Words matter.

[DFab420]

The Bible, the Quran, the Torah. All words that have founded powerful religious movements.

Nigger, Spic, Wop, Mic. All words that have the power to insight hate and pain

Did any of you who believe words don't matter ever have a dream?

A dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."?

A dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood?

Are you telling me those words don't matter?

it was words that made us look up at the heavens and land on the moon. "We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

Don't sit there and say words don't matter.


"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."


It's a copout, and a weak one at that, to claim that speeches and talking don't matter. Our language, our ability to express thought through speaking, is perhaps on of the most powerful, most important parts of what makes us...us.

http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/jfk-space.htm
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkihaveadream.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrp-v2tHaDo

[markpkessinger]

1. Words matter, but only when they are backed up by a willingness to commit oneself to their meaning

Otherwise, they are, as Shakespeare put it, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

[avaistheone1]

2. Yup. What you said.

[William769]

3. +1.

[readmoreoften]

4. +1. Words can quickly become lies if they're not acted upon.

[DFab420]

6. True, but as this President has shown us. He is more then willing to back up his words with actions.

DADT Repeal:
"The U.S. military should scrap its "don't ask, don't tell" policy that punishes service members who disclose they are gay or lesbian, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said here today... 'Anybody who is willing to serve our country and die on a battlefield for us and our patriots, that's the criteria for whether or not they should be able to serve in our military,'

Killing Osama bin Laden:
In August 2007, candidate Obama made clear that as President he would kill bin Laden if he got the chance and he wouldn’t let Pakistan stand in the way. “If we have actionable intelligence about high value terrorist targets {in Pakistan} and President Musharraf won’t act, we will.”

On working with Republican Congress:
I don't want to pit Red America against Blue America. I want to be President of the United States of America. speech, Nov. 10, 2007

Guantanamo Bay facility and ending torture.
We believe that the Army field manual reflects the best judgment of our military, that we can abide by a rule that says we don't torture, but that we can still effectively obtain the intelligence that we need,"

I could do more but I think I've made my point

[markpkessinger]

8. "I still support a public option . . ."

Words uttered after he had given it away at the bargaining table.


I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

[DFab420]

11. He does support it. But he also supported getting a deal done so that at least some 30 million

Americans could receive healthcare. But your right, he should have vetoed the bill and waited for the "United States National Health Care Act" that..oh wait that failed in the congress....soooooooo yea...I guess those 30 million Americans are just a token achievement.



http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/health_insurance_and_managed_care/health_care_reform/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Health_Care_Act

[markpkessinger]

13. That's a level of hair splitting that doesn't fly with most Americans

Speaking of something as if it were still an option, when in fact you've already taken it off the table, is at best misleading, and by most people's lights, an outright lie.

What about the campaign promises to restore the rule of law? Instead he gives a pass to the war criminals of the previous administration, and then proceeds not only to continue some of the worst of the Bush policies concerning rendition, but to strengthen them. What about his aggressive prosecution of whistleblowers? What about his outrageous use of the State Secrets privilege, a practice he roundly denounced Bush's use of during the campaign? What about claiming for himself the right to assassinate an American citizen without a shred of due process (something not even Bush/Cheney had the temerity to do)? On all of these issues his actions after being elected have run directly counter to his campaign representations.

[DFab420]

23. awwww..damn the subilties of politics!

Too much hairsplitting! It should be black and white or not at al! How can we expect the American people to understand that you can support something, even when you know it's not possible, and work towards a goal that is?! too confusing!!! ARGH!!!!.......

:banghead: :banghead:

I mean how dare he arrest and prosecute military whistleblowers who outed national security risks! I mean what is this..

How dare he says he has the right to kill a leader of Al-Qaida, one who has renounced his American roots, even though he's a terrorist he's still a citizen damnit! It's not like criminals here ever get shot right??

HOW DARE he not embroil the White House in what would become a dirty long and carrer ending campaign against the previous administration, one that had no backing from the Senate or the Congress or the Supreme Court. I mean why wouldn't he just do it anyways!!!!11! GAWD!

[markpkessinger]

24. I never said he should have "vetoed the act"

I said he should not have represented it as being a realistic option AFTER he had taken it off the table. Most people consider that to be an outright lie.

[DFab420]

26. Why isn't is a realistic option? I think Vermont would have something to say about that.

Oh and Massachusetts

[markpkessinger]

27. When it had already been negotiated away....

...it ceased to be a realistic option that was on the table. But Obama spoke of it as if it were still on the table.

[DFab420]

28. He spoke of it as the thing he wanted. He spoke of it as the ideal that he wanted.

Because when you are negotiating, you keep pushing your main points....

[markpkessinger]

31. This wasn't in the context of negotiating...

...His statement was in a public forum. It was a deliberate attempt to mislead.

[tridim]

10. Are you willing to commit yourself to make certain that good ideas become reality?

Or are you suggesting we should just give up before trying?

[markpkessinger]

17. No one individual has the power to "make certain" good ideas become reality...

...but I am willing to make certain I will do everything within my power to try to move things in that direction. Part of that is not being so slavishly loyal to a party label as to be unwilling to call out any elected official -- president included -- who is acting in a manner contrary the way he/she represented himself/herself.

[dtexdem]

5. Word smatter.

Who doubts that words matter?

[DFab420]

7. It's a common Meme here that anytime Obama speaks it's just words words words....

and that somehow makes it unimportant.

[bigwillq]

9. Do you really care what people think here?

:shrug:

I'm beginning to question who's more unbalanced: some of the posters that make outrageous posts, or the ones that take them seriously?

[DFab420]

12. I'm trying to elevate the level of discussion here. Liberals and progressive are meant to be

intellectuals, and it does us a great disservice to have websites that people can visit only to see the kind of ridiculousness that goes on here.


I realize this is a small corner of a vast universe of interwebs, but we can set the bar a bit higher.

[markpkessinger]

14. So you are the self-appointed policeman of what is considered to be "intellectual," eh? n/t

[DFab420]

20. No, I just have an understanding of what the word means, and therefore what falls under it's

definition.

I also have an understanding of the difference between well thought out arguments based on fact, rather then arguments based on gut reactions or narratives.

The narrative that President Barack Obama is just nothing but talk is silly, anyone who is intellectually honest would have to admit that he has done some impressive things with his time as President. ie. DADT Repeal, death of OBL, etc etc.

[markpkessinger]

21. And no who disagrees with you has an understanding of what the word means?

I don't think anybody on DU has said President Obama has done nothing that has been at all positive. But the biggest crisis facing the country, which affects far more people in far bigger ways than the laundry list of a half dozen good things you keep rehearsing put together, is the unemployment crisis, which he has not only failed to address, but has actually now signed into law a deal that is fairly certain to exacerbate the problem, even if it avoids an immediate default.

President Obama has said a lot of things. He has followed through on some. He has been unable to follow through on others. And on still others, he has deliberately acted in a manner that was counter to his campaign representations (while trying to pass off the shift as owing to the second category).

[bigwillq]

15. "Meant" to be? Maybe.

But most are not.


Carry on. I won't stop you from doing your civil service.

[sabrina 1]

18. You can relax and stop worrying about what 'people'

might think of what they 'see here'. Being that it's one of the biggest Democratic forums on the internet, I don't think we need to care much about what rightwingers or DLCers or whatevery they call themselves these think. In fact maybe they could learn something being that their views are so unpopular with the American people.

Let the 'people' you are worried about start their own website. But then, they wouldn't attract too many members or viewers I suppose. They do exist, but most that I've checked in on, are pretty boring. They do not represent real people, just political operatives, some of the most out of touch people on the internet.

[Bluerthanblue]

16. what is the point otherwise?

If it's all just meaningless keystrokes on a keyboard why bother?

If it's 'unbalanced' to seek to interact with others using the internet- what would "balanced" be?

Yup, there are people who get their jollies from harassing people and causing trouble, but how do you know for sure who they are and is it right to sit by in silence?

"“We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the vitriolic words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people.” MLKjr.

[bigwillq]

19. I can only answer for myself.

1) I did not say it was meaningless.

"If it's all just meaningless keystrokes on a keyboard why bother?"

I do it for fun, to find and learn info., chat with some buddies, cause trouble, laugh, debate, among other things.

Not sure if "balanced" was the right word there. In regards with how you used the word "unbalanced", I wasn't talking about interaction, but how folks respond to that interaction.

Great quote by MLK.

:hi:

[Bluerthanblue]

22. that's fair enough-

I do it for many of the same reasons.

I also think it's important to ask people what they are saying if I don't understand, and to confront those who I feel are speaking destructive or intentionally hurtful ways.

I've been called up short more times than I'd like to admit, and I'm sure I'll be humbled many times to come- but I am grateful to those who took the time and effort to set me straight, or cause me to question my attitude or position. (the gratitude may not be immediate, but it's there) :P

[rustydog]

25. Standing ovation. Point well made!

;)

[joeybee12]

29. What phucking point does this have to do with the debt deal? Has anyone

used these words to describe Obama. BIGGEST PHUCKING STRAW MAN FAIL...EVAH!

[DFab420]

30. It's spelt. FUCKING.. If you wish to swear. Do so correctly.

I'm confused about your straw man reference as well.. since I wasn't saying people used words to describe Obama.. I was saying how people say that Obama is just all talk, and that words are meaningless, when in fact, words (Especially when spelt correctly) carry more weight then we give them credit for.


So what is the straw man?