From some of my neighbors in REAL LIFE

[nadinbrzezinski]

I get the feeling that the reelection is NOT in the bag. People who have always VOTED are thinking is don't matter anymore and will stay home.

This is what people are taking out from this debate. And while I agree with them getting them to the state of mind where you vote regardless and work outside the electoral system to organize and all that is hard. This is a very Latin, I'd say Mexican concept,but it is truly alien to Americans.

But if that feeling is more wide spread than just my small circle of MIDDLE CLASS people... who have always voted.... that will make change harder. This is what this theater is leading to. So I find myself in a strange position, you are right, but still you must vote and be willing to do other things. WE NEED TO ORGANIZE. And as I said, voting will once again matter once we start primarying all these people from the left.

Alas this is where we are now... and people have concluded, at least locally, that less evilism ain't gonna cut it. And these are RELIABLE democratic votes.

[LiberalLoner]

1. K&R I agree we must vote anyway. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. I feel a strange sense of deja vu

When I was 18, newly minted voter, we were camping with my Scout troop. We knew it did not matter. But we still went to the nearest town to carry that responsibility and vote in the presidential election. So here we are, standing in line, with local farmers, chickens running around. and children playing. And that was the talk. We were voting, not because it really mattered, but because it was a duty. (Granted a few were voting for the free taquitos, and I will let you complete that thought, I wonder how far we are from having that happen AGAIN... the Machine used to buy votes in other ways)

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Making sure the republican nominee doesn't go to the WH is important, true.

What is just as important is to START NOW to find democratic candidates for the House and Senate, not wait until next year. Start organizing, get financing of the campaigns. Get strong positions on issues. Do research to see the community and business backing of your candidates. Grassroots with accountability.

For democratic incumbents, make your name familiar at their home and D.C. offices. Same thing as above if your Senator is running in 2012. Screen and support a new democratic candidate if your current Senator is republican. Consider a primary candidate if you're not getting "good mileage" out of your current democratic Senator.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. I'll take this a step further

we need to make the Coffee party truly the parallel organization to the Party... and from those ranks our nominees must rise. This is what the tea Party did, and it works in modern political terms

Oh and run our people for everything, from dog catcher on.

[Doctor_J]

21. We don't have any billion-dollar backers

and no meida sympathy. You can try your best, but the Coffee Party will never become the Tea Party, for those two reasons.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. I disagree, it will take far more work, but fully disagree

and I do not expect the media to get behind anything we insignificant, to be ignored, people do.

Of course your other choice is to do nothing.

[marions ghost]

33. Exactly--this is the biggest hurdle

where are the billion-dollar backers??? This is the main obstacle.

We do have some media support...

But no big backers want to buy us a coffee.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. And it's alwaya been that way

I just joined the coffee party... and will see about becoming very active in it. It is either that, or creating a whole parallel organization. We have done this in the past as a people... it is somewhere, I'd like to think, in us.

[marions ghost]

40. There is a coffee party?

didn't know that.

OK nadin, take us to that coffee party. Who are they & what's the plan? Will it depend on small donations to grow?--because big money backers will be looking for better ...investments.

nadin for cat herder :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Here

http://www.coffeepartyusa.com/about-us

Been playing with this for more than a year. Hartman mentioned them...

They are one way... there are others.

[marions ghost]

46. thanks

the coffee party is not affiliated with a political party, whereas the tea party was embraced by the Rethuglicans and that's how they gained ground so fast.

but thanks--I will check it out further

[marions ghost]

47. Ideas on this site are good

This Annabel Park makes a lot of sense. --"Do we have to go through these culture wars for everything?"
"We all agree the machine has to be fixed." "Creating a new political culture...honesty, truth-seeking"

Kinda wish it wasn't called Coffee Party (makes you think of tea party too much) --but I guess that horse is out of the barn

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. It was formed as a counter point

That is why.

[marions ghost]

51. I get that

but it seems to trivialize the mission..."tea party" has historical roots so I guess that gave it that revolutionary era cachet, but "coffee party" sounds kind of joky. Tho I DO like calling it a party.

Just considering the marketing angles --the way my head works. Never mind, I think the organization looks good and I will stay tuned.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. That is why I finally joined.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. That is why I finally joined.

[Mimosa]

3. Hearing the same

'No matter what we think, it doesn't matter. They're going to do what they want' in slight variations is what I'm hearing everywhere. I know people aren't happy.

My best friend thinks much of the drama was intended to disillusion the public.

I wish I had money to partipate. It looks like only the rich get heard. :(

[Javaman]

4. Let me know what we are voting for?

I have always respected your opinion, but this time, you have to sell me on voting.

I usually vote straight dem ticket, but given the landscape, the BS, this faux debt ceiling bill and a list of other issues I have, I'm seriously considering not voting for prez. I will just leave the space blank.

All politics is local and as such, I'm beginning to believe that is were my vote matters. National elections, not so much.

Considering I live in Texas, in the grand scheme of things, my vote on the national stage means very little to begin with.

[trueblue2007]

6. we are voting for PRESIDENT OBAMA

[Javaman]

59. good for you...

:shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. You got a PM

[xiamiam]

27. everyone i know feels the same way..like we're stuck in a box with no way out

and we are..i've voted straight dem for 40 years..i always feel so good when i vote..but i cant bring myself to vote for the o..just cant

[chill_wind]

5. Less Evilism.

The sum of our entire new party platform on a bumper-sticker.

[Liberalynn]

17. +1

[TBF]

8. Interesting that some of the middle class are finally getting the

message that we blue collar folks have known all along. For us, economically, it doesn't matter who is in office.

[chill_wind]

45. When BushCo and the neocons and neolib war-hawks in both parties begin pimping

for the Iraq war, gas was 1.73/gallon in our little town, had just climbed to a record high.
We were struggling with a small Mom and Pop business at the time, with no health insurance and barely able to buy food and gas after the heat and electric and other bills were paid. Very much the working poor of another kind. My husband, not particularly a political partisan of any kind, said the weekend Bush and Congress signed off on invading, "Bastards! And this won't end until EVERYBODY in the American middle class is feeling it, and they're not going to feel it until all their toys and junk they were told to go shopping for starts costing them a lot more and they feel it in their pocketbooks, which might only be when gas gets up to $4.00/gallon. MAYBE."

$4.00 gas sounded like such a hyperbolic stretch to both of us at the time when he said that in 2003, but we both knew what he meant.

Eight years later, ten actually, what's it going to take? WHAT??

[Proud Public Servant]

9. Let me add to that

I have a college-aged daughter, attending one of the most famously liberal colleges in the country. In 2008, everyone she knew voted, and voted for Obama; his election set off a wave of euphoria on campus.

This summer she's home, and many of her friends are interning in town and so gracing our dinner table. Not one of them is entusiastic about teh president; and while they will dutifully vote Dem in 2012 (because they are teh kinds of kids who are reliable voters, even at a young age), they are extremely pessimistic about their fellow students, most of whom they predict will sit out the next election.

[Brickbat]

11. It is a mistake to ever count on the youth vote.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. And these are the kids we need to get involved in building

the kind of parallel organization that will primary these people from the left WITHIN the party. Aka will run as democrats and win a few, lose most of them. But that is what it will take, IMO, apart of strikes and the rest of things we need to be willing to do.

[CC]

12. I might not be happy about this

debt ceiling fiasco but staying home and not voting worked out so well in the mid-terms. Sorry but anyone that pays attention and stays home is as guilty as any tea-bagger that votes for the crazy. Least that is the feeling in my small circle of middle class on down people. I have yet to see any change for the better happen when the informed with held their vote in protest or disgust.

If they are really that unhappy with Obama then work to get a House & Senate that will be able to force him to the left. You'll have better luck getting him to tack left than any Republican that would take his place.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. They have concluded the sysstem is so damn broken

it is not worth it. That is where primaries come in... FROM THE LEFT.

You should worry that peiple have concluded it does not matter who is elected... same shit sandwich. To paraphrase one of my neighbors... it does not matter, both are after my social security, even if one is more than the other. In the end they;ll get it.

[Donnachaidh]

14. people are sick of the *lesser of two evils* choice

and rightly so.

[Autumn]

16. That is just what I have been getting

from the people I know. I can't believe it's isolated.

[Vincardog]

19. I am tired of voting for Democratic candidates and getting reTHUGlicans when. We they are elected

don't need any more Trojan Horse Democrats. If you are going to act as a republican run on their ticket we need the ballot space for REAL DEMOCRATS.
REAL DEMOCRATS for the ill-informed are those who support WORKING PEOPLE, the Environment and human rights for EVERYBODY

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. That is why we need to take a page out of the tea party

and organize a parallel organization and PRIMARY their asses. We will win a few, and lose most, but that alone will start to send a message.

[Vincardog]

22. Let's start with the primary for President in 2012

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. I'm not sure if we have time for THAT ONE,

though if Sanders gets in, he'll get cash from me.

[Vincardog]

26. WE don't have to win. We just have to get him on the record

[Doctor_J]

25. It is AMAZING what an opportuniy was squandered by this president

When I describe him as a total failure, this is what I refer to. You can point to all of the "lists of accomplishments" you want, but he could have destroyed the Republican party and instead has destroyed his own.

[Vincardog]

28. BINGO . BO does us no favors by promoting the balance of our side giving everything their side

wants. He should have begun by pointing out the abject failure of conservative ideas. Then laid out a LIBERAL plan to remedy the many ails facing the country and begun by prosecuting the aWoL cabal.

[xiamiam]

29. well thats an accomplishment to some..totally agree with you

and for the first time in my life i feel we have no way out of this mess..quite a difference from the millions of us who held hope for change..

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. And to paraphrase another one of my neighbors

this is what he wanted to do.

[mmonk]

31. People need a reason to vote. If they feel there is no reason, they won't,

especially when it doesn't matter anymore in their eyes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. and here is where we are... it don't matter anymore

that is what people are concluding, and all the "threats" of President Bachmann are met with shrugs and oh well. At least we will be attacked by a known quantity.

[marions ghost]

36. I'm with you but without big money...

how? ...

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. You start by getting together with your neighbors

If you want to be inspired, Social Security came from the Granger Party, which organized itself, from three people (who started it) in the Texas pandhandle in the 1870s. THey had the same feeling. Yes times are different. I'd hazard to say the web makes it a tad easier actually, potentially.

[marions ghost]

43. Oh I get the idea and

am a big believer in starting small and having faith that a good idea will catch fire as I come from a family of successful small biz owners. Vision, hard work, pulling together, flexibility.

But...my neighbors? They would think I was nuts. My neighborhood is very diverse--from trailers to one-off McMansions, all mixed together. Everyone is what you'd call "insular," not community minded.
If you don't mean my "neighbors" literally--then I could imagine it. Using the web to organize like-mindeds.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. At this point I mean the latter

though hard times at times break the insularity and these times are getting harder,

[BattyDem]

34. Yeah, I've been hearing that, too.

"What's the point of voting ... they don't care about us ... this country is owned by the rich ... I thought Obama was on our side ... it doesn't matter who the President is, we always get screwed!"

2012 is going to be very tough. Frankly, I'm not sure organizing is going to help. The people I talk to see it like this...
The Republicans threatened to crash the economy if they didn't get their own way and instead of fighting hard and taking a strong stand against their un-American, un-democratic tactics, Obama forged a "compromise" which protected the rich and the corporations, while screwing everyone else. It doesn't matter if they understand the actual details of the plan because they see the bottom line, which is this: all cuts, no revenues and in exchange the thugs didn't crash the US (and possibly the world) economy. In other words, he paid the ransom ... and there's no positive way to spin that!

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Organize outside the two parties.

Take a page out of the tea parry and create a parallel organization and primary democrats from the left, I expect to lose most, but the more we do it, the more the message will be received. The coubtry is ripe for a third party, but given how BOTH parties have made it almost impossible to register, let alone run, with third parties...well accidentally the habdlers of the tea party gave us part of the keys.

[BattyDem]

57. I totally agree that we need to do that ...

the problem is getting others motivated to do it, too. Seriously, even the "always hopeful and optimistic" people I know are just ... beaten. :(

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. I know and I have to think this is on purpose.

Keep the illusion of having a democracy and ignore the people.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zappaman]

39. " If Obama is the Democratic candidate, the next president will be a Republican. "

Bookmarked cuz I love predictions and will revisit this one in 2012.

[guruoo]

60. That's what happens

on DU when one advocates for the defeat of a Democratic candidate.

Post was in serious need of a fact check, anyway.
Just might be looking at a disinfo trend here...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/searchresults.html?q=Yo_Mama&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&sa=Search&domains=democraticunderground.com&client=pub-7805397860504090&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Wel they are democratic principles of the THIRD WAY

democrats.. this is the new dominant faction in the party. And the pretense is not there any more.

Parties change and this one is leaving it's base behind.

[LongTomH]

50. This has been a useful discussion - mostly!

I'm hearing a lot of negativism and despair, and believe me, I can relate. But there have been useful suggestions.

The Coffee Party, Democracy for America, Move to Amend, Van Jones group, all have made a good beginning; all of them have part of the solution. But they're all small, splinter groups. At some point, there needs to be a joining up of these groups; that can either be under an umbrella group or maybe a more creative alternative, some means of communication between them. By communication, I don't mean just messaging (That's a start, only a start!); but working together on common goals. Suggestions?

[marions ghost]

54. Do you see an umbrella group as

supporting the Democratic party, or as a separate political party? A separate party without serious backing and without a true multiple party system would be doomed IMO. The Greens tried & gave it about the best effort we're going to see (and splintered the Dem vote...etc etc)...

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. First step join the one that strikes your fancy.

And get active... The rest, I think, will come organically.

[Kermitt Gribble]

55. I'm hearing the same things.

My 69 year old dad, who has lived his whole life in the rust belt supporting Dems and unions, told me last week he is considering switching his affiliation to Independent. His friends are contemplating the same thing. This party has become a sorry excuse for what it once was...