K&R if you disapprove of how NATO handled the Libya crisis.

[LadyLeigh]

All things considered.

[Arctic Dave]

1. I disapprove of any violent coup backed by foriegn militaries.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. It wasn't about oil...well...maybe not...a side issue but...

Of course, the West's involvement was about freedom and democracy. Not about (Perish the thought!) oil.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:






http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,782359 ...

Now, though, companies are hopeful that the incoming government -- however it might ultimately look -- will provide better conditions for doing business. During the meeting in Benghazi with the transitional council, the German economic leaders were assured that the private economy would be strengthened, says Meier-Ewert. Contracts signed with the Gadhafi regime are to be honored, and many Libyans with extensive business experience are planning to return from exile, the German delegation was told. "They make a very good impression," says Meier-Ewert.

Still, the Germans aren't the only ones who have begun exploring opportunities in post-Gadhafi Libya. Indeed, some companies are taking substantial risks in order to get their foot in the door early. The Italian oil concern Eni, for example, is doing what it can to defend its status as the largest foreign oil producer in the country. Even before the rebels stormed the Gadhafi residence in Tripoli this week, Eni technicians had begun preparing to restart the flow of oil. And Eni has the full support of the government in Rome. Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi is meeting with rebel leader Mahmoud Jibril on Thursday.

Pole Position for France

It is France, though, that could have the pole position when it comes to doing business with the new Libya. In March, Paris became the first Western capital to recognize the rebels' transitional council as Libya's legitimate government. Now Sarkozy hopes to not only profit from this, but also to set the tone for Libyan reconstruction. And he also has plans to meet with Jibril soon.

"Naturally it can be assumed that there will be a certain political gratitude," Meier-Ewert says.

[Frances]

3. Your pie chart indicates

that the U.S. didn't have that much at stake as far as oil from Libya goes (only 3% to us).

I think Obama handled the situation perfectly. He supported removing a tyrant, who was responsible for sponsoring terrorism that affected some of our citizens; for example, the bombing of the jet over Scotland. However, unlike Bush in Iraq, he worked with other governments, who contributed most of the money and weapons and manpower.

I think McCain, Lieberman, and Graham were the villains as far as the U.S. is concerned. They wanted to give military weapons to Gaddefi (sp?).

Of course, when the UN got involved, McCain flipped and flopped several times, the only constant being that he would have done things right and Obama was doing them wrong.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. The pie chart indicates that Obama supported European Goverments oil interests.

Read the attached article.

[Exilednight]

5. Go back and reread the article. Spain, Greece, France and Italy all receive at least

10% of their oil from Libya.

[EFerrari]

6. When people talk about removing tyrants, monsters and evil dictators

I have to wonder if they've ever studied any American history at all. Or any history, for that matter.

[Frances]

7. Are you referring to King George III?

[EFerrari]

13. De-colonizing the colonies and shedding a monarch we did not depose

is exactly like destabilizing Libya and recolonizing it financially, right?

[tabatha]

11. Quit laughing over another country's misery.

Shameful.

It has been reported today that there are 50,000 people missing that the NTC is desperately trying to find before it is too late. If these people are dead, then Gaddafi has killed 100,000 people this year - close to genocide.

[Starry Messenger]

8. k&r

[SavWriter]

9. Wouldn't it be better

To have a vote instead of a kick and rec option?

[tabatha]

10. An honourable intervention. A hopeful future

Take some of the supposed verities asserted over the six months since the revolutionary euphoria from Tunis and Cairo reached Benghazi. That air power alone could never tip the balance: that Britain and France couldn’t foot the bombing bill for long: that this was a civil war doomed to stalemate and a country carved haplessly in two: that Nato‘s intervention guaranteed hostility across too many Arab streets: that it was yet one more pending disaster in the Iraq or Afghan pattern. Then take another sip from this simple cup.

The motives of Cameron and Sarkozy, as they first ordered their planes into action, seemed more humanitarian and emotional than cynically calculated. There was no urgent reason in realpolitik to oust Gaddafi as winter passed. His last 10 years in power had been quieter than his first berserk three decades. Labour home secretaries spooned his soup and drank his wine. Tony Blair embraced him. Libya‘s oil contracts were not at issue (just as they aren’t today). The survival of Gaddafi’s regime may have been a moral affront, but it was one among many. No: what sent British jets across the Mediterranean was a perceived need to save lives.

Tunisia had risen and its dictator had fled. Egypt had risen and Mubarak was finished. Benghazi had risen and now Gaddafi’s tanks and planes were preparing vengeance. Could those who had the means to stop that stand by and declare what would happen next none of their business? A crucial decision, with Obama on the back foot and too much bruised British opinion feeling twice bitten, thrice shy. There was, and is, no great political dividend to be reaped: just a clear downside with not much of an upside. But, at heart, it was the right thing to do – a judgment call. And the events of the past seven days underline as much.

What do we find inside Gaddafi’s ransacked compounds and villas? The gold-coated bling of wild corruption. Inside his jails? Political prisoners enduring torture and neglect. Inside the boundaries of stronghold Tripoli? See how fast that all fell apart as the rebel advance quickened. Of course there are tough pockets of resistance still. This is messy, block-to-block warfare, with Sirte yet to fall. But Tripoli, en masse, feels much like the Benghazi that seized its own moment. It is glad that Gaddafi is gone. It wants to help create something better – and fit into a wider context.

http://shabablibya.org/news/an-honourable-intervention-a-hopeful-future

It was and is a very humanitarian mission - and the Libyans are tasting freedom from horrific oppression for the first time in 42 years. I don't give a damn about the pretty charts - but they indicate that WITH Gaddafi in power, they were buying oil from him. Why the heck would they want him out? In fact, there were moves afoot to get even "more into bed" with Gaddafi as revealed by WikiLeaks. That now, may not happen - as Libyans can now spend the money from their own resources on their own country.

http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/insidestory/2011/08/2011828101018236465.html

[tabatha]

12. Libya: Gaddafi Forces Suspected Of Executing Detainees

“Torture was rife in Gaddafi’s prisons but to execute detainees days before they would have been freed is a sickening low in the government’s behavior,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East and North Africa director at Human Rights Watch said. “The evidence we have been able to gather so far strongly suggests that Gaddafi government forces went on a spate of arbitrary killing as Tripoli was falling.”

Osama Hadi Mansur Al-Swayi was one of the survivors of the massacre at the Internal Security building. He was one of approximately 25 people who were held there. He told Human Rights Watch:

The Khamis Brigade took me on August 19. One of the guards in the house told me that if I am innocent, Khamis could solve my problems. It happened at 2 p.m. on Monday . We started hearing the rebels yelling Allahu Akbar. We were so happy, and we knew we would be released soon… Snipers were upstairs; then they came downstairs and started shooting. An old man were shot outside our door. ran out because they opened the door and said, “Quickly, quickly, go out.” They told us to lie down on the ground. When I opened my eyes, I saw three dark men. One soldier gave the order, “Just finish them off,” but I don’t know who it was. There were four of them who fired at us: one was an old man with a grey beard, and three were dark-skinned, maybe from the south. I was near the corner and got hit in the right hand, the right foot and the right shoulder. In one instant, they finished off all the people with me. What I saw I haven’t ever seen even in a movie. No one was breathing. Some of them had head wounds.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/08/28/libya-gaddafi-forces-suspected-executing-detainees