question for the folks who are continually obsessed with bashing Obama..

[snooper2]

The ones who are using the exact same talking points I hear Laura Ingram :puke: use...

The ones who really believe he is a corporate sell-out and in it for the elite. - Which is the exact polar-opposite of what Mark Levin spews. But of course both have sources and examples(daily). Cracks me up :P

When the election is in full swing starting around the 4th of July weekend 2012, are you going to be supportive at all? Or just tell us how he lost that debate with Rick Perry because he wasn't "strong" enough or "stumbled without a teleprompter" (ie: Laura the @#%#!! again).



I'm really fucking curious at this point....

[Marr]

1. What is this magical "support" that Obama's biggest fans constantly talk about?

Are you under the assumption that thousands of happy thoughts will change reality? If you're asking if I plan to volunteer for the man this time around, I can say with certainty that I will not.

And by he way, the fact that there are some lunatics screaming the exact opposite of what Obama's critics on the left say does not mean the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[snooper2]

5. DU is not represenative of America as a whole...

Everyone I know who contributed, put out signs, canvassed and more plan to again this time around.


Basically the same lines and people who supported Bush vs. Obama last time at my work, are still in the exact same camps. I'm talking about the couple 100-1000 regular posters here in GD.

.00001% of the population

[dtexdem]

8. I was an Obama supporter through the primaries, an Obama delegate to my state convention.

I donated, canvassed, and fully supported Obama through the general election. I rejoiced at his election and sat rapt at the televising of his inauguration.

I may or may not vote for him in 2012; but I WILL NOT be working for his election.

[SusanaMontana41]

63. We have much in common.

Every word, in fact. Especially the final sentence. :hi:

[closeupready]

42. You say that nothing's changed, but you guys sound AWFULLY WORRIED.

Why is that, hmmm? :shrug:

[sabrina 1]

44. And yet,his latest poling number is 39%!

And if DU is not representative of the country as a whole, why is there an OP like this every day?

DUers supported him when others thought he didn't have a chance of winning, so I guess they were representative then.

If DU is not representative, why not just ignore people whose opinions here of the President have changed?

But my friends and others who supported him in the last election are completely disappointed in him now. So, who knows? All he has to do is stop supporting Republican ideas and start acting like a Democrat and people will support him again.

[jberryhill]

30. I guess the magical poll responders who prefer him over "generic Republican"

The thing about candidate "generic Republican" is that "generic" has no personal negatives.

Every one of the candidates with a name does have personal negatives.

[Erose999]

48. Generic Republican: Descriptor used to indicate a Republican without identifying a single candidate

to avoid tainting a sample with the association of a particular Republican candidate's favorable or unfavorable personal traits.

See also: Obama, Barack

[Mr Dixon]

58. IMO

Them vote for Perry and be happy

[DontTreadOnMe]

2. I must be "obsessed" since I am so disappointed with the Obama Admin so far

Question for the folks who can't under the disappointment with Obama:

Is it really that hard to see why many Democrats feel that Obama is not being the leader they feel the country needs, right now?

[TheWraith]

4. You make the unfounded assumption that "many" Democrats feel that way.

When in fact polling shows that the disaffected left is a tiny, tiny minority.

[frylock]

13. then why the obsession with this tiny, tiny minority that should have no effect on his reelection?

if this tiny, tiny minority is as insignifigant as many here proclaim, then why not allow this tiny, tiny minority to grouse? what threat is this tiny, tiny minority to the obama juggernaut that receives an astounding level of approval from "liberal democrats?"

[TheWraith]

14. Here on DU? For starters, this place is supposed to be a safe-haven for Democrats.

Instead, it has been largely dominated by a screaming horde of people who use this place for nothing better than bashing Obama and other Democrats 24/7, as much and as often as they can, regardless of the facts, and heaping abuse on anyone who doesn't agree with them, calling people freepers, conservadems, stupid, weak, Obamabots, clueless, etcetera. It's not "reasoned disagreement" when nine times out of ten the claims are just factually false, crap dredged up and plastered around the blogosphere by professional muckrakers who don't give a damn about anything other than the traffic they can draw and the money they can make.

So tell me, if your favorite getaway became infested with pigeons who just sat there all day shitting on everything, how would you feel about it, even if someone pointed out to you that it was really a minor problem with no real impact on the world at large?

[frylock]

16. take it up with the mods..

there are rules in place. if rules are being broken, feel free to report such infractions to the moderators.

[TheWraith]

23. I have. In fact, I'm sure the mods are sick of hearing from me.

I'll keep at it however, because every time one of the screamers steps over the line and gets a post deleted, it's one step closer to the admins realizing that catering to a small minority of perpetually angry people creates a hostile atmosphere here. I look forward to the day when most of the conversations are again about things that help advance Democrats and a Democratic agenda rather than tearing them down.

[frylock]

27. you are part of the small minority..

it's not surprising to me that you deem the large majority of people who are not very happy with obama's performance to date as a minority. there's really only about 20 or so people like yourself, if that, trying to squelch any opinion that reflects poorly on obama. that's indeed a small minority.

[TheWraith]

39. The majority of DUers enthusiastically support President Obama. So do the vast majority of liberals.

The numbers back me up: around 85% of liberal Democrats consistently approve of Obama's job performance, and trying to recast your side as a silent majority is nothing more than bald-faced attempt at spin.

[frylock]

45. you have the numbers of people on "DU that enthusiastically support President Obama?"

just check the greatest page any given day. that will give you a pretty good idea of how the "silent majority" feels.

[TheWraith]

60. 52%, according to the poll which was posted today.

And the Greatest page reflects the fact that good news of any kind is systematically unrecced to the point where it's gotten to be a joke.

[frylock]

64. well then, i'll refer you to my original question..

why the obsession with this tiny, tiny minority that should have no effect on his reelection?

[TheWraith]

65. And I'll refer you to my response.

I'll agree to let you fill DU with Obama-bashing without complaining, when you uncomplainingly allow me to fill your living room with howler monkeys.

[jberryhill]

32. +1

Count me in as well.

Whenever the services at "Our Lady of Perpetual Outrage" ends and those people flood the streets, it is annoying as all get out.

[SidDithers]

17. Well said...nt

Sid

[Number23]

21. +a bazillion. You lost points for not mentioning the shadowy "Third Way" in mysterious and menacing

ways. Otherwise, you would have gotten a + a brazillion. :)

if your favorite getaway became infested with pigeons who just sat there all day shitting on everything,

That is the most perfect, most accurate, most apt description of DU/GD I've seen all year. DAMN!

[TheWraith]

24. Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week.

Or all... (checks profile)... Holy crap, it's been seven years.

[Wait Wut]

38. This ^

I came here because the upgrade to TPM prevented me from kicking back there. I had stalked this site for awhile, but wasn't terribly interested in a "forum" site. I preferred the dry humor reporting of Josh Marshall and the respectful debates of TPMers (even with our beloved right-wing trolls).

Once TPM was unavailable to me, I searched for another similar site to no avail. DKos was a brief home, but I quickly tired of the negativity and lack of civility. Once Blackwaterdog left (love you!!!) I left within a few days. So, I came here.

There are many here that I respect and admire. Others, not so much. I've been on the side of "why can't we just all get along" for most of my stay. It's useless. I can only hope that someday my boss will find a couple grand laying around and get me a new computer.

There are ways to have good debates and still remain respectful and civil. With the upcoming DU3, the "unrec" will go away. While I don't necessarily believe that's a "good" thing, at least the childish "auto-unreccers" will be silenced.

Safe haven for Democrats? Not a chance. I've never had my loyalty to Democrats challenged until I came here. It's disgusting.

[LWolf]

41. That means it should be a safe Haven for Democratic values,

not neoliberals.

[frylock]

46. right?

[polmaven]

54. So let me see if I have this straight......

"Democratic values" are limited to the far left, and anyone who isn't liberal enough is not a Democrat! Is that correct?

[LWolf]

66. Wrong.

I didn't say anything at all about the "far left," and it's very doubtful if DU can find consensus on what constitutes the "far left." I said it should not be a Haven for neo-liberals. Because neo-liberals do not support Democratic values.

[polmaven]

69. Well,

what is your definition, then, of "neo-liberal"?

[LWolf]

70. Neoliberalism is an economic system.

It refers to unfettered, unregulated capitalism; deregulation; privatization; Keynesian economics, to put it simplistically. Neo-liberals are those who support neo-liberalism, of course.

There's plenty out there on neo-liberalism; start here:

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=376

[TheWraith]

61. Case in point: bashing and denigrating anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Because clearly, anyone who is a TRUE liberal cannot possibly support Democrats.

[LWolf]

67. What case are you trying to make a point with?

I didn't say anything about "TRUE" liberals supporting, or not supporting, Democrats.

I said if DU is going to be a haven for Democrats, it can't be a haven for neo-liberals, because neo-liberals oppose Democratic values.

Please don't put words in my mouth. Address my point, or not, but don't try to twist it into something it's not.

[TheWraith]

71. You are asserting that anyone who disagrees with you can't REALLY be a Democrat.

A classic ad hominem attack to denigrate the opinions of anyone not you.

[LWolf]

72. No, I'm not.

I'll assume that YOU suffer from dysfunctional comprehension, rather than trying to attack me with an outright falsehood.

I'm asserting that neo-liberalism and neo-liberals are in conflict Democratic values.

[jtown1123]

51. I think most posts that criticize are very thoughtful and factual. n/t

[MilesColtrane]

59. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[CC]

3. Good luck getting an actual answer.

But the type that do that worry me more than any republicon since they tend to do more damage. My thoughts on it are, if they want him to tack left get a majority of left leaning congress-people and senators in the Capital. A 60 plus majority in the Senate since that seems to be the minimum required under the rules as they are now. Find the people to run, work your ass off getting them elected. If it doesn't work this time around go at it again next time. Seems some voters have no more spine than the party.

Thing is on Obama,imho he seemed center to center right when he was running, add in realities of office etc and where he is now isn't surprising or that drastic of a difference. Course he hasn't seemed as bad to me as the media paints him either. There is a reason I will go out of my way to hear without a media filter.



Edited to add- Does he disappoint me sometimes, yes. Is it worth a Pres. Perry , Bachmann or Romney...Hell NO. Then again I have yet to see an elected official that hasn't disappointed me sometimes. It is up to each person to decide it they want to be destructive or constructive.

[dtexdem]

6. I'm not continually obsessed with bashing Obama -- just when I'm on DU.

;-)

I AM continually obsessed with bashing any politician who suggests cuts to SS or Medicare. Especially one who is continually obsessed with suggesting such cuts. Unfortunately, that puts Obama right into my "obsession."

[SammyWinstonJack]

12. +10000!

:thumbsup:

[boston bean]

7. simplistic conclusion you offer there, and cute way to call people freepers.

They are NOT the same criticisms.

[treestar]

9. In your third paragraph you have it

There may be support, but it strikes me as likely that it is the same people - the ones who, back during the 2008 campaign, were here every day with chicken little posts about how he was going to lose. The only one I can remember now was that 30 minute TV spot and how that was going to hurt him and he'd lose because of it. But there were many.

[icymist]

10. I'm not one to normally criticize the President

And this President hasn't escaped criticism, I just can't but wonder if what this man is doing is for the good of all of us. I mean, look at where we are all at right now... The patriot act, free trade, NAFTA, WTO, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and more. I think this President has a hell of a lot to deal with and then the Congress hits him with the bullshit of the Dept Ceiling. Now that was a fiasco! Being President is a hard job. I guess I'm saying that I'm standing by Obama because there is nobody else. And he still does his job.

Edit because I am a perfectionist! I eliminitated bad grammar!

[Union Scribe]

11. Quit whining.

[H2O Man]

15. I'm curious

as to what your goal is, in posting this OP?

[eridani]

18. Laura Ingraham doesn't like corporations? Who knew? n/t

[Odin2005]

19. What about those obsessed with defending Obama for things we slammed W for?

[Poll_Blind]

22. Too true.

PB

[Morning Dew]

28. +1

[woo me with science]

31. [phone] Thank you. nt

[loyalsister]

47. Or for not doing things that W did?

executive orders signing statements bullying congress- generally behaving like a dictator to push his agenda.

[ProgressIn2008]

53. Exactly. nt

[dionysus]

20. this aint gonna go well...

[Horse with no Name]

25. I couldnt tell you because I have never listened to the things that you speak of

That's your speed, not mine. In fact, I find that most of the die hard supporters listen to these types of shows. I don't know what that is about.

I just call em as I see em.

[CoachMcGuirk]

26. Can you please explain why...

you dont think Obama's record shows that he is clearly in favor of policies widely supported by corporate America?

Free trade, private insurance mandates, pre-emptive war, charter schools/privitization, the degradation of our civil liberties, entitlement "reform". Those are all things that Obama supports, and that the oligarchs who run this country also support. How is that not true?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. Holding a public servant and leader of our party accountable is not "bashing".

[GreenPartyVoter]

37. +1,000,000

[closeupready]

43. Obama on grass roots accountability: "hold me ... accountable for [my] actions."

>>And Barack Obama wants us to hold him more accountable for his actions. He said so himself: "We must form grass-root structures that would hold me and other elected officials more accountable for their actions." <<

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/16/660885/-Obama:-hold-me-and-other-elected-officials-more-accountable

[loyalsister]

49. How does that translate?

into him being a closet republican, corporatist.....

Holding him accountable is what we should do. Adding accusations enables the other side.

[closeupready]

52. Don't dishonestly imply that his critics here are all extremists.

Most of his critics here have been very fair and have weighed their criticisms very carefully before posting them here. Some are over-the-top, but those are the exceptions. And, at the same time, some of his 'no matter what' supporters here are equally over-the-top.

[loyalsister]

55. I did not make that claim

but, I wasn't clear.

"Holding him accountable is what we should do. Adding accusations enables the other side."

my missing sentence:
"I do believe that most people intend to hold him accountable. Unfortunately there are also people wielding unreasonable accusations"

[closeupready]

56. Okay, yes, I agree with that.

Cheers.

[woo me with science]

33. Here we go again.

:eyes:

[piratefish08]

34. i have an obsession and you ask me how I will control it?!?

it's a OBSESSION man! you don't understand the nature of an obsession.

out. of. my. control.


anyhow, we're an inconsequential, fringiest of fringes, whiner's club type of group. negligible to the vote, so they say. what we say or do won't matter.


until it does.

[Ganja Ninja]

35. So what you're saying is it will be all our fault if Obama loses in 2012 because we won't ...

all line up like sheep and sing his praises.

[truebrit71]

36. Would he have been the nominee if he had told us up-front...

..that he actually WASN'T going to close Gitmo (as he said he would), that he was going to get a health care package WITHOUT single payer (as he said he would), that he would PROLONG the war in Afghanistan(as he said he wouldn't), that he would NOT actually walk the picket lines when unions were threatened(as he said he would), that he would NOT end the Bush tax-gifts to the rich (as he said he would)...never mind re-election, he wouldn't have even been the fucking nominee!!!

So save me your righteous indignation that folks call him out when his major flaws and failings are pointed out...Is he better than McCain or Romney or Perry? Yes, of course he is, by a country mile, but I didn't think the yardstick we were supposed to be using for our President was "Well at least he's not as fucked in the head as those other guys"...

If that's the best he can come up with, then he is in for a REALLY tough time...

[LWolf]

40. I don't even know who Laura Ingram is.

Probably because I don't gift talking media heads with my time or attention. What makes me :puke: is the sad reality that the majority of our nation actually seems to need people on tv or the radio to help them shape their thinking or positions.

I "really believe" Obama is a neo-liberal who has been a disaster for the party and the nation. I've been upfront with that since '07. It's unfortunate that I've been proved correct.

I assume you are asking what I'm going to be doing on DU starting around the 4th of July next year, since you refer to telling "us."

I expect that whatever time I have to spend on DU at that point will be spent in my state forum, on state races, and in the book forum and a few other places. I expect that I won't be discussing Obama at all, at least not on DU.


Why do the words of anonymous posters on a censored message board carry such a fascination for you?

[B Calm]

50. Obama will have to do something extraordinary liberal between now

and the election if he expects my vote. I like to see NAFTA repealed, or at least make some attempt to repeal it. I'd like to see fair trade tariffs again like we once had.

[Mr Dixon]

57. IMO

This should be worth a laugh, more than half the people on this site bash OBAMA for everything, and next it will be his fault that water is wet. SMH

[SusanaMontana41]

62. Great question!

I want to vote for someone, not against someone. Obama angers me; the prospect of a Romney or a Perry appointing Supreme Court justices scares me.

Whether Obama gets my vote will be a game-time decision.

[Javaman]

68. IBTL. nt