If you want Obama to do liberal things, give him a Liberal congress to work with.

[Kurmudgeon]

I'm sure if I go out and look in the forum, there'll be those bashing Obama and threatening not to vote or to vote for the GOP guy.
The president, any president, does not work in a vacuum and is not a dictator.
No 2010 Neo-Con congress, no right wing bull shit problems.
2012 will decide the next course for the US, if you want Bush-Cheney 2 with the 3 Stooges House of Boehner-McConnell-Cantor and/or similar, just stay home or vote for them. It works out the same. And for those who live in areas where the 3 Stooges aren't your Representative, be sure to vote against the GOPer the same. I'll go all I can to vote out Buffalo Creek Arch Moore's daughter, Shelly Moore Capito that I can.
If the future of this country means anything to you at all, be sure NOT to vote ANYONE WITH AN R next to their name to Congress either, but be sure to GET OUT AND VOTE! It's THAT IMPORTANT!
Or you can do the work of the right wing for them, I'm sure they'll appreciate it as they call you names, raid the treasury and throw rights into the shredder.

[Enrique]

1. he campaigned for Blanche freaking Lincoln n/t

[Erose999]

26. Yes he did!

[gateley]

29. Politics. I think you pretty much have to support the incumbent.

Just part of the game.

[bvar22]

60. But I thought he was going to be the "CHANGE" President.

He didn't have to actively campaign for the woman who crowed about derailing the Public Option,
and he certainly didn't have to send the Old Dog back down to Arkansas to rescue her failing campaign.

How much help did the White House give to the incumbents Grayson or Feingold?


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone

photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed


"By their WORKS you will know them."



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[gateley]

61. I think her seat was in jeopardy and he did what he did to keep

it in the D column, regardless of how nominal that D was. She had a strong number of supporters, and campaigning for a primary opponent would have split that vote.

It's pragmatism. You look at potential outcomes and align with the route that will be the most beneficial, even though it may not be perfect. Why is that so hard to understand?

And as for him being the change President, that's not what we were discussing. On that topic, you and I would be in much closer agreement, believe me.

[bvar22]

63. Her primary opponent

was Pro-LABOR Democratic Lt Governor Bill Halter who was polling as good, or better, against the Republican in The General.

You really believe it is "pragmatic" to HELP those who work HARD to de-rail a Democratic Agenda, like the Public Option?
REALLY?

I have no use for THAT kind of "Pragmatism",
helping those who are working to obstruct you.

[gateley]

64. Thank you for your judgment. nt

[bvar22]

74. I am still furious at what the White House did in Arkansas in 2010.

I live in Arkansas, and consider Organized LABOR to be a corner stone of the Democratic Party.
"Anti-Union" and "Democratic" do not belong in the same sentence as far as I am concerned,
and Blanche Lincoln WAS virulently Anti-UNION.

One of the outcomes of the White House's choice in campaigning FOR Lincoln in the Democratic Primary was the alienation of Pro-LABOR forces, not just in Arkansas, but across the nation.
LABOR had designated the Arkansas Democratic Primary a place to make some gains in 2010,
and turned out to fight the Anti-Working Class Conservatives dominating our Government.

Losing to Lincoln after the White House jumped in and rescued her faltering campaign HURT,
but a White House "spokesperson" just had to add insult to injury by ridiculing LABOR for "wasting $10 Million Dollars" in the Primary (by supporting a Pro-LABOR candidate!!!!).
That pushed a lot of good Democrats over the edge,
and they ain't coming back.

The real Kick-in-the-Guts is that HAD the White House stepped in and supported the Grass Roots Pro-LABOR/Pro-Healthcare"Democrat" against the entrenched Corporate Backed Lincoln, it would have energized the campaign, WON high-pressure support from LABOR across the country, and guaranteed a huge army of dedicated Workers/Supporters for 2012.
It would have DEMONSTRATED that Obama was really about "CHANGE",
and that his words during the campaign actually meant something.



Support for LABOR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMNVIQqatyU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA9KC8SMu3o

The White House gained NOTHING by trying to save Blanche Lincoln.

[gateley]

87. Understood - and I agree they gained nothing (especially from

progressives) but I'm just saying that's how the political game goes, you know that.

It sucks, but currently that's the reality we have. Ideally, we can work to move the party back to where it should be.

And sincerely, I'm in agreement with most of what you say.

[theophilus]

73. I supported Halter. There were vote shenanigans. I believe he could have

beaten Boozman. Lincoln is DINO and should have never gotten a nod from Mr. Obama. All of these little "clues" add up to show Mr. Obama is not a Liberal/Progressive.

[theophilus]

72. If Mr. Obama is just another politician then,imo, he is just about worthless.

[PVnRT]

2. Yawn

Funny, I thought Obama had super-high approval numbers from liberal Democrats. That's what I keep seeing around here, anyway. Not to mention that those farthest from the middle of the spectrum tend to vote more reliably, and it's those in the middle (and in certain demographic groups) that tend to stay home more. Shouldn't you be telling all the apathetics and moderates this, rather than yelling at a very small, generally disregarded segment of the voting base?

[Kurmudgeon]

9. Should I tell you anything? You sound asleep.

Yeah, he had high approval numbers until the 2010 election and all the crap started. I guess you slept through Medicare reform too, didn't you?
Sorry, I woke you up with the part that needed to be emphasized.
If it's not important enough for you to wake up, stay home. Then bitch later, just like now.

[PVnRT]

20. Yes, you go on yelling at those evil lib-ruls you appear to hate so much

You brave keyboard warrior, you.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kurmudgeon]

81. I'll say again, I don't hate liberals.

[DevonRex]

DU doesn't believe Congress exists. Nt

[EFerrari]

12. DU has seen what Obama does with a liberal congress. n/t

[adhd_what_huh]

18. No it has not...

[uppityperson]

19. When did Obama have a liberal congress? Not in my lifetime.

[trueblue2007]

36. it was NOT a liberal congess. THERE WERE THOSE STUPID BLUE DOG DEMS

AND THEY ARGUED AND BICKERED AGAINST EVERYTHING HE TRIED TO DO

those DAM blue dogs. they messed us over at every action

[uppityperson]

52. seriously. Pres Obama has never had a liberal congress. Maybe a few liberals IN congress, but the wh

whole thing? Never.

[bvar22]

75. Then you admit that The Problem...

..is inside The Democratic Party.
Good.
Identifying The Problem is the First Step toward Fixing the Problem.

I agree,
and until we can FIX the Democratic Party,
we are destined to repeat the failures.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone

photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed


"By their WORKS you will know them."



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[BzaDem]

76. Maybe the problem is that the public won't vote for the candidates you would prefer. What a concept.

Of coure you will now proceed to posting polls that show that X percent of people agree with Y liberal issue position. Newsflash: it doesn't MATTER how many people want higher taxes on the rich, if half of them vote Republican. Issue positions are MEANINGLESS if half of the people that take those positions will always and forever vote for a party that takes the opposite of those positions. Voting behavior is extremely correlated with self identified ideology. Until there stop being more than TWICE as many conservatives as liberals in this country, we are not going to get a liberal Congress.

Until those who think the Democrats are the problem stop misidentifying the problem over and over and over again, they will continue to cause outcomes like 2000 that push our country permanently to the right.

[bvar22]

96. A Populist Democrat...

...who Looks Good on TV and has a Charismatic nature,
who can ride a horse and shoot a gun,
who avoids the Wedge Issues,
who speaks in short, easy to understand sentences,
and concentrates on a Huey Long platform of Economic Justice for Working Americans,
who has SUPPORT from the Democratic Party leadership,
can WIN anywhere.

The BIGGEST problem is keeping the Corporate Interests currently running the Democratic Party
from torpedoing his/her campaign in the Primaries.

See: White House support for Blanche Lincoln, Arkansas Democratic Primary, 2010




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[BzaDem]

99. It is quite ironic that the hero you pick is someone who couldn't stand FDR once he came to power.

As I have repeatedly said, there will always be some people in both parties that are satisfied none of the time. This has always been the case, and will always be the case.

[defendandprotect]

92. K&R for your post -- and ...

:applause:

[gateley]

33. I don't think that Congress could be considered Liberal, sadly

(and obviously!:7). Therein lies our challenge.

[DevonRex]

42. Two names for you: Reid and Baucus. That's all anybody needs to know. Nt

[defendandprotect]

91. True -- what we need is for Dems to only control HOUSE, they we can run everything -- !!!

Can't wait -- !!!


:evilgrin:

[lumpy]

37. LOL perhaps

v

[Horse with no Name]

3. The momentum was there

and Obama blew his wad on his non-bipartisan bipartisanship.

We gave him a golden moment in history...and he could have walked away the best President we ever had, but instead, will be in a tie with Hoover for one of the worst.

[Bluenorthwest]

4. I challenge you to show even one DUer who says they will vote

for the Republican. I have never seen such a thing, and I do not believe you have either. But then, you do not really say you do. You are just 'sure if you go and look'. I say that is vile crapola you are pushing.

[Bluerthanblue]

10. it's been said- whether you believe it or not.

the posts get deleted.

There is a LOT of 'vile crapola' being pushed on DU. The OP isn't spreading any.

:thumbsdown:

[Bluenorthwest]

21. Oh. So you answer for it, and it has no proof of this.

It is malicious and vicious crap. It is characterization of good citizens critical of policy as GOP voters. Any poster who said they were voting for the GOP would be Tombstoned. That is rule one here. So what I believe is what I see here daily, not the musings of some stranger with a cross and some gossip.
You are claiming that the admins allow open Republican supporters to continue posting, with only the deletion of that post? I do not believe that either? They claim otherwise.

[Kurmudgeon]

31. I see the president under constant attack and belittling, and I'm the one that's "malicious:"

I made no claims against the modmins, that your surmise.
Each poster is responsible for their own writings.
We're all strangers here into you get to know one another.
I'm not sure why my cross offends you, this wasn't a religious discussion.
A prejudice of your own, perhaps?

[Rex]

67. You see what you want to be true, sorry if it is not true.

You cannot find ONE example = fail. Just facepalm yourself now and save us the effort. Thanks.

[Kurmudgeon]

82. Go ahead, declare victory for yourself, that's what you really wanted.

[Bluerthanblue]

97. ask the administrators if you don't believe the OP- it is true.

the fact that there isn't a thread which can be pointed to as proof, or an example, is because they are DELETED!

There was a thread on the same page when the OP was made entitled something like 'throw a wrench in the process' which was encouraging people to vote republican so that the whole country would fail for a few years :crazy: while a 'better progressive candidate' could be found. I would have pm'd and pointed it out to the questioner, but it was deleted.

ASK the mods- they are the ones who can say for sure what about posts that have gotten deleted, they do a damn good job imo.

[Bluerthanblue]

40. ask the administrators if you want proof. It's against the rules

to call out individuals.

If you don't think that the statement has been made on here on more than one occasion, you are wrong.

If you want proof, ask those who have it. Your denial is not proof of anything, and your vitriol doesn't do anything except alienate us further.

peace.

[Kurmudgeon]

49. Ok, you win, Everyone here loves Obama and is loyal to him. EVERYONE. n/t

[Bluerthanblue]

51. ummmm...

:shrug:

I don't understand. Were you addressing me?

Because I can't agree with what you just said.

Wish it were true, but not in my experience here.

[Rex]

68. LAWL!

Funny, the ragers don't even pay attention anymore...just attack attack attack! Sad, pathetic and wrong.

[Kurmudgeon]

83. Be sure to let me know when I'm raging or attacking. I thought we were having a discussion.

[MrDiaz]

38. I'm on DU

everyday, and I personally have never seen any comments regarding voting for a repuke, i have seen some that want to throw their support towards another democratic candidate.

[Bluerthanblue]

43. I alert on them when I see them. I also alert on

posts that advocate not voting, and voting for someone other than the Democratic candidate.

I've seen them- believe it or not. The fact that they don't remain to be cited is due to the moderators who do an excellent job, under some pretty intense and ugly situations at times.

I have great respect for them.

:hi:

[Le Taz Hot]

94. Funny, I've actually been on here longer than you have

and you claim to "alert on them when I see them" and, yet, I've never ever seen even ONE person claim they are voting Republican. In the 10 years I've been here. Odd, isn't it? You know the one thing I absolutely do believe in your statement? That you "alert." I'm guessing a lot.

[Le Taz Hot]

95. Self-delete.

The Duplicate pixies strike again!

[Rex]

69. No no no, you are off script - everyone hates Obama cuz

the OP desperately needs it to validate this stupid OP.

[Bluerthanblue]

98. not everyone hates Pres. Obama- and the OP didn't say

that.

Why exaggerate? What the OP said can be discussed without being dishonest.

With a progressive congress, there would be a much stronger opportunity to set this country back on a positive track. That was the OP's point imo.

But that requires more than just moaning about how bad Pres. Obama's doing- or how hopless everything is.

:shrug:

[Kurmudgeon]

15. I figure the constant bashing does that for them.

The constant carping at the president on this forum as well as the continual bashing from the media serves GOP purpose well.
So you are saying there are no posts against the president here? Imagine that....

[Bluenorthwest]

28. Do not put words into my mouth. I said no such thing, my post is

there to read. I said that DUers do not say they are voting Republican. That is what you claimed. You still have not proven that they do.
You seem to be saying that the mods and admins do not enforce the rules. Promoting a Republican gets a poster banned. Which is why you do not see it out of DUers as you are claiming.
My Rep is DeFazio, my Senators Merkely and Wyden. Like myself, they are all critical of policy when it is called for.

[Occulus]

86. Question for you.

How do you personally define the phrase "hold my feet to the fire"?

[defendandprotect]

90. They FEAR that's what will happen -- so they post it -- then they believe it -- !!!

:evilgrin:

No Democrat is going to vote for a Republican --

We need to end this fear-based thinking and have the courage to stand up and

stop voting for the "lesser evil" which only moves the party and Congress

further to the right!!

[LaurenG]

5. Why? Why would that matter he's not supporting the dems in congress

now. I'm still mad at him.

[Bonhomme Richard]

6. If I don't want to rely on Obama to do liberal things, give him a Liberal congress.

He will get my vote because there isn't a gene in my body that would allow me to pull a republican lever but I don't have to like it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Liberals and the Left tend to vote for Liberal and Leftist candidates.

So, if Obama and the centrists want liberal/left votes they'd be well served to move left and earn their votes rather than take them for granted.

[no_hypocrisy]

8. A majority in the House and 60 in the Senate and we have a better chance of "change".

We've learned that a minority within a majority can set policy. Get enough dems where it counts and the progressive agenda could be back on the table again.

[Better Believe It]

23. What if 20 of the 60 Democrats in the Senate are "centrists" or "moderates"?

Well, that means we need to elect 80 Democrats to the Senate .... or perhaps 100 to get anything accomplished.

Would 100 Democrat Senators and 435 Democratic House members be enough?

What if many of them are so-called "blue dogs"?

[Lucky 13]

11. What do you call that super majority he was gifted with his first two years.

Squandered.

But you are right. Congressional and Senatorial races are important. I am going to take the time I spent campaigning for Obama in 2008 and in 2012 use it for important congressional and senate campaigns instead.

Sadly, it seems that needs to happen to keep him honest and behaving more like a democrat instead of the mushy, oozing, ever creeping rightward "center"

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Poll_Blind]

14. So he can go right behind their backs and cut deals with the Repukes just like Dec 2010 and now?

Reid: 'I'm the Senate majority leader. Why don't I know about this deal?' Among other things.

I'm all for a liberal congress. Like my liberal congressman, Peter DeFazio. Who has been on Obama's shit list since the very beginning. Because he is a liberal and because he stands up for what he believes in.

My senator (Ron Wyden) and congressman (Peter DeFazio) have more Liberal in their fucking toenail clippings than Obama ever will in his whole body. Not by birth or by accident but by choice. President Obama's choice.

PB

[hifiguy]

16. We did give him strong majorities in 2008

and got billy-old-squat for our efforts, only capitulation to big money/insurance/pharma.

[Cool Logic]

17. He had super-majorities during his first two years...

Regretablly, his focus was mis-aligned.

[Erose999]

24. He HAD a liberal congress. Both houses. He pissed that opportunity away faster than Bohner could

piss away a 6 pack of wine coolers.

[tblue]

34. Right after the inauguration, when his political capital was sky high

we had the chance to do truly great things. I hear he's gonna announce a jobs proposal in September. Take your time, sir. No hurry. What could possibly go wrong?

[SaveAmerica]

44. How many times did we witness Pelosi trying to bring Obama's campaign promises to life for us?

She swam upstream the entire time.

[tblue]

25. You don't have to be a dictator to be a great leader.

He is neither. And quit blaming voters and those who volunteered for him for his failures. (Don't get me started listing them. Believe me, you don't want it.) And quit telling them not to speak truth to power. We are the ones trying to make things better and not content with a miserable and worsening status quo.

[INdemo]

27. he had a majority to work with and he still allowed Republicans to

control Congress....Remember...We got a healthcare bill form a Democratic majority that was drafted by lobbyists and Insurance companies ...

[flamingdem]

30. REC nt

[gateley]

32. Hell, I'd vote for Blanche fucking Lincoln before I voted for a Republican or

sat out the vote (which in my mind IS voting for the Republican -- THEY don't sit home to "make a statement"). :patriot:

[tblue]

39. Point is: He backed Blanche Blue Dog over the more progressive Democrat.

Between two Dems he chose the more conservative. He made that choice so why does anyone think Obama more progressive than B. Lincoln? Or does that even matter anymore?

[gateley]

46. I posted upthread that I think the POTUS pretty much has to

support the incumbent. A benefit WOULD have been if she'd changed her ways somewhat out of appreciation, but...

I think the backing was more political than heartfelt. Just my opinion, natch.

[woo me with science]

35. You can put a fish in a room and surround it with cat toys,

but it still won't act like a cat.

He is not a liberal. He is a Third Way Democrat, with economic policy goals very similar to those of the Republicans.

[SaveAmerica]

41. I give you Exhibit A: Congressman Larry Kissell, I vol'd on his campaign, he walked the Progressive

Walk then forgot we existed when he got in. That plan doesn't always work.

[vi5]

45. Tell him to stop supporting and enabling conservadems..

It's a bit disingenuous to tell us to "give him a progressive" congress when he supports and campaigns for people like Blanche Lincoln and Joe Leiberman, and god knows who else.

And also the whole "He really WANTS a progressive congress!!" is bullshit. He could have had a highly progressive cabinet and stock of advisers. So who did HE pick? Larry Summers? Tim Geihtner? Arne Duncan? Hell, even Hillary is hardly a raging progressive in the area she was put in charge of.

So really. When he himself shows that he would prefer to work with Progressives rather than conservative democrats, then I'll buy that it's everyone elses fault for not giving him.....what's the threshold now? Is it 80 progressive senate seats that he needs to do anything? or is that just the goalpost today?

[DeSwiss]

47. The system we have is totally corrupted.

Nobody, no Congress can save us when "the rich" own and control everything.

- People need to WAKE UP......

[woo me with science]

58. +1

[provis99]

48. Obama is not a liberal.

If he had a liberal congress, he would be vetoing their bills left and right to protect his corporate and Blue Dog buddies.

[Quantess]

50. True.

Hard to deny that.

[Initech]

53. We had a liberal house and senate but the stupid GOP wouldn't shut the fuck up.

[BlueDemKev]

56. Yep.

And the American people, with their infinite maturity, swallowed all the right-wing dirt hook, line, and sinker.

[defendandprotect]

89. It's called a "silent filibuster" which is simply a "get out of jail card" ... !!

[dtexdem]

54. If we want a liberal congress, it would help if Obama did liberal things.

But the House is critical in 2012. Without winning it back, we are sunk.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

55. If only Obama was a liberal leader (Like LBJ) it would work.

But right now Obama tilts way too far to the right.

[meow mix]

57. lol right... all that will happen then is we'll see his real "fighting" prowess

as he struggles against the left, which he hates.

good fucking luck with that plan. ROFL.. some people never learn a lesson i guess.

[mmonk]

59. How about the right thing. Why don't the Democrats fight for the right thing?

Why didn't they fight tooth and nail when we had every branch? Why are they completely controlled and roll when Republicans have only 1 branch? Answer that and I'll consider your statement.

[BzaDem]

77. Maybe because the median in both houses has a different conception of what the "right thing" is than

you?

Progressives could have 49% of the House, and 59% of the Senate, and it still wouldn't matter. What matters is the median vote in both houses, and that has never been liberal.

[TheKentuckian]

62. You mean elect a liberal Congress and see if they can force him left?

Kind of like when a TeaPubliKlan is in the White House.

Obama's proposals, appeaser/bipartisan rhetoric, and corporate conservative appointments tell us all we need to know and a while a decent Congress helps, the President is part of the problem and works against solutions.

I'm all for a liberal Congress but like times past, it will be to keep him in check and reduce the number of fuckwits he can be "bipartisan" with.

[BzaDem]

78. That's funny. I remember him passing his agenda without a single Republican vote in the House, and

with the bare minimum necessary in the Senate.

Every big piece of legislation got the bare minimum number of votes, and the bare minimum of bipartisanship. HCR was passed without a single Republican vote in either House. Now, you may not like his legislation, since after all, Obama signed it into law (which makes it ipso facto bad for some, despite near unanimous public support for such legislation among Democrats), but you can't logically say he wasn't partisan (in a good way) when he had the votes to be so.

[warrior1]

65. kr

but you'll never see it because of all of the Obama haters on this forum.

[JoseGaspar]

66. If we want Bachman to do liberal things, do we give her a liberal congress?

"Ah", but the OP might say, "it doesn't matter what kind of Congress you give Bachman. Bachman is not Liberal and will never do Liberal things..."

And, there's the answer.

[theophilus]

70. He hasn't done "liberal" things in any sphere. He didn't apoint any

liberal advisors, etc. This has nothing to do with congress. He's just not a liberal. Having a liberal congress might push him but maybe not. False assumption.

[TransitJohn]

71. LOL! That's how he started!

:rofl:

[Raine]

79. He was given one in 2008

for all the good that did. x(

[JackDragna]

80. If he's this great liberal guy..

..why did he immediately put Wall Street and big money execs into his government? Why did he allow Howard Dean to be jettisoned from the party, a man whose strategy was instrumental in a Democratic win? Why has he adopted the language and rhetoric of the right when he talks about issues? Liberal congress, my ass.

[TheKentuckian]

85. He is liberal in the same ways and in similar measure to Poppy Bush and Bob Dole

You hear about the backroom deals and it seems like. In some ways he was being pushed by Congress already and may still be.

[KG]

84. y'all keep pretending he's a liberal. see how that works for ya...

[defendandprotect]

88. Obama had a mandate he threw away to resurrect GOP from the ashes!!

Obama had a liberal Congress and he did nothing with it --

Rather he engaged in back room deals with Big Pharma and Private H/C industry

in betrayal of the American public's call for a universal health care system --

and then Koch Bros. DLC Rahm "crowed" about what Obama had done and how "grateful"

business should be to him --


Pitiful stimulus which Obama further gimmciked by giving billions of it away to

business in lucrative new contracts!


Obama/Duncan attacks on public education -- teachers, unions --



:puke:

[AverageJoe90]

93. Agreed. And recced. =)