If Obama loses in 2012, how do you think the 15% will be viewed by the 85%?

[LoZoccolo]

[neverforget]

1. you mean the haves and have nots?

[RKP5637]

2. Time to form a new country. n/t

[kentuck]

3. Don't you think it might be better...?

If you tried to resolve the differences, rather than vilifying and issuing ultimatums??

[bluestate10]

9. Interesting, coming from one that seems to do nothing but issue ultimatums. nt

[joshcryer]

12. Heh

Whole point of OP was to flip the rhetoric back. Personally I don't see a need for it, but then, that might make me 'weak.'

[bluestate10]

17. I was not writing about the OP. I agree with the OP. nt

[joshcryer]

19. My "heh" was ironic.

I think your post was funny given the irony of someone complaining about "ultimatums" who issues them regularly.

[pinboy3niner]

64. Agree or not, the OP is just more flamebait

The author could have posted a serious question (perhaps with some exposition).

As posed, this obviously is not intended as a serious question.

[joshcryer]

4. Unfavorably.

But this is the United States, we'll sit by complacently and just muse about our own internal factionalization.

It would likely mean the end of the Democratic Party.

[leftstreet]

5. You think he might lose? n/t

[joshcryer]

7. Doubtful.

It's a divisive thread.

[patrice]

6. Not well, not even by most of those who either don't vote or vote against PO

[Bluenorthwest]

8. Gosh, even if he loses he will get more than 15% of the vote.

Don't be so pessimistic.

[griffi94]

10. about the same as they are now

[whatchamacallit]

11. Who gives a shit?

I will vote my conscience and own it.

[Bluebear]

13. You forecast O-man gets 15 percent of votes? Nonsense

[joshcryer]

15. No, if he loses by 15% of the 50% necessary to win, etc.

The supposed "15% liberal base," that dislikes him in the polls.

[negativenihil]

14. Gee, wont it be awesome

to have a republican president again! Golly! :sarcasm:

:evilfrown:

[DerekG]

16. I couldn't care less what the 85% thinks

I don't vote for center-rightists. Period.

[bluestate10]

20. I will advise family and friends not to vote for progressives.

Further, I will withhold funding from progressives. If you think what I wrote sounds foolish, try looking at yourself in a mirror.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheKentuckian]

45. No, it sounds about right. Folks support as they believe, that is how it works.

[Upton]

18. I don't care what others think....no more lesser of two evils for me..

I'm voting my conscience and my principles....

[Motown_Johnny]

22. So the greater of two evils is what your conscience is guiding you to?

curious

[emilyg]

40. Many of us feel the same way.

[Divine Discontent]

21. will they be able to ask and get his forgiveness still as suggested before? ha

I think it's best to keep strongly on the president to stand up for Democratic policies, and tough cookie if some think people are too hard on the president for calling on him to stop protecting the rich and focus on jobs. Meanwhile, every Democrat hopefully will vote for the president for re-election, he's not been great, but he need a Dem Congress like before that pushed through Cash for Clunkers and the stimulus, instead of the GOP House that is against tax revenue, which the GOP is harshly against, and wants to cut from the mouths of the poor starving, and from the sickly. They're sick and we must give the president another majority in the House again. There are sick bigots in power there now, but we can't heal this party until the accusations stop.



http://www.cafepress.com/barackobama12

[hulka38]

61. Not great? He completely sucks

[Divine Discontent]

94. completely is extreme imho. however, he's had a very bad year, absolutely horrible, and that means

we've had a horrible year as citizens. The first year was a B considering what he was handed, and there's no way in heck he could get things turned around in a couple years, and since the teahadists have gotten the House, it's put a griding halt to positive things like Cash for Clunkers and the rebates for Green appliances. These asshat GOPers are hellbent on destroying this country to somehow take back the White House. I am a very critical DUer concerning Obama, but I think he is only as good as the House & Senate we give him, otherwise, he'll capitulate, but --- the obvious alternative is Pres. Bachmann/Perry/Romney, so we have to get Congress fully blue again because we know from this year he is having a hard time not doing everything wrong except getting Bin L.



http://www.cafepress.com/barackobama12

[hulka38]

116. He'll capitulate regardless.

"completely is extreme imho" - Ok. Well we both think he sucks then, but I'm extreme because I think it's complete suckage and you're moderate and sensible because you think it's merely suckage.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

41. What's a firebagger? Why are they "pussies"? What is pussy used for here?

[Renew Deal]

24. The 15% is typically the same 15% every election...

republicans registered as Democrats. It's the same way for the republican party. Though I don't think it's really 15% for either party. It's closer to 10%.

[WillyT]

25. This May Come As A Shock To You, But... I Truly Couldn't Care Less...

:shrug:

:hi:

[Firebrand Gary]

27. You certainly know how to "tow the line" with your statements.

I am not going to play your game, trust is something you have to earn. It is done so in dialog, not making a grey statement and leaving out substance and explanation.

[LoZoccolo]

30. It's not a statement.

[Firebrand Gary]

37. Haha, thanks for confirming EXACTLY what I was saying.

You are too funny.

[sabrina 1]

84. Why do you want this President to lose the election?

[LoZoccolo]

85. I don't want the president to lose this election.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

130. the proper idiom is "toe the line"

[mitchtv]

28. someone help! I accidentally recommended this!

not

[kentuck]

29. Is that a threat?

What would the 85% think of the 15%? Do they not want the 15%? If they do, then they should start acting like it.

[LoZoccolo]

32. It's a question.

[kentuck]

34. What motivated such a question?

What do you think the 85% will think about the 15%??

[LoZoccolo]

35. I thought it was important to reflect on it.

[kentuck]

36. When I reflect upon it...

I think the 85% should be working to get that 15% back into the fold? How do you think they might do that? What would they have to do to win that 15%? Can you think of anything??

[Zorra]

31. If Obama loses, it will be totally his own fault. If he had governed like a Democrat,

there would be chance of his losing in 2012.

[LoZoccolo]

33. Nader's vote shrank around 90% from 2000 to 2004.

[Fumesucker]

39. And Kerry still lost to The Worst President Ever..

By 2004 everyone knew just what Bush was.

[Zorra]

42. That won't make it any less Obama's own fault if he loses.

I'm still planning to vote for Obama if I have no other choice, but one more little slap in the face and I'm totally done with him.

[BzaDem]

48. Unless Obama votes for the Republican nominee, it is not Obama's fault.

In a democracy, the people are the ones that vote, and the people are accountable for that choice. If anyone chooses the non-Obama candidate, they are fully 100% responsible for that choice (unless they were under duress in the voting booth).

[Zorra]

59. If a candidate gets elected to office, and goes and hangs out at the beach

for four years and does absolutely nothing for the constituents that voted him into office, and then runs for office again and loses the election, there is no reasonable expectation that voters would vote for him again.

You do a rotten job for the people that hired you, you get fired. It's your fault that you got fired because your performance was not acceptable. If you had gotten the job done, you'd still be employed. It's that simple.

If Obama does not get re-elected, it will be totally his own fault. He didn't get the job done for me, a lifetime Yellowdog Democrat, in any acceptable way whatsoever.

I've never before even remotely considered not voting for an incumbent Democrat, or any other Democrat that I had the opportunity to vote for. I begged and pleaded with people not to vote for Nader.

And now here I am, wondering if I can vote for Obama in good conscience, because he seems to favor republicans and republican policy so much more than progressive Democrats and Democratic policies.

[dionysus]

88. and the obstructionist GOP gets a free pass, as always. funny that.

[BzaDem]

124. Whatever you think the "reasonable expectations" are, the voters are 100% accountable for their

choice.

If the President takes too much vacation, then maybe he is guilty of... taking too much vacation. But he is not responsible for a choice that the voters (not him) make. If the voters decide to elect Perry over Obama (and decide that ensuring all entitlement programs are ruled unconstitutional for a generation is more important than vacation time), then they are 100% responsible for that choice. Obama is only responsible for that choice if he himself votes for Perry over Obama. This is so obvious that it should really go without saying. In a democracy, the people are sovereign, the people choose, and that BY DEFINITION means that the people are 100% accountable for that choice.

[treestar]

99. No it would be because of Republicans getting more votes than

Democrats.

This is illogical as all get out. Right wingers will do the same - McPain lost because he was not batshit insane enough.

Voters are dumb but not so illogical as to vote for a right winger because a left winger was not enough to the left. And vice versa.

[Odin2005]

38. Your trollish thread-grenades are pathetic.

[Rex]

56. I guess his one hit wonders keep people coming back or

something. They never have anything positive to add, but that really never was the criteria for this site imo.

[southernyankeebelle]

43. I have come to the conclusion we are screwed either way. Am so tired.

[stklurker]

44. viewed

I think 100% will be sorry if we dont start focusing on Congress so some decent bills can come forward. Otherwise it wont matter who the hell is president.

[TheKentuckian]

46. Same as always with fresh piss and vinegar.

Why would anyone care or expect anyone to care?

I guess the pony shipment would be short.

[tkmorris]

47. Did you care what the 89% thought on 09/12/2001 ?

[LoZoccolo]

49. I didn't really need their cooperation to accomplish anything.

[kentuck]

51. Did you know..?

That in 2001, there were more moderate and conservative Democrats that voted for Bush than there were liberals that voted for Nader? What would you say to those folks?

[LoZoccolo]

52. I would say that they should have voted for Gore.

[KoKo]

53. lol's.....of course you would. n/t

[BzaDem]

50. Most of them will vote for Obama, and most of the remaining that don't are Republicans anyway.

Sure, they claim to be more progressive than thou, and are only voting for Perry (or enabling him) because they want destruction to happen sooner rather than later (so we can "rebuild"). They'll claim they are just playing the 11-dimensional chess (that they visciously attack Obama for). But in reality, most of them favor Republican policy (despite ritual chants of "I have been a loyal democrat for 500 years blah blah blah"). Right wingers and their enablers need to be electorally defeated -- not coddled.

[moksha]

54. As right all along?

[BzaDem]

58. ROFL

:rofl:

[joshcryer]

69. I don't recall Nader being seen as "right."

[Rex]

55. He won't, but thanks for having confidence in your party. COUGH.

Got a little tickle...

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RetroLounge]

60. Who gives a fuck?

:puke:

RL

[dionysus]

62. kind of the way serious music fans view Oasis.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SwampG8r]

77. OH MY GOD !!! a double snap

snapping on his snap !!i am truely in the company of giants
awesome!!and both have snaps at oasis so it is a trifecta snap
:applause:

[SwampG8r]

76. ouch!!

owie!! lol

[anAustralianobserver]

65. I think many such polls are rigged by the rigged RW media to marginalise and disillusion progress-

ives and anti-corruption activists.

Monopoly media polls are 'independent' of their host companies in the same way that the Fox News 'straight-news department' is independent of its overall agenda.

I'd be interested to know more about the questions asked, the context they were asked in, how well corroborated the results are etc.

Exasperatingly, even most politically informed people jump every time a monopoly media poll goes "Boo!"

[Blue_In_AK]

66. Your continued brow-beating is not making me

feel all warm and fuzzy towards the president. Just sayin'...

[Rex]

67. That is the goal.

[Blue_In_AK]

71. It's difficult to draw any other conclusion.

I think you're right.

[LoZoccolo]

79. Does this mean that you'll support President Obama to rebel against me?

[Blue_In_AK]

80. I'll make my decision when the time comes,

and won't give you a second thought.

[Rex]

108. Obama will win, despite all your efforts to stop people from supporting

him! :eyes:

[joshcryer]

74. Most of the respondants are ridiculing the President from a "left wing" POV.

If that is the goal then the "liberals" responding are doing quite a good job fulfilling the "goal."

I personally think it was just a derisive response to continual Obama bashing.

[Rex]

104. No, it is typical liberal bashing to get them to go further away from

the party, so they either won't vote or will vote Repuke. This guys does it all the time with his threads, this hatred for liberals has no boundaries.

[LoZoccolo]

128. Liberals are the biggest supporters of Obama.

[joshcryer]

132. Nonsense. "Liberals" do enough of that on their own, being naively critical of the President.

It is naive to think that a middle of the road candidate (who was championed by liberals) could've done squat during the 49 days he might've been able to.

[xocet]

68. Who cares what some undefined 85% think about an undefined 15%? n/t

[Adsos Letter]

70. "Blessent mon coeur d'une langueur monotone"

(répéter)

"Blessent mon coeur d'une langueur monotone"

"Je vais vous voir sur la plage"

(Fin de message)

[Blue_In_AK]

72. Good one!

I had to look it up. :)

[Adsos Letter]

73. I watched "The Longest Day" recently...

The second line is from "Saving Private Ryan." Seemed to fit here, strangely enough. :D

Hello Blue. How's things? :hi:

[Blue_In_AK]

81. Things are great.

Looking forward to our trip to CA next month to meet the new granddaughter. :) And you?

[Adsos Letter]

97. Not bad.

My wife is in San Diego for a week, visiting our daughters. I, on the other hand, am babysitting our 3 dogs, cat, and bird. Phone conversation this morning:

"I fed the dogs their breakfast, but they didn't want to eat it"
"What did you feed them?"
"Dog food..."
"Oh...well I usually fix them eggs for breakfast"

...good grief... :D

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

75. The usual way. As scapegoats for the candidate who failed to win enough voters.

[joshcryer]

78. Real question is how the 15%'ers would feel.

"Vindicated" as far as I can tell. Fortunately that is an unlikely scenario, so I'm not sweating it.

[pinboy3niner]

82. Real question is: Why are we wasting time on this crap? nt

[joshcryer]

83. True enough. All in good back and forth fun for me, mainly. :P

I can fling the rhetoric with the best of 'em! Being super defensive of Obama these days, probably get worse once I have nothing better to do.

[pinboy3niner]

91. Hey, man--you still have better things to do

Focus, Josh! Focus! :) :hug:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

86. You're right. No matter how it turns out.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams

[dionysus]

87. at first, they'd crow about taking down obama, until it quickly became obvious they fucked us all.

then they'd slink away faster than you could imagine.

the more stubborn ones would just point fingers and double down on the self righteousness.

[Trajan]

89. Happy to add an unrec

Didn't you used to be cool once ?

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AlmostUlyanov]

90. Nonsensical question

[indurancevile]

92. i don't care if obama loses. i care about the social safety net, the wars, education

& labor.

i am a democrat ONLY because i thought the party cared about those things too.

silly me, i didn't realize it was just a machine to suck up corporate dollars and what i am actually supposed to care about is michelle bachman eating a corndog.

[Marr]

93. I'm regularly assured that Obama enjoys overwhelming support from liberals, so...

if he loses next year, it will, apparently, be the fault of moderates. So to answer your question... I don't know. I suppose we'll have to marginalize the conservative Democrats. :/

[Vinca]

95. Obama's problem isn't the 15%. He won the last election by

attaining "rock star" status. People who weren't terribly interested in politics were drawn to him by that magical quality he exuded. Sadly, the magic is gone and I suspect those voters are, too. Most of the 15% will vote for him because they know the alternative is a nightmare scenario.

[blindpig]

96. Who cares? n/t

[treestar]

98. As not having helped

And deserving of every thing President Perry or whatever does.

[RetroLounge]

120. LOL

:rofl:

:puke:

:rofl:

:puke:

RL

[Union Scribe]

100. Why so worried?

All you boosters ever do is say DU isn't representative of the "real" world (apparently, none of us are people) and that only a "fringe" won't support Obama. If all that is true, why these constant pre-emptive blame/shame threads?

[LoZoccolo]

101. Because we'll have to hear them complain about being marginalized when they did it to themselves.

[Union Scribe]

102. Pre-emptive whining about something you're sure won't happen?

Either you're not as confident in Obama as you think, or you're just...what's that word...shit, I'm sure the internet has a word for what you're doing here. Rolling? Polling? It'll come to me after I post this, I'm sure.

[LoZoccolo]

103. It's happening now.

[Union Scribe]

105. Obama's lost 2012...now? Already?

Did you forget the subject of your thread? I can't blame you, it wasn't anything noteworthy.

Oh, maybe you meant that people are already blaming the 15(I think it's actually 19% now, btw) for everything that has or might happen? Because yeah, that's happening now. Again, did you forget your OP?

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

111. I am addressing people who won't support Obama.

[Rex]

113. That is not what your OP says.

Yeah sure ya are. :eyes:

[LoZoccolo]

117. Who are these people who approve of Obama, but won't support him?

[Union Scribe]

112. He does it well, and your question is a great one.

I can only guess the answer has a $ before it.

[Rex]

115. Someone had to say it.

Might as well be me.

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

110. No.

[Rex]

106. Your 'dividing up the party' posts are pathetic.

You have no shame. Why the mods let you post divisive crap is beyond me.

[LoZoccolo]

109. I wouldn't say that the 85% are the ones doing the dividing.

[Rex]

114. No just you here on DU.

Why do you want Obama to lose so bad? You really hate liberals that much?

[LoZoccolo]

118. If you want to have a serious discussion about my purpose, I leave it up to you.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

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[B Calm]

123. Time to face reality, we have the best government the rich can buy. It

doesn't matter which political party you voted for, they all end up republicans.

[KoKo]

125. Exactly !

Well Said!

[KoKo]

126. I have always assumed that LokoZocolo... is here for Entertainment Purposes...by favor of the GODS..

LOL's and Kudo's to LOCO for outstaying many of the Best of the DU Posters who now lie "under the Dasies" because they got the GUN TO THEIR HEAD...ala ...Watch or Read "The Godfather."

Power Be to You ...LOCO Zocollo....you have survived when so many have been killed in the battles and wars.

GIVE YOURSELF...a BADGE! What would you think the LOGO of that BADGE would read?

:shrug:

[Wait Wut]

127. I can't speak for the rest of the 85%...

...but, my opinion of the 15% won't change.

[TNLib]

I really don't care wat the 85% think I'm more concerned about the future of SS, medicare

declining wages, declining unions, labor rights, education, a fair tax policy, outsourcing of jobs.

[LoZoccolo]

131. Do you think that only 15% of liberal Democrats care about those things?

[TNLib]

129. I really don't care wat the 85% think I'm more concerned about the future of SS, medicare

declining wages, declining unions, labor rights, education, a fair tax policy, outsourcing of jobs.