 and some odd cents after taxes. But I went to good public schools in Marshall, Texas - by the way, they were an antidote to any fundamentalist preaching we were getting in town. I drove on a public highway to a public university, the University of Texas. I stopped in public parks. I used public facilities. And most important of all, I had access to public libraries. I never walked through that library at the University of Texas without thinking "All of these were written for me by people who didn't know me.
This whole university was built by people who didn't know me and whom I will never know, because they believed in us. Us. The preamble to the Constitution.

And they invested their money in public institutions. And this gap between the rich and poor today is starving the public sector despite our enormous debts. It's retreating from the public life of the nation. So that the rich will be behind their gated communities and the rest of America in the next 20 or 30 years, if we don't reverse this trend, will be like areas of India, where they're just left... you know, the doctrine of the right is the survival of the fittest. Every man for himself. And if that happens, that means that society becomes a jungle.

Civilization is but a thin veneer of civility stretched across the passions of the human heart. And we have to work to keep that civilization. When people withdraw their consent and withdraw their support from it, then you're right close to a reversion to a pre-civilization society. And that's what troubles me about the elites today who suffer from, I think, the worst of all religious sins, which is malignant narcissism."


You can watch the entire interview here, it's about 1.5 hr:
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Moyer

[Karmadillo]

1. K&R

nt

[GoCubsGo]

2. He is quite correct.

And, the real sad part of it is that so many have-not wannabes lack empathy, as well. the old "divide and conquer" is alive and well.

[Mojambo]

3. Do you have a link to the transcript, by chance? n/t

[housewolf]

5. Yes, here it is

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Moyer


Enjoy!

[Mojambo]

6. Thank you very much. n/t

[misanthrope]

19. I can't see the transcript via that link...

...only the video. I'd rather read it than watch it because it's faster.

[housewolf]

21. Oh, sorry... I don't have a link for a transcript

Searching for one, but not coming up with it yet.

[Mojambo]

26. There's a spot for the transcript but it's still blank.

I'm hopeful that they'll have something up later.

[housewolf]

24. OOps, that's a link to the video, not a transcript

Sorry!

[w0nderer]

53. self delete n/t

[orpupilofnature57]

4. Narcissistic Fibrosis

[GliderGuider]

33. +1 - What a great term!! /nt

[Mojorabbit]

7. I'd also love to have the link. :) nt

[EFerrari]

8. That sounds great, thank you.

[Curmudgeoness]

9. Bill Moyers has always been a refreshing voice

in a time when most voices are screaming hate to us.

Bookmarked for later.

[WillyT]

10. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

:kick:

[kestrel91316]

11. Malignant narcissism. No more apt description for it than THAT.

[libodem]

12. Love him

Beautiful spirit. Intellectual without being pompous.

[elleng]

13. Yes, he's correct; losing civility>civilization.

[Odin2005]

14. Capitalism is sociopathy as an economic system.

[Honeycombe8]

61. Capitalism is great. It's why I own a home, can buy an abundance of food, have a car...

can rescue dogs, and live a life that I wouldn't be able to live in most countries in the world, least of all the dull-gray Russia/Soviet Union, where the shelves of grocery stores are bare, and there is little color anywhere.

Viva la capitalism! It helps everyone, ESPECIALLY the middle class. That is the SOLE reason that countries have a middle class at all. It doesn't ensure there is a middle class...but middle class doesn't exist without it. Even in a recession, the freedom to improve your lot through capitalism exists...although to a much smaller degree than in good economic times.

Sign me...a working gal. The more education I get, the harder I work, the more I improve my lot....the more I get paid. I also have the freedom to change jobs and get paid more.

This isn't the case in many countries. You get paid what you get paid, and that's it. You are not allowed to change jobs, but even if you did, you wouldn't get paid any more than you do now.

[marions ghost]

66. So you're OK

but do you care about those who aren't?

[fascisthunter]

68. nah... all the others deserve nuthin' cause ther all lazy druggies

:sarcasm:

We've seen this Arhcie Bunker mentality before.

[Honeycombe8]

75. What's Archie Bunker about me sacrificing to buy a house years ago?

You don't have a house? You don't want a house? You don't want the opportunity to get a house? You don't want a good job that pays better than a flunkie job?

The fact that we have opportunities is a different discussion from the hardship that many are going through right now.

Certainly I didn't strike during this recession to get free health care for life, while millions were going without a job or any healthcare at all. I didn't see much grumbling about that. (BTW...I will never have free or even cheap health care for life. But I am not jealous of those who worked that deal...they paid for it, one way or the other. That doesn't make them Archie Bunkers.)

[fascisthunter]

86. no, because you assume people fail because they don't try like you do

when a lot of people cannot, not because they are lazy or deserve less, but because they couldn't due to illness, abject poverty, anemia, disease, drug addiction, abuse, rape, accident, etc...

You place everyone beneath you just as Archie Bunker did on a tv show.

BTW - I worked my whole life, fell down and picked myself up along with some help from loved ones... I have seen people while being down, who did everything right, and failed not because they didn't try... good for you though, I guess.

[marions ghost]

72. Edit that to:

"do you care about people also, or is it only rescue dogs?..."

[Honeycombe8]

77. What makes you think I don't care about people? Because I sacrificed to buy a house?

Do you know what I did to buy a house? Well, let me tell you:

After suffering through multiple miscarriages, while my husband fooled around on me....I packed up a U-haul, put my stuff in it, and headed out of town TO A LOCATION WITH A LOWER UNEMPLOYMENT RATE. While I was pregnant.

I got a job. I lived in a bad part of town. I got a gun. I had to pull that gun on attempted break-in. But I stayed, 'cause it was cheap. I worked long hours, at low pay, and I saved. I had my last miscarriage at 9:00 at night riding home on the bus. Alone, with a towel between my legs.

But I stayed. And I saved. And I saved. And I saved. I got a better job with a slightly better income. Then I got a raise. I still livedi n that bad apartment. I sold my old wedding ring for $400, to make up the last of the closing costs on an FHA loan to buy a small condo. I had MOVED ON UP!

I cont'd to save. (I HAVE NEVER BEEN ON A VACATION IN MY ENTIRE ADULT LIFE. And I'm in my 50's.) I saved and I saved.

Until I could buy a house. I looked at over 200 HOUSES before I could find something in a safe part of town I could afford. I bought it, after back and forth negotiating. It wiped me out. There was no new furniture, new TV, nothin'. Just me and the cat I'd rescued movin' into our new house in a decent neighborhood.

I got a better job, where I was worked like a horse...but I got paid O.T. The years passed. I paid off the house. I paid off the car. I STILL NEVER WENT ON ANY VACATION...I had bills to pay. No computer. Finally bought another TV when my old one broke.

I kept the car for 14 years. I'm still in teh house. I STILL HAVE NEVER BEEN ON A VACATION. I take time off, but I have house repairs and projects to do...and two rescue dogs to care for. I don't own a laptop, a flat panel TV, and I do not have any credit card debt. Oh, and to buy my new car? I saved for it AHEAD OF TIME, and paid for it in cash. A budget econobox, but reliable little car.

Capitalism. The only reason I've made it on my own, through hardships and bad-ass people screwing me, and awful parents, and nutty relatives. Oh, and I help take care of my sister in a nursing home hundreds of miles away. SHE has a flat panel TV that I bought her, as well as other items. She is on Medicaid, so I esp. value Medicaid for all that it has done for her.

Capitalism. The only reason I have a roof over my head.

[marions ghost]

87. You did not have children or dependants to support

and you seem to be a natural workaholic. :) Those are big advantages.

However you are a capitalist exploiter's dream employee if you feel too guilty or frugal to EVER take a vacation. That is how they want you to think.

A lot of people have worked as hard as you. But they have not had your good luck--an illness or job change can mean a downward spiral financially. You seem to think that people fall on hard times only because they don't try hard enough. There are many other factors.

[Honeycombe8]

74. Everyone has the freedom to improve his/her lot through capitalism. Including me.

Things haven't always been great for me. I've been through many trials and tribulations.

But...I was able to overcome some things, get a better job, and then a better one. Then get a job where I get paid overtime, and make extra money. I've been able to improve my lot in life through hard work (I mean HARD work), sacrifice and perseverence.

That is what capitalism offers. Not easy street. But the OPPORTUNITY to improve your lot in life.

That doesn't mean that some social programs aren't beneficial. They provide a safety net for the most vulnerable. They should exist. Like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, free child health care, etc.

But for the able adult who wasn't born into good luck and prosperity, we have the opportunity to make our financial and quality of life conditions better through education, hard work, initiative, and perseverence.

I love capitalism. So do most of you, I think. Some of the younger posters don't really understand what capitalism is. If a kid has a lemonaide stand, or mows the neighbor's lawn for a few dollars....that is capitalism. The inability to choose what you do for a living, like Soviet Union used to be (not sure if it's that way, anymore)...that is not capitalism. To sell your junk on Ebay and make a few dollars, when you're unemployed....that's capitalism.

Then we all pay taxes for the common good and to maintain the country.

Viva la capitalism. It is a rare country where a single women can live on her own and make it financially. In most places in the world, that cannot happen. So, yes....I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to overcome. (I think I could've made it in Canada, as well? Sweden? The UK. France. All those countries are based on capitalism.)

[hifiguy]

76. Your examples are "free enterprise" not "capitalism"

Capitalism involves the control of the working conditions of others, "free enterprise" not so much.

I have a number of business people as friends. They put their own asses on the line to build their businesses. They practiced free enterprise. They are successful because they make quality niche products and charge a fair price for them. They also treat their workers well because as one said to me "without them I would be nothing. I'd still be making product X one at a time in my garage." Which is why in twenty years he's had next to zero turnover at his enterprise except when someone has retired. "Capitalists" like the banksters, health insurance execs and Fortune 500 types do no such thing. They are thieves playing with other people's money.

And they would do well to meditate on the fates of fascistic tyrants like Benito Mussolini and Nicolae Ceaucescu. For their time, too, shall come.

[Honeycombe8]

78. Capitalism is the marketing of things or services...for money.

Free enterprise is PART of capitalism.

[fascisthunter]

67. What a load of RW Crap!

your life is like a Leave it to Beaver fanatsy... work hard, get paid, live well... so easy... tralalalalala-lala

[marions ghost]

73. traaalaaala

...says it all --about the empathy-challenged.

[Honeycombe8]

81. Read my story. About my sis in the nursing home on Medicaid. About HOW

I was able to buy my house...and pay it off by middle age.

Then come talk to me about empathy. I'm a good, caring person. I contribute to my charities, to my mean sister in the nursing home (most of the rest of the family won't have anything to do with her...she's a really mean, weird person), I rescue dogs, I'm on good terms with my neighbors. I've had the same job for over 25 years, and I get along with my co-workers.

If you think ANY of those things is easy, you don't know what you're talking about. But that doesn't fit into your vision of what is hardship vs. what is "easy street."

I came from a not-so-good, abusive childhood (parts were good)...but it was basically unpleasant. Thank goodness I have a happy personality...that seemed to carry me a long way. But birthdays? I don't have birthdays. Because I never had birthdays growing up, past the age of about 5. The other siblings had birthdays. But there was never a birthday for me. Don't know why. My mother bleached my hair when I was 5 because she didn't think I was pretty. Then she drew heavy eyebrows on me, and put mascara on me, to try to pretty me up. I've destroyed all those pictures from that time. I was hideous...this small little girl with red frizzie hair (the bleach had made my shiny brown hair red and frizzy), and grotesque eyebrows. She took me to a beauty salon for oil treatments on my hair, but they didn't do any good. They put this Frankenstein tall cap on my head with wires sticking out of it all over, and I sat there and cried huge tears while looking in the mirror at what my mama had done to me. To this day, even though I'm in my 50's, I hate to go to beauty salons. I wear my hair long and natural. It turned out that my healthy shiny hair is my best feature. Ironic.

There were no discussions about school grades, extracurricular activities, etc. There was, simply, no interest in me by my parents, that I could detect. Except for a few particularly harsh beatings (the school called my parents after one bad beating...that was the last one). I tried to go to college, but I dropped out. I just couldn't cope with life on my own. I moved out of my parents' house at 17, after high school. It took me years to be able to cope with the world. I was on my own, w/o much help. I was very poor. I couldn't buy beef for a couple of years, eating mainly canned veggies on sale. Another irony...I gave up beef entirely over a decade ago, for ethical reasons. I lived on my own for years. My parents never called me once to see how I was. Oh, well.

So, no, it wasn't easy to grow up happy, fairly well-adjusted, with a stable career, a few friends, and decent relationships with family. As well as owning a home and other things. No man bought these things for me. Everything my eyes see in my house...I paid for myself, through hard work and perseverence.

A woman on her own is not the same as a man on his own. I'm old enough to remember that it was not against the law to pay women less than men for the same job. And I got paid less, for sure.

I worked at Burger King, Master Chef, a mail clerk, an office clerk, a secretary. I tried college again, but dropped out. I finally ended up going to paralegal school. I actually was standing in front of a group of my boyfriend's friends somewhere, when he told them I was leaving soon to go to paralegal school. I'm not joking when I say that they openly laughed at that. "What, is that like Ambassador School? hahahaha." I got a lump in my throat...making fun of my plans to try to better myself? Who would do such a thing?

But I went to paralegal school. Got a job being a paralegal, getting paid almost nothing. Married the boyfriend. Had multiple miscarriages, while supporting a deadbeat, cheating husband. Packed up the U-haul, got a job in a big city with a good economy, and left.

Fast forward. Here I am...with several money accounts (incl. the 401K)...a happy disposition, a good (although hard) job, some pets I love, a house paid off (I won't become homeless, which was my biggest fear), a car paid for...and I did it because of capitalism and the freedom to improve my lot from a middle class, neglectful existence to one of substance. Where hopefully I matter in the world. I ALSO try to live a healthy lifestyle, so that hopefully I don't get diabetes or another chronic condition. THAT isn't easy, either!

[marions ghost]

84. Your success has more to do with your toughness

than it has to do with capitalism. You are the type who would survive whether you lived under communism, fascism, capitalism, or fundyism.

If I were you I'd look at how far you go with this argument because it appears you are putting down others who don't have your exceptional strength-- the old "I got mine" kind of pride. Sure, some pride is justified but in separating yourself from those who don't make it so well in this brutal society, you run the risk of becoming blind to those who are suffering.

Your attitude sounds suspiciously like the right wing arguments against any sort of government programs in a humane (ie. "socialist") democracy.

[Honeycombe8]

79. No, it was not easy. I had some strikes against me. After it's done, people see...

what others have and think, "Oh, so easy for them." No, it wasn't. Most people wouldn't do what I had to do to make it on my own.

Move to a new city, with almost no money, during a recession...I had to move where there was more employment. And leave an awful husband. While pregnant.

I rode the bus to work in the big city, working late sometimes, even though that wasn't part of the deal. My last of four or so miscarriages I had on that bus, alone, while I rode home at night in darkness, with a towel between my legs. I got home, cleaned up, finished my miscarriage, cried myself to sleep (because, after all, no one in the world gave a shit about me), missed the next day of work, then went back to work, and started a clean slate.

I worked hard, got a better job. And then a better job. Then got a better place to live (the break-ins were pretty scary where I had been living, even though I'd gotten a gun).

Car trouble. Bad ex-husband who ...well, I won't go into that. Suck-ass family. Employers who work me like a horse. But I did it. I'm still doing it.

Turns out I'm good at what I do, and I have a positive attitude. I have something to sell: excellent references, a work ethic, honesty, optimism. In other words, I can help others make money, which is what the business world is about.

In the meantime, I bought a little cottage. Nothin' fancy. Got a decent car (which I kept for 14 years...I actually still have it). I saved and saved and saved, and was careful NEVER to have credit card debt. I went without a lot of things.

I sold my services, got better jobs, and finally am able to think I MIGHT be able to semi-retire at some point. This would not be possible for women in most countries in the world. But no, it wasn't easy. Not by a long shot.

[fascisthunter]

83. good for you... you get a gold star

for sticking to and with a system that screws more than it benefits.

[marions ghost]

88. Right

How to fit into the system:

Live alone
Take no vacations
Don't get sick
Don't lose your job
Never buy anything
Never share anything
Criticize others who dare to want something better

[Honeycombe8]

90. Who did I criticize? All I said, if you read my OP, was that I like capitalism.

That's not a criticism of anyone. It is you who has criticized someone who has done nothing but make a simple statement, then reply to a criticism of "how easy" it was for me, only to point out that it's best not to make assumptions, when you don't know the facts.

You are way off base, ghost.

When I was poor, people assumed I was a lazy deadbeat. Now that I'm doing better, others with less assume it has been all so easy for me.

People tend to stereotype BOTH ways. People like you. I have not done that.

[marions ghost]

96. No, we'll never know all the facts will we, since

we can only go on impressions around here. You would APPEAR to be a celebrator of "capitalism" because YOU made it. (And if you hadn't made it against all odds, how would you be feeling about capitalism?)

When you look around at the greed and exploitation and injustice in this country, at the ever-widening gulf between those who grab as much as they can for themselves and those who will never really have enough or "make it." Does that make you feel good? Does that make you feel that capitalism is working well?

If you answer yes to that, I think you should be voting R. :shrug:

[Honeycombe8]

91. I've been very lucky, and I've been rewarded for my hard work. My point is...

without capitalism, I would've been stuck in the world into which I was born, with limited opportunities to better myself.

I make a very good salary. I come from a long line of farmers, so maybe I view things differently from you city folk. Farmers work dawn to dusk, and longer. There are no vacations. You take your pleasure however you can get it...with the birth of a new calf, or a good crop one year.

How many vacations do you think Bill Gates took, when he was making his fortune? (Here's a clue: none.) That is typical for what people do to accomplish a goal. I don't expect everyone to do that...in my case, I had to do that, because I had no fall back. No family to rescue me. No husband to share issues with. No children to help me in my old age. Most people have someone.

I have been blessed with a strong work ethic, healthy genes, the desire to live a healthy lifestyle, the perseverence it took to overcome trials and tribulations (which were not that great, compared to many other people). I have a great job that pays overtime. I have a cute house. I have two adorable dogs. I have a couple of good friends. I do what I want, when I want...except to the extent that I have to work for a living, and I work long, hard hours under stressful conditions sometimes.

I have been very lucky. No, I won't get free health care for life. As I said in a prior post, I don't begrudge those who have worked that deal. But I'm not union (intentionally), so that won't be my deal. You pay for that deal, one way or the other. I wasn't willing to pay for that deal (I come from a union city, so I've seen the downside of that).

Instead of being jealous of someone who has "made it," while not criticizing others who have not...and while fully supporting full funding of Medicaid and Social Security and Medicare, maybe you should look into your heart to try to find out why...why you are jealous of others, when they've done nothing at all harmful to you. Not even so much as a criticism.

[fascisthunter]

94. why would you assume people are jealous?

In order for you to state such a condescending statement you would have to assume people really care how hard you worked for what you have... that's incredibly egotistical... you still don't get the attitude you are displaying here about those less fortunate than you. I guess telling yourself it is them and not your way of looking things that makes it easier for you, but it doesn't work that way. You look down on people you don't even know or understand...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

85. You do know the Soviet Union was dissolved more than 20 years ago?

And that a number of European countries, particularly Scandinavia, have a much higher standard of living, fewer poor people, better medical care, lower unemployment, longer life expectancies and higher-quality (free) education than the U.S.? That the American middle class is rapidly disappearing? And that the European countries, while they have many private businesses, are more or less socialist? And that you can easily change jobs in those countries - especially since, unlike the U.S., there are jobs there?

[Honeycombe8]

93. The highest suicide rate in the world is in Sweden.

Sweden has a capitalist economic system. Capitalism means you have profits and wages. Sweden has both. True socialism doesn't have both of those things in the private sector.

[fascisthunter]

95. it is? Got a link? And a link that supports what reasons you attribute Sweden's suicidal rates to?

The list I have doesn't even show Sweden in the top ten... I think you just made that up to attack their system which is a more socialized system. This dislike for socialism or pseudo-socialism is I believe your statement is based on your prejudices and not on actual knowledge. Even wikipedia doesn't have Sweden in the top ten...



1 Lithuania 58.5 8.8 31.5 2009
2 South Korea<4> (more information) N/A N/A 31.0 2009
3 Kazakhstan 46.2 9.0 26.9 2007
4 Belarus<5><6> N/A N/A 25.3 2010
5 Japan (more information)<7><8> 36.5 14.3 24.6 2010
6 Russia<9> N/A N/A 23.5 2010
7 Guyana 33.8 11.6 22.9 2005
8 Ukraine<10> 40.9 7.0 22.6 2005
9 Hungary<11> 37.1 8.8 21.8 2009
10 Sri Lanka<12>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

And no, I don't go by wikipedia alone...

The myth about Sweden and suicides
http://homepage.mac.com/jrc/contrib/sweden_suicide.html

World Health Organization:
http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide_rates/en/

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

99. Not even close. The highest suicide rate is in Lithuania.

Followed by South Korea, Kazakhstan, Belarus, Japan, Russia, Guyana, Ukraine, Hungary, Sri Lanka, Latvia, Slovenia, and Serbia/Montenegro. They aren't even in the top 10. Sweden does have private property, so they are not "socialist" by the literal definition (government ownership of the means of production and distribution). But it is not a total free-market system, either. Not that such a thing actually exists anywhere.

[postulater]

15. Great quote!

"Civilization is but a thin veneer of civility stretched across the passions of the human heart. And we have to work to keep that civilization. When people withdraw their consent and withdraw their support from it, then you're right close to a reversion to a pre-civilization society."

[moondust]

16. K/R

O8)

[indepat]

17. When the Congress, the administration, and the Supreme Court court

wealthy sociopathic radicals deprived of empathy and eaten up with malignant narcissism rather than promote the general welfare, when they reach a grand bargain for gutting social security and Medicare rather than requiring these sociopathic radicals, who already own most of the nation's wealth, to bear a fair share of the income tax burden necessary to finance governmental operations, service its debt, and meet its other obligations, we have what, imo, a court of equity would rule as a failure to fulfill their oaths of office, a horrendous breach of duty, and malfeasance and misfeasance of office in the first degree: this breach of duty is so great as to almost surely be unprecedented. :patriot:

[FredStembottom]

18. "Malignant Narcissism"

Wow. That one is staying with me.

:patriot:

[tblue]

20. Bill Moyers is a national treasure.

I was fortunate to see him in person once. I remember he said that campaign finance reform is the most important cause of our lifetime, that it may not happen in our lifetime but, like abolition, it will come. We all have to do our part to make it happen, even if it's a long way off.

[woo me with science]

22. Thank you. K&R.

[snagglepuss]

23. Bkmrd. k & R nt

[Lionessa]

25. Well he's half right. I see either radical lack of empathy or

empathetic impotency. Those that care just have no idea how to get it done, what they try is largely ignored or demonized and the entire fact that we are empathetic keeps us from being too radical because we know what radicalization can cause.... f'ing catch 22's for us good guys.

[LuckyLib]

27. Saw this lecture live. Keillor sometimes has trouble shutting up, going on an endless

detour into their common roots as fundamentalist Christians. Moyers nailed it multiple times -- not the least of which was the description of our culture as characterized by "malignant narcissism". And he made no bones about the thieves on Wall Street, the hedge fund hogs, and a lack of empathy for folks who genuinely struggle in life.

[housewolf]

28. You are indeed a "Lucky Lib" to have seen it live!

You must have been thrilled! There's just something that's so nourishing from the truth that Bill Moyers give voice to.

Garrison Keillor is a story-teller, who is is is someone who turns everyday events into stories. Love him to pieces but it must have been annoying to have to wait through his stories to get to the gold from Bill Moyers.

If there's one person I'd love to meet in my lifetime, it's Bill Moyers.

[LuckyLib]

63. It's interesting that the best interviewers are those who "get out of the way."

Bill Moyers is one of those interviewers -- he always let the guest do the talking, while putting just the right question out there almost invisibly. Keillor and Charlie Rose? Not so much.

[misanthrope]

30. Democrats would always do well to remember...

...that Bill and Hillary Clinton wasted no time ensconcing their daughter in the bosom of those "hedge fund hogs."

[Fuddnik]

29. Kick and Rec!

Watching now. Loves me some Moyers!

[markpkessinger]

31. Thanks for sharing this. Moyers is ALWAYS worth watching! n/t

[B Calm]

32. I watched part of it. I loved the part where he explained how the republican

party misinforms the American people and how they do a
damn good job of it too!

[femrap]

34. Thanks for posting....

We both love Bill! A national treasure!

[ProfessionalLeftist]

35. We are a nation of sociopaths.n/t

[me b zola]

36. K&R

[DirkGently]

37. Moyers nails it. RW greedeology has destroyed our pride in public works & community itself.

[BlueMTexpat]

38. Thanks so much for posting this!

I love both Bill Moyers and Garrison Keillor. Having both together is the height of bliss!

"Malignant narcissism" is an aptly descriptive term. Unfortunately, it also appears to be contagious.

[Faygo Kid]

39. I am heartbroken at how ugly this nation has become.

That we can even consider a thug like Rick Perry as a legit candidate for president is beyond redemption.

[Mosaic]

40. I doubt 'America' will survive

The left leaning South American states will survive. Our fascist empire is dying quick, and when the rich live in gated castles and we are all peasants we will know it's over.

[closeupready]

41. By definition, a civilization in decline is headed towards anarchy. We see at the top the disrespect

for the rule of law, and this filters down, since the tone is always set at the top of any human organization or society. When those who are governed by authorities refuse to cooperate, your 'civil' society fails.

[EFerrari]

55. The dismantling of our public institutions is also the dismantling of the state.

That's right.

[pansypoo53219]

42. the greedy rich are a bone cancer on the body of america.

but is there a cure? can we make them actually give shit?

[dsharp88]

43. Brilliantly put. n/t

[DeSwiss]

44. K&R

While I agree with Bill's premise, we are all partly responsible for where we are today. The malignant rich are only doing what is natural for them under this decadent and corrupting capitalist system of ours. But each time in the past when we "compromised" our principles, each time when we voted for those compromisers, we set in motion one more step, one more increment away from the foundation of "We the people in order to" -- upon which it all stands. Just as we do today.

In the end, it's not so much what happens to us if we don't support Obama and this so-called version of the New Democratic Party, it's what happens to us if we do. We will all be that much further away from where we started, re-purchasing ground already won by others before us. At a very costly price. This is what we call progress today. Only losing a little more this time, as opposed to a lot all at once under the Repukes. Heaven help us.

- I am reminded of a saying that my grandfather used to tell me as a child, "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear......"

So if we are talking change through revolt, we're necessarily talking about deconditioning because the thing we fear already has a life deep in our own consciousness. Deconditioning from cultural ignorance is at the heart of any insurrectionary politics. Deconditioning also involves risk and suffering. But it is transformative, freeing the self from helplessness and fear. It unleashes the fifth freedom, the right to an autonomous consciousness. That makes deconditioning about as individual and personal act as is possible. Maybe the only genuine individual act.

Once unencumbered by self-induced and manufactured cultural ignorance, it becomes clear that politics worldwide is entirely about money, power and national mythology, with or without some degree of human rights. America still has all of the above to one degree or another. Yet for all practical purposes, such as advancing the freedom and the well being of its own people, the American republic has collapsed.

Of course, there is still money to be made by the already rich. So the million or so people who own the country and the government use their control to convince us that there is no collapse, just economic and political problems that need to be solved. Naturally, they are willing to do that for us. Consequently, the economy is discussed in political terms, because the government is the only body with the power to legislate, and therefore render the will of the owning class into law.

But politics and money are never going to fill what is essentially a public vacuum that is moral, philosophical and spiritual. (The latter was instantly recognized by fundamentalist Christians, disfigured by cultural ignorance, as they may be.) Not many ordinary Americans talk about this vacuum. The required spiritual and philosophical language has been successfully purged by newspeak, popular culture, a human regimentation process masquerading as a national educational system, and the ruthlessness of everyday competition, which leaves no time to contemplate anything.

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2010/12/america-y-ur-peeps-b-so-dum.html">~Joe Bageant, "America Y UR Peeps B So Dum?"

[LiberalLovinLug]

69. Bill is great, but thanks for that link to Joe Bageant

I am sad he has passed away, but what he writes is so clearly, succinctly, eloquently laid out, much like Bill's is.

[PatSeg]

45. What an extraordinary person he is and

One of my favorite people.

It is such a shame that the very wealthy just don't get it. Empathy is good for everyone, including them. Living in a healthy, prosperous society benefits all those who live in that society. There are a handful who get it and you hear them say, "I have been so fortunate, I have to give back some of that good fortune". Often the more they give back, the more fortunate they become.

Some of those tired, old cliches are cliches for a reason, and "You can't take it with you" comes to mind whenever I hear of mindless greed.

[democrank]

46. As usual, Bill Moyers is absolutely correct

but that won`t keep him from being tossed under the Third Way`s big yellow you-know-what.

[HelenWheels]

47. Over the walls

I'm waiting for the day the "great unwashed" like me go over the walls of the gated communities. What the rich won't give will have to be taken.

[G_j]

right on

K&R

[G_j]

48. right on

K&R

[Romulox]

49. Globalism, "free trade" and laissez-faire capitalism are incompatible with community...

If one if supposed to "COMPETE!" in the economic marketplace, why shouldn't one be expected to "COMPETE!" in the social marketplace? In other words the posited distinction between *social* and *economic* darwinism is bogus; that's because economic activity IS social activity!

So you get in your car made with scab labor to buy sweatshop goods, then come home and blog about your concern for workers? It's ridiculous.

[Fumesucker]

50. "Civilization is but a thin veneer of civility stretched across the passions of the human heart. "

Recced..

[LWolf]

51. k&r

[ananda]

52. That is SO true.

And the great tragedy of the 21st c.

[on point]

54. Also "Greed Entitlement" = I steal what I can, I don't care about impacts on others

[yellerpup]

56. Thanks for this thoughtful post

and for the link as well. People take so much for granted. :kick: & Rec!

[Amonester]

57. K & R (n t)

[Uncle Joe]

58. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, housewolf.:thumbsup:

[Jim_Shorts]

59. Bill Moyers, as American as apple pie

Poem he read by Robert Bly:

Call and Answer
Tell me why it is we don’t lift our voices these days
And cry over what is happening. Have you noticed
The plans are made for Iraq and the ice cap is melting?

I say to myself: “Go on, cry. What’s the sense
Of being an adult and having no voice? Cry out!
See who will answer! This is Call and Answer!”

We will have to call especially loud to reach
Our angels, who are hard of hearing; they are hiding
In the jugs of silence filled during our wars.

Have we agreed to so many wars that we can’t
Escape from silence? If we don’t lift our voices, we allow
Others (who are ourselves) to rob the house.

How come we’ve listened to the great criers—Neruda,
Akhmatova, Thoreau, Frederick Douglass—and now
We’re silent as sparrows in the little bushes?

Some masters say our life lasts only seven days.
Where are we in the week? Is it Thursday yet?
Hurry, cry now! Soon Sunday night will come.

[lupinella]

60. Wonderful

as always, Mr. Moyers!

[Honeycombe8]

62. Very eloquent. But you know...I think that attitude has always existed.

In every country, through every century, including America.

[BrendaBrick]

89. Yeah - I hear ya!

Thing is with you Honeycombe8...as you have mentioned repeatedly, YOU worked hard, YOU got a better job and THEN - a better job after that.

WOW! Really? Good for you - WHEN that happened!

Those days are long gone sweetie in case you didn't receive the fricking memo!!! Your song is nothing new to many of us here at all!

It is no longer about working harder and scaling back, postponing vacations and the like and focusing on just the bare necessities in order to make for a better tomorrow...where it will eventually ALL PAY OFF.

Please spare me your self-righteous bullshit as I am sure many of us here have a similar tale of despair to share...only thing is babes, many of us here PLAYED BY THE FUCKING RULES TO A TEE.....and got fucking screwed in the process!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DesertFlower]

64. K&R. nt

[tea and oranges]

65. A Realization

Listening to this conversation between 2 great Americans reaffirms so many thoughts I've had, causes me to re-think certain ideas I've entertained, and realize that yes, despite the right's effort to claim the word patriot as their own, it has been the efforts of the progressives that made this a great country. Progressives created every positive aspect of our nation and the right wants to destroy every aspect of that. We can't let them!

[DesertFlower]

71. i agree. welcome to DU.

[Blue_Tires]

70. kick for later

[Safetykitten]

80. Excellent.

[TheKentuckian]

82. Kick to the sky!

[shanti]

92. k&r

malignant narcissism is rampant in this society. when you have a media that flaunts the have-mores and their posessions (kardashians, hiltons, beckhams, etc.) in front of the have nots, you have a very sick society.

[guardian]

97. K&R thanks n/t

[Tommy_Carcetti]

98. Bill Moyers and Garrison Keillor. Proof positive that the US is capable of producing great minds.

Always been a fan of them both. Actually met Moyers briefly when he gave a talk at my college.

For the face of America that is George W. Bush and reality television, it's comforting to know that there is a converse side showing people such as Moyers and Keillor who prove we too have our intellects.

[woo me with science]

100. Kick. nt