No deal.

[MadHound]

At this point in the big game, we need to simply pass on any deal. We are being offered a false choice in this matter, death through a thousands cuts via draconian cuts, or death quickly by slamming our head into the debt ceiling.

These are not deals, not for us, all of us. These are poison, for us, for our country.

The only possible ways we the people win is either a clean debt ceiling bill, or the use of the 14th Amendment option. Anything else is a loss.

I believe that either one of these solutions are attainable, in fact as time counts down, they become ever more probable. There are enough sane Congress folk in the capital, Republican and Democrat, to pass a clean debt ceiling bill over the entire minority of Teabaggers, and as the clock ticks down they will be under increasing pressure from their corporate constituency to stop the madness.

Failing that, Obama can pull the trigger on the 14th Amendment and send this all to the corporately controlled SC. Sure, it will provoke a Constitutional crisis, but better that than an economic one.

But the kicker on all this is that it's going to come down to the last minute, so hang in there. Keep up the pressure on our politicians, but also take some time for yourself, some time for even a brief escape. Blast some music, get up and dance, feed your soul. Too much obsession, especially on looming disasters, is never a good thing.

Have a good weekend, all the best to all of you, we're all in this together. Peace:hi:

[dkf]

1. Then our credit rating gets downgraded and we land up spending a lot more on interest

for both individuals and the government then we need to cut into spending as Interest crowds out discretionary spending.

[MadHound]

3. If we pass a clean debt ceiling bill?

How do you figure that?

[kelly1mm]

6. Because the credit rating agencies said they want to see a deal AND $4trillion

in cuts to avoid a downgrade.

[MadHound]

8. And if they pull that trigger, the full force of the entire US government will be up their ass

For playing policy games with the US by holding us hostage to their demands. The SEC, Justice, Treasury, and every other institution that can be mustered on the vaguest excuse will pile into S&P, Moody's and whomever else tried that trick.

[dkf]

10. So S&P and Moody's can never downgrade the US out of fear of retaliation?

Are you serious?

[MadHound]

12. The SEC can yank their government sanction as NRSRO's,

Nationally Recognized Statistical Rating Organizations. This will throw them back into the paying pool of all the other ratings agencies, and given their track record on the mortgage crisis, they will sink. Not to mention that Justice can bring down investigations into their practices and their attempt to dictate government policy.

Yeah, they can downgrade us, but if they do so because we didn't cut the debt by X trillion dollars, they can, and probably will reap the whirlwind.

[dkf]

15. This is coming out of S&Ps London branch btw.

They handle the sovereign debt ratings.

[MadHound]

17. I doubt that it would matter,

They have to be sanctioned here in the US.

[dkf]

18. You think the UK would be happy at that?

David Beers says he sees a “political divide” in the U.S. that won’t be any easier to bridge with time.

As the London-based managing director of sovereign credit ratings at Standard & Poor’s, Beers will help determine whether the U.S. government’s credit rating will be downgraded as a result of the battle over raising the debt limit.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-27/u-s-credit-rating-rests-on-s-p-s-london-view-of-washington.html

[MadHound]

19. Actually, considering how badly hit the entire global economy would be,

I think they would look the other way if we decided to pound the rating agencies for trying to dictate policy.

[dkf]

20. Then what is the use of a credit rating?

Isn't this what we accused them of earlier? Buying the ratings? Except this would be punishment for downgrades.

They already have incentive to keep the rating as is. If they downgrade and interest rates go up, there will likely be less corporate ratings which is how they make their money. Their conflict of interest is to keep the rating as is.

[kelly1mm]

11. So you want the rating agencies to be subject to politics rather than

just rate risk? Have you really thought that out?

[MadHound]

14. No, I'm saying that their government sanction can be yanked,

And yes, political pressure applied if they try to dictate policy to our government.

If their NRSRO's are yanked, then they S&P and Moody's drop back into the paying pool of ratings agencies, and given their absolutely horrible track record during the mortgage debacle, they will sink.

[ellaydubya]

2. Thank you!

For making it simple- short and sweet. AND it is and can be that short and sweet. Seriously.

[grahamhgreen]

4. I agree. In the end the Repubs will pass a clean bill for 2 reasons:

1) they are chickenhawk bullies
2) Their corporate masters will tell them to

[Tx4obama]

5. ********************* There is NO deal yet **************************

thinkprogress
RT @samyoungman: Dem familiar with situation disputes ABC report

http://twitter.com/thinkprogress/status/97502157829447680

[MadHound]

9. I know that already, but thanks.

I am hoping that it stays that way, for any deal we get is going to be a loss for all of us.

[neverforget]

7. This is just the warm up for the real sell-out. That one is going to be a

kick in the nads to America. The wealthy? They get off scott free because they control DC. Prosperity for them, Sacrifice for the rest of us. :grr:

[woo me with science]

21. You are absolutely right.

This is just the beginning. Why do people think they are slipping the "Super Congress" in?

This is just the beginning of a long-term gang rape of the middle class and poor.

[Waiting For Everyman]

13. K&R

Speaking of music, last night John Roberts on MSNBC played the chorus of this song as cut-to-commercial music right after interviewing a Bagger (I think it was King).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txlXcJDtDwM

Loved it! Cracked me up :rofl:

[MadHound]

16. LOL, yeah, that's appropriate. n/t

[woo me with science]

22. Thank you, MadHound.

K&R

[MadHound]

23. kick n/t