Are your knees sore yet?

[harmonicon]

I know it's involuntary, but I would think after so many knee-jerk reactions, it might start to hurt a bit.

I joined DU - after reading bits of it over the years - when I moved to the UK so that I could have a forum to discuss US issues and politics, which I would just do with friends at home. However, it seems like there is less and less discussion here lately. Every day I come and look at the front page, and 9/10 posts are just people making simple "this is something we all agree on!" statements with all of the responses being the same knee-jerk reactions.

Where is the subtlety? Where is the grey? Is it all really just black and white? When people do disagree, they're often labeled "trolls". Well, maybe we can disagree, and maybe instead of calling someone a troll or an idiot, we could discuss things, and perhaps your opinion or that person's opinion would change.

This isn't some "DU used to be great, and now it's crap!" thread which I also see a lot of. This is a, "what is this website to you?" thread. It's not that I don't respect people here or think they're not intelligent, but I just don't see the point of a lot of this. I don't think we should need so many posts which seem to be largely about validation. Can't we accept that there are things most of us agree on and then use our time to educate and inform one another? If there is a bit of dissension or debate as a result, I think that can be a good thing. It should engender discussion, where as now it seems to only generate factionalism.

[Grown2Hate]

1. Yeah! What he said!

:) But seriously... I tend to agree. There seem to be two groups on DU now... those who think President Obama can do no wrong, and those that believe he can do no right. And there doesn't seem to be much in the middle (or at least that's what I seem to be seeing). I seem to be one of the few who can see his accomplishments and applaud where we've come in a couple of years, and can also see where he has disappointed and find regret. But more and more, there seem to be two camps, and I don't fit into either one. :shrug: I'll still hang around though... never a dull moment here, that's for sure. :)

[harmonicon]

3. I find the endless "outrage" to be pretty dull, to be honest.

I just ignore all of those threads now. I'm with you - sometimes good things happen, and sometimes bad things happen, but neither will likely completely change the world forever. I knew what I was getting with Obama, and now I know even more. Such is life. I would say that this is why elections and primaries matter, but those times seem to bring out the most factious elements rather than the opposite.

[Strelnikov_]

5. I think there are a lot in your, and my, camp

For me, why bother?

I have other things to do than engage in a "perfect being the enemy of the good" non-stop circlejerk.

[enlightenment]

7. I see a lot in the middle, but sensible and thoughtful

posts tend to get lost amidst the shrieking, wailing, and gnashing of teeth on both ends. There are many who take a very nuanced approach; unsurprisingly, they don't post as often - and I think they get very frustrated when their attempts at thoughtful discussion are reduced to more episodes of 'yer either with us or agin us'.

I admit that I tend to be one who is more critical - but I am critical of politicians in general and cast a very jaundiced eye on their machinations. I do not, however, belong to either the Hatfield's or the McCoy's (or a political party, for that matter), as I am also extremely critical of what I see as a largely failed political system in the U.S., and don't see the de facto two-party system as anything of which to be proud.

I have been browsing around DU for quite a number of years now and agree that the level of animosity has reached new levels. Understandable, perhaps, as there is no longer a clearly defined 'Other' at which to focus all the keyboard rage.

[movonne]

11. And some could be paid to come here and disrupt and down

Obama...

[harmonicon]

13. There is certainly some of that.

There is a sort of script that disrupters follow, and once you know it it is quite transparent. There is no way, however, that that accounts for the majority of the factionalism that we see around here. I think if that were possibly, the largest industry in the world would be paid internet subversives. Hell, if it paid well, I'd be happy to do it. It's no worse than telemarketing but doesn't require the same type of shame-inducing personal contact.

[Fumesucker]

14. I wish you would include a link, I could really use the money..

I'm sure if you know that people are being paid to post on DU then you have some idea where to sign up for this largesse.

Since I'm pretty critical of much that Obama does I might as well get paid for posting my opinions if someone is handing out cash.

[deacon]

2. It's become ridiculous. Sad. n/t

[HereSince1628]

4. All those things? They are in the DU ver 1.0 archives

or that's the way it seems to those who remember the 'old days'...

Hahahahahahaha! Remember the attempt to make a rule that required a minimum number of sentences? Back when people really had something to say????

Hahahahahahaha!

[harmonicon]

6. I don't remember it, but I like the idea.

I understand that "K&R" has probably been too firmly established, but I don't understand it. Things being kicked to the top should happen as a matter of course due to discussion. Adding nothing to the discussion doesn't make me think it deserves to be kicked back to the top.

I did think that the "unrecommend" feature was great. I was pleased to hear that all recommend features would be gone in DU3, but the last preview of it seemed to include recommends. Oh well. I mostly come here to read the news, as it's selected by the community and not some profit-driven media enterprise. I don't imagine that will change.

[HereSince1628]

8. I think that rule's trial ballon was made of lead.

It may have lasted 48 hrs, but I remember it as rather less.

My point very simple...there has always been concern that posts weren't deep or nuanced enough.

[moondust]

9. I think a lot of it is solidarity.

A reaction to the insanity of the Right attacking Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, the manufactured debt ceiling crisis and holding the population hostage, calling Social Security a "Ponzi scheme," etc. Under such threats I think it's understandable that some people will have less tolerance for anything that may tend to be divisive. :)

[harmonicon]

10. That, I do get.

However, it seems to be almost all that gets posted. Once is more than enough. We don't need the same echo chamber every day. Once one person posts about it, and everyone else agrees, can't we move on? Do we really need someone to post almost exactly the same thing the next day with everyone once again just chiming in to say they agree?

Of course we all come here to be in a forum with like-minded people, and it's ok to reaffirm that at times, but shouldn't/couldn't it be a lot more than that?

[Fumesucker]

16. Not everyone reads every post every day..

It's impossible to keep up with DU even if you read every waking hour, people miss stuff, I see the same news stories posted time after time, often for weeks.

Things IRL set people off, they come here to vent a bit, a lot of us have no one at all IRL to talk politics with, it's not a particularly common obsession.

[harmonicon]

17. Of course we all come here as individuals.

I suppose I do have more time to read posts here than most do, but not having people to discuss politics with is why I'm here. If we aren't going to have discussions why post responses? Why not just read opinion pieces and feel good about it? I really liked Naomi Klein's pieces in The Nation, but never once did I write a letter to them consisting of "re: Klein's last column: K&R!!"

[Fumesucker]

19. It's a way to at least try to increase the exposure of something you agree with..

I've noticed over the years that flamebait gets far more real responses than anything else, the only time I get many replies is when I post something controversial and I don't do that very often.

[harmonicon]

20. I think the problem is that what should simply be controversial...

just turns into flame-bait, even when it's not intended to. People just taking a few deep breaths before posting could fix that.

[lunatica]

12. You're spitting in the wind

Nothing will change. Make a list of the people who endlessly complain or just want validation for their negative opinions and avoid them. That's what I've done.

There are plenty of thoughtful posters. Find out who they are and jump in to contribute to their OPs.

Or jump in just to throw a fact or two into the melee.

[harmonicon]

15. I do certainly find lots of worthwhile people and discussions here.

It is just a minority. Generally I don't put people on my ignore list until they demonstrate that they won't have a discussion under any circumstances, and that's rare.

I do - as evidenced by this - start threads sometimes about things that I find interesting, and the people I agree with usually respond, but I'd like more than that. I'd like for people to disagree without getting angry, and I don't see enough of that.

At home, I talk to my dad and my brother about politics. We're all leftists to some extent, but we don't always agree. We're still family when the talking's over though.

[Arctic Dave]

18. It seems validation and infotainment threads are driving almost everything else out.

If you present a nontraditional point of view you are whisked away or drowned out withou any meaningful retort. I have never put anyone on ignore or do I ever intend to. I enjoy discussions with differing opinions and that is hard to do if I allow myself to live in an echo chamber.