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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:37 AM
Original message
Obama to supporters: Don't get 'bogged down' (on details of) war, taxes
Obama to supporters: Don't get 'bogged down' on war, taxes



By Michael O'Brien - 08/04/11 09:38 AM ET
The Hill


.....

The president, in a video conference with supporters Wednesday night from Chicago, encouraged his backers to focus on broad themes when it comes to his policies on taxes and war, instead of the specifics of individual policies.

"I think the key is not to get too bogged down in detail," the president said last night.
"If somebody asks about taxes, nobody is really interested in hearing what precise marginal tax rate change would you like to see in the tax code," Obama said.

.....

On Afghanistan and Iraq, Obama said: "If somebody asks about the war, whether it’s Iraq or Afghanistan — if it’s Iraq, you have a pretty simple answer, which is all our folks are going to be out of there by the end of the year. If it’s Afghanistan, you can talk about, look, we think it’s time for us to transition to Afghan lead and rebuild here at home. So, again, it’s a values issue: Where are we prioritizing our resources?"

.....

Obama said his campaign, led by Jeremy Bird, his national field director, would take the lead in ensuring that volunteers have good talking points to take out on the campaign trail. The president said his administration would also lay out new initiatives that would help his grassroots volunteers sell his record.

.....




He doesn't think we are interested in details. So we shouldn't worry our little heads about it when his grassroots volunteers come calling to get him reelected.



Let's not look at details like the push for another corporate tax holiday, which is getting no attention anywhere. Hey, it's even getting more and more bipartisan support.


On the corporate tax holiday:

Matt Taibbi:

.....

Here’s how it works: the tax laws say that companies can avoid paying taxes as long as they keep their profits overseas. Whenever that money comes back to the U.S., the companies have to pay taxes on it.

.....

Only there’s a catch. In 2004, the corporate lobby got together and major employers like Cisco and Apple and GE begged congress to give them a “one-time” tax holiday, arguing that they would use the savings to create jobs. Congress, shamefully, relented, and a tax holiday was declared. Now companies paid about 5 percent in taxes, instead of 35-40 percent.

Money streamed back into America. But the companies did not use the savings to create jobs. Instead, they mostly just turned it into executive bonuses and ate the extra cash. Some of those companies promising waves of new hires have already committed to massive layoffs..



Taibbi then says that after this tax holiday happened in 2004, these companies immediately and deliberately began offshoring their profits again, with the hope that in the future, they would get another tax "holiday", to bring their profits back here, yet again.


.....

According to Drucker, lobbyists met with President Obama last December to ask for another holiday.



Evil Corporate Tax Holiday Deal Still Alive, Taibbi, August 4, 2011




And let's not look at the details on Iraq:


US drags its feet in Iraq

By Karamatullah K Ghori
August 6, 2011


After days of wrangling, leaders of the main political parties of Iraq agreed on August 2 to hand a joint mandate to Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki to negotiate with the United States on whether some Americans troops will stay on in Iraq to "train" Iraqi forces beyond the end of this year.

United States forces, according to President Barack Obama's withdrawal plan, are scheduled to vacate Iraq by the end of year deadline. It's also an "open secret" however that the long-established American preference is not to leave Iraq entirely. Pentagon pundits in Washington, and some of their fellow-travelers in Iraq, have long been thinking aloud that some American troops ought to stay on beyond the deadline, if only to train the Iraqis in keeping peace and ensuring security once the Americans are gone.

.....





And let's not look at the details on Afghanistan:


Road building key tactic for U.S. in Afghanistan

August 4, 2011


(CBS News)

The war in Afghanistan isn't just being fought with guns and bombs. Shovels and backhoes are being used to transform a countryside that hasn't changed in centuries-- all in the name of security. CBS News correspondent Seth Doane traveled to Kandahar province where American soldiers are hard at work on a major project.

.....

The idea across the area is for the coalition to come in and control more roads and thoroughfares - building checkpoints - and get rid of the Taliban.

It took just a day to push to the river, plowing right through cropland and unearthing one of the ever-present conflicts that makes this war harder to win -- the tension between military and civilian goals: In this case the welfare of the civilian farmers who stood in the way.

Though they'll be compensated, winning the "hearts and minds" of these farmers will take much more than the trinkets that captivate the younger generation: toys and radios from the soldiers.
.....





'Let's not look at the details. People don't care about those. Let's look over there instead.'



We the people damn well are interested in the details, Mr President. And no amount of obfuscation will hide them.





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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. the REAL question is
how did he enjoy his cake?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
128. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #128
134. he must simplify- the left ignores 1000 coordinated think tank radio stations
the real question is when are progressives going to wake up and quit giving the RW talk radio ccarnival barkers a free speech free ride so that everything doesn't have to be reduced to one liners.
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #128
143. Oh. Brother.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. I guess the instructions to unrec unpleasant truths remain intact, as well
;-)
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UnrepentantLiberal Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
76. Don't need people messing around with his talking points.
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SugarShack Donating Member (979 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #76
142. Right, do not pay attention to the little cuts in soc sec or medicare!
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. As a lawyer and a scholar, Obama is fully aware that he speaks disingenuous clap-trap here.
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 11:42 AM by WinkyDink
Laws---whom they help, whom they hurt, to whom they are indifferent---ARE ABOUT NOTHING IF NOT DETAILS.

"That '3/5 of a person' detail? Not to worry! Look at the Big Picture! It's quite a document!"
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Larry Ogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
130. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Obama is treating the voters that voted for him as if their "all" clueless, Right Wing Authoritarians who believe everything their leader says without question.

How much more evidence is needed for people to realize that he's the President of the wrong party.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
4. Message from Elizabeth Warren:
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Message from Elizabeth Warren: 'I would have a job if not for President Obama'
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 12:36 PM by truebrit71
...really? You're going to use the Consumer Agency/Elizabeth Warren capitulation is a talking point?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. +1
It gets more bizarre and indefensible every day.
There is no bar set so low that....
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. "It gets more bizarre and indefensible every day."
Yeah, like agreeing with imaginary quotes!

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #34
168. Lol
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. You are speaking for the lady?
That's not what she said.

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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. Did I say that she did?
Not so much.

Tell me this though, the gutless and leaderless Consumer Agency that Capt Cut and Paste is touting as such a marvellous 'victory', do you agree with that assessment, or do you see it as I do as yet another in a long line of capitulations and cave-ins dressed up as 'victories'..??
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #23
131. How do your principles differ from the left? Or are you afraid to tell us? nm
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
33. Except
that quote is made up bullshit!

Also, Elizabeth Warren has a job!

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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Never said it was a quote, and she doesn't have the job she SHOULD have...
...but go ahead and keep polishing that turd if it makes you feel good...
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #33
127. Right! Never mind that forest, look at this little twig!
Never mind that blasted field, look at the one little green shoot! But wait - didn't the Prez say we were to ignore the details? But if we ignore the details we can't look at some insignificant item that can be spun as "better than" - but if we look at the big picture we see Oligarchy/Plutonomy/War/Ecocide ... I guess we shouldn't look at anything! Except that big D in the circle. That's the ticket!
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GOTV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
51. We apparently need an irony smiley for those that actually thought ...
... that was meant to be her quote.

Political cartoons must drive them insane.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. I am still shaking my head about that...
...completely irony deficient...
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daa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
37. We still don't or did the repugs OK it? Did they confirm and I missed it?
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
40. Wait, what?
Did you read a different OP than the rest of us? Elizabeth Warren?

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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
55. hey! looky over here! shiny object!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #55
101. Yup
"shiny object!"

...title: Obama to supporters: Don't get 'bogged down' on war, taxes

"I think the key is not to get too bogged down in detail," the president said last night.

"If somebody asks about taxes, nobody is really interested in hearing what precise marginal tax rate change would you like to see in the tax code," Obama said. "What they want to know is that our campaign stands for a fair, just approach to the tax code that says everybody has to chip in, and that it’s not right if a hedge fund manager is being taxed at a lower rate than his or her secretary."

On Afghanistan and Iraq, Obama said: "If somebody asks about the war, whether it’s Iraq or Afghanistan — if it’s Iraq, you have a pretty simple answer, which is all our folks are going to be out of there by the end of the year. If it’s Afghanistan, you can talk about, look, we think it’s time for us to transition to Afghan lead and rebuild here at home. So, again, it’s a values issue: Where are we prioritizing our resources?"


O.M.G.

What the hell is he thinking?

Look over there!

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Muskypundit Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #101
110. BAM. That part about Iraq is huge.
Because in the media its being reported as the iraqis are debating whether to allow us to stay longer, and that we would be open to stay longer if they wanted. That right there is a black and white from him, "ALL OUR FOLKS WILL BE OUT OF THERE END OF THE YEAR". I want to believe him because my unit deploys to Iraq in... November.
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scotdem Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #101
160. OBAMA
Hi i sorry just about this the news of the world is close its
time you in america to fight back i from scotland what I would
say is FOX NEWS RUNS THE REPUG PARTY its time for working
people to take a stand and tell the people FOX NEWS RUNS THE
REUGS 
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neoconn Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #55
104. No look over here....Dull object!!!
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
69. Do we have one?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
78. Procents, we couldn't make the stuff Obama says up.
This is just incredible. He has just given the GOP a huge campaign ad. Don't talk about the details. The one thing Obama has had going for him was his ability to speak. But this is just a huge blunder.

And he did it all by himself. Can't blame those of us who would prefer he step down.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. He's even starting to sound like Bush Jr. :
"if it’s Iraq, you have a pretty simple answer, which is all our folks are going to be out of there by the end of the year. If it’s Afghanistan, you can talk about, look, we think it’s time for us to transition to Afghan lead and rebuild here at home."

"Folks"? Is he gearing his speeches toward the uneducated Teabag brigade? It's just embarrassing.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #82
117. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #117
147. We don't use that word here
the word after f*ing

edit if you can
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pezDispenser Donating Member (443 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
119. When I read your post at first glance
I assumed it was a Warren quote. Sort of misleading
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
5. Oh, these details will be 'talked' about, starting on October 6, Freedom Plaza
or even perhaps earlier, if the details keep coming known to be worse and worse, as they do...

http://october2011.org/freedomplaza
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
83. Indeed. Let's get out there and make some noise! nt
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. Promises, promises
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Erose999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
7. Rec'd. Do not look at the details. Look instead at the scary boogeymen like Palin and Bachmann.

Scarry!

Boogeymen!
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
8. Details are for the Owner Class. Worker Class members would only get a headache.
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indurancevile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
80. I'm really awfully glad I'm a Beta, because I don't work so hard.
And then we are much better than the Gammas and Deltas. Gammas are stupid.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
9. Yeah, we shouldn't get bogged down in why we are in this shit.
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 11:48 AM by mmonk
Silly us.

Recommended.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
10. He must think...
...we're the Tea Party!
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AmericaIsGreat Donating Member (611 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
11. That's exactly the fucking problem
We haven't been looking at the details. Just talking about generalities. Yeah, 'we're transitioning' out of Afghanistan some time and, yeah, we'll do something about the tax code at some point.

Very disappointing commentary from Obama.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
12. Never mind the details = Let them eat cake
"The details" is why we put you in there in the first place...If you had taken care of "the details" you wouldn't need to come up with talking points for your "grassroots" volunteers to "sell your record" with....

"don't worry about the details"???? :eyes:
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. Not "let them eat cake",
but "Shut Up and Eat Your Austerity Peas."

Eat Your Peas
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
77. They go so well with a Satan sandwich
I used to just be disappointed with Obama. Now I outright loathe him.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
14. Wow. That's remarkably telling,
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 11:55 AM by woo me with science
and shameless.

The details do not support the attempted illusion; that's the problem right there.
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
103. Like the old SNL skit: Pepsi, pepsi-no coke! Lists, lists, no details!
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
15. That sounds too much like "Sell the brand, not the product!"
:(
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
44. +1000. nt
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begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
60. Or, "Sell the sizzle, not the steak!"
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
16. Wow. He seriously may as well have said...
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. +1
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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. +1
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
65. Self-deleted posted reply in wrong place. nt
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 07:26 PM by Raine
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. What condescending
BULLSHIT that is. :grr: I expected this sort of inane nonsense from the Chimp but not from Obama.

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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
21. Well I guess we know the "themes" that about 10 DUers here will be hammering nonstop
in the coming weeks.

Good grief.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
45. I cannot prove it...
but 3 of them appear to be one person.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #45
85. yes
i caught one answering a post in one name and then answering as the first poster under a second posters name
i alerted but these people seem to have some form of immunity
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #85
90. +1000
I've noticed that too. I've also noticed some posters seem to never sleep - they post 'round the clock.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #90
105. Come on, people. We're in a Depression. Cheerleading puts bread on the table.
:evilgrin:
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #85
111. I saw something similar...
but didn't piece it together quick enough to alert. I have brought up the sockpuppet thing a few times, but have no evidence other than gut feeling.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
22. I think this is the most bizarre thing I've ever seen him say.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
25. "Don't discuss the facts, because we can't win that way"
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 12:46 PM by FiveGoodMen
"(Oh, and pony up a billion dollars while you're at it)"
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
26. Here's one of those annoying little details he doesn't want to get "bogged down" in...
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
27. The "details" are so boring.
I'm so glad Obama is President,
and I don't have to worry my pretty little head about ALL these details.


Now where did I put those Austerity Peas my family is going to eat for Supper?




Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.


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99 Percent Sure Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
28. "Shaken, but not stirred."
President Obama is obviously shaken about the recession, yet not stirred about the effect it's having on the masses. As he said in his speech this morning, "The economy will get better..." However, the statement sounded strange and incomplete, perhaps because he left out "without my help."

Yes He Can--ignore us.

SMH.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
29. it's not just him they all do this crap
it's all about winning elections and not about making life better for the citizens.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
30. Details, details
The United Nations “documented 1,462 civilian deaths in the first six months of 2011, an increase of 15 per cent over the same period in 2010.”According to the world body, the deadliest year on record in the current Afghan conflict, which began when US-led troops in 2001 invaded to bring down the Taliban regime, was in 2010 with the deaths of 2,777 civilians.

In the first half of 2010, the United Nations reported 1,271 deaths.

http://www.dawn.com/2011/07/14/afghan-civilian-deaths-up-15-per-cent-in-first-half-of-2011-un.html
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
31. Please! Please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion!
Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who. We are here today to witness the
union of our president and the people of the United States in the joyful bond of a new beginning.
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kimsarah Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #31
118. A joyful bond
Of watching the bond rating descend toward junk bond status
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
32. President Obama. You are WRONG!! Open government is all about the details.
Without details we can't determine the path to our goal.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #32
121. Not to worry.
Obama's goal and our goal ain't the same.
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dtexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
35. Yes, avoid the swamp of reality.
Recession/redepression, joblessness, cuts in services, threats to entitlements, ignoring war crimes, perpetrating war crimes, robbing the poor to further enrich the rich, betrayal of strongest supporters, all of those things -- they're just so depressing. And they might not make people want to vote for one.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
36. In all fairness, that attitude is what got him elected.
All the glittering generalities and pretty speeches and charm unburdened with anything so prosaic as specifics.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. true, but that was then...
the old "fool me once' phenomenon. Tomorrow, as in 2012, is a different day. Obama has shown his ture loyalties and his pretty speeches no longer fool anyone but the most daft.
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #41
137. He still has
extremely high support among African-Americans (do you think they're all daft??) and good support among liberals. The polls don't back up your assertions that he will have a hard time in 2012, especially considering the Republican "competition". And a primary challenger wouldn't even come within 30 percentage points of him. I'd be willing to bet money on that
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. Yes, but this time we know better
and he's telling us to forget what we know and fall for the whole thing again.

Fool me once ...
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. good point. nt
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #36
79. Many of us did ask for specifics, but all we were given were little blue links
to more speeches filled with broader generalities and feel good patriotic claptrap.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #79
96. Take heart--no matter how bad things get,
there will always be an abundant supply of little blue links!
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durablend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. And TEH LIST
Don't forget TEH LIST! Because goshdarnit even if everyones job goes into the crapper, Obama still accomplished SOMETHING (and that's what matters, isn't it?)
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #36
113. That's what struck me...
It's as if he's telling us to go back to the good ol' days--where he could give a soaring speech while
standing in front of big columns, and speak to us in poetic and grandiose terms.

"Come on guys! Let's go back to the days where I said some pretty stuff and you all believed it! I'm
tired of you people getting hung up on facts and reality!"

Seriously. Where does he go? He has absolutely no credibility after what he's done to this country. I would
laugh if he even tried to give one of those "beautiful speeches" again.

I have absolutely no clue as to how he could run a serious campaign.

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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #113
146. I think his best hope for a successful campaign is the GOP nominating a nutcase,
which they could very easily do.

If they manage to put up someone even semi-plausible, though, I don't think things will end well for the president.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #146
156. Can Obama beat Rick Perry?
Because he will most likely be the Republican nominee.

I see Perry is holding a big prayer breakfast in a stadium. Lovely marketing, huh?

No doubt, he's playing to the fundie nutjobs in Iowa. I live in Iowa, and the Republican
caucus goers are a very radical breed.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #156
159. That's an interesting question. Perry is superficially appealing
and seems reasonable at first glance and all that, but he is underneath it all a genuine loon.

Do you think he can keep that under wraps until the election?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #159
163. As long as their puppets in The Media and Democratic Party ...
...keep focusing the spotlight on the Palin/Bachmann Clown Car,
Perry can fly under the radar while the Diversions suck up all the oxygen.
He will appear as a nice moderate compromise at the convention.
Sounds like a plan to me.

Remember, almost nobody knew who Bill Clinton was until the Democratic Convention.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #163
166. I think you nailed it...
...and that is perfect "Palin/Bachman Clown Car". OMG, that is
exactly what is happening and it looks like, as you said, that
Perry is allowing the radical fools like Bachman to just keep talking.

Seriously, allowing Bachman to soak up the limelight and to keep shooting
off her mouth, is like giving her enough rope with which to hang herself!

By the time Perry jumps in, Bachman will be seen as the nutjob loon that she is.

It will be interesting to see when Perry jumps in. He's not participating in the
Iowa straw poll. Maybe he will skip Iowa. I live in Iowa, and our Republican
caucus-goers voted for Huckabee last year and Pat Robertson in '88. Oy vey are
they a bunch of fundie wackos.

Campaigning in Iowa for the Republican primary means you have to try to out-crazy the
rest of the candidates. You can end up harming yourself--trying to bend so close to the fringe.

Maybe Perry will skip Iowa. I wouldn't doubt it if he selected Bachman as is running mate.
He could secure the nutjob teaparty faction of his party and the media would love it.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #36
132. Plus he was running against a couple of idiots. Our overlord master were careful
not to run a solid moderate Republican against him.
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #36
138. Dupe
Edited on Sat Aug-06-11 08:44 AM by Celeborn Skywalker
Delete please
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #36
139. Yes
Edited on Sat Aug-06-11 08:43 AM by Celeborn Skywalker
but what other choice did we have? Edwards I thought, but then all those scandals turned up. And certainly not Clinton, who would've been doing the exact same things as Obama is doing now.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #139
145. You're right. And isn't it funny how we always end up with a choice
between two corporate functionaries?

It just keeps happening over and over. That's some kind of crazy coincidence!
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
43. what a mind numbingly stupid thing to say.
I can't believe I once bought the lie that this guy is intelligent.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
47. Yes, gloss over the facts mr. President
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
48. Hell of it is, if you don't get the details you buy a lie
Sickening.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. If that ain't telling right there!
Pretty sick.
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GOTV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
50. Don't look at the details .... Look at my dramatic new re-election poster!
I'm sure it will be very inspiring.
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tgal Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
52. Thanks for this info seafan
I am scared and angry all at once.

And I like reading your blue lines, great, real info.

Thanks again,
tgal
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
53. big k and r -- even staying out of the details, if he wants to talk about values, that's going to
be difficult too. how do you explain that the rich deserve more tax breaks while the rest of us are losing our homes, and all the value in our homes. what sort of value does that illustrate?
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libmom74 Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
54. 2012 Campaign slogan
OBAMA 2012 DON'T WORRY BE HAPPY! AUSTERITY PEAS FOR EVERYONE!

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Chisox08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #54
157. Austerity peas in every pot!
Edited on Sat Aug-06-11 11:00 AM by Chisox08
We no longer can afford the chicken unless you are a billionaire.
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disillusioned73 Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
56. I just can't take anymore disappointment...
seriously, WTF!?!?
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
57. What a dick. - K&R n/t
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raouldukelives Donating Member (945 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
59. "All our folks are going to be out of there by the end of the year"
This is great news! I had heard talk that we were still going to have a large presence in Iraq. Glad to know the rumor was unfounded and that all Americans are going to be headed home.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
61. Those "details" are eating our lunch, Mr. President. It's long past
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 04:41 PM by gkhouston
time to pay attention to them. People do care about them, very much indeed. The only ones who don't are sadly out of touch with reality.
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smiley_glad_hands Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
62. The President's quote is being taken out of context.
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 06:42 PM by smiley_glad_hands
He was speaking to campaign organizers and field ops folks who go out and talk to the general public......surely you folks complaining aren't recommending they talk about tax brackets in the get out the vote operation?

bamabash away.........

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katnapped Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. OHHHHHHHHHHHH I GET IT
It wasn't meant for the general public, just for the campaign organizers for them to sugarcoat and spread the bullshit.

I SEE NOW.
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smiley_glad_hands Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #66
73. Nice try. eom
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durablend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #73
88. Nice deflection! ROFL n/t
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 08:57 PM by durablend
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smiley_glad_hands Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #88
91.  Out of context unless you are one of his campaign organizers or field ops. eom
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #73
89. Pretty much a home run actually.
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smiley_glad_hands Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #89
92.  Out of context unless you are one of his campaign organizers or field ops. eom
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #92
102. No, not really
"I think the key is not to get too bogged down in detail," the president said last night.
"If somebody asks about taxes, nobody is really interested in hearing what precise marginal tax rate change would you like to see in the tax code," Obama said.


That's pretty damn specifically talking about people in our position- potential voters. And I'm terribly sorry, but Obama is dead wrong when he says that, in my case and many others'; I most definitely do want to know what exact rate is being discussed.

Jesus tapdancing Christ. To imagine that "nobody" wants to know what precise this-or-that rate we're being sold on is just fucking bonkers. Of course we want to know.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #102
151. +1000!
It's just trying to spin the truth.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #62
70. Campaign Marching Orders. We get that.
Out of context how?
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smiley_glad_hands Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. Out of context unless you are one of his campaign organizers or field ops. eom
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #74
98. The "context", as I see it, is "Keep 'em in the dark".
Although, I must say I'm VERY HAPPY with the information his campaign organizers and field ops will be disseminating vis-a-vis Iraq...

"...all our folks are going to be out of there by the end of the year."

That part is FUCKING AWESOME GOOD NEWS!
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #62
125. Catapulting the propaganda.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #62
133. When I have done campaign work --
Edited on Sat Aug-06-11 08:06 AM by Hell Hath No Fury
I have made it a point to personally know the details because I have found people ask for them. I can speak more effectively for a candidate if I can be as specific as possible, especially relating to the individual's life. And, let me tell you, there is nothing more embarrassing then being caught off guard by a potential voter's question that you do not have an answer for -- it makes you and the candidate you are representing look stupid..
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #62
155. tax brackets are not relevant to obama's gotv interests...
...but they are to everyone else's.

you mean to tell me you think voters are not interested in who is paying how much or what percentage in taxes...in these times?

you must be out of your mind.

obama doesn't want people to know about his support of tax breaks for the rich. he wants voters to think it's all those evil republicans.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
63. K&R
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
64. Reminds me of the primaries in '08.
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 07:01 PM by BlueIris
When we were asked to ignore little details like his overall lack of a plan, specific proposals to promote change or strategies to implement either. Ignoring those little details worked out great for the voters and the country, didn't they?
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #64
84. Exactly. His speeches were filled with platitudes and no substance. nt
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #84
95. Exactly
He used words and phrases designed to evoke an emotional response: hope, change, fired up, ready to go. What he didn't have was a cohesive, detailed plan of how to bring about change. I'm also inclined to think he didn't have a clue.
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katnapped Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
67. Don't worry your pretty little heads
Just CLAP LOUDER and OPEN YOUR WALLETS!
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
68.  because "details" just like "facts are stupid things" (as said by Raygun)
:sarcasm: JESUS H. CHRIST!!! :wtf:
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
71. Wow.....
.. the one thing Obama usually does well, TALK, is now even a lost art to him.

There's really nothing left.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. Yeah..really.....just wow.
unbelievable.

Didn't he mention transparency a few times?? Guess *details* are just too opaque to matter....
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
75. This is why I cannot campaign for Obama.
When you look at the details, his presidency has been a disaster. Obama has good reason to want his campaigners to avoid talking about the details on taxes and foreign policy (and a lot of other issues). The devils' are in the details, and Obama knows it.

Obama is not proud of what he has pretended to accomplish. At least he is right about that -- he should be ashamed of what has happened on his watch.

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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. I can't campaign of vote for him
four more years would be a nightmare of epic proportions. If there is no primary challenger, then I think the best we can hope for is overwhelming Dem majorities in both Houses.
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MattSh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #81
124. Yep...
Then there will be even more people to throw under the bus.

But in reality, even if 75% of the House and Senate have (D) after their names, both houses will still be republican controlled.
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kimsarah Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #75
120. The Republicans
ought to be pretty darn proud of and grateful for what the Big O has been able to "accomplish" for them.
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JJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
86. Now we know why he wouldn't release his
college grades.
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avgjo Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
87. A lawyer is telling us to ignore the fine print. nt
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #87
94. That's a great way of putting it.
Welcome to DU, avgjo.
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
93. He wants us to be sheeple
Don't question, don't look too closely, just obey. This is not only troubling, it's dangerous. What about the promised 'transparency in government'? Just a campaign slogan? We won't fall for the same lies again. This party and this country deserve better.
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Scottybeamer70 Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
99. Can't get much more arrogant than that!!
Wow............just wow!
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
100. The Devil's in the details Mr. President.
I see you are borrowing a page from Rove's playbook.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
106. What do I say if someone asks be about one of the wars other than Iraq or Afghanistan?
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 10:38 PM by dflprincess
I just want to be ready with a quick answer. :sarcasm:
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
107. Bkmrkd
:kick:
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OKDem08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
108. It's shocking to realize he was never
honorable in his intentions.
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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
109. Kind of like Dubya tellin us to go shopping. n/t
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webDude Donating Member (830 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
112. How about you just stop lying? That will go a long way. You have shown...
...your true intentions by your acts.
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bkkyosemite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
114. Mr. President ignore the details? We are
listening to every word you are saying every detail and more...even the the's the it's the is's the and's and the but's espeically the but's..........we are not going to ignore the details we are going to listen so intently that you can hear your aura shift color. It is time to do the will of the people like you promised during your campaign. I worked hard for you and I expect you to work hard for me. I pay your wage. Habeous Corpus....single payer.....tax the elite...no tax holiday for greedy corporations who stole our jobs..so on and so on.
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orbitalman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
115. Not looking at detail... is insane. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
116. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
122. let's just say it: HE IS CLUELESS
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #122
154. More like he wants US to be clueless. n/t
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
123. not the wisest thing he's ever said....
I understand his points, but his "bogged down" reeks of don't bother your pretty lil heads, now just get out there and get me donations. He's better than the GOP, but we deserve better from him, and we can only do so by protesting, and by giving him a huge Democratic majority, and who knows, that may very well happen next November, but I am sure there will be a few big rallies to attend!
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ThomThom Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
126. if we are going to be out of Iraq by the end of the year
we better start loading up
this is not something that can be done overnight
So what are the details? Who is moving out first? How many have left so far? What about the corporate troops, when do they leave? When will the savings begin?
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TeamsterDem Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
129. nobody is interested in the marginal rate? wtf?
I can think of only 2 groups which are slightly attuned to that number: those who must pay it and those who arrest group one for not doing so. But yeah, other than that no one cares.
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sandyj999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
135. Let's not get bogged down?
What the hell? Don't look and it will go away? And isn't that what caused this freakin' mess in the first place?
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Pharaoh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
136. he is going to the dark side
he has the ring of power

only frodo can save us now......
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
140. No, lets DONT get bogged down on thos BILLIONS, nah
Trillions being spent on wars for Billionaires.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
141. K&R.... from someone interested in the "details"
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RedCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
144. yeah. Just STFU and vote for him! Get used again!
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
148. The big picture also sucks
If we avoid the details, what we're left with also blows.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
149. Sorry Sir, I'm already bogged.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
150. Details are so 20th Century - n/t
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boxman15 Donating Member (389 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
152. I could be wrong, but I think the president was referring to how supporters can get others motivated
to vote. If you try to motivate them by going into the inner workings of the tax code, you'll bore them and they'll likely not understand. Most people aren't political junkies like us. I doubt he was saying "Quit trying to figure out what's going on! Go sit in the corner!" Campaign politics is all about taking incredibly complex issues (like the tax code or the wars) and making them easy to understand for the non-political junkies out there. That's what he's talking about. He isn't telling us to stop worrying about the details.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #152
164. He's telling his campaigners and organizers to give VAGUE answers to specific questions.
Does that not bother you?

You're right in a sense that not all people are "political junkies". How about treating EVERYONE like an adult though and give them information, then let THEM decide how to decode it? He isn't telling us to "stop worrying about the details", he's telling us WE DON'T NEED TO KNOW THE DETAILS. Fuck a buncha that.

I'm going to pin the first person who tells me I don't need specific information to the fucking wall in front of everyone watching and listening. I will ask for specifics until I'm asked not to ask any more questions.

Transparency my fucking ass.
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
153. This is a plague in America...
Don't worry about the details. People don't want to hear the truth, they can't handle the truth. They only want to hear what makes them feel good. I have to deal with this every day, as I do not live in the fantasy world where things are just fine, thanks, and prefer to know just how bad things really are.
Our president now does not want us to know the details, because they might actually be bad!
This gets me so sick, it's not funny.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
158. More details, Mr. President: 31 US special forces killed in Afghanistan crash, August 6. 2011
There are lots of families of these soldiers and the additional 7 Afghan soldiers who will be devastated by this.



06 Aug 2011 06:58

ALJAZEERA


A NATO helicopter has crashed in eastern Afghanistan during a battle with the Taliban, killing at least 31 US and seven Afghan soldiers, a statement from the Afghan president's office said.

The statement on Saturday said a troop-carrying Chinook helicopter had crashed in Syedabad in central Maidan Wardak province, west of capital Kabul, and identified the Americans as special forces troops.

.....

"They wanted to attack our muhahideen who were in a house, but our mujahideen resisted and destroyed a helicopter with a RPG (rocket-propelled grenade) rocket," Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said by telephone from an undisclosed location.

.....

"It is looking like it is going to be one of the single largest losses of life for coalition forces in Afghanistan in the last 10 years," said Bernard Smith, our correspondent in Kabul.





Obama to supporters: Don't get 'bogged down' (on details of) war, taxes, August 5, 2011



But, please tell us, Mr. President, why our troops are still in Afghanistan?




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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
161. August 6: NYT: US-Iraqi Raid Kills Civilians, Complicating Pullout Talks (What of these details?)
Edited on Sat Aug-06-11 03:41 PM by seafan
Iraqi Civilians Die in Raid, Complicating Pullout Talks

By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT
August 6, 2011


BAGHDAD — For the second time in a week, a joint Iraqi-American raid aiming at insurgents resulted in the killing of civilians.

.....

“This was an Iraqi-planned and -led counterterrorism operation,” Maj. Gen. Jeffrey Buchanan, an American military spokesman, said in a statement. “The operation was enabled by U.S. support that included helicopters. Also, there was a small number of U.S. advisers taking part in the operation, although it was predominantly Iraqi forces, and they were in charge of all activities on the ground.”

General Buchanan said that “because of the fighting that ensued” additional American forces responded. “They secured the area but were not engaged in the operation,” he said. But the statement did not say if the original forces on the ground fired their weapons.

.....

The operation, coming so soon after a botched raid on July 30, is sure to complicate politically fraught talks over whether American troops should remain in Iraq after the end of the year.
Amid pressure from American officials, who privately say some troops should remain, the Iraqi government announced on Wednesday that it would begin negotiations with the Americans about a continued troop presence.


.....






"If somebody asks about the war, whether it’s Iraq or Afghanistan — if it’s Iraq, you have a pretty simple answer, which is all our folks are going to be out of there by the end of the year. If it’s Afghanistan, you can talk about, look, we think it’s time for us to transition to Afghan lead and rebuild here at home. So, again, it’s a values issue: Where are we prioritizing our resources?" ----President Barack Obama, in a video conference to supporters last Wednesday night in Chicago





But, what about these details emerging today from Iraq, Mr. President? And these negotiations going on to stay in Iraq after the end of this year?



Are we supposed to look away from this, as the president encourages his supporters to focus on "broad themes" about Iraq, whenever their door-to-door efforts to re-elect him encounter questions from the voters? Will the voters accept the parroted premise that "all our folks are going to be out of there by the end of the year"?





This is utter prevarication, and actions unbecoming of the holder of the highest office in the land.


Ever growing numbers of us absolutely will not accept this.







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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #161
162. how many people dead?? god, i hate the NYT sometimes - and thank you, Seafan, as always!
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
165. The resident DLC shills have been given their talking points.
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emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
167. Hey, Obama! News flash: We want details & we want a
president who is a real Democrat, not some Republican lite--

Sorry, we can't hear you because you can't hear us!
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