No Legal Way to Fight a US Coup

[Demeter]

Even a cursory glance at the Constitution will reveal that there's no legal way to fight a coup. Whether it's the Military or the Oligarchy, there's no way to peacefully oust a conspiracy to take over the government that was designated as "By the People, of the People, for the People".

Several Founding Fathers made noises about the necessity of occasionally "watering the Tree of Liberty with the blood of patriots" during the formation of the nation, but individual treason is defined and dealt with legally in the Constitution, and conspiracy is not. The threat represented by the history of the ancient Roman Praetorian Guard was thought to be dealt with by virtue of forbidding standing armies.

Article 1, Section 8 broadly defines the powers of Congress:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Events have exceeded the Founders' vision. Yet the Constitution has not kept up with the progress of events in the nation or the world.

The Oligarchy has been able to grow by virtue of investing in government and buying special exemptions to regulation, taxation, and prosecution. This is corruption, pure and simple, of the government. WE DO NOT HAVE A WELL-DEFINED WAY TO PREVENT THIS CORRUPTION, NOR ANY WAY TO DEAL WITH IT, NOW THAT IT HAS BECOME SO BLATANTLY OBVIOUS THAT NO REALITY-BASED PERSON CAN DENY IT.

Our attempts to work within the legal framework: elections, lawsuits, public opinion; are all in vain. What is our next step, to protect ourselves, our families, and our idea of a nation?

[laconicsax]

1. During his citizenship hearing, Kurt Gödel famously pointed out that such a loophole existed.

No one knows what the exact loophole he thought he found was, but this could be it.

[Demeter]

3. from Wikipedia

On December 5, 1947, Einstein and Morgenstern accompanied Gödel to his U.S. citizenship exam, where they acted as witnesses. Gödel had confided in them that he had discovered an inconsistency in the U.S. Constitution, one that would allow the U.S. to become a dictatorship. Einstein and Morgenstern were concerned that their friend's unpredictable behavior might jeopardize his chances. Fortunately, the judge turned out to be Phillip Forman. Forman knew Einstein and had administered the oath at Einstein's own citizenship hearing. Everything went smoothly until Forman happened to ask Gödel if he thought a dictatorship like the Nazi regime could happen in the U.S. Gödel then started to explain his discovery to Forman. Forman understood what was going on, cut Gödel off, and moved the hearing on to other questions and a routine conclusion.<13><14>


Well, that's just ducky.

[Demeter]

4. PS: Thanks for the Clue

It was really helpful that you volunteered this information.

[Ruby the Liberal]

2. 3am, can't sleep, read this 4 times but am still not getting your point, D

Sorry. Stress adding to the mix of insomnia doesn't help.

[Betty Karlson]

6. This may be it.

Look at the bolted texts:

* the military has no funding that extends beyond two years. That is to say: it is dependent on every single congress, to do its bidding.

* Congress has the authority to issue laws

* congress has the ability to repell insurrection.

So if a fascist bunch takes hold of the US congress for longer than two years, issues fascist laws, and then orders the military to repell any resistance against those laws, you end up with a situation quite resemblant of 1935 in Germany.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

8. That scenario depends on the same group of congresspeople

being re-elected. If any caucus tried anything too radical the electorate only needs to turn them out of office once for their work to be undone. They would also need both houses of congress and enough to override a filibusters and a presidential veto. If they had that kind of electorate support then it would be hard to call it a coup.

And the military does not take orders from congress, it takes orders from the president. Congress only gets to decide what is purchased and in what quantities to provide for the military; hence the clause "To provide for--"

And "fascist laws" can be challenged in court. Plenty of laws, even less hyperbolically named ones, get challenged all the time. Even then I'm curious what kind of laws they would pass that could so undo what is actually a pretty decent document.

[readmoreoften]

5. Nope. A revolution is not legal. Good reason to have one, though.

[Demeter]

7. lunch kick

:kick:

[Kaleko]

9. No way to protect ourselves from a coup

that has already happened and is progressing nicely for the parasites who are eating away the flesh and bones of what's left of US democracy.

The only way forward that I can see is to become aware of the FACTS: to collectively face the awful truth unflinchingly and arrive at a clear diagnosis.

We might start by facing the fact that conspiracies to defraud the public are ubiquitous. They are happening on the highest levels of government and commerce everywhere, right now, as we speak! Start penetrating the veils of psy-ops propaganda that won't allow us an unobstructed view of the deception that all of us, but most pointedly Americans, have been subjected to for decades.

An awakening is taking place, but unfortunately not fast enough to stop the blood loss that is killing this dying patient nation.

[Demeter]

10. friday kick

:kick: