What's the next hostage?

[neverforget]

After this debt debacle is over, what is the next hostage? The Budget? Kill the EPA or the Budget gets it? Kill the Department of Education or no money for the unemployed?

If this fucking made up drama has taught us anything, it's that hostage taking works. Giving in to the T-Bags only encourages them and this will not end until they suffer a defeat or they are kicked out of Congress. Until then, prepare for more hostage taking because we don't stand up to them.

[MadHound]

1. Budget continuation, coming up in about a month.

This governing by crises is getting old, no?

[neverforget]

2. It sure does but this is how Disaster Capitalism works

[woo me with science]

4. +1

[LonePirate]

3. If the situation was reversed, the Republicans would kill the hostages held by the Dems.

The only way to defeat these terrorists, extortionists and bullies is to stand up them.

[Name removed]

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[Chan790]

10. I think we're almost there.

If this fight were smaller, I think we'd have considered that tactic this time.

[Capitalocracy]

11. We'd have to find a hostage they actually don't want dead

Destroy the basic functioning of government? Hell, that's their stated goal, not just a hostage they can leverage.

But if we were able to, say, completely stop production and R&D for weapons of war unless they voted a certain way, I think that's a hostage they'd be a little less willing to sacrifice.

[Jim Lane]

18. Complete withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan. Furlough Border Patrol agents.

Stop inducting new members of the armed services, so that all the services begin shrinking through attrition. Sign no new contracts for new weapons systems, and terminate current contracts.

In hindsight, Obama should have announced that all this would happen by August 3. When we first ran out of money, back in May, he should have begun to implement these steps, on a pre-announced schedule.

This would amount to killing one hostage every week until the Republicans passed a clean bill.

I say "in hindsight" because I have to admit that I didn't realize the extent of the Republicans' irresponsibility. I can't claim that I would have done this if I were President, so I can't fault Obama too harshly.

[Capitalocracy]

19. Well, it was reported that Wall Street wanted the debt ceiling raised

so we all thought that meant it was marching orders for the Republicans... may still be, they may just be holding it until the last minute

[treestar]

22. True, that is the advantage they have. It's built into what they want.

As to the R&D and military spending, is that legislated? What can a President hold hostage against a Congress? A President can't refuse to enforce the laws, though maybe use prosecutorial discretion, but is there anything in that which the Rs want so badly they will give in over something else? And then they can't hold any President to any deal with that.

Right now the House cannot get anything it wants, since the President can veto it (and it would not pass the Senate). So all they can hold hostage is affirmative things we need out of them, like raising the debt ceiling.

[Name removed]

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[Autumn]

7. We are all hostages

Every fucking one of us, one way or the other.

[Poll_Blind]

8. It's all part of the same event, the ransom will just keep going up and up and up.

PB

[Chan790]

9. I dunno, but...

I think they lost all the ammo on this one.

Given a month until the next budget fight they have to realize the possibility that the Dems will shoot the hostage and go all Mencken "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." letting them take the blame. Since we know that this will be a state of constant war from now through Nov. 2012, we have to face the option of letting misery rise and concentrating on tarring the GOP with it. It's only a bit over a year, it'll be rough and feel bad but it's increasingly an evil we may have to undertake as inevitable even in compromise.

They're not popular right about now, not even with their own base.

[woo me with science]

12. This is why they want a Super Congress.

They want to be able to craft this type of legislation within a friendly, carefully-chosen group of 12, without interference from traditional liberal colleagues who might still want to represent the people and who might try to amend what is happening or issue public alarms.

They hope to be able to fast-track and push through future cuts without the level of media circus and opposition this whole process caused, despite their attempts to do it all behind closed doors.

[Kablooie]

13. I'd even settle for a normal Congress.

This subaltern, anencephalic Congress is what I don't cotton to.

[tavalon]

14. The Terrorists have been emboldened now.

There will be a next time and a next time after that.

[neverforget]

15. The Republicans win another one. An epic cave by the Democrats

:argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:

[neverforget]

16. kick

[lunatica]

17. the teabaggers will move on to the next part of government to kill

They've already told us this is their agenda. Yet people think they will make deals. Why would they? It's the opposite of what they're there to do. And they won't stop until government is destroyed completely. Then they'll start on State governments.

[Seedersandleechers]

20. They are going to tax cats and dogs

who live free and comfortable. :sarcasm:

[Poll_Blind]

21. Unemployment extensions, coming this Christmas or thereabouts.

Even Dick Durban was talking about this on the Senate floor with Barabara Boxer. Both of them calling this crisis "manufactured".

PB

[neverforget]

23. It's manufactured but the fact is, the T-Bag Hostage taking works because

they get what they want for the most part. Until someone stands up to the them, they will continue to take hostages because it works.

[Poll_Blind]

24. Absolutely agreed. When the President is willing to go around Democratic Leadership to negotiate...

...deals with Republicans, it's very difficult to imagine that the Repukes will stop the practice.

PB

[gulliver]

25. 2012 will be the first time Americans get to vote on the tactic.

I don't think Americans like being held hostage, personally.

[Jim Lane]

26. Unfortunately, the vote won't be about that.

In fifteen months, everyone except the political junkies will have forgotten the details of the debt thing. They'll remember only what the media are telling them -- that the politicians in DC were going through the usual political gaming, and both parties are equally at fault.

With the failure to do an adequate stimulus, it was already set that the economy would be in poor shape for Obama's re-election. If, as seems inevitable, the debt ceiling "crisis" results in spending cuts that cause layoffs, then the economy will be even worse. Obama, as the incumbent President, will be blamed. As against that, people will remember the Republican attempt to dismantle Medicare, and they'll also see all the negatives of a Republican nominee who's had to kowtow to the wingnuts just to get that nomination.

I predict that the Republican will lose to Obama, but that both of them will finish well behind cynicism and disgust.

[MisterP]

27. as long as enough people scream, "think of SCOTUS appointments! do you WANT unemployment to lose

funding?!" the party's not going to do shit about it
why should a rightward canter--which by definition hurts people, no matter how "compromised"--going on since 1988 stop now?

[moondust]

28. Sit down with the legislative calendar

and look ahead for anything that MUST be done to prevent a national disaster but that requires a vote in Congress to do it. That's where hostages can LEGALLY be taken and taxpayers extorted.

Oh yes, don't forget that the Senate filibuster is always available to undermine majority rule.

[neverforget]

29. The cave is complete.