Debt Deal Would End Subsidized Loans To Grad Students

[phusion]

http://thinkprogress.org/education/2011/08/01/284804/subsidized-loans-afghanistan/

Congress is currently preparing to vote on a debt ceiling deal struck between President Obama and congressional Republicans, with many observers expecting the vote to be close.

One aspect of the debt ceiling deal that has been under-reported is the way it would change the federal student aid program. While it admirably boosts Pell Grant appropriations in order to maintain the maximum grant, keeping the program strong for American students, it severely cuts another important federal aid program.

[OhioChick]

1. Shameful n/t

[KittyWampus]

24. What's shameful is the thread title is a blatant lie. It does NOT end subsidized student loans.

[OhioChick]

27. "Debt Deal Would End Subsidized Loans To Grad Students"

Is that not correct?

If so, can you provide a link?

[KittyWampus]

28. All you have to do is read the link. It cuts interest payments on some loans and continues

the low income loans as is. It does NOT cut the loans themselves.

[readmoreoften]

34. That is what a subsidized loan is. Hello....

[OhioChick]

36. Thank you....Apparently, some don't realize this n/t

[readmoreoften]

41. They're NOT getting rid of all chocolate bars. They're just getting rid of the chocolate part.

Exactly. The OP doesn't say they're getting rid of all loans. It says they're getting rid of subsidized loans. :crazy:

[Aerows]

43. Uh.. that's what a subsidized loan is

Thread title is absolutely correct.

Good god.

[ChromeFoundry]

50. Face + Palm n/t

[TBF]

54. And no one said it did - they said it cut the "subsidized" loans.

And we know what that means so knock it off.

[QC]

2. This all just gets more hopeful by the minute, doesn't it?

Could someone explain to me how it is a good thing to make earning advanced degrees far more expensive than it already is--which is mighty damn expensive?

How does this represent any sort of progress?

[OhioChick]

53. It's not progress....

We're going backward, but I think you already knew that.

[Ruby the Liberal]

3. It also ends the reduced interest rate for those who pay early.

Yet Big Oil and Billionaires have no "share" in the "sacrifice"

:grr:

[Tatiana]

4. So much for the "Education" President.

Not only is K-12 public education being decimated and destroyed in favor of disproven (and oftentimes substandard) charters, but now we are telling those in higher ed to mortgage their futures too.

Leaving lots of children behind...

[bluestateguy]

5. I oppose the bill, but not because of that

Many grad students get fellowships, and work as TA's and instructors to earn money.

I'm glad Pell Grants were preserved. That's what we should be promoting, not more student loan debt that in the long run is a drag on the economy.

This bill is bad for reasons other than this.

[phusion]

7. Most grad students don't qualify for Pell grants

and not all (myself included) get those sweet TA/GA deals that float around. My department (at a large state school) of ~20 new grad students only has funding for 2 or 3 TA positions. I agree with you about racking up debt, but the subsidized loan program sure helps when it comes to paying them back...

[QC]

11. Most people have to take on loans, too, because assistantships/fellowships pay little.

In 2004, for example, when I was working on my Ph.D., I was getting about a grand a month and no benefits to teach two sections of English.

Grad students do not get Pell Grants.

This will be a disaster for students of modest means who hope to earn advanced degrees, but the needs of the bottom 90% don't seem to figure into decisions anymore, so there's really nothing surprising about this. Just as long as the rich kids can continue to get their education, nothing else matters much.

[JVS]

45. Grad students need unions.

People might laugh at the idea, but when grad students strike there is no way that the university (especially when located out away from a big city) is going to be able to find several hundred people all willing and able to teach the various courses TAs handle for wages as modest as TAs get.

[QC]

47. We made some preliminary moves in that direction, but the chancellor made it clear

he would put every one of us on the road and convert our classes into megasections.

This was in a right to work (for nothing) state, so he could have done that.

This is when most of us backed down, though some, like yours truly, felt that things would not have gotten much worse if he had fired us, since we were already living in grinding poverty.

I agree with you about the value of grad student unions, but there are few places where they have much chance of success. Even purportedly liberal universities generally turn into Mr. Burns when their grad students get uppity.

[readmoreoften]

58. NYU accepted a $10 million punishment from city council so it could keep crushing our union.

Strikes are increasingly hard with lots of brutality from above.

[QC]

60. We even found the faculty surprisingly unsympathetic, even the old hippies

who loved to tell us about their glory days of boycotting grapes and whatever.

They were very concerned about exploited labor--except for the laborers whose exploitation made their 2/1 teaching loads possible.

[readmoreoften]

63. Absolutely. We had a prof who specialized in May of 68 union bust us.

Out of over I think it was close to 1000 profs, only 3 walked the picket line and supported us. About 250 tried to take a "neutral" position (but were broken of that as well.)

[readmoreoften]

56. As someone who lost all her income, insurance, and housing in a grad worker strike...

Don't bet on it. Union busting college administrations are brutal: They threaten careers. They cut health insurance. They twist faculty to put pressure on students. They put pressure on faculty to pit them against students. They threaten foreign students with deportation. They'll even bug computers and track university emails. It's easier at public colleges. It's a hard, vicious slog at private universities.

[Lost-in-FL]

15. I only qualify for student loans.

No study work programs, no teaching gigs or any other form of benefits. I used up my GI Bill for undergrad and can no longer count on my job for education assistance (they are no longer offering education benefits especially for Grad School). So my next step will be credit cards or outside student loans.

I hope things get better before I am forced to use my credit cards to finish school.

[benlurkin]

17. Do you know about the Post 9/11 bill?

That's what I am finishing my degree with. I am a family member who was able to use a transferred Post 9/11 GI Bill.

[Lost-in-FL]

19. Never heard of that. Might have to take a look. Thanks! nt

[readmoreoften]

16. Mostly Ph.D. students get TA ships. No one in an M.P.A. or M.S.W. or law school gets them.

No one in an MFA gets them, or only rarely. I have TAs who are MA students, but that is unusual and they don't get tuition remission. I agree that we don't need more debt--we need grants! But this is going to do nothing but force students to take out private loans at exorbitant rates.

[kelly1mm]

29. There are ways to make money while in law school, especially if you go part time.

I had an internship between year 2 and 3 that paid 40k for the summer for a DC firm. Then in year 3 and 4 (part time was 4 years) I worked full time as a law clerk for a state circuit court judge and that paid 44k per year. No law school debt because of that. Funny thing is that I have not made as much practicing law as I did while in law school. But I found I really don't like practicing anyway so I just run a low income family law clinic one day a week. Much more fun to work on cars!

[readmoreoften]

33. Good for you. Not everyone is in the same situation and things are getting much more competitive.

The situation isn't even what it was 5 years ago and we're recommending that our working class students think twice before applying to law school.

[kelly1mm]

38. I agree - I went to law school from 2000-2004 so PILES of $ were flying around.

That is how I got the law clerk gig - nobody else applied for it and the judges called me (I live in a rural area and had spoken to the judges before so they knew I was a local). Now, my judge had over 100 applicants including many lawyers out of work, not just new law grads, for this year. Lots of lawyers around here going out of business. It is bad. I should have mentioned that. I WAS EXTREMELY LUCKY!

[readmoreoften]

39. It's getting pretty bad. Glad you were lucky.

[AngryAmish]

37. I was a law school graduate assisant

I now a few friends who were ta's. Not unknown.

I had to write part of a book, teach a few classes, play golf and get drunk with my professor. It was fun. Of the time commitment 1) golf 2) getting drunk 3) and 4) were about tied, but I knocked out the book in a few weekends.

Third year of law school is kinda useless, you get a lot of free time.

[readmoreoften]

40. It's not that it *can't* happen, it's that it isn't standard procedure for all law students like it

is with Ph.D.s. Glad your job was easy, too, but most TAs work their asses off and drinking with me is not enough to make up for it. ;)

[JVS]

42. Technically those are not grad school, they're professional schools.

Universities view professional school students as a revenue source, while grad students are a cost. But they fulfill two important functions: they provide cheap labor for teaching low-level courses to undergrads, and also they are necessary perks to draw top level researchers who want to ensure that they have academic progeny.

[readmoreoften]

59. In most universities professional students are hired and fired as graduate workers like all others.

All the professional programs I've worked with hire students through the graduate school. But technically, you are indeed correct.

[JVS]

64. I was under the impression that while TAing and RAing were the norm for grad school...

that such arrangements are the exception for professional school.

[QC]

66. It depends on the field. In departments that teach a lot of "service courses,"

a nice name for the freshman and sophomore classes that everyone has to take, like Freshman Comp and Western Civ, there are usually lots of assistantships and instructorships available.

However, in other departments there might be few or no such opportunities.

[readmoreoften]

69. It is the exception, but they do get hired, just not en masse.

[gkhouston]

70. +1. When I was in grad school, the Ph.D. students had a tuition waiver

and a stipend. In return, we had duties as teaching and/or research assistants. A thesis master's was an incidental degree you got handed on the way to a Ph.D.

Students working on a professional master's degree (not a thesis degree, usually required 1.5-2 years of nothing but coursework), paid in full.

[Fire1]

6. Oh well, at least my son will get to finish law sachool. I guess

my doctorate will have to wait.

[ChromeFoundry]

8. Once again, Thanks Obama for 'caving'...

42 Broken Promises:
Increase the capital gains and dividends taxes for higher-income taxpayers.
Expand the child and dependent care credit.
Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners.
End income tax for seniors making less than $50,000.
End no-bid contracts above $25,000.
Repeal the Bush tax cuts for higher incomes.
Phase out exemptions and deductions for higher earners.
Sign the Employee Free Choice Act, making it easier for workers to unionize.
Forbid companies in bankruptcy from giving executives bonuses.
Allow workers to claim more in unpaid wages and benefits in bankruptcy court.
Allow imported prescription drugs.
Appoint federal-level coordinator to oversee all federal autism efforts.
Direct the Secretary of Health and Human Services to conduct a comprehensive study of federal cancer initiatives.
Create a National Commission on People with Disabilities, Employment, and Social Security.
Change federal rules so small businesses owned by people with disabilities can get preferential treatment for federal contracts.
Form international group to help Iraq refugees.
Close the Guantanamo Bay Detention Center.
Reinstate special envoy for the Americas.
Double the Peace Corps.
Centralize ethics and lobbying information for voters.
Allow five days of public comment before signing bills.
Tougher rules against revolving door for lobbyists and former officials.
Double funding for afterschool programs.
Urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality in their family and adoption laws.
Allow bankruptcy judges to modify terms of a home mortgage.
Restore Superfund program so that polluters pay for clean-ups.
Re-establish the National Aeronautics and Space Council.
Support human mission to moon by 2020.
Pay for the national service plan without increasing the deficit.
Limit term of director of national intelligence.
Give annual "State of the World" address.
Reduce earmarks to 1994 levels.
Enact windfall profits tax for oil companies.
Create cap and trade system with interim goals to reduce global warming.
Require plug-in fleet at the White House.
Provide an annual report on "state of our energy future".
Allow penalty-free hardship withdrawals from retirement accounts in 2008 and 2009.
Recognize the Armenian genocide.
No family making less than $250,000 will see "any form of tax increase."
Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN.
Create a public option health plan for a new National Health Insurance Exchange.
Introduce a comprehensive immigration bill in the first year.

41 Promise Compromises:
Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses and start-ups.
Expand the earned income tax credit.
Establish a small business initiative for rural America.
Create a tax credit of $500 for workers.
Create more public-private business incubators for poor communities.
Freeze the 2009 estate tax law.
Create a National Health Insurance Exchange.
Create a small business tax credit to help with health premiums.
Strengthen antitrust laws to prevent overcharging for malpractice insurance.
Reimburse employer health plans for a portion of catastrophic costs.
Invest $10 billion per year in early intervention educational and developmental programs.
Allow all veterans back into the Veterans Administration.
Ensure the Guard and Reserves can meet their homeland security missions.
Seek code of conduct for space-faring nations.
Revise the Patriot Act to increase oversight on government surveillance.
Convene a summit on preventing nuclear terrorism.
Create a national cyber adviser to coordinate security of electronic infrastructure.
Significantly increase funding for the National Endowment for Democracy (NED).
Require more disclosure and a waiting period for earmarks.
Create the American Opportunity Tax Credit to offset college costs.
Spend $25 million a year on programs to raise awareness of college financial aid.
Protect forest service lands from more roads.
Provide more funds to educate young hunters and anglers.
Crack down on employers who hire undocumented immigrants.
Eliminate disparity in sentencing for crack and cocaine.
Repeal law that limits the sharing of gun-tracing data.
Restore housing in New Orleans.
Appoint experienced disaster official to head FEMA.
Encourage more public service by college students.
Set a three-month moratorium on foreclosures.
Extend Production Tax Credit to encourage renewable energy.
Require drilling on current oil and gas leases.
Weatherize 1 million homes per year.
Use revenue from cap and trade to support clean energy and environmental restoration.
Seek more funding for transportation security.
Phase out incandescent light bulbs.
Give Al Gore a key role on global warming.
Create clean technology venture capital fund.
Create a $3,000 tax credit for companies that add jobs.
Go "line by line" over earmarks to make sure money being spent wisely.
No signing statements to nullify instructions from Congress.

69 Promises placed on the shelf:
Eliminate all oil and gas tax loopholes.
Require publicly traded financial partnerships to pay the corporate income tax.
Close loopholes in the corporate tax deductibility of CEO pay.
Provide option for a pre-filled-out tax form
Create a mortgage interest tax credit for non-itemizers.
Enforce pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budget rules.
Lift the payroll tax cap on earnings above $250,000.
Require health care providers to report preventable medical errors.
Modernize public health buildings.
Provide $50 billion by 2013 for the global fight against HIV/AIDS.
Provide the CDC $50 million in new funding to determine the most effective approaches for cancer patient care.
Sign the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.
Amend the Medicare "homebound" rule to allow some travel without loss of benefits.
Dedicate more resources to fight employment discrimination against military reservists.
Issue a "best practices" report for states on reducing domestic violence.
Provide at least $2 billion for services to Iraqi refugees.
Create a specialized military advisers corps.
Restore 24-month limit on cumulative Guard and Reserve deployment time.
Make National Guard leader a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Establish transparency standards for military contractors.
Clarify legal status for defense contractor personnel.
Launch a new 'America's Voice Corps'.
Develop an alternative to President Bush's Military Commissions Act on handling detainees.
Restrict warrantless wiretaps.
Restore habeas corpus rights for "enemy combatants".
Strengthen the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and double its budget in the next four years.
Secure ratification of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT).
Create loan sanctions to stop private creditors from lending to repressive regimes.
With the G-8, launch Health Infrastructure 2020.
Strengthen the State Department's ability to respond to conflict.
Direct attorney general and homeland security secretary to meet with Latin American leaders to develop a hemispheric crime strategy.
Seek independent watchdog agency to investigate congressional ethics violations.
Expose Special Interest Tax Breaks to Public Scrutiny.
Make White House communications public.
Support college credit initiatives.
Create scholarships to recruit new teachers.
Require all schools of education to be accredited.
Create a voluntary national performance assessment for educators.
Restore the Great Lakes.
Help students and their families become aware of college readiness.
Fund proposals to help fish and game survive climate change.
Expand the Employment Non-Discrimination Act to include sexual orientation and gender identity.
Eliminate caps on damages for discrimination cases.
Enhance drug courts.
Ban racial profiling by federal law enforcement agencies.
Encourage videotaping of interrogations in capital cases.
Create a prison-to-work incentive program.
Push for a college football playoff system.
Increase the minimum wage to $9.50 an hour.
Sign the Responsible Fatherhood and Healthy Families Act.
Provide incentives to draw employers into areas hardest-hit by Katrina.
Create a national catastrophe insurance reserve.
Establish a Global Energy Corps to promote green energy in developing countries.
Limit subsidies for agribusiness.
Give tax incentives to new farmers.
Strengthen the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
Stop al Qaida prison recruitment.
Call for a consultative group of congressional leaders on national security.
Create a Presidential Early Learning Council.
Launch a Children's First Agenda.
Work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers.
Educate business about the benefits of flexible work schedules and telecommuting.
Require 25 percent renewable energy by 2025.
Work with UN on climate change.
Double federal program to help "reverse" commuters who go from city to suburbs.
Sign the Freedom of Choice Act.
Give the White House's Privacy and Civil Liberties Board subpoena power.
Reproductive health care will be "at the heart" of health care reform.
Cut the cost of a typical family's health insurance premium by up to $2,500 a year.

This is what CHANGE looks like. :wtf:

[Luciferous]

9. +1

[readmoreoften]

14. Please make this an OP! +1

[ChromeFoundry]

18. Would, but can't...

Lately, that would be asking to get TS'd around here.
If you haven't noticed, the herd is getting thinned from the left to the right.
I cannot stomach to bring out my pom-poms over these BS deals from this party (like others are on here).

If you like, feel free to cut-and-past it on your own OP...
here is the source of the data: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

[KittyWampus]

26. LOL! You are posting a bullshit list. Just today, Obama made Reproductive Health Care mandatory

for Insurers.

That's just for starters.

[readmoreoften]

32. "That's just for starters?" What, he's just starting out after 2 1/2 years in office?

This is great that he did this one small, tiny $5-10 a month saving for young, childbearing women. That doesn't make up for cutting medicare, putting SS on the table, and allowing a "super congress" to pass cuts above the congress. It is true, every now and then he pets our heads as he keeps our arms behind our backs so the right can punch us to death.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

44. Actually, he did more than that.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/birth-control-now-covered-goodbye-co-pays-hello-preventive-care/2011/08/01/gIQAD7AUnI_blog.html

This news is a historic development in the debate over women’s health care. The new guidelines take effect today, just over a month after a committee of the National Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Medicine recommended that prescription birth control, breast-pump rentals, counseling for domestic violence and annual wellness exams and HIV tests be covered by virtually all insurance plans.

Plans beginning on or after August 1, 2012 will cover birth control and other preventative services, including voluntary sterilization, and the new requirements will take effect Jan. 1, 2013, in most cases.

[ChromeFoundry]

46. How does...

today's tidbit -

Meet the promise:
"Reproductive health care will be 'at the heart' of health care reform"?

FYI, This list was compiled last night, after he caved to the right-wing demands.

One drop of clean water in a lake of piss - still yields a lake of piss.
Take your pompoms and give a healthy death rattle for the middle-class!

[OhioChick]

72. +1000 n/t

[Lost-in-FL]

10. Seriously?

How am I suppose to finish Grad School then? Can't contain my enthusiasm. :argh: :grr: :nuke:

[KittyWampus]

30. With your loan. The thread title is an outright lie.

[readmoreoften]

35. You're embarrassing yourself because you don't know what a subsidized loan is.

[QC]

75. Didn't it used to be against the rules here to call people liars?

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember something like that.

[librechik]

12. Because we don't need to compete with other countries for anything

especially education. We're exceptional! Cut everything down to the bone and stop being the American Dream. That's what the PuKKKes want. At least it might keep minorities away. Why would they want to be here anyway?

[TheKentuckian]

22. The upperclasses and the wealthy's spawn need less competition.

If a few manage to break through they will be in hock up to their eyeballs and will take longer so those who picked their parents more wisely will keep a strong upper hand.

Back door caste system.

[StarsInHerHair]

68. no-they're cutting ALL the muscle & bone & leaving just the fat in place

[readmoreoften]

13. That's a huge deal. That means people in school now may have to drop out or be screwed.

Really screwed.

You can get $15K in subsidized loans and $15K in unsubsidized loans now towards tuition. Accruing interest on another 15K a year for 2-10 years (length of programs vary greatly) and then for the year before repay is significant. If they're going to CUT that loan in its entirety, people currently enrolled will be pushed to usurious private loans (which are often adjustable rate) or dropping out. People can't afford to pay back loans ALREADY because they're unemployed or underpaid. How on earth is this supposed to end well for the economy?

[SusanaMontana41]

20. No excuse for this. None. n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

21. Advanced degree ends wage disparity for women and minorities. Therefore the right wing

does not want to see poor folks---especially women and minorities---getting any advanced degrees. Because how can you say that Blacks are lazy and women are intellectually inferior, if women and Blacks are taking out your mother's gallstones and defending your brother in court?

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[readmoreoften]

25. What the hell do you think an UNSUBSIDIZED LOAN is? The OP is correct.

It's a loan that the government pays the interest on while your in school. Nixing the interest subsidy means its not longer a SUBSIDIZED LOAN.

[Aerows]

48. Isn't amazing

that some folks will argue something and have NO FUCKING IDEA what they are arguing just to defend a policy they have NO FUCKING IDEA the impact it will have on people other than themselves?

My god. It's like dealing with 2 year olds in the "NO" stage.

[OhioChick]

49. Yes, it certainly is amazing n/t

[QC]

51. You know, it used to be against the rules here to call people liars.

Seems to be OK now, though.

[Aerows]

52. Calling people liars

is completely different than saying "You are misinformed and here is why".

If this place supports misinforming others for merely the sake of getting along, I have no reason to be here. If you, personally, support misinforming others for the sake of getting along ... you and I probably aren't going to get along.

EDIT: Sorry - I see what you were referring to, and yes, it is offensive to see the truth called a lie by someone too ill-informed to know it when they see it. You and I will get along just find, my friend :) Knee jerk reaction from way too many people doing the cheering squad for bullshit, my apologies.

[QC]

55. We're on the same page.

I hate the way casual personal attacks are tolerated here.

[Aerows]

62. Agreed

They only seem to be tolerated, however, when it's people toeing the party line. I am very much principle over party and personality. We have a personality problem here, too, and some support personality over principle AND party.

I swear some days this place seems like Obama Underground, not Democratic Underground, and it's getting on my nerves.

[QC]

67. Yes, that line about some animals being more equal than others

often comes to mind when I am here.

[marmar]

31. Racing to the bottom at Usain Bolt-speed

nt

[Zanzoobar]

57. Good! Damned hippies need to get jobs.

:)

[WildEyedLiberal]

61. Well, THANK GOD they're not raising taxes on the rich

I just finished my first year of law school and I'm already drowning in student loan debt. Now I have to pay interest on the 8k per year of loans that were subsidized before?

I have never, in my short life, been more disgusted with the GOP or American politics in general. And I've been pretty disgusted.

[tammywammy]

65. Yeah, but the payments can be deferred.

I have both subsidized and unsubsidized loans, the unsubsidized just accrue interest while I'm in school. I could make payments on the interest now, but I'm deferring it all until after I graduate.

[Starry Messenger]

71. I was just telling my partner that I could never afford to go to college now.

I barely squeaked by as it is, finishing in '97. It's hard to look my students in the face when they ask me about their futures and careers in class.

[Bill McBlueState]

73. yep, the grad students in my building just found out

They're a pretty docile bunch, but this might put them over the edge. At least one of them is talking about leaving school.

[QC]

74. This could easily double or triple their loan debt,

given the effect of "the miracle of compound interest."

I had a $20k undergrad loan turn into more than $80k in the time I was in grad school.

They have every right to be upset.

And let's be honest--if George W. Bush had proposed this, DU would be going apeshit. The servers would melt down. But since it's our guy making advanced degrees prohibitively expensive for the bottom 90%, it's the pragmatic, sensible thing to do.