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Hey, I'm glad we got those revenue increases in this deal...

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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 08:36 AM
Original message
Hey, I'm glad we got those revenue increases in this deal...
Wait, what? Increases?

Ah yes, yet another instance where I get the deep seated feeling we all were just had.

Obama extents the cuts for the rich for 2 more years earlier this year, now he agrees to cuts with no increase in revenue.

Who wins here? Not me, not you, not the millions of Americans who are still struggling and those still out of work. Nope. not us.

This whole thing has to be one of the most cleverly choreographed pieces of political kabuki theater I have ever seen.

The repukes framed it as scraps thrown to them, when basically they got just about ever thing they got.

While the Dems, trumpeted the need to reach an agreement as do or die. Yes it was do or die, but for us, no the rich, not the politicians, not for the corporations. But what did we get by calling, writing, tweeting, and whatever the hell else? No much. But Obama gets a opportunity to tought how the American people demanded a deal, but like everything else, the devil is in the details. We may have contacted him en masse, but we on the thinking left, didn't want a deal that didn't include an increase in revenue let alone taxes.

And again, Obama goes on record as saying, "this deal must include an increase in revenue".

And what happened?

Oh we know the answer, it' begins with an "we got" and ends with an "fucked".

So the debt ceiling is raised and rightly so. But at what cost?

Once again, the beltway wizards of stupid have proven themselves to be completely out of touch with reality or with the people of this nation.

So here we are, left with a "damned if you do, damned if you don't "compromise" on the backs of the people who can afford it least.

They will now wipe their collective brows, they will back slap and handshake each other, they will go on their propaganda outlets praising this or feigning relief while the rest of us have vital programs cut, have even less in our pockets, and still no new jobs for those who haven't had one in years.

Yeah, this is a win alright but for whom?

When this whole mess started, I told my GF, just watch, we are going to be witness to the most incredible performance of political kabuki stagecraft we have yet to witness.

Tell me I was wrong.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. It's the best he can do with a shitty congress. Nobody could have gotten revenues into this bill.
If only he had FDR's 1935 (74th) Congress:

Senate--
....Dems: 73
....Reps: 21

House--
....Dems: 322
....Reps: 103

But no. Compare FDR's to Obama's 2011 (112th) Congress:

Senate--
....Dems: 51
....Reps: 47

House--
....Dems: 193
....Reps: 243

:patriot:
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earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. We are powerless. n/t
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. 14th ammendment
Edited on Tue Aug-02-11 08:42 AM by Shagbark Hickory
At least we could have avoided the cuts.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. No, it's just the best he can do...
Edited on Tue Aug-02-11 08:43 AM by Javaman
he let the repukes dictate everything on a something that has never been an issue before.

this vote wasn't about cuts or revenue, it was all about the repukes showing they can push Obama around and him not having the will to stand up to them.

they now control him. period.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 08:51 AM
Original message
Please explain your plan to get this Republican House to vote for revenue increases.
I remember many DU'ers warning of this kind of thing before the 2010 election if the Republicans got control of the House.

I remember many other DU'ers eagerly trumpeting the "enthusiasm gap", refusing to GOTV, and being insulted when Biden said vote Democratic, this election is a really big deal.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
13. I will just say this...
many times over the past year Obama has had the repukes in a tight spot regarding various issues, but rather than use the advantage, he still chooses the insane tactic of compromise". Many a time he was in a power position and he allowed it to slip through his fingers due to the unfounded belief that he believed that they would meet him half way.

each and every time he failed to stand up to them, under the concept of compromise he failed.

never once has he taken it to the American public.

And if you consider him doing that this time around that is false premise. the raising of the debt ceiling was never an issue before and because of his constant need to compromise with the repukes, he painted himself into a corner. He needed the American people for a vote that is fairly routine?

That is sad.

This is how far we have fallen, this is how weak he is as a president, this is how bad he is at compromise.

bonerboy said it himself, "we got 98% of what we wanted", on a vote that should have otherwise been a none issue and should never ever had included any deal of cuts or anything else for that matter.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. DU DOUBLE POST. delete.
Edited on Tue Aug-02-11 08:51 AM by emulatorloo
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. There was no need for a deal at all.
The first error was buying into the Republican frame that a deal was necessary.

Congress passed two contradictory laws: The budget and the debt limit.

Honoring the budget is illegal, because of the debt limit.
Honoring the debt limit is illegal, because of the budget.

In past situations where Congress managed to pass contradictory laws, the executive branch picked one to enforce until Congress resolved the conflict. So Obama could have ignored the debt limit until Congress raised it or passed a smaller budget.

If have to break the law no matter what you do, you might as well do it in a way most favorable to you.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. +1000 nt
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. Meanwhile

During all the political kabuki stagecraft, what was really going on behind the scenes? Why such a big distraction?

Is the economy taking another downturn?
Are those financial weapons of mass destruction getting ready to detonate?
What's the latest with the PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain)?

etc., etc., etc.,

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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Yes, yes, and they're getting worse. (nt)
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Not everything is a distraction from something else
Edited on Tue Aug-02-11 09:01 AM by Javaman
Notice how we didn't know the details of the deal until it was basically passed.

We all fell for the old trick of, "get them outraged over something they have no details about".

Then they set it up so we are supposed to feel "relieved" when it does pass.

Only problem is, that tactic failed miserably.

They fail to understand something very simple in times like this, people read and pay attention to the details.

Their usual slight of hand doesn't work anymore.

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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Some people have caught on to the slight of hand maneuvers

But many people in my circle of family and friends, are totally clueless. They truly believe our elected politicians always legislate for the good of the people. So they do not worry or get upset, until something directly affects them. Besides, they have other priorities, like taking exotic vacations, buying new clothes, cars, houses, and the latest techie gadgets via credit cards.

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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I have stated in the past...
once the economy gets so bad that it prevents the average slob from driving the 200 feet to the 7/11 to get a slurpie, then things will change.

Until then, people will put up with a lot.
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robdogbucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
20. "...What's the latest with the PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain)?.."
Mainly because the current slaughters in Syria, Yeman and Libya are dominating news from that region. And the holy month of Ramadan has just begun. I'm sure the news is there, and I will find it, just for shits and giggles though:




A rude Arab awakening

What will happen to the uprisings in Libya, Yemen, and Syria as the ruling governments continue repressive policies?


"How do you explain the fact that since the upheavals erupted several months ago, the Libyan, Yemeni and Syrian regimes have continued their repression unabatedly - while in Egypt and Tunisia the regimes fell quickly?

The transformations in Egypt and Tunisia raised expectations of swift change elsewhere, but when the Arab Spring turned into a hot summer, it led to disappointment and doubt.

In reality, the early Arab Spring was exceptional by all standards when it led to the ousting of a combined 54 years of dictatorship in Tunisia and Egypt within the course of a few weeks.

While the military sided against the dictators in Egypt and Tunisia, the situation in Libya, Yemen and Syria is complicated by the fact that their regimes' militia, special forces and republican guards have been better organised, better armed and better financed -and hence more potent and in control of their national armies..."

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/08/201181131751785145.html





Nonetheless there is this news:



Markets rise on eurozone's Greece aid deal

World stock markets rise after European agreement on second Greek bailout, to help the country avert financial meltdown.
Last Modified: 22 Jul 2011 10:14

Video Report: Al Jazeera's Jonah Hull, reporting from Brussels, discusses the details of the second bailout package for Greece


"British, French and German stock markets gain signficantly in early trading on Friday, while Japan's Nikkei closes up 1.2 per cent.

The gains came after eurozone leaders agreed at a crucial summit on Thursday to find a way out for Greece to manage its debt crisis.

Together with the International Monetary Fund, eurozone countries agreed to give Greece a second bailout worth 109bn euros ($156bn).

Banks and other private investors will also contribute about 37bn euros ($53bn) to the rescue package. The new bailout will supplement the $146bn rescue plan for Greece launched in May last year..."


http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/07/201172291420198758.html





Portugal debt downgraded to junk status

Moody's credit agency warns Portugal may need a second round of rescue funds as it slashes credit rating by four levels.

Last Modified: 05 Jul 2011 23:29

"Portugal's credit standing has been cut to junk by Moody's Investors Service in the first such move by a credit ratings agency.

Moody's also warned on Tuesday that the country may well need a second round of rescue funds before it can return to capital markets.

The agency slashed Portugal's credit rating by four levels, to Ba2, causing the debt-laden Iberian country to follow Greece into junk territory below investment grade. Greece is rated much lower, at Caa1.

Portugal in April became the third eurozone country to request a bailout, after Greece and Ireland..."

http://english.aljazeera.net/business/2011/07/20117522564603444.html




U.S. taxpayers finance approximately 20% of the IMF's budget.

"Guess what, Ireland. Brian Lenihan and Brian Cowen just sold you down the IMF river. Why? To bail out bank bondholders and giant European banks. Of course! That's what governments are for these days, apparently. And they'll tell you that the bailout policy is all for you own good. And for little old ladies and pensioners and orphans. Just don't tell that to the cancer patients.

Yep, another nation made IMF debt slaves on behalf of the international banking cartels. And Goldman Sachs and Rothschild & Compagnie are on the list.

Check it out below -- Guido Fawkes' blog has acquired the list of Anglo-Irish Bank's bondholders..."

http://dailybail.com/home/rothschild-bank-and-goldman-sachs-are-both-on-the-list-of-bo.html





Sean O'Grady: The rescue package was so warmly received because no one understood it

The UK's unfamiliar experiment with coalition government is delivering better results than the three great economic blocs
Monday, 25 July 2011

That the second rescue package for Greece – and actually new softer terms for Ireland and Portugal's bailouts too – was so warmly received in the markets may have something to do with the fact that no one understands it. I have yet to meet anyone, be it eurocrat, economist or analyst who has been able to give me a comprehensive reconciliation of the numbers produced by the European Council after its emergency summit. Let alone those journalists who have chosen to specialise in economics, and whose paid job it is to translate the esoteric to the colloquial. "No idea, guv" sums up the journalistic consensus. It was probably the most opaque set of financial figures I have ever come across, not excluding PFI.


I think we understand that the "official funding" amounts to €109bn, though how much will be met by the eurozone and how much by the IMF remains unclear. What we have much less of a handle on is what proportion of the rescue fund will effectively be chipped in by the private banks, as organised by a group called the International Institute of Finance, the international "trade union" for the bankers, which, to its credit, has produced plenty of thoughtful and useful analysis throughout the financial crisis (though much of it obviously self-interested).

The numbers on that range from €12.6bn to €135bn over the next decade or so. You pays your money... The consensus seems to be that the banks will take a loss, or "haircut", of about 21 per cent of the face value of their Greek government bonds. Given what might have happened – total wipeout – they got off lightly. When in doubt it is always a good idea to take a quick look at the banks' share prices, and indeed so it came to pass; they started to bounce before the final conclusions of the EU summit were published, as they seeped out of the conference chamber in Brussels.

Weeks before, I had advised anyone who cared to listen to buy Greek government bonds because, contrary to the supposedly inevitable default, that would never be allowed to happen. I was, on the discount I quoted earlier, 79 per cent right. If I knew how to buy Greek bonds, together with their rich yields, I would have done so. The risk of default was mispriced...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/sean-ogrady-the-rescue-package-was-so-warmly-received-because-no-one-understood-it-2320051.html




Vatican accuses Enda Kenny of attacking the Church to divert attention from euro crisis

Vatican officials have accused Enda Kenny, Ireland's prime minister, of diverting attention away from the Irish euro crisis by attacking the Roman Catholic Church over its covering up of sex abuse.


"Giuseppe Leanza, the Vatican's envoy to Ireland, was posted to Prague on Friday, just days after he was recalled to Rome amid a row between the Vatican and Irish government over the sexual abuse of children by priests.


A report into the Irish diocese of Cloyne earlier this month criticised how the church handled hundreds of cases of sexual abuse of children by priests going back over decades.


The findings shocked Ireland, a deeply Catholic country, and prompted Mr Kenny to launch an unprecedented attack on "dysfunction, disconnection, elitism and narcissism" at the Vatican.


The Irish leader's speech and the scale of the backlash against the Church has alarmed the Vatican as coming from a country where official and popular defiance of Rome was once unthinkable at a time when Catholic influence is slipping across Europe..."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8671645/Vatican-accuses-Enda-Kenny-of-attacking-the-Church-to-divert-attention-from-euro-crisis.html








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robdogbucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. Ooops, sorry, dupe n/t
Edited on Tue Aug-02-11 10:52 AM by robdogbucky
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comtec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. b-b-but obama is perfect and wonderful!!! ha can do no wrong
he couldn't get a better deal than this!!!!!!!!
actually that one is true,

If you deal with a man you know will A L W A Y S fold, then you can push that man farther than you would ever expect a normal person.

this deal was expected.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. +1. nt
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Modern_Matthew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
9. I'd rather default than give in to this extortion. We could suffer now, rather than later. nt
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. with this deal, we are still going to suffer, just more slowly.
if we let the default happen the suffering would have been concentrated.

but like I have been saying for a long time now, we are dying via a death by a thousand cuts.

to me, this deal was a but slash across the chest, but we are still alive, right?
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bobdawg Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
11. Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton, Obama.
At least there are five Democrats on the list.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. And your point is?
Edited on Tue Aug-02-11 09:23 AM by Javaman
trickle down started under ray-gun and has been the mantra for the repukes and for a good part of the dems since.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Deleted message
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