Juan Cole: Historical Question for Governor Perry

[pampango]

http://www.juancole.com/2011/08/historical-question-for-governor-perry.html

Dear Rick Perry:

I am a historian and if you will indulge me, I’d just like to ask you a question about historical parallels.

So if we were living in Germany’s Weimar Republic and it was 1930, and a politician warned a central banker that his policies were treasonous to the nation, and threatened to have him roughed up, and said that the current president did not love his country, can you tell me to what political party that politician most likely belonged?

[oberliner]

1. Stupid and cheap

Can we put a moratorium on Nazi comparisons?

[hobbit709]

2. quack and duck.

[oberliner]

4. Clever

I still don't think the analogy really fits - and even if it does, I think it's stupid to make it - because a comparison to Nazi Germany carries with it a lot of baggage, to say the least.

[RainDog]

3. when we can be an end to economic conditions that give rise to fascism

I guess we can put a moratorium on Nazi comparisons.

Because the reality is that economic instability and a govt. bleeding money to pay for war and the threat of deflation and a failing empire were the conditions that gave rise to the shame that was Nazi Germany.

[oberliner]

6. There have been other examples of fascism in history

Going to this particular one with all that is implicit in such a comparison, is, I think, unwarranted and unnecessary.

[hobbit709]

7. Well, he is a pompous clown like Benito.

[Enrique]

10. have you seen any recently in the United States?

any political figures, or strains of rhetoric?

I have, there seems to be a surge of that since 9/11.

[RainDog]

12. well, tell that to the glbt community - the religious nuts behind Perry support genocide of gays

with their support of religious/political groups in Uganda, for instance.

See, this is the problem with rational people - no one wants to believe that our fellow citizens would foam at the mouth and demand scapegoats - but the reality is that this has occurred throughout human history - and economic instability primes these moments.

Jews weren't hated simply for being Jewish. They were hated b/c they were associated with communism and socialism in Germany. Hess intro'd Hitler to the propaganda called The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, rewritten by a white Russian to implicate the Jews in a global conspiracy to undermine "white people" (i.e. good Germans) because so many of the leaders of the communist revolution were Jewish.

But that moment in history also drew on hundreds of years of anti-semitism in Europe that was created and fueled by religious conservatives - most notably the Catholic church. Without the religious "right wing" in Europe, antisemitism would not have had the hold it did - which was demonstrated by the way The Netherlands had greater religious tolerance for generations and by the way that Spain, when it was held by muslims, had more religious tolerance than it did when ruled by Catholics.

Religion offers the opportunity for irrational hatred.

Deflation and inflation created horrific conditions for people - one guy used his retirement income to pay for a trolley ride through Berlin and then killed himself because deflation has destroyed his savings during the Weimar Republic.

But Cole's point, imo, is to demonstrate that the right wing in this nation is not the representative of American values - or those values to which we aspire. The has always been the case when you look at our history, but people in this nation don't want to look at reality - they prefer to hear myths and pretend they are truths.

The reality is that the middle class was built by socialists and unions, not capitalists.

[eShirl]

14. +1 ... good points

[jwirr]

11. Absolutely - it is like the Holocaust - we dare not forget and we must

stop any tendencies toward fascism. Our nation is tending toward hatred and limitless control every day.

[Enrique]

8. not coming from Juan Cole

and I think with Rick Perry, people are erring too much on the side of caution with him, especially this last comment. Threatening the Fed Chair is no joke. Nor is talking about secession.

[starroute]

13. This is not merely a cheap slam at Perry's policies

You can find plenty of those online, people calling him a fascist or worse on the basis of his mixture of militarism, corporatism, and fundamentalism.

But this is something very different. A large part of what was going on during the rise of fascism in Italy in the 1920s and the rise of Naziism in Germany in the 1930s was an undermining of democratic norms of discourse and their replacement by violence or the threat of violence.

It's the rhetoric of "treason" and "getting ugly" that's so disturbing -- especially coupled with Perry's talk of secession. It suggests someone who is willing to use the democratic process if it can get him what he wants, but will eagerly subvert it or act outside it if that seems more useful.

That's what would be most dangerous in a Perry candidacy -- and Cole is right to call attention to it.

[RainDog]

15. yes. excellent observations n/t

[adhd_what_huh]

5. yes...yes he is a fascist..

[sadbear]

9. Don't forget that he wore jackboots in college.