Unless we can get people to die earlier we will have to reform medicare and social security

[RB TexLa]

Those really are the choices.

[Little Star]

1. Where is Jack Kovorkin when you need him?

[TheDebbieDee]

23. See post # 4 below!

Alsame points out the third choice! Raise the income caps on Medicare and Soc Sec!

[OhioChick]

2. Screw those old people.....the rich NEED their tax breaks!!! n/t

[pleah]

3. What are you smoking?

:crazy:

[WinkyDink]

9. Republican dope.

;-)

[pleah]

33. .....

:silly:

[alsame]

4. Raise the cap on SS and open Medicare to all. nt

[Cool Logic]

28. You seem to be suggesting that the solution is to "load 'er up..,"

until the whole thing comes crashing down and kills us all.

[alsame]

43. What?

[avaistheone1]

45. What is that supposed to mean?

The Social Security system is sound for the next 26 years. What needs to be done to ensure its integrity beyond that time is to raise the ceiling on income...

"If we want to go back to 90 percent, the ceiling on income subject to the Social Security tax would need to be raised to $180,000.
Presto. Social Security’s long-term (beyond 26 years from now) problem would be solved.

So there’s no reason even to consider reducing Social Security benefits or raising the age of eligibility. The logical response to the increasing concentration of income at the top is simply to raise the ceiling."

http://robertreich.org/post/7940507194

[truedelphi]

85. What makes your comment so logical in terms of a solution is that

The more wealth a person has, the more likely they will live to see some of their Social Security and Medicare benefits.

Chris Rock has joked that black people should be able to receive Social Security at the age of 29, and in many ways that is not a joke!

[nashville_brook]

5. cut medicare and SS and you'll solve the problem of "living too long" right there.

[slipslidingaway]

24. They're working on it :( n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

86. That's the plan. n/t

[bullimiami]

6. Unless you increase the revenue.

Have those that can afford it pay a larger share.

[RB TexLa]

11. That would be a reform. I didn't go into how to reform it, just that with how long we keep

people alive it's one or the other.

[Bluenorthwest]

19. Who is 'we'? Life expectancy for African American Men is 70.9

And it is not rising, but falling. The illusion that 'people are living much longer' that comes from some 'life expectancy' stats has much more to do with infant survival rates than actual extended old age. Perhaps you would support smothering more newborns and cutting out the middle man?

[RB TexLa]

26. African Americans make up 13% of the US population

and I think you are referencing an average not a median on life expectancy.

[Bluenorthwest]

41. Who said median? And what about the content of what I said?

What a craven reply.

[WinkyDink]

7. So completely devoid of factual accuracy.

[Skink]

8. At this point I don't want Obama doing it.

[LaydeeBug]

10. Or we could make the crooks PAY THE FUND THAT THEY LOOTED BACK, since they didn't create jobs. nt

[patrice]

25. Right! Fact #1: They DEFAULTED on 30 years of Tax Cuts by NOT producing the JOBS.

[LaydeeBug]

53. preach! nt

[Ozymanithrax]

12. We need to reform our priorities, not Medicare and social security...

Raise the cap on Social Security, and expand Media re to all. Make citizens the priority not the wealth acquisition and empire.

[msongs]

13. Dear OP - you go first so you will be a part of your own solution :-) nt

[TransitJohn]

14. Just come out and say cut instead of reform.

I know I, for one, respect honesty a hell lot more than obfuscation. Especially when the allegation is false.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. Disgusting post free of any actual content

Good old Texas.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

16. Why?

Every individual who gets SS and Medicare pays for it over the course of their life time. Wanna fix SS? Take it out of the budget and make it's own thing. It was until the greedy politicians saw that it had surplus funds and they wanted their grubby paws in it. Take it back from them and smack their hands like you would a two year old pawing Granny's nicknacks.
Duckie

[dkf]

96. Not true. You get 4 dollars for every one dollar you put in to Medicare.

Yes you pay an amount but it doesn't necessarily pay for what you get.

[cherokeeprogressive]

17. Is this your way of saying that when Obama and the Democrats make the cuts Obama Defenders said

NEVER would be made, that you understand why and they have your blessing?

That's the strangest 180 I've ever seen. It's like a 540-360+270-270... or something like that.

[suffragette]

37. + 1,000

[sabrina 1]

18. That is false. It is a rightwing lie.

People on democratic boards should know better than to fall for that old, old, Heritage Foundation lie.

SS is the most fiscally successful program EVER, and it is good for decades to come without lifting a finger.

What needs reform is the Federal Govt's spending priorities, such as on the Military, on tax cuts for the wealthy etc.

When they do that, all debts to their creditors, of which SS is only one, can be paid.

Of course they dont' WANT to stop playing war games and giving tax breaks to the wealthy. But they will have to, they have debts and they now must tighten their belts, pull up their bootstraps, the free ride is over and start paying their debts, starting with SS.

Unrec'd for Heritage foundation deception.

[B Calm]

20. Hell we are dying earlier, I look at the obituary every night. .

[patrice]

21. Social Security's "problem" isn't intrinsic to SS. It's because they have been BORROWING against it,

BECAUSE they refuse to pay taxes.

Medicare NEEDS Reform because it in fact DOES need reform.

Other than that, you do have the ECONOMICS of it right.

[slipslidingaway]

22. Improved Medicare for All would be a great start which is one reason I've ...

supported it for years. When Obama excluded it from the HC debate it was just a matter of time before we would hear that we need to do something about Medicare. The boomers did not suddenly appear overnight and HC costs have been increasing at a rapid rate, never mind advances in medicine.

All of that spelled we need a national HC system, but then we had the public option to distract attention from a system for everyone.

:(

[patrice]

27. That's what I'm in this for. I WANT it for the kids, ALL of them, for the rest of their lives. nt

[slipslidingaway]

32. Me too, it is so annoying to hear about the boomers now and the strain they will ...

put on the system, plus everyone should be able to have access to HC as they do in many other countries.

[patrice]

39. Yes, one of the many things that makes me wonder what the fucking hell happened to my country!

[Warpy]

29. Those of us who didn't spend our working lives in air conditioned offices

tend to die as young as manual laborers did back in the 1950s, that golden age all the pubbies want to return to but without the paychecks or the social safety net.

That's what the pubbies fail to understand when they callously suggest raising the age of eligibility, that and the fact that our corporate expiration date of 55 years old kicks in and leaves us in minimum wage hell--if we're lucky--until we are eligible.

The best idea of all is to get out there and work to throw Republicans out of office, period. We can no longer afford them, not individually or nationally.

[truedelphi]

30. Actually, people are dying earlier.

The stats now on the books include the generation BEFORE the Baby Boomers.

Baby Boomers are dying at a much younger rate than their parents did.

My mom died in December. Age ninety. Her best friend outlived her.

My two best friends are dead already. One died at the age of 49, one at the age of 59.

Cancer, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's, heart attacks, AIDS etc have all taken a hit on this generation of boomers.

And mortality rates will worsen in the newer generations. Already the Depleted Uranium fallout from wars fought elsewhere is hitting kids in the United States, where cancer rates for very rare brain tumors IN BABIES are on the rise.

[cordelia]

31. Despicable

[SammyWinstonJack]

57. Quite, but not unexpected.

[gkhouston]

34. No, those are the choices the job destroyers would like to limit us to. n/t

[peace frog]

35. Ridiculous and fact-free

We will certainly die earlier and in greater numbers when access to healthcare for seniors is slowly but inexorably dismantled.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

36. When the rapture hits SS will have 100 trillion surplus, you can count on it, should be

happening a few months ago.

[C_U_L8R]

38. Culling the herd

is what the rightwingers truly want.
Its sick.

[hansberrym]

40. Save your breath, they can't handle truth. If it ain't spin, it won't sink in

Projected long-run program costs for both Medicare and Social Security are not sustainable under currently scheduled financing, and will require legislative corrections if disruptive consequences for beneficiaries and taxpayers are to be avoided.

The financial challenges facing Social Security and Medicare should be addressed soon. If action is taken sooner rather than later, more options and more time will be available to phase in changes so that those affected can adequately prepare


http://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/index.html




While the combined OASDI program continues to fail the long-range test of close actuarial balance, it does satisfy the conditions for short-range financial adequacy. Combined trust fund assets are projected to exceed one year’s projected benefit payments for more than ten years, through to 2035. However, the Disability Insurance (DI) program satisfies neither the long-range nor short-range tests for financial adequacy. DI costs have exceeded non-interest income since 2005 and trust fund exhaustion is projected for 2018; thus changes to improve the financial status of the DI program are needed soon

[Skittles]

42. you're buying rightwing propaganda

[cabot]

44. or better yet

take a cue from "logan's run" and put everyone over 35 on carousel. :sarcasm:

[REP]

46. Actually, they're not - unless by 'reform' you mean 'stop stealing from Social Security'

Social Security is sound. That's why it's stolen from year after year, yet it keeps being sound. Look beyond what you're told by scaremongers.

[RB TexLa]

48. I didn't go into any specifics of reform

[REP]

54. True, you didn't; but unfortunately 'reform' in this context carries loaded connotations

[RB TexLa]

56. No, there weren't any connotations in my post. I know because I posted it.

[REP]

60. You did use 'reform' in the context of Social Security, which does carry dubious connotations

Like it or not. I'd explain how it works, but this is not the correct setting to explain linguistics.

[RB TexLa]

61. I meant not to imply any specific reforms. And I didn't. If I had wanted to I would have typed

them and caused them to be visible in the post.

[REP]

64. Did you mean "imply"? What you wrote makes no sense with "infer"

[RB TexLa]

65. sure, ok

[REP]

67. You have demonstrated that you use words improperly or do not know their meaning.

Point to me. Thank you for going along with this demonstration.

[RB TexLa]

68. Yes, I used it improperly. I then changed it.

[REP]

70. Good. You are capable of learning. Shall we work on connotations?

[RB TexLa]

71. Go ahead and play

But I have to go somewhere. Have fun.

[REP]

72. What words, thoughts and emotions come to your mind when you see the word "child"

[U4ikLefty]

84. LOL, giving you some cyber-respect knuckles .

Good stuff

[XanaDUer]

101. Thank you for "getting it"

it IS sound, and they want to steal it.

[scarletwoman]

47. Okay. You first.

[Forkboy]

62. Read my mind lol.

:)

[scarletwoman]

73. Well, it kinda seemed like the obvious response. On the other hand, I think hawking shares

in Soylent Green, Inc. works, too. :D

[Forkboy]

77. Heh!

:rofl:

[anarch]

49. or you could just have universal healthcare instead

and something to improve social security. And find a way to stop being at war forever.

[readmoreoften]

50. Let's start with the Republicans and Blue Dog Dems. I'm down.

[Bluebear]

51. You first.

[HughBeaumont]

98. He does not die first with you.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

52. Hey, that's kind of ironic, don't ya think. If we "reform" SS and Medicare people will die earlier.

Wow. It's almost as if it's by design or something. :think:

[Imagevision]

die earlier? umm... I believe that's the idea, how many billions would be saved all they

have to do is take away Part D (Prescriptions) and the millions of boomers will simply die off. I'm against this but the GOP isn't.

[L0oniX]

55. You are welcome to go shoot yourself anytime!

[WinkyDink]

58. Young'uns better hope Granny ain't revising her will.

[Contrary1]

59. You won't have to worry about me getting medicare and social security...

I'm gonna commit three felonies, and plead guilty.

[Forkboy]

63. I agree, let's nuke Texas and speed things up.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

74. Dude, that really hurts.

I'd never advocate killing you and all your family. :(

[Forkboy]

76. My post was merely reflecting the crassness represented in the OP.

I was working as a screenprinter when 9/11 happened, and a couple days later a man came in and ordered two dozen shirts with a mushroom cloud and the words "Nuke Afghanistan" on them. I told my boss I wasn't making those. He said help make them or quit. I quit.

Trust me, I'm not in favor of nuking anybody, anywhere, anytime. I am sorry it hurt you, but my post was not even close to being serious, just crass sarcasm. My ex-wife lives in Texas, and I sure don't want her to be hurt in any way, let alone a whole state's worth of people.

I am sorry my comment hurt you though.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

87. I understand

I'm sorry. I'm not usually that overly sensitive. I simply have had a bad few days and I came here to be with more similar thinkers. Then, I no doubt, overreacted to the comment out of an over load in emotion.

Please, accept my apology as well? I should have been able to see the blatant sarcasm in the reply to the OP. I've been here a long time, and I know your posting style. I should have known what your intentions were.

[Forkboy]

90. You owe me no apologies.

Sarcasm is tough to discern in written form as no inflection of voice is heard. And I deliberately refuse to use the sarcasm icon we have here on DU, as to me the whole point of sarcasm is lost when you tell people it's sarcasm. Your misreading was entirely understandable, and no apology is needed, though I certainly appreciate the thought.

I hope things get better for you soon. I understand being too emotional at times, and I tend to avoid DU and read books or listen to lots and lots of music at those times. This is probably not the best place to come if you need to relax. :)

[ZombieHorde]

66. There are other choices too...

Such as raising the SS cap, and raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans.

eta: Did this really not occur to you?

[RB TexLa]

69. Those would all fall under reform.

[Jack Sprat]

75. Not necessary really.

Enough of us oldtimers have been exposed to enough pesticides like DDT, nuclear tests and radiation, citywide chemical sprays for mosquitoes, and asbestos in our homes that we will begin dying in large numbers too. Then, you won't need draconian changes to your young lives. As sure as we enter the twilight years as many of us already have, I can assure you we are also beginning to die just as the generation before us has.

You're so fortunate not to ever worry about getting old yourself and can make posts like this never having to question that.

[Leopolds Ghost]

78. You First. n/t

:evilfrown:

[Leopolds Ghost]

79. Anyone notice how out-of-context this post would seem if it were not that Congress/WH happened to be

Winding up a PR campaign right about now to prepare American voters to accept the sudden imposition of a Super-Commission

without warning and without relevance to America's debt problem?

[TheKentuckian]

80. So...do you favor the soylent factories or do you have some ideas or are you implying

that reform is reform or what?

[philly_bob]

81. Disinformation. (nt)

[workinclasszero]

82. Or we could make the rich and big business pay some damn taxes

We could also shut down 3/4 of the useless military bases we have around the world. We could also cut the obscene defense budget and stop two or three endless wars we are in.

But..

Naw lets just push Grandma and Grandpa of a fucking cliff, wash our hands of it and go to church feeling all holy and everything! :puke:

[anneboleyn]

95. Amen! And roll back the preposterous Bush tax cuts for the rich.

[Maru Kitteh]

83. I took you a while, but you finally got one RG Bolen. Congratulations.

We know how you like these "spirited discussions."

[Starry Messenger]

88. Do we get to pick who?

I have a list.

[Capitalocracy]

89. Well, life expectancy IS decreasing...

But if we could improve the jobs situation, we probably wouldn't need any reform. And minor tweaks are all that are needed now, not cuts, not austerity of any kind.

[Trajan]

91. Show the math ....

Or it's just hot air .....

[yurbud]

92. Social Security is solvent until 2037 unless Congress plans to not pay back what they borrowed

from it. Even at that point, it could also easily be fixed by raising the cap and/or rate.

Given what Wall Street has done with job based pensions, and their fraud with other investment instruments, we need a strong public based retirement safety net more than ever.

I don't think we should kill it just because Wall Street has a hard on to steal that money.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

93. What about the thousands of boomers who died before they could collect SS?

For example, the 58,000 soldiers killed in the Vietnam War?

Or my sister, who was born in 1948 and died of brain cancer in 1990? She worked for about 22 years.

Or the many other boomers killed in accidents, car wrecks, cancer, illnesses, etc.???

A lot of people born in a particular generation do NOT make it to 62 or 65. People forget that.

[indurancevile]

94. That is unmitigated baloney.

[Samantha]

97. The Republicans have already got this covered!

In cahoots with the HMO's and PPO's who generously give to Republicans' political campaigns, those companies have promised to deliver even more serious numbers of Denial of Claims forms submitted by participants older than 55. The fewer cranky old codgers sucking money out of the health care system with Medicare in support, the more funds that will accumulate in the Social Security Trust Fund for Republicans to spend on their sacred cows. :eyes:

Sam

[NashVegas]

99. Imagine the Across-the-Board Savings If We Eliminated Disease "Management" and Other Miracle Cures

For example, cancer diagnoses of "We can control, but not cure."

[county worker]

100. They don't have to die earlier but they just might.

Take what we spend in Afghanistan and Iraq in a week and use it to pay for Medicare services.

Why are we caring for people in those countries and saying we have to cut services for our own citizens?

Negotiate for perscription drug prices as a single payer. Tell the drug companies what they will get paid for a drug.

Let Medicare compete with the insurance industry by paying providers more than the insurance industry by having Medicare for all. The more well people we have in the mix the more money there will be to spend on those who need it. Offer Medicare to young people as an alternative to insurance companies and at a lower price. Subsidize students and those with low incomes. Subsidize students until their education loans are paid off.

Think outside the box