Poll: Can the President win in 2012 without progressive votes?

[grahamhgreen]

And if not, what is he willing to do to get them?

[rampart]

1. without the active participation of progressives

campaigning, getting out the vote, calling etc

he can raise $Billion and lose big.

[NYC Liberal]

2. He is overwhelmingly supported by liberal Democrats.

Do you mean progressives outside of the Democratic party?

[Rex]

4. No a small group here think there is a radical arm of the Democratic Party

that hates Obama and that is all they obsess over day and night. Sometimes their obsession pays off, but most time it is all gnashing and foam. That is all I can come up with at the moment.

[grahamhgreen]

9. Both.

What percentage of the progressive vote can he afford to lose before he can no longer win?

If all the progressives withold their vote as a block, can he win at all?

How far to the right can he continue make policy before the vote is irretrievable?

Is he willing to compromise with progressives to get their vote?

[scheming daemons]

3. moot question.... he'll have their vote

Don't mistake du "progressives" for progressives as a whole.

[moksha]

7. And, like in 2010, they'd be blamed regardless. I am still waiting

for evidence that Dems lost in 2010 because liberals didn't vote out of 'protest' or something like that.

[joshcryer]

14. No, the argument was that Get Out The Vote was abysmal...

...because the progressive base didn't give a shit.

edit: 82 million voted in 2010, 131 million voted in 2008. Almost 50 million people chose not to vote.

[Union Scribe]

20. No, moksha is right.

I've seen that very thing stated repeatedly here, but I've never seen what you described.

[joshcryer]

22. The "fringes" are the vote getters. The Teabaggers GOTV, we didn't, it's pretty much indisputable.

The more embarrassing argument is that "Blue Dogs lost because they weren't progressive enough," because, if true, it would only lead credence to the fact that the progressives didn't GOTV (get out the vote).

[joshcryer]

12. Correct.

[grahamhgreen]

13. Why do you think so?

[JDPriestly]

17. The question wasn't whether he will get progressives' votes

but whether he can win without them.

[Maru Kitteh]

18. agreed

[grahamhgreen]

26. From Firedog Lake posters:

"There is a real hunger in me to punish the Obama administration. Please, somebody talk me down."

"No. No, I’m not going to talk you down. He needs to be punished. They need to be punished. We need to un-elect them to have any shred of credibility left as a progressive organizing force."

"Yes, the Democrats were too stupid to learn the lesson from 2000. They need it pounded home again. It will only take a few percent to defeat Obama. I refuse to vote for putting Medicare eligibility on the table or means testing Socia Security."

"I can’t talk you off the ledge VMT, but I will hold your hand as we jump together. At this point, no Republican can damage the Safety Net or the New Deal as much as Obama can. Not even Michelle (I Hear Voices) Bachmann, or Rick (Head and Shoulders) Perry. Remember that only Nixon could go to China -same principle. As for the Supreme Court, there are currently two sitting justices that could easily be impeached – provided that Congress and the White House have the stones to bring charges."

"Well hell, I’m in good company around here. :-) Anyway, I think you guys had some good advice on simply writing in a candidate. I seriously find it hard to punch a hole next to Romney or Obama."

"I wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire."

"Move aside Barack. We're sending in a new pitcher."

[swilton]

33. I couldn't have said it any better.

[scheming daemons]

35. Yeah, yeah... Internet Tough guys... until they see and hear Rick Perry for 6 months

They'll run to the booth to vote for Obama.

[okieinpain]

38. Actually I hope the repugs win. The progressives deserve them. N/T.

[BzaDem]

5. He won't need to. The vast majority of progressives will vote for him, even most of those who

currently claim they won't. He has the highest approval among Democrats among all Presidents in the past 5 decades.

[Shagbark Hickory]

6. It depends on where. In floreeduh, no. In Vermont, yes he can win

[McCamy Taylor]

8. We should be asking can he win in 2012 without working class votes. The answer is NO.

Plenty of progressives are doing just fine under Obama. It is those folks who "cling to their guns and religion" that will be the undoing of the Democratic Party. Because every single one of them is either out of work, uninsured, lacks health care---or knows someone else who is. Poverty and death are knocking at their doors. They are scared and they do not believe that anyone in Washington cares.

[grahamhgreen]

10. So, he may actually lose both camps if he stays on his present trajectory....

[McCamy Taylor]

19. The progressives who are doing well financially will turn out to vote against the GOP nutjob

whoever it happens to be, because they will be scared shitless of all the talk about no gay marriage and outlawing abortion. The social issues are always more important when your money is secure.

Obama must appeal to those who are slowly descending into poverty. Right now the nation trusts Democrats more than Republicans when it comes to the economy, but if Obama keeps acting like a Republican, he will lose that trust, and they will start calling him the "elite" one. Didn't you see the big front page spread in the FW paper today about how Perry is just a small town, regular kind of guy?

[BzaDem]

21. What is your polling evidence that he is losing progressives, or that he isn't doing extremely well

with them?

[grahamhgreen]

24. The recent vote in the House. In it, the Progressive caucus was unified against the President. He

only won with a majority Republican support.

More R's voted with him than D's.

His policy positions put him in direct conflict with Progressive goals (indeed, the goals of the majority of Americans are progressive positions - see chart from June)




Here are some comments from Firedog lake... so the real question becomes, not WILL he lose progressive votes if he stays on course, but, what percentage has he lost, will it cost him the election, and how many more votes will he lose with his call for outsourcing jobs, de-funding SS, and signing the cat-food commission budget into law?

And even more important - why does he not implement a few progressive positions to bring them back into the fold?


"There is a real hunger in me to punish the Obama administration. Please, somebody talk me down."

"No. No, I’m not going to talk you down. He needs to be punished. They need to be punished. We need to un-elect them to have any shred of credibility left as a progressive organizing force."

"Yes, the Democrats were too stupid to learn the lesson from 2000. They need it pounded home again. It will only take a few percent to defeat Obama. I refuse to vote for putting Medicare eligibility on the table or means testing Socia Security."

"I can’t talk you off the ledge VMT, but I will hold your hand as we jump together. At this point, no Republican can damage the Safety Net or the New Deal as much as Obama can. Not even Michelle (I Hear Voices) Bachmann, or Rick (Head and Shoulders) Perry. Remember that only Nixon could go to China -same principle. As for the Supreme Court, there are currently two sitting justices that could easily be impeached – provided that Congress and the White House have the stones to bring charges."

"Well hell, I’m in good company around here. :-) Anyway, I think you guys had some good advice on simply writing in a candidate. I seriously find it hard to punch a hole next to Romney or Obama."

"I wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire."

"Move aside Barack. We're sending in a new pitcher."

[Douglas Carpenter]

11. no he can't - but he will get the overwhelming majority of the progressive vote

even from those like myself who thinks he is acting something like a somewhat more reasonable Republican if there was such a thing anymore.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. He's trying his damnedest to find out.

[saras]

16. If TPTB want him to have a second term, they will install him.

[BlueIris]

28. Mainstream media won't agree to spin an election victory it can't sell.

So I doubt it will matter what TPTB want. They're done with him, anyway, though, I think. I just hope his replacement, a decent guy, will be able to fight with them more effectively than Obama has.

[quaker bill]

23. No progressive will allow

republicans to take the Whitehouse in 2012. Some people who label themselves "progressives" might sit this one out and lose an otherwise valid claim to the label. It is progressive to act to refuse to allow the worst possible outcome, even if the outcome you get is only somewhat better.

[grahamhgreen]

25. These Progressives are having none of it

from Firedog lake:

"There is a real hunger in me to punish the Obama administration. Please, somebody talk me down."

"No. No, I’m not going to talk you down. He needs to be punished. They need to be punished. We need to un-elect them to have any shred of credibility left as a progressive organizing force."

"Yes, the Democrats were too stupid to learn the lesson from 2000. They need it pounded home again. It will only take a few percent to defeat Obama. I refuse to vote for putting Medicare eligibility on the table or means testing Socia Security."

"I can’t talk you off the ledge VMT, but I will hold your hand as we jump together. At this point, no Republican can damage the Safety Net or the New Deal as much as Obama can. Not even Michelle (I Hear Voices) Bachmann, or Rick (Head and Shoulders) Perry. Remember that only Nixon could go to China -same principle. As for the Supreme Court, there are currently two sitting justices that could easily be impeached – provided that Congress and the White House have the stones to bring charges."

"Well hell, I’m in good company around here. :-) Anyway, I think you guys had some good advice on simply writing in a candidate. I seriously find it hard to punch a hole next to Romney or Obama."

"I wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire."

"Move aside Barack. We're sending in a new pitcher."

[quaker bill]

27. Then their claim to the label is suspect.

to put it politely.

[quaker bill]

31. On another note

A political party is an artificial construct which cannot be "punished". Saying this is the same as saying you are going to put a corporation in prison. It is a stupid concept right from the start. The only thing which can in fact be punished are the people, and if 8 years of GWB was not sufficient "punishment", then perhaps we should give up on the concept.

[swilton]

34. Conversely

I don't think progressives will vote for candidates who favor cutting medicare and social security - touche!

[Joe the Revelator]

29. Define progressive....otherwise there is no way to answer this question.

If the answer is someone who would rather have the country fall apart instead of making the grown up decision to compromise, then yes, he can win without them.

[LoZoccolo]

30. No, so it's a good thing that 81% of liberal Democrats approve of him! n/t

[ecstatic]

32. Can he win without anarchists, firebaggers and Naderites?

Sure. True progressives are part of the base and always vote Democratic in major elections. No democrat can win an election without the base voting. But, let's be clear, anyone considering anything other than voting for the Democratic incumbent is NOT progressive/liberal/or democratic.

[swilton]

36. Totally disagree

During this administration core pillars of the 2008 Democratic Platform were undercut:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/5580817/2008-Democratic-Party-Platform-Renewing-Americas-Promise

Part I Renewing the American Dream
Jumpstart the Economy and Provide American Families Immediate Relief
• Affordable quality healthcare coverage for all Americans
• Good Jobs with Good Pay
• New American Energy


Progressives will not vote for candidates who want to cut medicare and social security which for decades have been the corner stones of Democratic Party values.

The Naderites, anarchists and firebaggers were not in the Democratic camp anyway.

[TroglodyteScholar]

37. He can't win without them...

...but he won't have to win without them. Progressives will find themselves pleased to vote for Obama after those other guys figure out which clueless prick they're going to put up against him.